Re: Schneier vs. Brin
On 3/12/08, Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Mauro Diotallevi wrote: On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I think we were talking about holy underwear with holes in it (holey). As in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment but I see from the article that they don't really have holes in them anymore. Is this the origin of the phrase God's trousers, used often by (I'm pretty sure) Sean Connery in the movie (I think), _The Man Who Would Be King_? Mormonism came into existence in 1839, so if the movie was set before that time period, no. I'm not sure when it was set, but the Kipling story was written in 1888 -- I'm not sure if the phrase was in the story or not. The movie was made in 1975, and the phrase could certainly have been anachronistic in the movie. -- Mauro Diotallevi Alcohol and calculus don't mix. Don't drink and derive. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I think we were talking about holy underwear with holes in it (holey). As in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment but I see from the article that they don't really have holes in them anymore. Is this the origin of the phrase God's trousers, used often by (I'm pretty sure) Sean Connery in the movie (I think), _The Man Who Would Be King_? Question number two: Could I be any less trusting of my memory? :-) -- Mauro Diotallevi Alcohol and calculus don't mix. Don't drink and derive. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Mauro Diotallevi wrote: On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I think we were talking about holy underwear with holes in it (holey). As in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment but I see from the article that they don't really have holes in them anymore. Is this the origin of the phrase God's trousers, used often by (I'm pretty sure) Sean Connery in the movie (I think), _The Man Who Would Be King_? Mormonism came into existence in 1839, so if the movie was set before that time period, no. -- \/\/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
On Mar 10, 2008, at 5:37 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote: Alberto wrote: But I think we were talking about holy underwear with holes in it (holey). As in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment but I see from the article that they don't really have holes in them anymore. No? Then how do people get into them? There must be some holes for arms, legs, heads, and the like. Dave 5th grade jokes Land ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
At 08:34 PM Sunday 3/9/2008, Doug Pensinger wrote: Ronn! wrote: Julia wrote: Well, in the immortal words of Bill Cosby, First you're going to say it, then you're going to do it! so clean underwear may not be what you need. Okay, I'm a little confused as to how that applies to the situation described, where your mother worries that after the accident when they get you to the hospital and remove the outer clothing from your unconscious person they see that your underwear is not clean . . . Try first you say sh**t then you do it. Underwear without extra holes induced by wear, on the other hand, is a Good Thing. Julia Depends on where the extra holes are, and how hot and humid the weather is . . . And/or your religion? Doug There's a religion that believes in wearing holey underwear? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
At 09:29 PM Sunday 3/9/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 9, 2008, at 2:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: concerning the carrying of IDs Ah, that makes sense then. There is no law against it, just like there is no law against black people driving. But, an officer has discretion concerning suspicious behavior and the Supreme Court has said that an officer can ask for an ID. So, even though its not a law, its common sense for people with certain ethnic backgrounds to carry IDs. You or I can jog in our neighborhood without them. Heck, Neli can jog here, because the police knows that she could very well be related to someone who could raise holy hell. But, a black man on an E Texas road, yeaI'll believe that. Dan M. Ray writes (in this clumsy manner since he cannot send mail from his mail program): My question was whether a US citizen is required to carry and produce ID showing they are US citizens if stopped by the Border Patrol in say NM, nowhere near any external borders. When I handed over my South Dakota driver's license as ID, I was castigated for not producing my passport. If I had said I was a US citizen, would I have been required to produce evidence of this on the spot? That option probably ended when you greeted the officer with G'day! ;) Regards, Ray. (Who had a quiet day in Carlsberg, spending many happy? hours in Walmart buying supplies etc for our trip. As I have pointed out in the recurring Wal-Mart is EVIL and must be destroyed! threads, a Wal-Mart Supercenter is one of the few places you can stop with your empty van at 4 AM local time and be completely* kitted out to leave on your cross-country road trip at first light. (Driving mostly west, I hope, as even with better sunglasses than theirs I don't particularly like driving right into the Sun.**) And if you get 700 miles from home and discover that you forgot something, there is probably another one right off one of the next few exits . . . _ *Unless perhaps you need a prescription refill or something like that, as the pharmacy in the ones I know about is usually closed at night. **Insert your own reference to Operation: Annihilate! We are doing our best to boost the US economy! Thank goodness the Aussie dollar is worth nearly twice what it was in our short visit in 2001.) -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Civil liberties, Texas and elsewhere (was Re: Schneier vs. Brin)
