Re: LM Orchestral template

2015-09-23 Thread Trevor Daniels 
Simon Albrecht wrote Wednesday, September 23, 2015 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: LM Orchestral template


> On 23.09.2015 09:53, Phil Holmes wrote:
>>
>>
>> If you use the template locally, the spacings are fine.
> 
> Only if you copy the code displayed. If you click the image in the LM, 
> you get the full code used in producing the example, and compiling that 
> shows the compression.
> 
>>   So it's something to do with the way snippets are compiled: perhaps 
>> a default paper-size setting?
> 
> It’s lilypond-book-preamble.ly which causes the problem, but I don’t 
> understand the mechanism used there. Who would be familiar with this 
> framework, so we may ask him?

This framework was set up years ago, and no one familiar with it is
still active on LP  today.  Graham is probably the best one to ask.  I'll 
copy him in.

@Graham:  The problem is the appearance of this template in the LM,
see:
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/learning/orchestra-choir-and-piano

Trevor
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Re: LM Orchestral template

2015-09-23 Thread Trevor Daniels 
Whoops, used an old email address for Graham.  This is the current one.

Trevor

- Original Message - 
From: "Trevor Daniels" <t.dani...@treda.co.uk>
To: "Phil Holmes" <m...@philholmes.net>; <bug-lilypond@gnu.org>; "Simon 
Albrecht" <simon.albre...@mail.de>
Cc: "Graham Percival" <gper...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: LM Orchestral template


> Simon Albrecht wrote Wednesday, September 23, 2015 10:08 AM
> Subject: Re: LM Orchestral template
> 
> 
>> On 23.09.2015 09:53, Phil Holmes wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> If you use the template locally, the spacings are fine.
>> 
>> Only if you copy the code displayed. If you click the image in the LM, 
>> you get the full code used in producing the example, and compiling that 
>> shows the compression.
>> 
>>>   So it's something to do with the way snippets are compiled: perhaps 
>>> a default paper-size setting?
>> 
>> It’s lilypond-book-preamble.ly which causes the problem, but I don’t 
>> understand the mechanism used there. Who would be familiar with this 
>> framework, so we may ask him?
> 
> This framework was set up years ago, and no one familiar with it is
> still active on LP  today.  Graham is probably the best one to ask.  I'll 
> copy him in.
> 
> @Graham:  The problem is the appearance of this template in the LM,
> see:
> http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/learning/orchestra-choir-and-piano
> 
> Trevor
>
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Re: LM Orchestral template

2015-09-23 Thread Graham Percival 
On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 12:22:51PM +0100, Trevor Daniels wrote:
> > @Graham:  The problem is the appearance of this template in the LM,
> > see:
> > http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/learning/orchestra-choir-and-piano

Sorry, I never delved into the lilypond-book-preamble; I always treated
it as a black box.

My first suggestion is to try adding a [papersize=a3] or something like
that.  Obviously you'll have seen that compiling the full .ly (instead
of only the "Start cut-&-pastable section" [shouldn't that be
"pasteable"?] contains

Drawing systems... 
warning: compressing over-full page by 29.5 staff-spaces

so apparently lilypond decides that the page height is less than it
should be?  a git grep in the code reveals that this warning comes from

lily/page-layout-problem.cc
...
/**
   For ragged-last pages, we usually want to stretch the page so that it
   is not much more compressed than the previous page.  Here, if ragged
   is true and you pass a value of fixed_force that !isinf, then I will
   try to space this page using the given force.  If it does not fit, I
   will resort to just filling the page (non-raggedly).
*/
void
Page_layout_problem::solve_rod_spring_problem (bool ragged, Real
fixed_force)


so maybe playing with various [ragged] options would help?

another idea is to try commenting out bits and pieces of
lilypond-book-preamble.ly until you find the problem-causing line(s).
Start by copying that file into a new directory (along with the
snippet), rename the file (and the \include), then comment away.
Standard "making a minimal snippet" thing.

