Re: Techno Dance Itch
Trent Shipley wrote: Yeah. Well that's not quite _it_. The crucial feature is being able to *group* the receiver appliances into groups. Russell Chapman replied: I *think* that's what these systems do. Some hear only the backing track (ie the filler stuff not being played by anyone on stage), some hear the music in total, and some only hear the stage manager's instructions, but who hears what can be switched from the backstage console. I imagine that your dance floor proposal could be done much cheaper than these things, and would require less expertise to operate. Perhaps IR could be utilised, with ceiling mounted transmitters. IR receiving headphones are very cheap in department stores. Having done a little recording studio and live audio work... Yes, it's certainly possible to have multiple separate monitor mixes (mixes for the headphones or earphones or monitor speakers used by each performer). If there are only one or two separate monitor mixes, the person doing the main audience mix might also handle the monitor mix. Sometimes there are separate mixes for each person, and usually that means three or four different mixing boards, often located backstage, each manned by a different mixer. I was backstage at a Neville Brothers concert (part of a big weekend-long outdoor festival here in KC a few years ago), and I saw no less than 5 backstage monitor mixers and two people manning the main audience mixing board, and two or three other people setting up mixing boards to be used for monitors for the next group. That's the most mixing boards I've ever seen in the same place outside of a music store. But Trent, for what you're talking about, it's as simple as having low-power transmitters on different radio frequencies and headphones that can be tuned to those frequencies. Schools have been doing something similar (only in a wired version) for a number of years with keyboard labs. Each student sits at an electronic keyboard with headphones on, and the teacher is able to listen to each individual student. In some systems, the teacher can group two to four students who are working on duets or trios or who are each playing a separate part of a four-part chorale so that all students in a given group hear the keyboards of all the other students in that same group, but no one else hears them and they hear no one else. Many of these systems also have microphones built into the headsets so the teacher and student can communicate to each other without either one having to get up from their desk. I think I've seen the mixers and headsets sold separately from the keyboards. My wife and I are going to a music education conference in late January where they might have some things like that set up in the vendor area. I'll see if there are any wireless systems currently available and sold without keyboards and let you know. You might want to send me a reminder email around January 20 or 21. I think the conference is that following weekend. Reggie Bautista _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [azipa] Techno Dance Itch
Battery powered, multi-channel FM transmitters (Radio Shack, ~$20) Battery powered portable FM sport radio (yellow) in compact headset style, or wristband belt clip. (Radio Shack, ~$20). Going low tech because high tech is overkill: Priceless. - billn On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Trent Shipley wrote: Last week, being then employed and interested in social activity and exercise, I took a free dance lesson from an acquaintance. The main thing I learned was that music is a scarce and precious commodity in a dance studio. You can only put one, or at most two, sets of music over the loud speaker systems. Personal systems are *too* personal. A couple cannot coordinate walkmen or even mp3 players. WANTED: a wireless audio system for very local broadcasting -- to be used in dance studios and dance departments. (Ideally, somebody already makes this. If not, have Motorola give me a call.) TARGET MARKETS: Dance studios and dance departments or schools. Gymnastics coaches. Figure skaters and coaches. Personal or small-group trainers who teach rythm aerobics. Other markets for mini-cast audio. COMPONENTS: Information Appliances (2): Personal headset unit with compact receiver and powersource. Compact remote control unit. Base unit (3 sub-components) To be housed on PC, eventual migration to central info-appliance possible. Wireless LAN. Broadcaster software. == RECIEVER UNIT (RU): Low bulk, low weight. Useable by serious amatuer and professional dancers, gymnists, aerobicizers, and otherwise friendly to atheletes and interpretive artists who need access to audio mini-cast to a small group. Note that when I discussed this with my dancer friend she immediately thought it would be good for personal use. Thus, a version of the reciever appliance will be able to store audio in non-volitile memory. It will include the basic command functions listed below. (That is, in addition to participating as a reciever in a LAN mini-cast, some models of reciever unit *must* act exactly like current Mp3 players.) Reciver units shall have unique serial numbers (eg. MAC addresses) that can be aliased by the broadcaster software. SNs will be used to assign reciever appliances to broadcast groups. *THE* reason for the mini-cast system is to