On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In Texas, if you're an adult, you cannot be outside your residence without an ID. Unless the Fourth Amendment really has been eliminated (and they sure have worked at it the last few years), there's no way that can be true. No way. It's disturbing to me that anybody would even think that's even possible in this country. Brown v. Texas (1979) established that police can't stop people for no reason on the street and demand ID. The closest any laws come to requiring ID are the stop and identify laws that the Supreme Court upheld in 2007... but Texas doesn't even have one of those. Those laws require the police to have reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is taking place. Everywhere else, probable cause is required. Do a search on identification, probable cause and stop and identify and you'll get lots of information about these cases. U.S. citizens -- even parolees -- are free to be in public in this country without ID... and I would hope that no Supreme Court ever fantasizes that the Fourth Amendment would permit otherwise. There's also a First Amendment issue -- demanding ID from public speakers and protesters can easily be a form of political intimidation. And a Fifth Amendment issue because it can potentially be self-incriminating to answer such questions -- the basis of the Miranda ruling. As odd as it might seen, police have a greater right to stop and frisk people (the Terry ruling in 1968) than to demand ID. So, if the cops stop you for no reason and ask for ID, I guess Search me, might be an appropriate sarcastic response. Even if and when we are issued national ID cards, it would not be legal to require that we carry them at all times. Tell your friends. Spread the word. We still have basic freedoms here. Mostly. Nick -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
Ronn! Blankenship asked: There's a religion that believes in wearing holey underwear? I guess this was a rhetorical question, but the surprising answer is a qualified yes. Afro-brazilian religion Umbanda (which is a mix-up of European Roman Catholicism, French philosopher Allan Kardec's Spiritism, African Candomble and Tupi native religions) preach that people should celebrate New Year with white clothes, but that the colour of the underwear will bring what you want for the next year - so, for example, you should wear yellow to get money, or red to get a new love (or some other colour code). wtg Never underestimate the stupidity of religions /wtg Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
Alberto wrote: Ronn! asked: There's a religion that believes in wearing holey underwear? I guess this was a rhetorical question, but the surprising answer is a qualified yes. Afro-brazilian religion Umbanda (which is a mix-up of European Roman Catholicism, French philosopher Allan Kardec's Spiritism, African Candomble and Tupi native religions) preach that people should celebrate New Year with white clothes, but that the colour of the underwear will bring what you want for the next year - so, for example, you should wear yellow to get money, or red to get a new love (or some other colour code). 8^) But I think we were talking about holy underwear with holes in it (holey). As in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment but I see from the article that they don't really have holes in them anymore. Doug Wholly Sh*t maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
At 06:04 AM Monday 3/10/2008, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Ronn! Blankenship asked: There's a religion that believes in wearing holey underwear? I guess this was a rhetorical question, but the surprising answer is a qualified yes. Afro-brazilian religion Umbanda (which is a mix-up of European Roman Catholicism, French philosopher Allan Kardec's Spiritism, African Candomble and Tupi native religions) preach that people should celebrate New Year with white clothes, but that the colour of the underwear will bring what you want for the next year - so, for example, you should wear yellow to get money, or red to get a new love (or some other colour code). So where do the (extra) holes come in? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