Sorry I couldn't be more help,
- Graham

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Re: LM Orchestral template

2015-09-23 Thread Simon Albrecht 

On 23.09.2015 09:53, Phil Holmes wrote:



If you use the template locally, the spacings are fine.


Only if you copy the code displayed. If you click the image in the LM, 
you get the full code used in producing the example, and compiling that 
shows the compression.


  So it's something to do with the way snippets are compiled: perhaps 
a default paper-size setting?


It’s lilypond-book-preamble.ly which causes the problem, but I don’t 
understand the mechanism used there. Who would be familiar with this 
framework, so we may ask him?


Yours, Simon

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Re: LM Orchestral template

2015-09-23 Thread Phil Holmes 

"James Lowe"  wrote in message news:5601bfb2.6010...@gnu.org...

On 22/09/15 20:51, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 22.09.2015 21:42, Trevor Daniels wrote:

Simon Albrecht wrote Tuesday, September 22, 2015 7:35 PM


I just came across the Orchestral template in LM A.6.I, and noticed two
flaws, one minor and one serious:
– Double basses usually aren’t notated in a \clef "bass_8", but as
transposing instruments (originating from the time when they were
sharing a staff with the violoncelli). All the scores I have here, from
Beethoven through Mendelssohn, Bruckner and Mahler to Hindemith, 
confirm

this. I attach a version of the template where this is changed.

Thanks


– The image rendition in the docs is extremely compressed, with
overlapping stuff, staves touching one another  This is a really bad
example and needs to be changed; how is this done? I don’t know the
framework in lilypond-book-preamble.ly; certainly there will be someone
who can quickly say how to allow the score more space.
I think for this example all that is needed is to reduce the global 
staff

size, which is set (unusually) in this file to 17.

I’m afraid it won’t be as easy. I also thought that way, but I tried it
(loading the complete source file for the image with \include
"lilypond-book-preamble.ly" etc.) and it doesn’t make a difference:
everything gets smaller, but is compressed and cut the same.



Yes I verified this too.

Well I tried to fiddle about the 'Flexible Vertical Spacing' (NR 4.4.1)

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation-big-page#flexible-vertical-spacing-within-systems

I think a combination of these will help, the problem I have is that I
cannot work out which. :(

I've never got my head around these settings.

James



If you use the template locally, the spacings are fine.  So it's something 
to do with the way snippets are compiled: perhaps a default paper-size 
setting?  The version on the LSR is also badly spaced, so it may be possible 
to experiment with that to correct the version in the docs.


http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=719

--
Phil Holmes



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Re: LM Orchestral template

2015-09-22 Thread Trevor Daniels 

Simon Albrecht wrote Tuesday, September 22, 2015 7:35 PM

> I just came across the Orchestral template in LM A.6.I, and noticed two 
> flaws, one minor and one serious:
> – Double basses usually aren’t notated in a \clef "bass_8", but as 
> transposing instruments (originating from the time when they were 
> sharing a staff with the violoncelli). All the scores I have here, from 
> Beethoven through Mendelssohn, Bruckner and Mahler to Hindemith, confirm 
> this. I attach a version of the template where this is changed.

Thanks

> – The image rendition in the docs is extremely compressed, with 
> overlapping stuff, staves touching one another  This is a really bad 
> example and needs to be changed; how is this done? I don’t know the 
> framework in lilypond-book-preamble.ly; certainly there will be someone 
> who can quickly say how to allow the score more space.

I think for this example all that is needed is to reduce the global staff
size, which is set (unusually) in this file to 17.  I can't easily test this as
it is a pain for me to build the docs, but James might be willing to do
some experiments to choose the optimum staff size.

Trevor
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LM Orchestral template

2015-09-22 Thread Simon Albrecht 

Hello,

I just came across the Orchestral template in LM A.6.I, and noticed two 
flaws, one minor and one serious:
– Double basses usually aren’t notated in a \clef "bass_8", but as 
transposing instruments (originating from the time when they were 
sharing a staff with the violoncelli). All the scores I have here, from 
Beethoven through Mendelssohn, Bruckner and Mahler to Hindemith, confirm 
this. I attach a version of the template where this is changed.
– The image rendition in the docs is extremely compressed, with 
overlapping stuff, staves touching one another  This is a really bad 
example and needs to be changed; how is this done? I don’t know the 
framework in lilypond-book-preamble.ly; certainly there will be someone 
who can quickly say how to allow the score more space.