provide synchronized music to small groups in areas with high audio congestion. Therefore, users must be able to configure RUs into mini-cast reception groups. All recivers in a mini-cast group will get the same audio broadcast. Therefore, system implementers will be *very* cautious about using cached data when as RU is a member of a reception group that contains any other RUs as members. An RU cannot be restricted by line-of-sight. COMPACT REMOTE CONTROL UNIT (CRCU): Used by coaches and instructors, the remote control units will provide basic music control functions such as select song, make bookmark, goto bookmark, pause, stop, fast forward, reverse, and--never to be forgotten--play. The designer will *NOT* put excess function into the CRCU. Each button shall have one, and *ONLY* one function. The RU and CRCU may be integrated into a single assembly. It is marginally desirable that a palm-top augmented with appropriate software and hardware be able te emulate a CRCU. A CRCU cannot be restricted by line-of-sight. BASE UNIT (XMITer): Early versions of the base unit will be implemented from an Intel or Apple computer using mircrowave or RF wireless LAN (eg wireless ethernet). Line-of-sight technologies are inappropriate for this application. The wireless LAN must have sufficient bandwidth to support seamless, high quality broadcast of at least 5 simultaneous audio programs. The ability to add wireless LANs on slightly different frequencies, thereby expanding the system, is moderately desirable. Software will be included to manage the system (the App). The Application Administrator will be able to control storage and access to copywritten material, user access, where data is stored, and so on. Approprate interfaces will be provided to the App Admin. A critical job for the App Admin will be naming RU and CRCU appliances. *NOTE* that the App Admin is likely to be one or several small business owners with limited legal or computer expertise. Power users (coaches, instructors, and so on) will be designated by the app admin. They will need to manage their own music, access studio owned music, assemble programming for a given class, and so on. Most importantly, power users will need to define a group of RUs that will receive a mini-cast. They will also need to designate the CRCU that will control the mini-cast. The only domain expert consulted thus far seemed very interested in a personal RU with storage capablity. While the intital prototype may require aliasing a fixed set of RUs and CRCUs, the system will be designed to add and drop RU and CRCU
Re: [azipa] Techno Dance Itch
Bill Nash wrote: Battery powered, multi-channel FM transmitters (Radio Shack, ~$20) Battery powered portable FM sport radio (yellow) in compact headset style, or wristband belt clip. (Radio Shack, ~$20). Going low tech because high tech is overkill: Priceless. DOH! Why didn't I think of this! I've done sound designs for a community theater group called Wyandotte Players, and they use a Radio Shack short-range FM transmitter and small radios for hearing assistance for those in the audience who don't hear very well. The advantage of the other system I posted about is the talkback channel, but if you don't need that... Reggie Bautista _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Techno Dance Itch
Last week, being then employed and interested in social activity and exercise, I took a free dance lesson from an acquaintance. The main thing I learned was that music is a scarce and precious commodity in a dance studio. You can only put one, or at most two, sets of music over the loud speaker systems. Personal systems are *too* personal. A couple cannot coordinate walkmen or even mp3 players. WANTED: a wireless audio system for very local broadcasting -- to be used in dance studios and dance departments. (Ideally, somebody already makes this. If not, have Motorola give me a call.) TARGET MARKETS: Dance studios and dance departments or schools. Gymnastics coaches. Figure skaters and coaches. Personal or small-group trainers who teach rythm aerobics. Other markets for mini-cast audio. COMPONENTS: Information Appliances (2): Personal headset unit with compact receiver and powersource. Compact remote control unit. Base unit (3 sub-components) To be housed on PC, eventual migration to central info-appliance possible. Wireless LAN. Broadcaster software. == RECIEVER UNIT (RU): Low bulk, low weight. Useable by serious amatuer and professional dancers, gymnists, aerobicizers, and otherwise friendly to atheletes and interpretive artists who need access to audio mini-cast to a small group. Note that when I discussed this with my dancer friend she immediately thought it would be good for personal use. Thus, a version of the reciever appliance will be able to store audio in non-volitile memory. It will include the basic command functions listed below. (That is, in addition to participating as a reciever in a LAN mini-cast, some models of reciever unit *must* act exactly like current Mp3 players.) Reciver units shall have unique serial numbers (eg. MAC addresses) that can be aliased by the broadcaster software. SNs will be used to assign reciever appliances to broadcast groups. *THE* reason for the mini-cast system is to provide synchronized music to small groups in areas with high audio congestion. Therefore, users