Re: memes, or genes...
On 27 Jul 2008, at 04:58, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 09:47 PM Saturday 7/26/2008, William T Goodall wrote: Nonsense only requires one answer. As does knee-jerk prejudice. Like the knee-jerk 'religion is not sick twisted poisonous pernicious evil filth' prejudice I encounter on this list? Clear view Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
At 06:33 AM Sunday 7/27/2008, William T Goodall wrote: On 27 Jul 2008, at 04:58, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 09:47 PM Saturday 7/26/2008, William T Goodall wrote: Nonsense only requires one answer. As does knee-jerk prejudice. Like the knee-jerk 'religion is not sick twisted poisonous pernicious evil filth' prejudice I encounter on this list? If the right knee doesn't jerk as much as the left there may be a serious problem somewhere . . . ;) . . . ronn! :) Happy is he who dares courageously to defend what he loves. - Ovid ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On 26 Jul 2008, at 03:25, Bruce Bostwick wrote: There's one particular domestic religious movement here in this country that is presently doing exactly that. It's probably not the first one most people might think. Google quiverfull for more info, the first half dozen hits will tell you a lot. Is there no limit to the depraved wickedness of the religionists? The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. - Albert Einstein -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
William wrote: Is there no limit to the depraved wickedness of the religionists? What's wicked about bringing children into the world that you have the resources to support and nurture? Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On Jul 26, 2008, at 6:56 AM, William T Goodall wrote: On 26 Jul 2008, at 03:25, Bruce Bostwick wrote: There's one particular domestic religious movement here in this country that is presently doing exactly that. It's probably not the first one most people might think. Google quiverfull for more info, the first half dozen hits will tell you a lot. Is there no limit to the depraved wickedness of the religionists? Not so far, or at least if there is a limit, they don't seem to have found it yet. Thank you all for coming around to the self-evident point I made five minutes ago. -- Toby Ziegler ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On Jul 26, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Doug Pensinger wrote: William wrote: Is there no limit to the depraved wickedness of the religionists? What's wicked about bringing children into the world that you have the resources to support and nurture? Doug If that were their motivation, I'd agree. But at 8-10 or more per family, and with the fundamentalist neopentecostal homeschooling those kids receive, they'll be able to elect their own theocrats to office at virtually every level of our government in about 30-40 more years or so. Whether that triggers another Dark Age before we reach near- total industrial and economic collapse is hard to say, but this movement in particular has been playing the long game for close to 100 years (or more, depending on the definition of where it began), and this is one of their many long-term strategies. People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome. -- River Tam, Serenity ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On 26 Jul 2008, at 16:49, Doug Pensinger wrote: William wrote: Is there no limit to the depraved wickedness of the religionists? What's wicked about bringing children into the world that you have the resources to support and nurture? The quiverfull beliefs are vile and perverted. Quiverfull authors such as Pride, Provan, and Hess extend this idea to mean that if one child is a blessing, then each additional child is likewise a blessing and not something to be viewed as economically burdensome or unaffordable. When a couple seeks to control family size via birth control they are thus rejecting God's blessings he might otherwise give, and possibly breaking his commandment to be fruitful and multiply. [1] [...] Thus, the key practice of a Quiverfull married couple is to not use any form of birth control and to maintain continual openness to children, to the possibility ofconception, during routine sexual intercourse irrespective of timing of the month during the ovulation cycle. This is considered by Quiverfull adherents to be a principal, if not the primary, aspect of their Christian calling in submission to the lordship of Christ. A healthy young Quiverfull couple might thereby have a baby every two years, meaning that as many as 10 children or more might be born during a couple's fertile years. [Ibid] [...] Quiverfull authors and adherents advocate for and seek to model a return to Biblical Patriarchy. Families are typically arranged with the mother as a homemaker under theauthority of her husband with the children under the authority of both. Parents seek to largely shelter their children from aspects of culture they as parents deem adversarial to their type of conservative Christianity. Additionally, Quiverfull families are strongly inclined toward homeschooling and homesteading in a rural area. [Ibid] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
Bruce If that were their motivation, I'd agree. But at 8-10 or more per family, and with the fundamentalist neopentecostal homeschooling those kids receive, they'll be able to elect their own theocrats to office at virtually every level of our government in about 30-40 more years or so. Whether that triggers another Dark Age before we reach near- total industrial and economic collapse is hard to say, but this movement in particular has been playing the long game for close to 100 years (or more, depending on the definition of where it began), and this is one of their many long-term strategies. I just don't see it happening according to their script. Of those 8 or 10, how many are going to follow their parent's ideology lock step? How many will rebel and provide a backlash? How isolated can they remain in a society changing as rapidly as ours? Mormons have practiced something similar to this ideology for over a hundred years; are they taking over the world? In any case, what are we going to do about it? Tell them they can't have babies? Force them to educate their kids the way we think they should? What we really need is for responsible, intelligent, enlightened people to stop making excuses for _not_ having children. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: memes, or genes...
