Re: Iranian policy (was: scorching hell...)

2005-02-21 Thread Gary Denton
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:21:49 -0700, Trent Shipley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sunday 2005-02-20 20:36, d.brin wrote:
...
 I am not certain that Iran is planning to test a nuclear device.  If I were
 Iranian, I would definitely want the option to get a bomb quick.  I would
 want fissionable material on hand with lots of bomb components.  I would even
 want prototypes ready to fuel, arm, and test.  Even if Iran had a liberal
 regime and good relations with Washington, any sane flag-rank Iranian officer
 would STILL insist that Washington provide nuclear guarantees AND would want
 to have the failsafe of weapons grade fissionable material stored in
 quantity.
 
 Pakistan has the bomb and could become insanely anti-Shia any day.
 
 The Russian sphere of control borders Iran.  Russia has the bomb.  Russia has
 previously occupied parts of Iran.
 
 The Arab Gulf States, especially Saudi Arabia, are irrationally anti-Shia.
 They are a military threat, though no match for Iran's conventional forces.
 Note, however, that Wahhabi zeal has sometimes resulted in the defeat of
 superior military forces. If relations with Washington were to change, Saudi
 Arabia or a consortium of Gulf States might be forced to develop a nuclear
 capability.
 
 Iraq is currently occupied by a hostile superpower's forces.  Though it looks
 like a friendly regime will soon come to power, powers corresponding to what
 is today called Iraq have often fought wars with Iran.
 
 Turkey is a close ally of a hostile superpower.  Turkey is not favorably
 disposed to Shias, minorities, or theocracies.  Over the centuries Iran and
 Turkey have fought wars.  At present, however, relations are stable.
 
 The United States, an economic and military superpower is actively hostile
 toward Iran.  Iran and the USA have effectively been in a coldwar since the
 1979 revolution.   Worse, the current administration is looking to further
 isolate Iran, ramping up coldwar style pressure, and has shown a real
 willingness to use full military options even when they strike external
 observers as both expensive and less than completely necessary.  Furthermore,
 the American administration invaded Iraq that had no credible nuclear
 deterrent and no ability to bombard a major allied city.  On the other hand,
 North Korea had both moderately credible access to atom bombs AND the ability
 to easily bombard Seoul with weapons of North Korea's choosing.
...

If you are a politician or military leader in Iran you would have to
be a pacifist to not rush development of nuclear weapons.  In addition
to all the nuclear armed threats you mention Israel has the bomb and
is a regime hostile to Iran which has shown a pattern of preemptive
military strikes.

-- 
Gary Denton
Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l


Iranian policy (was: scorching hell...)

2005-02-20 Thread Trent Shipley
On Sunday 2005-02-20 20:36, d.brin wrote:

 4/  So, how are our relations with Iran now that it is the dominant
 regional power, with a sympathetic Shiite government in a weak and
 chaotic neighboring Iraq, its former enemy?

 Iran, facing mounting U.S. pressure over its nuclear program,
 promised yesterday a scorching hell for any aggressor as tens of
 thousands marched to mark the 26th anniversary of its Islamic
 revolution.

 A month after President Bush warned that the United States hasn't
 ruled out military action against Iran, President Mohammed Khatami
 responded before a crowd gathered on a snowy square in Tehran. ...

 Will this nation allow the feet of an aggressor to touch this land?
 Khatami asked at the crowd. If, God forbid, it happens, Iran will
 turn into a scorching hell for the aggressors.

 His statements drew chants of Death to America! from the crowd.

 Khatami is widely recognized as a leader of a moderate faction in
 Iran. Indeed, Khatami himself indicated in his speech that the talk
 of a possible U.S. invasion was pushing him into a united camp with
 Iran's hard-liners against foreign meddling.
 http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002177190_iran11.html

 Remember Khatami?  He was our great hope among the liberal reformers
 in Iran.  Now he says he is being driven by the US into the arms of
 the hardliners.  Our invasion of Iraq has basically killed the reform
 movement in Iran, with hardliners dominating elections since then.

I do not believe that the USA's invasion of Iraq has killed Iran's reform 
movement.  

The opposition WANTED to contest hardliners in Iran's last national 
parliamentary elections, but were prevented from doing so because in Iran the 
judiciary is the foremost branch of government.  The constitution specifies 
that Islamic legal scholars constitute the judiciary.  Furthermore, per the 
Iranian constitution, judicial authorities must vet potential candidates for 
elected administrative or legislative office.  

American foreign policy had little or nothing to do with the so-called defeat 
of the opposition.  Opposition candidates were simply judged insufficiently 
orthodox and not allowed to run.  This was EXACTLY the intent of the 
constitution which sought to implement Khomeni's revolutionary theory of 
government by Islamic jurisprudents.  

Nevertheless, American warmongering has certainly put any Iranian reform 
movement into a holding pattern.  Reform is not dead, but it is torpid.  Who 
cares about reform when your nation's mortal enemy is at the gates?  Reform 
will remain torpid until Washington's cold war brinkmanship pulls back 
significantly.  

Furthermore, I have no doubt that if America's defense and foreign policy team 
decide to invade Iran, the Iranians (who unlike the Iraqis indisputably see 
themselves as a single nation, baring some small minorities like Kurds) will 
oppose invasion and occupation with a united front.  Iran could make Iraq 
look like a stroll in a suburban park.

I am not certain that Iran is planning to test a nuclear device.  If I were 
Iranian, I would definitely want the option to get a bomb quick.  I would 
want fissionable material on hand with lots of bomb components.  I would even 
want prototypes ready to fuel, arm, and test.  Even if Iran had a liberal 
regime and good relations with Washington, any sane flag-rank Iranian officer 
would STILL insist that Washington provide nuclear guarantees AND would want 
to have the failsafe of weapons grade fissionable material stored in 
quantity.

Pakistan has the bomb and could become insanely anti-Shia any day.

The Russian sphere of control borders Iran.  Russia has the bomb.  Russia has 
previously occupied parts of Iran.

The Arab Gulf States, especially Saudi Arabia, are irrationally anti-Shia.  
They are a military threat, though no match for Iran's conventional forces.  
Note, however, that Wahhabi zeal has sometimes resulted in the defeat of 
superior military forces. If relations with Washington were to change, Saudi 
Arabia or a consortium of Gulf States might be forced to develop a nuclear 
capability.

Iraq is currently occupied by a hostile superpower's forces.  Though it looks 
like a friendly regime will soon come to power, powers corresponding to what 
is today called Iraq have often fought wars with Iran.

Turkey is a close ally of a hostile superpower.  Turkey is not favorably 
disposed to Shias, minorities, or theocracies.  Over the centuries Iran and 
Turkey have fought wars.  At present, however, relations are stable.

The United States, an economic and military superpower is actively hostile 
toward Iran.  Iran and the USA have effectively been in a coldwar since the 
1979 revolution.   Worse, the current administration is looking to further 
isolate Iran, ramping up coldwar style pressure, and has shown a real 
willingness to use full military options even when they strike external 
observers as both expensive and less than