must be able to configure RUs into mini-cast reception groups. All recivers in a mini-cast group will get the same audio broadcast. Therefore, system implementers will be *very* cautious about using cached data when as RU is a member of a reception group that contains any other RUs as members. An RU cannot be restricted by line-of-sight. COMPACT REMOTE CONTROL UNIT (CRCU): Used by coaches and instructors, the remote control units will provide basic music control functions such as select song, make bookmark, goto bookmark, pause, stop, fast forward, reverse, and--never to be forgotten--play. The designer will *NOT* put excess function into the CRCU. Each button shall have one, and *ONLY* one function. The RU and CRCU may be integrated into a single assembly. It is marginally desirable that a palm-top augmented with appropriate software and hardware be able te emulate a CRCU. A CRCU cannot be restricted by line-of-sight. BASE UNIT (XMITer): Early versions of the base unit will be implemented from an Intel or Apple computer using mircrowave or RF wireless LAN (eg wireless ethernet). Line-of-sight technologies are inappropriate for this application. The wireless LAN must have sufficient bandwidth to support seamless, high quality broadcast of at least 5 simultaneous audio programs. The ability to add wireless LANs on slightly different frequencies, thereby expanding the system, is moderately desirable. Software will be included to manage the system (the App). The Application Administrator will be able to control storage and access to copywritten material, user access, where data is stored, and so on. Approprate interfaces will be provided to the App Admin. A critical job for the App Admin will be naming RU and CRCU appliances. *NOTE* that the App Admin is likely to be one or several small business owners with limited legal or computer expertise. Power users (coaches, instructors, and so on) will be designated by the app admin. They will need to manage their own music, access studio owned music, assemble programming for a given class, and so on. Most importantly, power users will need to define a group of RUs that will receive a mini-cast. They will also need to designate the CRCU that will control the mini-cast. The only domain expert consulted thus far seemed very interested in a personal RU with storage capablity. While the intital prototype may require aliasing a fixed set of RUs and CRCUs, the system will be designed to add and drop RU and CRCU appliances _ad hoc_. Adding new RU-CRCU appliances and designating a group should be fast--taking under five minutes for initial production versions of the system. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Techno Dance Itch
Yeah. Well that's not quite _it_. The crucial feature is being able to *group* the receiver appliances into groups. What I observed was a single large dance floor. A divider effectively separated the floor into two rooms. For better or worse neither room was acoustically isolated. Each room had its own music played through loud-speakers. Room one had a class--that is one teacher with many students. Room two had a championship couple and their coach and three private instructors, each with a student. Music was played at a moderate volume because students and teachers needed to talk. Furthermore, other business needs might require verbal communication. In short, they had a maximum supply of two audio channels for music, they had demand for five channels of music. Furthermore, each coach or instructor needed to control the music so they and their student(s) got a synchronized musical program. Proposed Class in room one: 1 -- Audio 1: Loudspeaker 1.1 1.2 ... 1.n Sessions in room two (currently all listen to the same music): 2a -- Audio 2: mini-cast 2a.1 2a.2 2b -- Audio 3:mini-cast 2b.1 2c -- Audio 4:mini-cast 2c.1 2d -- Audio 5:mini-cast 2d.1 Plus my friend _might_ want to practice by herself, but at the studio, and using her mini-cast receiver. 2e -- Audio 6:mini-cast OR audio stored in reciver unit. On Wednesday 04 December 2002 11:37 pm, Russell Chapman wrote: Trent Shipley wrote: WANTED: a wireless audio system for very local broadcasting -- to be used in dance studios and dance departments. (Ideally, somebody already makes this. If not, have Motorola give me a call.) U - ever watched a band in concert recently? It is quite common for the band members, roadies and sound and lighting techs to all have an interconnected set of short range wireless headphones, some with mikes and some without. Well, it is here, anyway Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Techno Dance Itch
Trent Shipley wrote: Yeah. Well that's not quite _it_. The crucial feature is being able to *group* the receiver appliances into groups. I *think* that's what these systems do. Some hear only the backing track (ie the filler stuff not being played by anyone on stage), some hear the music in total, and some only hear the stage manager's instructions, but who hears what can be switched from the backstage console. I imagine that your dance floor proposal could be done much cheaper than these things, and would require less expertise to operate. Perhaps IR could be utilised, with ceiling mounted transmitters. IR receiving headphones are very cheap in department stores. Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
