bug#22698: ls output changes considered unacceptable

2016-02-17 Thread Jim Meyering 
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Mike Hodson  wrote:
>>On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 6:45 AM, Bernhard Voelker  
>>wrote:
>>> On 02/16/2016 11:50 AM, Jason A. Donenfeld wrote:
>>> [...] We don't want those single quotes.
>>
>>
>> Who exactly is "we"?
>>
>> I can only speak for myself: I'm don't really care too much about
>> what output format is choosen.
>>
>> Have a nice day,
>> Berny
>>
>
> As part of this community who:
> 1: personally does not not particularly care about how 'ls' output looks
> 2: knows how to change it
> 3: but also knows how many people worldwide do not like such change,
> or may not appreciate the subtleties of the change, or know
> immediately how to change it if their linux distro hasn't already
> 'worked around this usability issue',
>
> I decided to take 10 minutes of my time to correlate a list of just
> who the "we" is:
>
> http://www.eenyhelp.com/bug-813164-fact-dangerous-help-215955262.html
> http://osdir.com/ml/general/2016-02/msg21069.html
> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/457ptk/ls_default_to_quotingshellescape_for_output_to/
> http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/258679/why-is-ls-suddenly-surrounding-items-with-spaces-in-single-quotes
> http://linuxmd.net/forum/komandnaya-stroka-terminal/261-gnu-coreutils-8-25-ne-tak-strashen-kak-kazhetsya
> https://github.com/thestinger/termite/issues/293
> https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/msg1394230.html
> 'revert'
> https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/msg1394231.html
> 'ls -N not a solution'

Thanks for the summary.
However, bear in mind that many many people objected
to systemd, too, to the point of sending death threats to
its author. Many more people recognized that systemd is
great, yet did not send email -- and all major distros
have converted.

bug#22696: ls output changes considered unacceptable

2016-02-17 Thread Mike Hodson 
>On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 6:45 AM, Bernhard Voelker  
>wrote:
>> On 02/16/2016 11:50 AM, Jason A. Donenfeld wrote:
>> [...] We don't want those single quotes.
>
>
> Who exactly is "we"?
>
> I can only speak for myself: I'm don't really care too much about
> what output format is choosen.
>
> Have a nice day,
> Berny
>

As part of this community who:
1: personally does not not particularly care about how 'ls' output looks
2: knows how to change it
3: but also knows how many people worldwide do not like such change,
or may not appreciate the subtleties of the change, or know
immediately how to change it if their linux distro hasn't already
'worked around this usability issue',

I decided to take 10 minutes of my time to correlate a list of just
who the "we" is:

http://www.eenyhelp.com/bug-813164-fact-dangerous-help-215955262.html
http://osdir.com/ml/general/2016-02/msg21069.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/457ptk/ls_default_to_quotingshellescape_for_output_to/
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/258679/why-is-ls-suddenly-surrounding-items-with-spaces-in-single-quotes
http://linuxmd.net/forum/komandnaya-stroka-terminal/261-gnu-coreutils-8-25-ne-tak-strashen-kak-kazhetsya
https://github.com/thestinger/termite/issues/293
https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/msg1394230.html
'revert'
https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/msg1394231.html
'ls -N not a solution'

Mike

bug#22696: ls output changes considered unacceptable

2016-02-17 Thread isabella parakiss 
On 2/17/16, Mike Frysinger  wrote:
> On 17 Feb 2016 01:41, isabella parakiss wrote:
>> On 2/17/16, Ruediger Meier  wrote:
>> > As already said in practice it is already configurable by different
>> > kind
>> > of distro-specific techniques or shell aliases. For example openSUSE
>> > has envvar LS_OPTIONS. Maybe we could support such LS_OPTIONS variable
>> > officially.
>>
>> Please no.
>> It's painful to write a script that has to fight its environment to use
>> tools with their default behaviour.
>> Fighting against GREP_OPTIONS is already extremely annoying.
>
> it's already done -- export QUOTING_STYLE to control default behavior

I wasn't aware of that, and it's been there since 1998, damn.
Thanks for letting me know.  It's only in info, not even in the man page
(unlike grep) and also pretty hard to find on the web...

> people should generally be avoiding ls in scripting anyways ...
> there is `find` and shell globs to cover most cases.

ls -l filename is still the only portable way to obtain owner, group,
mode etc.  Good thing QUOTING_STYLE doesn't affect that.


---
xoxo iza