Project Orion

2003-07-16 Thread Robert J. Chassell
Project Orion
by George Dyson
2002, Henry Holt and Co
ISBN 0-8050-7284-5 (pbk)

Recently, George Dyson wrote a book on Project Orion, a project on
which his father, Freeman Dyson, worked in the late 1950s.  The
project designed a heavy spaceship that could carry people to other
planets in a reasonably time.  The spaceship would be driven by
exploding nuclear bombs behind it, one or two very second for 10 or 20
minutes.  (As I say below, it occurs to me that the Chinese might want
to fund such a project now.)

The key technical understanding was that a steel plate, covered by a
thin coating of oil, could survive a nearby nuclear explosion.  The
oil (which could be sprayed on) would ablate; the steel plate, while
accelerated violently, would survive.

The steel `pusher' plate would be coupled through two shock absorbing
systems to a multi-thousand ton human-carrying main body.  The human
passengers would survive because the shock absorbing systems would
convert the high acceleration, short pulses of the exploding bombs
into a gentler, longer, 2 to 6 gravity, bearable acceleration.  The
huge mass of the spaceship would provide shielding against the
radiation from the explosions, as well as against radiation from solar
flares and the like.  The bigger the spaceship, the smoother the ride
and the thicker the shielding.  Moreover, the bigger the spaceship,
the lower the incremental cost for bombs, since it is cheap to make
bombs bigger, once you have an initial hydrogen bomb.

According to calculations by Freeman Dyson, about 10 people over the
world would die from radiation poisoning from each launch.  He made
this calculation at a time when the same calculations told him that
about 1000 people died each year from the then on-going atmospheric
nuclear tests. (Dyson was very disturbed by the amount of radiation
released in each launch; he hoped that bomb designers could design
`cleaner' bombs.)

No Orion spaceships were built.  One reason is that the US Air Force,
who liked bombs, could not figure out a reason to explore the solar
system.  NASA, on the other hand, did not like bombs.  Then the test
ban treaty came along.  While Orion might be considered `peaceful',
and thus permitted, few wanted to explode any atomic bombs in the
Earth's atmosphere.

I think that if the project had started two or three years earlier, so
that a vehicle had already been designed by the time Sputnik was
launched in the Fall of 1957, the US would have built and launched one
in the summer of 1958.  This launch would have `proven' US prowness
over that of the Soviets, taken place while numerous atmosphere
nuclear tests were taking place, and taken place before ICBMs with
thermonuclear warheads became a primary US strategic weapon.

But, as I said, the project died.  Nonetheless, it provides for great
`what if' parallel world questions.

As for the present: it occurs to me that the Chinese government might
want to undertake an Orion project.  They could technically.

From their point of view, the Chinese government might seek a fleet of
Orion spaceships carrying nuclear weapons.  They would gain immediate
defensive strategic parity with the US.  They could offer a promise of
retaliation to Japan and South Korea if any neighbor attacked.
Moreover, they could threaten to attack any US warship that came to
defend Taiwan against mainland threats, without risking too much that
the US would launch an all out nuclear attack.

The Chinese could do this by launching an Orion vehicle straight up,
not crossing the US, to orbit beyond the distance of the moon.  This
would mean that a Chinese attack could not be undertaken quickly,
which would comfort the US.  (The US might well consider an Orion
vehicle in low earth orbit as highly dangerous, since if permitted to
cross over the US, it could launch a nuclear attack with almost no
warning.)

A distant orbit would also mean that missiles attacking the Orion
vehicle would be visible for a long time.  Either they could be
destroyed, or the Orion vehicle could simply turn its pusher plate
towards it, so when the attacker exploded, the Orion vehicle would
simply experience a shove as it did during launch.  Contemporary laser
and particle beam weapons are too weak to have much effect on an Orion
vehicle.

The US would, of course, build and launch its own Orion vehicles, but
design and construction might take several years.  In the meantime,
the Chinese government could aim for `re-unification' with Taiwan both
by intimidating Taiwan more strongly than now, and by offering more
benefits for accepting mainland colonization.