At 07:37 PM Monday 3/10/2008, Doug Pensinger wrote: Alberto wrote: Ronn! asked: There's a religion that believes in wearing holey underwear? I guess this was a rhetorical question, but the surprising answer is a qualified yes. Afro-brazilian religion Umbanda (which is a mix-up of European Roman Catholicism, French philosopher Allan Kardec's Spiritism, African Candomble and Tupi native religions) preach that people should celebrate New Year with white clothes, but that the colour of the underwear will bring what you want for the next year - so, for example, you should wear yellow to get money, or red to get a new love (or some other colour code). 8^) But I think we were talking about holy underwear with holes in it (holey). As in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment but I see from the article that they don't really have holes in them anymore. Not until they've been worn for awhile . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jon louis mann said the following on 3/8/2008 5:33 PM: I found myself disturbed that I'm attracted to the idea of carrying an MP3 recording device at all times, just in case I get stopped by law enforcement and want my own recording of the event. Ray writes: I felt the same myself the other day when we were stopped by the Border Patrol near White Sands NM. We were rudely treated and harassed by an officious officer because we did not have our passports with us. It had never been mentioned to us that this was a US Govt requirement. I insulted him by proffering my new South Dakota driving license! A note has been made on your record that you have been informed that next time you are liable to be arrested. Left a real sour taste in the mouth. This is the first person we have come across in our first four weeks traveling through the US who has been unfriendly. In general, people have been fantastically helpful and friendly. A question just comes to mind.Do US citizens need to carry ID? In Texas, if you're an adult, you cannot be outside your residence without an ID. If you're white and female, you can probably get away with it for decades as long as you're not actually driving without having your license on you. If you're black and male, you're going to find yourself in a world of hurt pretty darn quickly if you go out without your ID one day, especially in certain parts of the state. (These statements are based on the experiences of people I know.) Julia (who has accidentally left the house without a license once in the past 5 years, and went back for it in a hurry as soon as she realized - not that she's ever gotten pulled over for anything other than expired stickers, but that's not a risk anyone really wants to take, right?) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
Julia Thompson said the following on 3/9/2008 10:53 AM: In Texas, if you're an adult, you cannot be outside your residence without an ID. Is that a state law or the way it is? --[Lance] -- Celebrate The Circle http://www.celebratethecircle.org/ Carolina Spirit Quest http://www.carolinaspiritquest.org/ GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9 CACert.org Assurer ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
At 09:53 AM Sunday 3/9/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jon louis mann said the following on 3/8/2008 5:33 PM: I found myself disturbed that I'm attracted to the idea of carrying an MP3 recording device at all times, just in case I get stopped by law enforcement and want my own recording of the event. Ray writes: I felt the same myself the other day when we were stopped by the Border Patrol near White Sands NM. We were rudely treated and harassed by an officious officer because we did not have our passports with us. It had never been mentioned to us that this was a US Govt requirement. I insulted him by proffering my new South Dakota driving license! A note has been made on your record that you have been informed that next time you are liable to be arrested. Left a real sour taste in the mouth. This is the first person we have come across in our first four weeks traveling through the US who has been unfriendly. In general, people have been fantastically helpful and friendly. A question just comes to mind.Do US citizens need to carry ID? In Texas, if you're an adult, you cannot be outside your residence without an ID. Not even standing in your back yard? So you have to carry your wallet when you're mowing the lawn in mid-summer wearing nothing but shorts (men) so as not to get heatstroke, or lounging by your swimming pool in a bikini (I'm not even going to mention the possibility that you have a hot tub), or dumping some extra-stinky garbage (e.g. used cat litter or a full diaper) into your garbage can late at night? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 09:53 AM Sunday 3/9/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jon louis mann said the following on 3/8/2008 5:33 PM: I found myself disturbed that I'm attracted to the idea of carrying an MP3 recording device at all times, just in case I get stopped by law enforcement and want my own recording of the event. Ray writes: I felt the same myself the other day when we were stopped by the Border Patrol near White Sands NM. We were rudely treated and harassed by an officious officer because we did not have our passports with us. It had never been mentioned to us that this was a US Govt requirement. I insulted him by proffering my new South Dakota driving license! A note has been made on your record that you have been informed that next time you are liable to be arrested. Left a real sour taste in the mouth. This is the first person we have come across in our first four weeks traveling through the US who has been unfriendly. In general, people have been fantastically helpful and friendly. A question just comes to mind.Do US citizens need to carry ID? In Texas, if you're an adult, you cannot be outside your residence without an ID. Not even standing in your back yard? So you have to carry your wallet when you're mowing the lawn in mid-summer wearing nothing but shorts (men) so as not to get heatstroke, or lounging by your swimming pool in a bikini (I'm not even going to mention the possibility that you have a hot tub), or dumping some extra-stinky garbage (e.g. used cat litter or a full diaper) into your garbage can late at night? On your property, I should have said. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
At 12:34 PM Sunday 3/9/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 09:53 AM Sunday 3/9/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jon louis mann said the following on 3/8/2008 5:33 PM: I found myself disturbed that I'm attracted to the idea of carrying an MP3 recording device at all times, just in case I get stopped by law enforcement and want my own recording of the event. Ray writes: I felt the same myself the other day when we were stopped by the Border Patrol near White Sands NM. We were rudely treated and harassed by an officious officer because we did not have our passports with us. It had never been mentioned to us that this was a US Govt requirement. I insulted him by proffering my new South Dakota driving license! A note has been made on your record that you have been informed that next time you are liable to be arrested. Left a real sour taste in the mouth. This is the first person we have come across in our first four weeks traveling through the US who has been unfriendly. In general, people have been fantastically helpful and friendly. A question just comes to mind.Do US citizens need to carry ID? In Texas, if you're an adult, you cannot be outside your residence without an ID. Not even standing in your back yard? So you have to carry your wallet when you're mowing the lawn in mid-summer wearing nothing but shorts (men) so as not to get heatstroke, or lounging by your swimming pool in a bikini (I'm not even going to mention the possibility that you have a hot tub), or dumping some extra-stinky garbage (e.g. used cat litter or a full diaper) into your garbage can late at night? On your property, I should have said. Julia So if your next door neighbors tell you to come over and lounge by their pool, you'd better find some place for a wallet in your thong? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 12:34 PM Sunday 3/9/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 09:53 AM Sunday 3/9/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jon louis mann said the following on 3/8/2008 5:33 PM: I found myself disturbed that I'm attracted to the idea of carrying an MP3 recording device at all times, just in case I get stopped by law enforcement and want my own recording of the event. Ray writes: I felt the same myself the other day when we were stopped by the Border Patrol near White Sands NM. We were rudely treated and harassed by an officious officer because we did not have our passports with us. It had never been mentioned to us that this was a US Govt requirement. I insulted him by proffering my new South Dakota driving license! A note has been made on your record that you have been informed that next time you are liable to be arrested. Left a real sour taste in the mouth. This is the first person we have come across in our first four weeks traveling through the US who has been unfriendly. In general, people have been fantastically helpful and friendly. A question just comes to mind.Do US citizens need to carry ID? In Texas, if you're an adult, you cannot be outside your residence without an ID. Not even standing in your back yard? So you have to carry your wallet when you're mowing the lawn in mid-summer wearing nothing but shorts (men) so as not to get heatstroke, or lounging by your swimming pool in a bikini (I'm not even going to mention the possibility that you have a hot tub), or dumping some extra-stinky garbage (e.g. used cat litter or a full diaper) into your garbage can late at night? On your property, I should have said. Julia So if your next door neighbors tell you to come over and lounge by their pool, you'd better find some place for a wallet in your thong? Duh, you need your *towel*, dude. Just sew a little pocket in the corner, and you're golden! :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