Yours, Simon
\version "2.19.27"
#(set-global-staff-size 17)
\paper {
  indent = 3.0\cm  % space for instrumentName
  short-indent = 1.5\cm  % space for shortInstrumentName
}

fluteMusic = \relative c' { \key g \major g'1 b }
% Pitches as written on a manuscript for Clarinet in A
% are transposed to concert pitch.
clarinetMusic = \transpose c' a
  \relative c'' { \key bes \major bes1 d }
trumpetMusic = \relative c { \key g \major g''1 b }
% Key signature is often omitted for horns
hornMusic = \transpose c' f
  \relative c { d'1 fis }
percussionMusic = \relative c { \key g \major g1 b }
sopranoMusic = \relative c'' { \key g \major g'1 b }
sopranoLyrics = \lyricmode { Lyr -- ics }
altoIMusic = \relative c' { \key g \major g'1 b }
altoIIMusic = \relative c' { \key g \major g'1 b }
altoILyrics =  \sopranoLyrics
altoIILyrics = \lyricmode { Ah -- ah }
tenorMusic = \relative c' { \clef "treble_8" \key g \major g1 b }
tenorLyrics = \sopranoLyrics
pianoRHMusic = \relative c { \key g \major g''1 b }
pianoLHMusic = \relative c { \clef bass \key g \major g1 b }
violinIMusic = \relative c' { \key g \major g'1 b }
violinIIMusic = \relative c' { \key g \major g'1 b }
violaMusic = \relative c { \clef alto \key g \major g'1 b }
celloMusic = \relative c { \clef bass \key g \major g1 b }
bassMusic = \transpose c c,
  \relative c { \clef bass \key g \major g1 b }

\score {
  <<
\new StaffGroup = "StaffGroup_woodwinds" <<
  \new Staff = "Staff_flute" {
\set Staff.instrumentName = #"Flute"
% shortInstrumentName, midiInstrument, etc.
% may be set here as well
\fluteMusic
  }
  \new Staff = "Staff_clarinet" {
\set Staff.instrumentName =
\markup { \concat { "Clarinet in B" \flat } }
% Declare that written Middle C in the music
%  to follow sounds a concert B flat, for
%  output using sounded pitches such as MIDI.
\transposition bes
% Print music for a B-flat clarinet
\transpose bes c' \clarinetMusic
  }
>>
\new StaffGroup = "StaffGroup_brass" <<
  \new Staff = "Staff_hornI" {
\set Staff.instrumentName = #"Horn in F"
\transposition f
\transpose f c' \hornMusic
  }
  \new Staff = "Staff_trumpet" {
\set Staff.instrumentName = #"Trumpet in  C"
\trumpetMusic
  }
>>
\new RhythmicStaff = "RhythmicStaff_percussion" <<
  \set RhythmicStaff.instrumentName = #"Percussion"
  \percussionMusic
>>
\new PianoStaff <<
  \set PianoStaff.instrumentName = #"Piano"
  \new Staff { \pianoRHMusic }
  \new Staff { \pianoLHMusic }
>>
\new ChoirStaff = "ChoirStaff_choir" <<
  \new Staff = "Staff_soprano" {
\set Staff.instrumentName = #"Soprano"
\new Voice = "soprano"
\sopranoMusic
  }
  \new Lyrics \lyricsto "soprano" { \sopranoLyrics }
  \new GrandStaff = "GrandStaff_altos"
  \with { \accepts Lyrics } <<
\new Staff = "Staff_altoI"  {
  \set Staff.instrumentName = #"Alto I"
  \new Voice = "altoI"
  \altoIMusic
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "altoI" { \altoILyrics }
\new Staff = "Staff_altoII" {
  \set Staff.instrumentName = #"Alto II"
  \new Voice = "altoII"
  \altoIIMusic
}
\new Lyrics \lyricsto "altoII" { \altoIILyrics }
  >>
  \new Staff = "Staff_tenor" {
\set Staff.instrumentName = #"Tenor"
\new Voice = "tenor"
\tenorMusic
  }
  \new Lyrics \lyricsto "tenor" { \tenorLyrics }
>>
\new StaffGroup = "StaffGroup_strings" <<
  \new GrandStaff = "GrandStaff_violins" <<
\new Staff = "Staff_violinI" {
  \set Staff.instrumentName = #"Violin I"
  \violinIMusic
}
\new Staff = "Staff_violinII" {
  \set Staff.instrumentName = #"Violin II"
  \violinIIMusic
}
  >>
  \new Staff = "Staff_viola" {
\set Staff.instrumentName = #"Viola"
\violaMusic
  }
  \new Staff = "Staff_cello" {
\set Staff.instrumentName = #"Cello"
\celloMusic
  }
  \new Staff = "Staff_bass" {