Possibly, mainland China could take over Taiwan.  Certainly, the goal
is one that the Chinese government supports.  The issue for it is risk
and cost.  Is it worth bringing the `rebel' province to heel?

For the Chinese, an Orion project would provide it with a way to
intimidate Taiwan, a way to gain strategic parity with the US, and a
way to offer Chinese scientists

Re: Project Orion

2003-07-16 Thread TomFODW
They use a Project Orion type spaceship in the Niven/Pournelle novel 
Footfall to launch a military mission to the F'i'thp conquered space station. That 
was the first place I ever heard of Project Orion (and a lot of other 
unconventional weapons ideas from the past, such as Thor).



Tom Beck

www.prydonians.org
www.mercerjewishsingles.org

I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the 
last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle
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RE: Project Orion

2003-07-16 Thread Horn, John
 From: Robert J. Chassell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Project Orion
 by George Dyson
 2002, Henry Holt and Co
 ISBN 0-8050-7284-5 (pbk)
 
 Recently, George Dyson wrote a book on Project Orion, a project on
 which his father, Freeman Dyson, worked in the late 1950s.  The
 project designed a heavy spaceship that could carry people to other
 planets in a reasonably time.  The spaceship would be driven by
 exploding nuclear bombs behind it, one or two very second for 10 or 20
 minutes.  (As I say below, it occurs to me that the Chinese might want
 to fund such a project now.)

Sh...   Don't give them any ideas!

Sheesh.

Obligatory third line.

Obligatory grin tag.

 - jmh
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Re: Project Orion

2003-07-16 Thread Bryon Daly
From: Robert J. Chassell [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Project Orion
by George Dyson
2002, Henry Holt and Co
ISBN 0-8050-7284-5 (pbk)
No Orion spaceships were built.  One reason is that the US Air Force,
who liked bombs, could not figure out a reason to explore the solar
system.  NASA, on the other hand, did not like bombs.  Then the test
ban treaty came along.  While Orion might be considered `peaceful',
and thus permitted, few wanted to explode any atomic bombs in the
Earth's atmosphere.
Couldn't Orion be assembled in orbit to avoid the atmosphere effects?  It
certainly would be far far more expensive to do that way, but if the
atmospheric detonations are the biggest hitch...
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Re: Project Orion

2003-07-16 Thread Alberto Monteiro
Bryon Daly wrote: 
 
 Couldn't Orion be assembled in orbit to avoid the 
 atmosphere effects?  It certainly would be far far 
 more expensive to do that way, but if the 
 atmospheric detonations are the biggest hitch... 
 
The whole point of this Orion thing is to put 
stuff into orbit. Going from ground to orbit is 
harder than going from orbit to escape speed 
 
[1st order approximation: two times harder] 
 
Alberto Monteiro 
  
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Re: Project Orion

2003-07-16 Thread Bryon Daly
From: Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Bryon Daly wrote:

 Couldn't Orion be assembled in orbit to avoid the
 atmosphere effects?  It certainly would be far far
 more expensive to do that way, but if the
 atmospheric detonations are the biggest hitch...

The whole point of this Orion thing is to put
stuff into orbit. Going from ground to orbit is
harder than going from orbit to escape speed
I certainly see the benefit of that, but I had thought the big point of 
Orion was that the relative
weight efficiency of its propulsion method (vs. say, rocket fuel) made 
more/longer acceleration
(and thus higher travel speeds) possible, enabling interplanetary (and 
interstellar) exploration.
I think I've seen Orion pitched as a way to reach a nontrivial fraction of 
light speed (IIRC,  10%)
for a mission to another star.

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Re: Project Orion

2003-07-16 Thread Robert J. Chassell
Bryon Daly [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked

Couldn't Orion be assembled in orbit to avoid the atmosphere
effects?  It certainly would be far far more expensive to do that
way, but if the atmospheric detonations are the biggest hitch...

Yes, and indeed, in the 1960s, Werner Von Braun and others suggested
just that.  Saturn rockets would lift the parts to orbit.  That
proposal died when more senior people at NASA decided that NASA had no
mandate for crewed exploration of the solar system, just a mandate to
send a few men to the moon.

-- 
Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises
http://www.rattlesnake.com  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
http://www.teak.cc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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