Actually, that is standard Roman Catholic teaching as well. Except that a lot of American Catholics don't do it. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: memes, or genes... Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:55:02 -0500 On Jul 26, 2008, at 6:56 AM, William T Goodall wrote: On 26 Jul 2008, at 03:25, Bruce Bostwick wrote: There's one particular domestic religious movement here in this country that is presently doing exactly that. It's probably not the first one most people might think. Google quiverfull for more info, the first half dozen hits will tell you a lot. Is there no limit to the depraved wickedness of the religionists? Not so far, or at least if there is a limit, they don't seem to have found it yet. Thank you all for coming around to the self-evident point I made five minutes ago. -- Toby Ziegler ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008, Doug Pensinger wrote: What we really need is for responsible, intelligent, enlightened people to stop making excuses for _not_ having children. Would you consider some excuses to be reasonable? And, if responsible, enlightened people are having children, at what point do they get to decide how many is enough? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Bruce Bostwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's one particular domestic religious movement here in this country that is presently doing exactly that. It's probably not the first one most people might think. Google quiverfull for more info, the first half dozen hits will tell you a lot. Ooo, an online fertility cult! Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On 26 Jul 2008, at 17:24, Pat Mathews wrote: Actually, that is standard Roman Catholic teaching as well. Except that a lot of American Catholics don't do it. The Catholics allow natural family planning. The quiverfulls forbid any. Lemmings Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On Jul 25, 2008, at 1:45 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote: From: Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] what parts of the population are doing their best to outbreed everyone else, and why? it seems to me that less developed countries are the culprits, partly because children are a source of labor... i would hope that genetic modification is in the forecast (as long as we keep a pool of wild humans). You don't find the thought of virtually immortal genetically enhanced humans keeping a pool of wild humans is somewhat inhumane? Perhaps some would say posthuman, instead of inhumane? http://www.maxmore.com/becoming.htm Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
Julia wrote: Would you consider some excuses to be reasonable? Of course. The one I think is lame, though, is that they are somehow saving the planet by deciding not to have children. And, if responsible, enlightened people are having children, at what point do they get to decide how many is enough? Of course I'm not proposing that anyone be forced to do anything. I just think that the idea that a couple is being more responsible by _not_ having children is pure bulls__t unless there are real mitigating circumstances; if you don't have the means or the temperament or even the desire to have children. I just don't want to hear that there is some beneficent altruistic sacrifice being made. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
- Original Message - From: Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 4:23 AM Subject: Re: memes, or genes... On Jul 25, 2008, at 1:45 PM, Wayne Eddy wrote: From: Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] what parts of the population are doing their best to outbreed everyone else, and why? it seems to me that less developed countries are the culprits, partly because children are a source of labor... i would hope that genetic modification is in the forecast (as long as we keep a pool of wild humans). You don't find the thought of virtually immortal genetically enhanced humans keeping a pool of wild humans is somewhat inhumane? Perhaps some would say posthuman, instead of inhumane? http://www.maxmore.com/becoming.htm Dave Actually I was thinking more along the lines of evil or reprehensible. The post didn't say anything about gene banks, it talked about keeping wild humans. I get annoyed with people who think that mankind is a blight on the world and that the world would be a better place if homo sapiens dies out or civilisation totally collapses. There is nothing desirable about sentinent beings, dying, getting sick, growing old, getting eaten or generally suffering when there is an alternative. The sooner we can go post human the better. If someone wants to revert to the old style genome when they turn 18 fair enough, but kids shouldn't have that choice made for them by their parents, Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008, Doug Pensinger wrote: Julia wrote: Would you consider some excuses to be reasonable? Of course. The one I think is lame, though, is that they are somehow saving the planet by deciding not to have children. And, if responsible, enlightened people are having children, at what point do they get to decide how many is enough? Of course I'm not proposing that anyone be forced to do anything. I just think that the idea that a couple is being more responsible by _not_ having children is pure bulls__t unless there are real mitigating circumstances; if you don't have the means or the temperament or even the desire to have children. OK, that's what I was getting at -- I've heard too much about one friend's family of origin to *not* support her decision not to create another human being that would be forced into being related to that clusterf*** of a family. And, given that they raised her, she believes she does not have the ability to parent well. (She makes a great surrogate aunt to certain families; we don't see her very often, but every interaction she's had with my kids have been good, and she appreciates the effort I put into parenting.) So, I think that if we're not on the same page, at least we overlap by a paragraph or two. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
