RE: The Lost Hearts and Minds
Gary Denton, disowning responsibility: Mike Lee ignoring the title and head of the post. This is what we have now caused our supporters in Iraq to think. You posted that crap with your full stamp of approval. It's disgusting that you now try to sidestep on that. And worse that nobody else on this list has objected, except to what I said back. -Mike Lee Honest Liberal ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Lost Hearts and Minds
On Sun, 9 May 2004 06:05:17 -0700, Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unappreciated Messiah wrote: Gary Denton, disowning responsibility: Mike Lee ignoring the title and head of the post. This is what we have now caused our supporters in Iraq to think. You posted that crap with your full stamp of approval. It's disgusting that you now try to sidestep on that. And worse that nobody else on this list has objected, except to what I said back. -Mike Lee Honest Liberal We know you are not liberal I will assume you are not honest. That posting is what an intelligent Iragi who had supported our invasion now thinks. What are you objecting to, that Bush and Rumsfeld has failed to win the hearts and minds and turned our supporters against us? I could have posted from a supposedly pro-Bush Iraqi blog except for two things. There has been a suspicion for some time that Iraq the Model is a fake blog produced by someone in the large pr / commuication contingent of contractors in Baghdad. That the latest post is a supposed interview with a doctor who went briefly to the prison at some time for a few weeks at night and says like an old Hogan's Heroes spot I saw nooothing. I will believe our military. As Elizabeth Moon, fantasy and science fiction writer, fellow Texan, and ex-Marine officer wrote recently: And it's going to get worse. At best... at absolute best... we have over six more months of this man and his cohorts: men without honor, men without courage, men without even intelligence. He has already damaged our nation's honor, credibility, economy, and military. We are in a hole that will take some climbing out of, and he's still digging with a steam shovel. The worst thing we could do at this point is turn on the rest of the military... the honorable among them are hurting already, and we need to support them where they are honorable (and kick their butts where they aren't). We need to express our support for *decent* behavior and those who exhibit it, and keep reminding that popinjay in the White House that he has responsibility, not just authority. http://elemming2.blogspot.com Go run home to mama Mike, adults are tired of you. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Trolls etc, was: Re: The Lost Hearts and Minds
Julia Thompson wrote: ... You know, Dan, I don't buy your sock-puppet theory. Please demonstrate conclusively to me that Mr. Lee is, in fact, a sock puppet. Julia How's this? A direct quotation from an old post! See!? It proves... O.K., it doesn't prove anything. I don't think this kind of thing is amenable to proof at all, one way or the other. The post is below, for what it's worth. ---David Who has quit conversing with trolls, sock-puppets and so on. Original Message Subject: RE: [ADMIN] Pseudonymous postings from the Netherlands Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:30:51 -0700 From: Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ok, we confess. John Doe and Mike Lee are the same person. Well, we're two personalities of the same person. If you ban us from this list, we will sue you under ADA. If you think it's hard listening to us fight, you ought to have to be in the bathroom in the morning with us. You're getting off easy. Every morning, I try to make a reasonable argument, but then it always ends up with me trying to hang that sonofabitch from the shower rod. Just when I think I've strung him up this time, I pass out and wake up with my head half in the toilet. Still, somehow, I always make it to work on time. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The Lost Hearts and Minds
Baghdad Burning is a blog from an interesting intelligent woman living in Baghdad. She hated Saddam and supported the US coming in and kicking him out. Lately she has been changing her mind. I've edited some of her thoughts today: I don't understand the 'shock' Americans claim to feel at the lurid pictures. You've seen the troops break down doors and terrify women and children. curse, scream, push, pull and throw people to the ground with a boot over their head. You've seen troops shoot civilians in cold blood. You've seen them bomb cities and towns. You've seen them burn cars and humans using tanks and helicopters. Is this latest debacle so very shocking or appalling? The number of killings in the south has also risen. The Americans and British are saying that they are 'insurgents' and people who are a part of Al-Sadir's militia, but people from Najaf are claiming that innocent civilians are being killed on a daily basis. Today the troops entered Najaf and there was fighting in the streets. This is going to cause a commotion because Najaf is considered a holy city and is especially valuable to Shi'a all over the world. The current situation in the south makes one wonder who, now, is going to implement a no-fly zone over areas like Falloojeh and Najaf to 'protect' the people this time around? I sometimes get emails asking me to propose solutions or make suggestions. Fine. Today's lesson: don't rape, don't torture, don't kill and get out while you can- while it still looks like you have a choice... Chaos? Civil war? Bloodshed? We'll take our chances- just take your Puppets, your tanks, your smart weapons, your dumb politicians, your lies, your empty promises, your rapists, your sadistic torturers and go. There was a time when people here felt sorry for the troops. No matter what one's attitude was towards the occupation, there were moments of pity towards the troops, regardless of their nationality. We would see them suffering the Iraqi sun, obviously wishing they were somewhere else and somehow, that vulnerability made them seem less monstrous and more human. That time has passed. People look at troops now and see the pictures of Abu Ghraib and we burn with shame and anger and frustration at not being able to do something. Now that the world knows that the torture has been going on since the very beginning, do people finally understand what happened in Falloojeh? And through all this, Bush gives his repulsive speeches. He makes an appearance on Arabic tv channels looking sheepish and attempting to look sincere, babbling on about how this 'incident' wasn't representative of the American people or even the army, regardless of the fact that it's been going on for so long. He asks Iraqis to not let these pictures reflect on their attitude towards the American people and yet when the bodies were dragged through the streets of Falloojeh, the American troops took it upon themselves to punish the whole city. Just Go. http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The Lost Hearts and Minds
