Re: Looking into creating a Native Client port of GnuChess

[Matthew Ball]

Hi Simon:

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Simon Waters wrote:

>
> As mentioned previously the CVS repos is labelled for 5.0.8, so feel
> free to update "HEAD" to the latest version you have as soon as you like.
>
> I've long ago switched to trying only to code in source code management,
> and trying to implement only one change between check-ins (although
> occasionally I'll fix a few minor things and then have to check those in
> separately). I started doing this when working with change management
> tools designed to support multiple variants of the same software, and
> found the discipline made me much more productive and focused when coding.
>

I guess I'm a relative CVS noobie, and am having trouble figuring out how to
update to the 'HEAD' version.

I'm looking at the repository information here:

http://savannah.gnu.org/cvs/?group_id=134

>From using the repository information on this page, I just get a checkout
that has the 5.08 source code.  When I use the source code browser and set
the sticky tag to 'HEAD', I still don't see the latest changes (see
http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/?root=chess).

Is there some trick that I'm missing?  What's the command-line that I would
use to get the latest CVS version?

Thanks!
-Matt
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Re: Looking into creating a Native Client port of GnuChess

[Antonio Ceballos]

Hi Matthew,

You are probably doing it the right way. I have not updated HEAD yet, that's
why you couldn't check v6 out. :-)

We are just having an internal discussion regarding v6. We will announce it
as soon as it is available.

Cheers,
Antonio


On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Matthew Ball  wrote:

> Hi Simon:
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Simon Waters wrote:
>
>>
>> As mentioned previously the CVS repos is labelled for 5.0.8, so feel
>> free to update "HEAD" to the latest version you have as soon as you like.
>>
>> I've long ago switched to trying only to code in source code management,
>> and trying to implement only one change between check-ins (although
>> occasionally I'll fix a few minor things and then have to check those in
>> separately). I started doing this when working with change management
>> tools designed to support multiple variants of the same software, and
>> found the discipline made me much more productive and focused when coding.
>>
>
> I guess I'm a relative CVS noobie, and am having trouble figuring out how
> to update to the 'HEAD' version.
>
> I'm looking at the repository information here:
>
> http://savannah.gnu.org/cvs/?group_id=134
>
> From using the repository information on this page, I just get a checkout
> that has the 5.08 source code.  When I use the source code browser and set
> the sticky tag to 'HEAD', I still don't see the latest changes (see
> http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/?root=chess).
>
> Is there some trick that I'm missing?  What's the command-line that I would
> use to get the latest CVS version?
>
> Thanks!
> -Matt
>
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Re: Looking into creating a Native Client port of GnuChess

[Simon Waters]

On 06/04/11 15:12, Matthew Ball wrote:
> 
> Maybe it would be possible to get setup on Savannah with git?

I have no opinion either way.

> Also, I don't think that you have to wait for a release before updating
> the repository with v6 code.

As mentioned previously the CVS repos is labelled for 5.0.8, so feel
free to update "HEAD" to the latest version you have as soon as you like.

I've long ago switched to trying only to code in source code management,
and trying to implement only one change between check-ins (although
occasionally I'll fix a few minor things and then have to check those in
separately). I started doing this when working with change management
tools designed to support multiple variants of the same software, and
found the discipline made me much more productive and focused when coding.

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Re: Looking into creating a Native Client port of GnuChess

[Matthew Ball]

Hi Antonio,

See below:

Cheers,
-Matt

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Antonio Ceballos wrote:

> Hi Matthew,
>
> Thanks for your interest and suggestions.
>
> The CVS repository has not been moved. We will get it up to date when we
> upload the official v6.
>

This might be a good opportunity to upgrade from CVS to git.  I've done the
conversion and have posted the equivalent git repository over at github
here: https://github.com/heisencoder/gnuchess

I did it right this time and actually converted the entire CVS repository,
instead of just taking the released tarballs and checking them in like I did
last time.

Maybe it would be possible to get setup on Savannah with git?