At 11:21 AM Saturday 7/26/2008, William T Goodall wrote: On 26 Jul 2008, at 16:49, Doug Pensinger wrote: William wrote: Is there no limit to the depraved wickedness of the religionists? What's wicked about bringing children into the world that you have the resources to support and nurture? The quiverfull beliefs are vile and perverted. Quiverfull authors such as Pride, Provan, and Hess extend this idea to mean that if one child is a blessing, then each additional child is likewise a blessing and not something to be viewed as economically burdensome or unaffordable. When a couple seeks to control family size via birth control they are thus rejecting God's blessings he might otherwise give, and possibly breaking his commandment to be fruitful and multiply. [1] [...] Thus, the key practice of a Quiverfull married couple is to not use any form of birth control and to maintain continual openness to children, to the possibility ofconception, during routine sexual intercourse irrespective of timing of the month during the ovulation cycle. This is considered by Quiverfull adherents to be a principal, if not the primary, aspect of their Christian calling in submission to the lordship of Christ. A healthy young Quiverfull couple might thereby have a baby every two years, meaning that as many as 10 children or more might be born during a couple's fertile years. [Ibid] [...] Quiverfull authors and adherents advocate for and seek to model a return to Biblical Patriarchy. Families are typically arranged with the mother as a homemaker under theauthority of her husband with the children under the authority of both. Parents seek to largely shelter their children from aspects of culture they as parents deem adversarial to their type of conservative Christianity. Additionally, Quiverfull families are strongly inclined toward homeschooling and homesteading in a rural area. [Ibid] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull You quoted the beliefs, but you failed to explain why the beliefs described in each quote are perverted. I presume you think the answer is self-evident, but for those of us dummies with IQs that fall slightly under 200 would you mind addressing each quote individually with the specific reason you find the beliefs presented in it perverted? (IOW, not just, It's a belief based on religion, and 'religion is evil and must be destroyed'.) TIA. . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
At 04:05 PM Saturday 7/26/2008, Wayne Eddy wrote: I get annoyed with people who think that mankind is a blight on the world and that the world would be a better place if homo sapiens dies out or civilisation totally collapses. That makes at least two of us. . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
At 07:17 PM Saturday 7/26/2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote: You quoted the beliefs, but you failed to explain why the beliefs described in each quote are perverted. I presume you think the answer is self-evident, but for those of us dummies with IQs that fall slightly under 200 would you mind addressing each quote individually with the specific reason you find the beliefs presented in it perverted? (IOW, not just, It's a belief based on religion, and 'religion is evil and must be destroyed'.) TIA. . . . ronn! :) One way to win an argument is to nit pick your opponent to death. My I.Q. is closer to 100 than 200, and I get it, Ronn. Jon Oh, I get it, all right. William is a very intelligent person with some interesting things to say on many topics, but he has a knee-jerk one-note answer when it comes to anything that has to do with religion, spiritual matters, or anything like that, and I'm calling on him to actually justify it instead. . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:26 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 07:17 PM Saturday 7/26/2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote: You quoted the beliefs, but you failed to explain why the beliefs described in each quote are perverted. I presume you think the answer is self-evident, but for those of us dummies with IQs that fall slightly under 200 would you mind addressing each quote individually with the specific reason you find the beliefs presented in it perverted? (IOW, not just, It's a belief based on religion, and 'religion is evil and must be destroyed'.) TIA. . . . ronn! :) One way to win an argument is to nit pick your opponent to death. My I.Q. is closer to 100 than 200, and I get it, Ronn. Jon Oh, I get it, all right. William is a very intelligent person with some interesting things to say on many topics, but he has a knee-jerk one-note answer when it comes to anything that has to do with religion, spiritual matters, or anything like that, and I'm calling on him to