Original Message: - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:34:42 -0500 (CDT) To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Schneier vs. Brin In Texas, if you're an adult, you cannot be outside your residence without an ID. On your property, I should have said. How sure are you of this Julia? I have two reasons to question this. First, Google didn't give me any hits on this...just side hits on ID requirements for beer, etc. Second, my daughter Neli (one of my two Zambian daughters) was in a car which was pulled over for DWB in the Woodlands. The people in the care were asked why they were in the Woodlands. Neli said I live here. She was asked for ID and she said I don't need ID, I'm not driving. The matter was dropped. Given that they were pulled over for DWB, if she was legally required to carry ID at all times, wouldn't they have mentioned that at the time. Heck, a constible who pulls folks over for DWB is looking for someone to arrest in my book. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l mail2web.com What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Original Message: - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:34:42 -0500 (CDT) To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Schneier vs. Brin In Texas, if you're an adult, you cannot be outside your residence without an ID. On your property, I should have said. How sure are you of this Julia? I have two reasons to question this. First, Google didn't give me any hits on this...just side hits on ID requirements for beer, etc. Second, my daughter Neli (one of my two Zambian daughters) was in a car which was pulled over for DWB in the Woodlands. The people in the care were asked why they were in the Woodlands. Neli said I live here. She was asked for ID and she said I don't need ID, I'm not driving. The matter was dropped. Given that they were pulled over for DWB, if she was legally required to carry ID at all times, wouldn't they have mentioned that at the time. Heck, a constible who pulls folks over for DWB is looking for someone to arrest in my book. Dan M. I've heard from black men that if they're walking out on the road in East Texas, they damn well better have ID on them, and failure to produce ID will get you in some trouble. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
Original Message: - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 14:47:55 -0500 (CDT) To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Schneier vs. Brin On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Original Message: - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:34:42 -0500 (CDT) To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Schneier vs. Brin In Texas, if you're an adult, you cannot be outside your residence without an ID. On your property, I should have said. How sure are you of this Julia? I have two reasons to question this. First, Google didn't give me any hits on this...just side hits on ID requirements for beer, etc. Second, my daughter Neli (one of my two Zambian daughters) was in a car which was pulled over for DWB in the Woodlands. The people in the care were asked why they were in the Woodlands. Neli said I live here. She was asked for ID and she said I don't need ID, I'm not driving. The matter was dropped. Given that they were pulled over for DWB, if she was legally required to carry ID at all times, wouldn't they have mentioned that at the time. Heck, a constible who pulls folks over for DWB is looking for someone to arrest in my book. Dan M. I've heard from black men that if they're walking out on the road in East Texas, they damn well better have ID on them, and failure to produce ID will get you in some trouble. Ah, that makes sense then. There is no law against it, just like there is no law against black people driving. But, an officer has discretion concerning suspicious behavior and the Supreme Court has said that an officer can ask for an ID. So, even though its not a law, its common sense for people with certain ethnic backgrounds to carry IDs. You or I can jog in our neighborhood without them. Heck, Neli can jog here, because the police knows that she could very well be related to someone who could raise holy hell. But, a black man on an E Texas road, yeaI'll believe that. Dan M. mail2web LIVE Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Original Message: - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 14:47:55 -0500 (CDT) To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Schneier vs. Brin On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Original Message: - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:34:42 -0500 (CDT) To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Schneier vs. Brin In Texas, if you're an adult, you cannot be outside your residence without an ID. On your property, I should have said. How sure are you of this Julia? I have two reasons to question this. First, Google didn't give me any hits on this...just side hits on ID requirements for beer, etc. Second, my daughter Neli (one of my two Zambian daughters) was in a car which was pulled over for DWB in the Woodlands. The people in the care were asked why they were in the Woodlands. Neli said I live here. She was asked for ID and she said I don't need ID, I'm not driving. The matter was dropped. Given that they were pulled over for DWB, if she was legally required to carry ID at all times, wouldn't they have mentioned that at the time. Heck, a constible who pulls folks over for DWB is looking for someone to arrest in my book. Dan M. I've heard from black men that if they're walking out on the road in East Texas, they damn well better have ID on them, and failure to produce ID will get you in some trouble. Ah, that makes sense then. There is no law against it, just like there is no law against black people driving. But, an officer has discretion