Also, I don't think that you have to wait for a release before updating the
repository with v6 code.


>
> Your suggestion---not requiring the .ini file---makes sense. Getting rid of
> the requirement seems easy, but I must check that the default values are
> reasonable. We will consider to include this feature in v6.
>

Since there are systems that don't have file access (like the current
instantiation of Native Client), I think having a version that has no I/O
dependency would be useful.


> By the way, I expect to announce v6 soon.
>

Cool!


> Cheers,
> --Antonio
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Matthew Ball  wrote:
>
>> Hi Antonio,
>>
>> See below:
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 12:13 AM, Antonio Ceballos wrote:
>>
>>> >Do this mean that there will be a gnuchess version 6 coming at some
>>> point?
>>>
>>> Yes, there is already an alpha version. You can get it from:
>>>
>>> gnuchess-5.9.91.tar.gz
>>>
>>>
>> I was looking at the CVS repository, and noticed that there have been no
>> check-ins since version 5.08.  Has the development repository moved
>> somewhere else?
>>
>> As a general comment, I'm very happy to see that gnuchess has been
>> factored into three separate libraries.  To compile this for Native Client,
>> I had to redefine printf and fprintf, so this refactoring will help make it
>> easier to isolate the printfs.
>>
>>
>>> The first official release of v6 is expected in some weeks.
>>>
>>> As far as dependency on file I/O is concerned, GNU Chess v6 also uses a
>>> book (optional) and a configuration file (mandatory, as of today). Like v5,
>>> it can use additional files for debugging and game storage.
>>>
>>
>> I've downloaded the new gnuchess 5.9 and have given it a brief test run on
>> my macbook.  I noticed that when I first run it, I get an error that there
>> isn't a particular .ini file.  Is there a way that we can make gnuchess
>> behave like it used to and not need any ini to start (that is, can we have
>> essentially a hard-coded default configuration that is compiled into
>> gnuchess?  I think this would be a useful change before 6.0.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> --Antonio Ceballos
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Matthew Ball  wrote:
>>>


 On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Simon Waters >>> > wrote:

>
> I don't think there is a lot of dependency on file I/O in the GNU Chess
> 5.08 code base. Opening book code is the main one (which for most
> opponents can simply be omitted - which you can find in the code as
> there is a "book off" option that uses a flag throughout to do the
> right
> thing).
>

 I was able to successfully do an initial compile and run it with the
 Native Client sel_ldr tool (which allows for running a command-line
 version).  I didn't need to do anything with the file I/O, although I had 
 to
 run without any opening book.  Similar projects have used a technique where
 they hard-code the file as a C-language data structure and just directly
 access that as though it were a file.  Eventually we should have

>
> We have moved our attention to a code base derived from Fabien's Fruit
> chess engine.
>
> Do this mean that there will be a gnuchess version 6 coming at some
 point?


> You probably want to focus on the Winboard/Xboard chess interface
> aspect
> as in that mode the code should flush standard out, and talk a
> (reasonably) well defined chess language which would make using the JS
> front end with other chess engines in future a lot easier.
>
> I agree that using the xboard interface is a smart move.


> Main dependency headache I can imagine is the code using threading for
> move input. You can probably find the version before that in the
> changelog, but a lot of changes have happened since that was
> implemented, but it might be side-steppable if that is an issue.
>
> I think I probably ran into some threading issues on my initial
 attempt.  gnuchess worked, but it didn't search very deep at all.  A normal
 build of gnuchess works for maybe 5 seconds per move, but the Native Client
 build essentially moved instantly...

Re: Looking into creating a Native Client port of GnuChess

[Antonio Ceballos]

Hi Matthew,

Thanks for your interest and suggestions.

The CVS repository has not been moved. We will get it up to date when we
upload the official v6.

Your suggestion---not requiring the .ini file---makes sense. Getting rid of
the requirement seems easy, but I must check that the default values are
reasonable. We will consider to include this feature in v6.