Gary Denton, showing his true colors: I don't understand the 'shock' Americans claim to feel at the lurid pictures. You've seen the troops break down doors and terrify women and children. curse, scream, push, pull and throw people to the ground with a boot over their head. You've seen troops shoot civilians in cold blood. You've seen them bomb cities and towns. You've seen them burn cars and humans using tanks and helicopters. Is this latest debacle so very shocking or appalling? snip There was a time when people here felt sorry for the troops. No matter what one's attitude was towards the occupation, there were moments of pity towards the troops, regardless of their nationality. We would see them suffering the Iraqi sun, obviously wishing they were somewhere else and somehow, that vulnerability made them seem less monstrous and more human. That time has passed. People look at troops now and see the pictures of Abu Ghraib. and we burn with shame and anger and frustration at not being able to do something. Now that the world knows that the torture has been going on since the very beginning, do people finally understand what happened in Falloojeh? And through all this, Bush gives his repulsive speeches. He makes an appearance on Arabic tv channels looking sheepish and attempting to look sincere, babbling on about how this 'incident' wasn't representative of the American people or even the army, regardless of the fact that it's been going on for so long. He asks Iraqis to not let these pictures reflect on their attitude towards the American people. and yet when the bodies were dragged through the streets of Falloojeh, the American troops took it upon themselves to punish the whole city. You don't know very many people in the military, do you? I don't expect anyone on this list, except the one or two reviled conservatives, to recoil or denounce this. Prove me wrong. Gary Denton hates America, hates Western civilization, doesn't even genuflect to the ridiculous fiction of supporting the troops. There's a clear choice in November: Bush/Cheney or Kerry/Denton. Denton just said that the burned and mutilated bodies of some Americans in Fallujah were less offensive than some dumbitch from West Virginia pointing and laughing at some terrorist's dick. We must understand and feel guilty for being the cause of our own murder and mutilation, according to Gary. Fallujah still stands, and our forbearance means nothing to Gary. He can't tell the difference between feeding someone into a woodchipper and leading a prisoner around on a leash. Yeah, America blew it. We did bad things and didn't supervise sufficiently. We may even have killed a couple dozen people for no reason. Does the phrase orders of magnitude ring a bell? I'm done talking to Gary. I may be done talking to the rest of you. I've listened to your all your faux bitching about me not being nice to you when you've come to expect everyone to be nice to you no matter how stupid what you say is. It's been entertaining, I'll say that. I love plinking stupid people in the forehead. But Gary has gone way over the line. I can't wait to see what y'all will say now. I don't expect much, so surprise me, prove you're not just a cozy coterie of moral dilettantes. Mike Lee Liberal Patriot ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Lost Hearts and Minds
- Original Message - From: Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 4:43 PM Subject: RE: The Lost Hearts and Minds I'm done talking to Gary. I may be done talking to the rest of you. Yea, it probably is time to package this sock puppet and put him away for good. It should be easy, since you're an expert on packaging and all. :-) Dan M. --- - ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Lost Hearts and Minds
Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 4:43 PM Subject: RE: The Lost Hearts and Minds I'm done talking to Gary. I may be done talking to the rest of you. Yea, it probably is time to package this sock puppet and put him away for good. It should be easy, since you're an expert on packaging and all. :-) Dan M. You know, Dan, I don't buy your sock-puppet theory. Please demonstrate conclusively to me that Mr. Lee is, in fact, a sock puppet. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Lost Hearts and Minds
Mike Lee wrote: But Gary has gone way over the line. I can't wait to see what y'all will say now. I don't expect much, so surprise me, prove you're not just a cozy coterie of moral dilettantes. I don't really give a rat's ass what the dick-hat thinks about Gary but in case other's comprehension is as poor as his is I'd like to point out that Gary didn't write the quoted material. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Lost Hearts and Minds
On Sat, 8 May 2004 14:43:28 -0700, Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Lee ignoring the title and head of the post. This is what we have now caused our supporters in Iraq to think. You don't know very many people in the military, do you? My nephew is a ranger who just returned from Iraq. Who do you have in the military? But Gary has gone way over the line. I can't wait to see what y'all will say now. I don't expect much, so surprise me, prove you're not just a cozy coterie of moral dilettantes. Mike Lee Liberal Patriot Mike Lee is Non-Liberal Non-Patriot immoral dilettante who can't read. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