actually justify it instead. . . . ronn! :) The religious movement currently under discussion is one with a fairly well documented history of unhealthy behaviors including enabling, perpetuating, and interfering with investigation of a continuous multigenerational cycle of almost all imaginable forms of child abuse, coercive fund=raising practices that in some cases take more than half of the incomes of a majority of the congregation and often resort to private investigators to shake down holdouts, rampant and egregious use of their ministries to promote right-wing political agendas, and even organized takeovers of churches from other more moderate denominations. They use the language, trappings, and symbolism of Christianity, but they are actually Bible based cults tied together in a loose leaderless-cell organization with theocratic ambitions. All of this is thoroughly researched. I do, however, concede your point in that that discussion is not about religion or anything spiritual, at least not in the commonly understood definition of those words. It is about something pretending to be religion, that is destructive in exactly the ways religion is constructive. And if there is anyhing perverted, I would think that would be the very definition of the word .. religion should feed the soul, not feed *on* it. Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor. It must be demanded by the oppressed. -- M. L. King ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote: if parents don't make that choice we won't become post human. the best time to fiddle with genes is in the womb, or before, not after. if some decide not to meddle, and only procreate as wild humans, that is their choice. i expect they will die out in time as their offspring are left behind. In the cautionary tale realm, I'm flashing on _Beggars in Spain_, and specifically, the babies engineered not to sleep. Anyone who's dealt with infant twins can tell you that could be a bad idea in the short term. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On 27 Jul 2008, at 00:31, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 11:21 AM Saturday 7/26/2008, William T Goodall wrote: On 26 Jul 2008, at 16:49, Doug Pensinger wrote: William wrote: Is there no limit to the depraved wickedness of the religionists? What's wicked about bringing children into the world that you have the resources to support and nurture? The quiverfull beliefs are vile and perverted. Quiverfull authors such as Pride, Provan, and Hess extend this idea to mean that if one child is a blessing, then each additional child is likewise a blessing and not something to be viewed as economically burdensome or unaffordable. When a couple seeks to control family size via birth control they are thus rejecting God's blessings he might otherwise give, and possibly breaking his commandment to be fruitful and multiply. [1] Having as many children as physically possible without regard for the ability to provide for them or give them the necessary support as required by the norms of the society one lives in is irresponsible and wicked. Shoes, college funds, that kind of thing. [...] Thus, the key practice of a Quiverfull married couple is to not use any form of birth control and to maintain continual openness to children, to the possibility ofconception, during routine sexual intercourse irrespective of timing of the month during the ovulation cycle. This is considered by Quiverfull adherents to be a principal, if not the primary, aspect of their Christian calling in submission to the lordship of Christ. A healthy young Quiverfull couple might thereby have a baby every two years, meaning that as many as 10 children or more might be born during a couple's fertile years. [Ibid] Weird kinky sexual perversions about sex/breeding between consenting adults are OK but if the side-effect is producing children who cannot be properly provided for then it is evil. It's always men who lead these 'barefoot and pregnant' cults. [...] Quiverfull authors and adherents advocate for and seek to model a return to Biblical Patriarchy. Families are typically arranged with the mother as a homemaker under theauthority of her husband with the children under the authority of both. Parents seek to largely shelter their children from aspects of culture they as parents deem adversarial to their type of conservative Christianity. Additionally, Quiverfull families are strongly inclined toward homeschooling and homesteading in a rural area. [Ibid] Patriarchy is evil. Matriarchy is evil. Sexism is evil. Racism is evil. Any system of belief that holds that a person's role in life is determined by their gender, colour, or sexual orientation rather than their own needs and abilities is evil. Attempting to indoctrinate children into cults is evil. You quoted the beliefs, but you failed to explain why the beliefs described in each quote are perverted. I presume you think the answer is self-evident, but for those of us dummies with IQs that fall slightly under 200 would you mind addressing each quote individually with the specific reason you find the beliefs presented in it perverted? (IOW, not just, It's a belief based on religion, and 'religion is evil and must be destroyed'.) Explanation Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On 27 Jul 2008, at 01:26, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 07:17 PM Saturday 7/26/2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote: You quoted