By the way, I expect to announce v6 soon.

Cheers,
--Antonio


On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Matthew Ball  wrote:

> Hi Antonio,
>
> See below:
>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 12:13 AM, Antonio Ceballos wrote:
>
>> >Do this mean that there will be a gnuchess version 6 coming at some
>> point?
>>
>> Yes, there is already an alpha version. You can get it from:
>>
>> gnuchess-5.9.91.tar.gz
>>
>>
> I was looking at the CVS repository, and noticed that there have been no
> check-ins since version 5.08.  Has the development repository moved
> somewhere else?
>
> As a general comment, I'm very happy to see that gnuchess has been factored
> into three separate libraries.  To compile this for Native Client, I had to
> redefine printf and fprintf, so this refactoring will help make it easier to
> isolate the printfs.
>
>
>> The first official release of v6 is expected in some weeks.
>>
>> As far as dependency on file I/O is concerned, GNU Chess v6 also uses a
>> book (optional) and a configuration file (mandatory, as of today). Like v5,
>> it can use additional files for debugging and game storage.
>>
>
> I've downloaded the new gnuchess 5.9 and have given it a brief test run on
> my macbook.  I noticed that when I first run it, I get an error that there
> isn't a particular .ini file.  Is there a way that we can make gnuchess
> behave like it used to and not need any ini to start (that is, can we have
> essentially a hard-coded default configuration that is compiled into
> gnuchess?  I think this would be a useful change before 6.0.
>
>
>
>> Cheers,
>> --Antonio Ceballos
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Matthew Ball  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Simon Waters 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 I don't think there is a lot of dependency on file I/O in the GNU Chess
 5.08 code base. Opening book code is the main one (which for most
 opponents can simply be omitted - which you can find in the code as
 there is a "book off" option that uses a flag throughout to do the right
 thing).

>>>
>>> I was able to successfully do an initial compile and run it with the
>>> Native Client sel_ldr tool (which allows for running a command-line
>>> version).  I didn't need to do anything with the file I/O, although I had to
>>> run without any opening book.  Similar projects have used a technique where
>>> they hard-code the file as a C-language data structure and just directly
>>> access that as though it were a file.  Eventually we should have
>>>

 We have moved our attention to a code base derived from Fabien's Fruit
 chess engine.

 Do this mean that there will be a gnuchess version 6 coming at some
>>> point?
>>>
>>>
 You probably want to focus on the Winboard/Xboard chess interface aspect
 as in that mode the code should flush standard out, and talk a
 (reasonably) well defined chess language which would make using the JS
 front end with other chess engines in future a lot easier.

 I agree that using the xboard interface is a smart move.
>>>
>>>
 Main dependency headache I can imagine is the code using threading for
 move input. You can probably find the version before that in the
 changelog, but a lot of changes have happened since that was
 implemented, but it might be side-steppable if that is an issue.

 I think I probably ran into some threading issues on my initial attempt.
>>>  gnuchess worked, but it didn't search very deep at all.  A normal build of
>>> gnuchess works for maybe 5 seconds per move, but the Native Client build
>>> essentially moved instantly...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Matt
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Bug-gnu-chess@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnu-chess
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: Looking into creating a Native Client port of GnuChess

[Matthew Ball]

Hi Antonio,

See below:

On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 12:13 AM, Antonio Ceballos wrote:

> >Do this mean that there will be a gnuchess version 6 coming at some point?
>
> Yes, there is already an alpha version. You can get it from:
>
> gnuchess-5.9.91.tar.gz
>
>
I was looking at the CVS repository, and noticed that there have been no
check-ins since version 5.08.  Has the development repository moved
somewhere else?

As a general comment, I'm very happy to see that gnuchess has been factored
into three separate libraries.  To compile this for Native Client, I had to
redefine printf and fprintf, so this refactoring will help make it easier to
isolate the printfs.