Re: LM Orchestral template

2015-09-22 Thread Simon Albrecht 

On 22.09.2015 21:42, Trevor Daniels wrote:

Simon Albrecht wrote Tuesday, September 22, 2015 7:35 PM


I just came across the Orchestral template in LM A.6.I, and noticed two
flaws, one minor and one serious:
– Double basses usually aren’t notated in a \clef "bass_8", but as
transposing instruments (originating from the time when they were
sharing a staff with the violoncelli). All the scores I have here, from
Beethoven through Mendelssohn, Bruckner and Mahler to Hindemith, confirm
this. I attach a version of the template where this is changed.

Thanks


– The image rendition in the docs is extremely compressed, with
overlapping stuff, staves touching one another  This is a really bad
example and needs to be changed; how is this done? I don’t know the
framework in lilypond-book-preamble.ly; certainly there will be someone
who can quickly say how to allow the score more space.

I think for this example all that is needed is to reduce the global staff
size, which is set (unusually) in this file to 17.
I’m afraid it won’t be as easy. I also thought that way, but I tried it 
(loading the complete source file for the image with \include 
"lilypond-book-preamble.ly" etc.) and it doesn’t make a difference: 
everything gets smaller, but is compressed and cut the same.


Yours, Simon

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Re: LM Orchestral template

2015-09-22 Thread James Lowe 
On 22/09/15 20:51, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> On 22.09.2015 21:42, Trevor Daniels wrote:
>> Simon Albrecht wrote Tuesday, September 22, 2015 7:35 PM
>>
>>> I just came across the Orchestral template in LM A.6.I, and noticed two
>>> flaws, one minor and one serious:
>>> – Double basses usually aren’t notated in a \clef "bass_8", but as
>>> transposing instruments (originating from the time when they were
>>> sharing a staff with the violoncelli). All the scores I have here, from
>>> Beethoven through Mendelssohn, Bruckner and Mahler to Hindemith, confirm
>>> this. I attach a version of the template where this is changed.
>> Thanks
>>
>>> – The image rendition in the docs is extremely compressed, with
>>> overlapping stuff, staves touching one another  This is a really bad
>>> example and needs to be changed; how is this done? I don’t know the
>>> framework in lilypond-book-preamble.ly; certainly there will be someone
>>> who can quickly say how to allow the score more space.
>> I think for this example all that is needed is to reduce the global staff
>> size, which is set (unusually) in this file to 17.
> I’m afraid it won’t be as easy. I also thought that way, but I tried it
> (loading the complete source file for the image with \include
> "lilypond-book-preamble.ly" etc.) and it doesn’t make a difference:
> everything gets smaller, but is compressed and cut the same.
> 

Yes I verified this too.

Well I tried to fiddle about the 'Flexible Vertical Spacing' (NR 4.4.1)

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation-big-page#flexible-vertical-spacing-within-systems

I think a combination of these will help, the problem I have is that I
cannot work out which. :(

I've never got my head around these settings.

James

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