concerning suspicious behavior and the Supreme Court has said that an officer can ask for an ID. So, even though its not a law, its common sense for people with certain ethnic backgrounds to carry IDs. You or I can jog in our neighborhood without them. Heck, Neli can jog here, because the police knows that she could very well be related to someone who could raise holy hell. But, a black man on an E Texas road, yeaI'll believe that. Dan M. And, better safe than sorry -- if I'm in someone else's car and there's a major crash, better for me to have ID on me so they have an easier time figuring out who I am. (Also, if you're an adult, you can't get into an elementary school around here without a driver's license. They scan it, get info from a database, and print up a visitor sticker that has the picture from your license.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
At 03:30 PM Sunday 3/9/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Original Message: - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 14:47:55 -0500 (CDT) To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Schneier vs. Brin On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Original Message: - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:34:42 -0500 (CDT) To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Schneier vs. Brin In Texas, if you're an adult, you cannot be outside your residence without an ID. On your property, I should have said. How sure are you of this Julia? I have two reasons to question this. First, Google didn't give me any hits on this...just side hits on ID requirements for beer, etc. Second, my daughter Neli (one of my two Zambian daughters) was in a car which was pulled over for DWB in the Woodlands. The people in the care were asked why they were in the Woodlands. Neli said I live here. She was asked for ID and she said I don't need ID, I'm not driving. The matter was dropped. Given that they were pulled over for DWB, if she was legally required to carry ID at all times, wouldn't they have mentioned that at the time. Heck, a constible who pulls folks over for DWB is looking for someone to arrest in my book. Dan M. I've heard from black men that if they're walking out on the road in East Texas, they damn well better have ID on them, and failure to produce ID will get you in some trouble. Ah, that makes sense then. There is no law against it, just like there is no law against black people driving. But, an officer has discretion concerning suspicious behavior and the Supreme Court has said that an officer can ask for an ID. So, even though its not a law, its common sense for people with certain ethnic backgrounds to carry IDs. You or I can jog in our neighborhood without them. Heck, Neli can jog here, because the police knows that she could very well be related to someone who could raise holy hell. But, a black man on an E Texas road, yeaI'll believe that. Dan M. And, better safe than sorry -- if I'm in someone else's car and there's a major crash, better for me to have ID on me so they have an easier time figuring out who I am. (Also, if you're an adult, you can't get into an elementary school around here without a driver's license. They scan it, get info from a database, and print up a visitor sticker that has the picture from your license.) Julia I think we're getting to some sort of agreement here. I noticed that most of Julia's initial examples seemed to have as a basic assumption that you were _driving_ somewhere, and of course you are supposed to have your drivers license (as well as proof of insurance and in a lot of places the vehicle registration) in your possession whenever you are driving. And indeed in many jurisdictions a white woman, particularly if she is also pulchritudinous, is more likely to get a pass from the police or other authorities than a black man. And, as Dan's example shows, if you are walking or driving in a neighborhood where you do not seem to fit the neighborhood demographic, particularly late at night, you may well be stopped and asked for ID and asked what reason you have for being in that place at that time, and not just in Texas. And at any time of the day or night you might be stopped while walking or driving along if you and/or your vehicle resemble someone they are looking for, particularly if a crime has just occurred in the vicinity, and again asked for ID and why you happen to be there. OTOH, when a lot of people go jogging they don't have a pocket big enough to carry much of anything, and indeed some folks may still go out running with nothing but a door key hanging on a lanyard around their neck so they can get back in when they are done. (Though similarly to Julia's next-to-last example carrying some ID might be a good idea in case they get hit by a car or something, as well as following your mother's advice to be wearing clean underwear . . . ) And because of crimes which have been committed on the premises of such institutions it makes sense that you should be required to show ID and give a valid reason for being there if you want to enter a school or some other places. However, around here at least, you can still walk your dog around the block without being stopped at every corner by some guy in a brown shirt and jackboots carrying a machine gun and saying Your papers, please, comrade. And while it's been awhile since I was last in Texas, and on that trip all my father and I did was take turns driving a U-Haul truck across the state stopping mainly at places like gas stations and places to eat, no one in uniform demanded to see our papers when we stopped nor pulled us over