> The first official release of v6 is expected in some weeks.
>
> As far as dependency on file I/O is concerned, GNU Chess v6 also uses a
> book (optional) and a configuration file (mandatory, as of today). Like v5,
> it can use additional files for debugging and game storage.
>

I've downloaded the new gnuchess 5.9 and have given it a brief test run on
my macbook.  I noticed that when I first run it, I get an error that there
isn't a particular .ini file.  Is there a way that we can make gnuchess
behave like it used to and not need any ini to start (that is, can we have
essentially a hard-coded default configuration that is compiled into
gnuchess?  I think this would be a useful change before 6.0.



> Cheers,
> --Antonio Ceballos
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Matthew Ball  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Simon Waters 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I don't think there is a lot of dependency on file I/O in the GNU Chess
>>> 5.08 code base. Opening book code is the main one (which for most
>>> opponents can simply be omitted - which you can find in the code as
>>> there is a "book off" option that uses a flag throughout to do the right
>>> thing).
>>>
>>
>> I was able to successfully do an initial compile and run it with the
>> Native Client sel_ldr tool (which allows for running a command-line
>> version).  I didn't need to do anything with the file I/O, although I had to
>> run without any opening book.  Similar projects have used a technique where
>> they hard-code the file as a C-language data structure and just directly
>> access that as though it were a file.  Eventually we should have
>>
>>>
>>> We have moved our attention to a code base derived from Fabien's Fruit
>>> chess engine.
>>>
>>> Do this mean that there will be a gnuchess version 6 coming at some
>> point?
>>
>>
>>> You probably want to focus on the Winboard/Xboard chess interface aspect
>>> as in that mode the code should flush standard out, and talk a
>>> (reasonably) well defined chess language which would make using the JS
>>> front end with other chess engines in future a lot easier.
>>>
>>> I agree that using the xboard interface is a smart move.
>>
>>
>>> Main dependency headache I can imagine is the code using threading for
>>> move input. You can probably find the version before that in the
>>> changelog, but a lot of changes have happened since that was
>>> implemented, but it might be side-steppable if that is an issue.
>>>
>>> I think I probably ran into some threading issues on my initial attempt.
>>  gnuchess worked, but it didn't search very deep at all.  A normal build of
>> gnuchess works for maybe 5 seconds per move, but the Native Client build
>> essentially moved instantly...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Matt
>>
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>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnu-chess
>>
>>
>
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Re: Looking into creating a Native Client port of GnuChess

[Antonio Ceballos]

>Do this mean that there will be a gnuchess version 6 coming at some point?

Yes, there is already an alpha version. You can get it from:

gnuchess-5.9.91.tar.gz

The first official release of v6 is expected in some weeks.

As far as dependency on file I/O is concerned, GNU Chess v6 also uses a book
(optional) and a configuration file (mandatory, as of today). Like v5, it
can use additional files for debugging and game storage.

Cheers,
--Antonio Ceballos


On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Matthew Ball  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Simon Waters wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't think there is a lot of dependency on file I/O in the GNU Chess
>> 5.08 code base. Opening book code is the main one (which for most
>> opponents can simply be omitted - which you can find in the code as
>> there is a "book off" option that uses a flag throughout to do the right
>> thing).
>>
>
> I was able to successfully do an initial compile and run it with the Native
> Client sel_ldr tool (which allows for running a command-line version).  I
> didn't need to do anything with the file I/O, although I had to run without
> any opening book.  Similar projects have used a technique where they
> hard-code the file as a C-language data structure and just directly access
> that as though it were a file.  Eventually we should have
>
>>
>> We have moved our attention to a code base derived from Fabien's Fruit
>> chess engine.
>>
>> Do this mean that there will be a gnuchess version 6 coming at some point?
>
>
>> You probably want to focus on the Winboard/Xboard chess interface aspect
>> as in that mode the code should flush standard out, and talk a
>> (reasonably) well defined chess language which would make using the JS
>> front end with other chess engines in future a lot easier.
>>
>> I agree that using the xboard interface is a smart move.
>
>
>> Main dependency headache I can imagine is the code using threading for
>> move input. You can probably find the version before that in the
>> changelog, but a lot of changes have happened since that was
>> implemented, but it might be side-steppable if that is an issue.
>>
>> I think I probably ran into some threading issues on my initial attempt.
>  gnuchess worked, but it didn't search very deep at all.  A normal build of
> gnuchess works for maybe 5 seconds per move, but the Native Client build
> essentially moved instantly...
>
> Cheers,
> -Matt
>
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>
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Re: Looking into creating a Native Client port of GnuChess