the beliefs, but you failed to explain why the beliefs described in each quote are perverted. I presume you think the answer is self-evident, but for those of us dummies with IQs that fall slightly under 200 would you mind addressing each quote individually with the specific reason you find the beliefs presented in it perverted? (IOW, not just, It's a belief based on religion, and 'religion is evil and must be destroyed'.) TIA. . . . ronn! :) One way to win an argument is to nit pick your opponent to death. My I.Q. is closer to 100 than 200, and I get it, Ronn. Jon Oh, I get it, all right. William is a very intelligent person with some interesting things to say on many topics, but he has a knee-jerk one-note answer when it comes to anything that has to do with religion, spiritual matters, or anything like that, and I'm calling on him to actually justify it instead. Nonsense only requires one answer. Enough Maru. The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. - Albert Einstein -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
At 07:48 PM Saturday 7/26/2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote: One way to win an argument is to nit pick your opponent to death. My I.Q. is closer to 100 than 200, and I get it, Ronn. Jon Oh, I get it, all right. William is a very intelligent person with some interesting things to say on many topics, but he has a knee-jerk one-note answer when it comes to anything that has to do with religion, spiritual matters, or anything like that, and I'm calling on him to actually justify it instead. . . . ronn! :) i figured you were pulling his chain, but william is right, if^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H a bit of a zealot agains religion. :P better that than the opposite... jon! . . . ronn! :D Everybody is entitled to his own ridiculous opinion. -- W. C. Widenhouse, Capt., USAF, ca. 1977 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
At 09:47 PM Saturday 7/26/2008, William T Goodall wrote: Nonsense only requires one answer. As does knee-jerk prejudice. . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what parts of the population are doing their best to outbreed everyone else, and why? it seems to me that less developed countries are the culprits, partly because children are a source of labor... And children *are* social security for many people of the world. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On 26/07/2008, at 5:59 AM, Nick Arnett wrote: On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what parts of the population are doing their best to outbreed everyone else, and why? it seems to me that less developed countries are the culprits, partly because children are a source of labor... And children *are* social security for many people of the world. Or lunch. Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008, Charlie Bell wrote: On 26/07/2008, at 5:59 AM, Nick Arnett wrote: On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what parts of the population are doing their best to outbreed everyone else, and why? it seems to me that less developed countries are the culprits, partly because children are a source of labor... And children *are* social security for many people of the world. Or lunch. How Swiftly you come to that conclusion. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On 26/07/2008, at 10:19 AM, Julia Thompson wrote: And children *are* social security for many people of the world. Or lunch. How Swiftly you come to that conclusion. Very good! :) C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
- Original Message - From: Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 5:57 AM Subject: memes, or genes... what parts of the population are doing their best to outbreed everyone else, and why? it seems to me that less developed countries are the culprits, partly because children are a source of labor... i would hope that genetic modification is in the forecast (as long as we keep a pool of wild humans). jon You don't find the thought of virtually immortal genetically enhanced humans keeping a pool of wild humans is somewhat inhumane? Regards, Wayne. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: memes, or genes...
On Jul 25, 2008, at 2:57 PM, Jon Louis Mann wrote: hkhenson wrote: And there are certain parts of the population doing their best to outbreed everyone else just to skew future demographics. So it's likely to be a hard crash, and not a very well controlled one at that. This would worry me more except I think the age of genes is about over. What do you mean by that? Do you mean that we'll be modifying ourselves rather than being subject to the random whims of mutation and selection in the next century (which is what I read) or did you mean something else? Charlie what parts of the population are doing their best to outbreed everyone else, and why? it seems to me that less developed countries are the culprits, partly because children are a source of labor... i would hope that genetic modification is in the forecast (as long as we keep a pool of wild humans). jon There's one particular domestic religious movement here in this country that is presently doing exactly that. It's probably not the first one most people might think. Google quiverfull for more info, the first half dozen hits will tell you a lot. You wanna tempt the wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing? -- Toby Ziegler ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