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
At 06:03 PM Sunday 3/9/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: (Though similarly to Julia's next-to-last example carrying some ID might be a good idea in case they get hit by a car or something, as well as following your mother's advice to be wearing clean underwear . . . ) Well, in the immortal words of Bill Cosby, First you're going to say it, then you're going to do it! so clean underwear may not be what you need. Okay, I'm a little confused as to how that applies to the situation described, where your mother worries that after the accident when they get you to the hospital and remove the outer clothing from your unconscious person they see that your underwear is not clean . . . Underwear without extra holes induced by wear, on the other hand, is a Good Thing. Julia Depends on where the extra holes are, and how hot and humid the weather is . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
Ronn! wrote: Julia wrote: Well, in the immortal words of Bill Cosby, First you're going to say it, then you're going to do it! so clean underwear may not be what you need. Okay, I'm a little confused as to how that applies to the situation described, where your mother worries that after the accident when they get you to the hospital and remove the outer clothing from your unconscious person they see that your underwear is not clean . . . Try first you say sh**t then you do it. Underwear without extra holes induced by wear, on the other hand, is a Good Thing. Julia Depends on where the extra holes are, and how hot and humid the weather is . . . And/or your religion? Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
On Mar 9, 2008, at 2:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: concerning the carrying of IDs Ah, that makes sense then. There is no law against it, just like there is no law against black people driving. But, an officer has discretion concerning suspicious behavior and the Supreme Court has said that an officer can ask for an ID. So, even though its not a law, its common sense for people with certain ethnic backgrounds to carry IDs. You or I can jog in our neighborhood without them. Heck, Neli can jog here, because the police knows that she could very well be related to someone who could raise holy hell. But, a black man on an E Texas road, yeaI'll believe that. Dan M. Ray writes (in this clumsy manner since he cannot send mail from his mail program): My question was whether a US citizen is required to carry and produce ID showing they are US citizens if stopped by the Border Patrol in say NM, nowhere near any external borders. When I handed over my South Dakota driver's license as ID, I was castigated for not producing my passport. If I had said I was a US citizen, would I have been required to produce evidence of this on the spot? Regards, Ray. (Who had a quiet day in Carlsberg, spending many happy? hours in Walmart buying supplies etc for our trip. We are doing our best to boost the US economy! Thank goodness the Aussie dollar is worth nearly twice what it was in our short visit in 2001.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
On Mar 8, 2008, at 2:33 PM, jon louis mann wrote: Nevertheless, I like the idea of being able to listen in on high government officials planning ways to subvert the constitution. Well, the guys who _wrote_ the constitution did so in secret. Yes, they published the Federalist Papers, a PR effort to generate support for their effort, but it could scarcely be called a transparent process. Of course, Don't let this make you think that I am disappointed with the result: what this bunch of white, mostly slave-holding-friendly men cooked up in private that summer of 1787 has survived various insults and injuries by presidents as varied as Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt and (so far) G. W. It's just a goddamned piece of paper Bush. I was with those at the Aspen Institute recently who felt that it was likely to survive this latest onslaught, too. There are times when transparency is best, and there are times when complete opacity is necessary, for a time. The trick is to know which is appropriate when. Planning an invasion of another country (let's assume, for a moment, that it is being done for the right reasons) should definitely _not_ be done with transparency, at least not in anything like real time, if it is to be successful and to protect the safety of those executing the invasion. Then again, deciding whether a certain shabby stretch of Story Road in East San Jose should be designated Little Saigon or The Saigon Business District is something that definitely should have be done in public. It might have saved the city months hard feelings, and may even save the life of Ly Tong, the protester who has been on a hunger strike over the issue for 23 days.* Dave * Yes, really: This guy is betting his life that he can convince the City of San Jose to name a crappy stretch of strip malls Little Saigon. He stopped drinking water a couple of days ago, after the city removed the designation Saigon Business District, and says that if he dies, it'll be on the head of Mayor Chuck Reed. The whole thing is making a neighborhood uncomfortably close to mine look incredibly stupid, in addition to being decidedly shoddy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Schneier vs. Brin