[Matthew Ball]

On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 12:13 AM, Antonio Ceballos wrote:

> >Do this mean that there will be a gnuchess version 6 coming at some point?
>
> Yes, there is already an alpha version. You can get it from:
>
> gnuchess-5.9.91.tar.gz
>
> The first official release of v6 is expected in some weeks.
>

Cool!

>
> As far as dependency on file I/O is concerned, GNU Chess v6 also uses a
> book (optional) and a configuration file (mandatory, as of today). Like v5,
> it can use additional files for debugging and game storage.
>
> Would it be possible (without too much) to have a build that has a default
configuration hard-coded, with no dependence on an outside configuration
file?
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Re: Looking into creating a Native Client port of GnuChess

[Matthew Ball]

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Simon Waters wrote:

>
> I don't think there is a lot of dependency on file I/O in the GNU Chess
> 5.08 code base. Opening book code is the main one (which for most
> opponents can simply be omitted - which you can find in the code as
> there is a "book off" option that uses a flag throughout to do the right
> thing).
>

I was able to successfully do an initial compile and run it with the Native
Client sel_ldr tool (which allows for running a command-line version).  I
didn't need to do anything with the file I/O, although I had to run without
any opening book.  Similar projects have used a technique where they
hard-code the file as a C-language data structure and just directly access
that as though it were a file.  Eventually we should have

>
> We have moved our attention to a code base derived from Fabien's Fruit
> chess engine.
>
> Do this mean that there will be a gnuchess version 6 coming at some point?


> You probably want to focus on the Winboard/Xboard chess interface aspect
> as in that mode the code should flush standard out, and talk a
> (reasonably) well defined chess language which would make using the JS
> front end with other chess engines in future a lot easier.
>
> I agree that using the xboard interface is a smart move.


> Main dependency headache I can imagine is the code using threading for
> move input. You can probably find the version before that in the
> changelog, but a lot of changes have happened since that was
> implemented, but it might be side-steppable if that is an issue.
>
> I think I probably ran into some threading issues on my initial attempt.
 gnuchess worked, but it didn't search very deep at all.  A normal build of
gnuchess works for maybe 5 seconds per move, but the Native Client build
essentially moved instantly...

Cheers,
-Matt
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Re: Looking into creating a Native Client port of GnuChess

[Simon Waters]

On 25/02/11 14:37, Matthew Ball wrote:
> 
> I wanted to let you all know that I've created a clone of GnuChess 5.08
> on github (see https://github.com/heisencoder/gnuchess) and am
> investigating the feasibility of porting this program to Native Client
> (see http://www.chromium.org/nativeclient), or NaCl for short.

Thanks for letting us know.

I don't think there is a lot of dependency on file I/O in the GNU Chess
5.08 code base. Opening book code is the main one (which for most
opponents can simply be omitted - which you can find in the code as
there is a "book off" option that uses a flag throughout to do the right
thing).

We have moved our attention to a code base derived from Fabien's Fruit
chess engine.

You probably want to focus on the Winboard/Xboard chess interface aspect
as in that mode the code should flush standard out, and talk a
(reasonably) well defined chess language which would make using the JS
front end with other chess engines in future a lot easier.

Main dependency headache I can imagine is the code using threading for
move input. You can probably find the version before that in the
changelog, but a lot of changes have happened since that was
implemented, but it might be side-steppable if that is an issue.

 Simon

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