Bruce Schneier has a column up on WIRED talking about the myth of the 'Transparent Society'. http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/03/securitymatters_0306 --[Lance] I agree that, Ubiquitous surveillance programs that affect everyone without probable cause or warrant, like the National Security Agency's warrantless eavesdropping programs, or various proposals to monitor everything on the internet, foster control.. Personally, I have nothing to hide, but there is always a danger that people in positions of power will abuse and violate privacy. The opportunity to prevent crimes, and apprehend terrorists, etc., may not be worth the tradeoff. I do feel that spying on the government will prevent some of these abuses, but there are times when matters of national security require secrecy. Nevertheless, I like the idea of being able to listen in on high government officials planning ways to subvert the constitution. --[Jon] Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
jon louis mann said the following on 3/8/2008 5:33 PM: I do feel that spying on the government will prevent some of these abuses, but there are times when matters of national security require secrecy. Nevertheless, I like the idea of being able to listen in on high government officials planning ways to subvert the constitution. Yeah. I found myself disturbed that I'm attracted to the idea of carrying an MP3 recording device at all times, just in case I get stopped by law enforcement and want my own recording of the event. I used to have a lot of trust in the Police. --[Lance] -- Celebrate The Circle http://www.celebratethecircle.org/ Carolina Spirit Quest http://www.carolinaspiritquest.org/ GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9 CACert.org Assurer ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
At 05:00 PM Saturday 3/8/2008, Lance A. Brown wrote: jon louis mann said the following on 3/8/2008 5:33 PM: I do feel that spying on the government will prevent some of these abuses, but there are times when matters of national security require secrecy. Nevertheless, I like the idea of being able to listen in on high government officials planning ways to subvert the constitution. Yeah. I found myself disturbed that I'm attracted to the idea of carrying an MP3 recording device at all times, just in case I get stopped by law enforcement and want my own recording of the event. Be sure you get one which will survive being thrown to the pavement and stomped on by jackboots after it's discovered during your beating . . . -- Ronn! :P Professional Smart-Aleck. Do Not Attempt. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Schneier vs. Brin
I found myself disturbed that I'm attracted to the idea of carrying an MP3 recording device at all times, just in case I get stopped by law enforcement and want my own recording of the event. I used to have a lot of trust in the Police. --[Lance] Be sure you get one which will survive being thrown to the pavement and stomped on by jackboots after it's discovered during your beating. -- Ronn! :P Does it work with an Ipod? -- Jon Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Schneier vs. Brin
jon louis mann said the following on 3/8/2008 5:33 PM: I found myself disturbed that I'm attracted to the idea of carrying an MP3 recording device at all times, just in case I get stopped by law enforcement and want my own recording of the event. Ray writes: I felt the same myself the other day when we were stopped by the Border Patrol near White Sands NM. We were rudely treated and harassed by an officious officer because we did not have our passports with us. It had never been mentioned to us that this was a US Govt requirement. I insulted him by proffering my new South Dakota driving license! A note has been made on your record that you have been informed that next time you are liable to be arrested. Left a real sour taste in the mouth. This is the first person we have come across in our first four weeks traveling through the US who has been unfriendly. In general, people have been fantastically helpful and friendly. A question just comes to mind.Do US citizens need to carry ID? Regards, Ray. (who spent the day in the fabulous Carlsbad Caverns - fantastic!) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Schneier vs. Brin
Bruce Schneier has a column up on WIRED talking about the myth of the 'Transparent Society'. http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/03/securitymatters_0306 --[Lance] -- Celebrate The Circle http://www.celebratethecircle.org/ Carolina Spirit Quest http://www.carolinaspiritquest.org/ GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9 CACert.org Assurer ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
