General questions on IMAP Keywords (was Re: Help Running UW-IMAPD Under Cygwin)
Ah, I believe that's exactly what I'm looking for. Now I'm wondering what clients support IMAP keywords (the only one I currently know of is Pine). Also, for those that don't support it (AFAIK, this includes mutt and TBird), are there any workarounds (e.g., making these collections of keywords appear to the client as a collection of traditional folders)? Lastly, is there a standardized naming scheme for IMAP keywords? In particular, I'm wondering how hierarchies of keywords are represented (e.g., "/Friends/" and "/Friends/Joe Schmoe/")? And can these have keyword strings contain spaces in them? Thus spake Mark Crispin on 10/7/2004 10:42 AM: On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, overbored wrote: Let's say I sort all my mail from a mailing list to one folder, and all my mail from friends to another. If I get a message from my friend sent to both me and the folder, I would like for it to show up in both folders. Instead of using separate mailboxes (there is no such thing as "folder" in IMAP), perhaps you may want to use IMAP keywords? -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Re: Help Running UW-IMAPD Under Cygwin
On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, overbored wrote: Let's say I sort all my mail from a mailing list to one folder, and all my mail from friends to another. If I get a message from my friend sent to both me and the folder, I would like for it to show up in both folders. Instead of using separate mailboxes (there is no such thing as "folder" in IMAP), perhaps you may want to use IMAP keywords? -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Re: Help Running UW-IMAPD Under Cygwin
Another idea (aside from attributes) is that maybe the server can make
use of symbolic links to the email messages (at least for servers that
use Maildirs).
Thus spake overbored on 10/7/2004 12:46 AM:
It's basically a different way of organizing email, different from the
concept of folders (mailboxes/directories).
Let's say I sort all my mail from a mailing list to one folder, and all
my mail from friends to another. If I get a message from my friend sent
to both me and the folder, I would like for it to show up in both folders.
I believe this is the main idea behind "search folders." All your mail
is actually just in one place (one mailbox) but you can have multiple
views over this (and preferrably the views are arranged hierarchically,
instead of a flat list, so I could have the views 'Friends' and
'Friends/Joe'). In other words, they're like instant search filters.
I realize that this is probably implemented in clients (just a matter of
building/maintaining an index over the mail), but with multiple clients,
you'd have to reproduce and synchronize the filters for each of them,
and also the server wouldn't be filtering these for you as the mail
comes in.
What I was mentioning were the attributes which I read about in the IMAP
RFC. These were intended for things like 'Seen', 'Answered', 'Flagged',
etc. What I'm wonder is if it's possible, efficient, or even a
convention to use them for views ('Some mailing list', 'Friends/Joe',
'Sent directly to me', etc,). Or perhaps there is a better way? Or no
way at all?
(4) (This is more of an IMAP protocol question.) I glanced at the RFC
for IMAP. Is there the concept of views/search folders/dynamic
filters? It seems that the 'mailbox' concept is like a folder, in
that a message can only belong to one. The closest thing I could find
was the attribute, but it was intended for things like 'read', etc.;
can this be used for the above purpose, or is IMAP not a good
protocol to use for searching?
I don't understand this question. Please rephrase it, and avoid the
use of the word "folder" which has imprecise meaning. Use the term
"mailbox" (a name that holds messages), "directory" (a name that holds
other names), or "dual-use name" (a name that is both a mailbox and a
directory).
Re: Help Running UW-IMAPD Under Cygwin
It's basically a different way of organizing email, different from the
concept of folders (mailboxes/directories).
Let's say I sort all my mail from a mailing list to one folder, and all
my mail from friends to another. If I get a message from my friend sent
to both me and the folder, I would like for it to show up in both folders.
I believe this is the main idea behind "search folders." All your mail
is actually just in one place (one mailbox) but you can have multiple
views over this (and preferrably the views are arranged hierarchically,
instead of a flat list, so I could have the views 'Friends' and
'Friends/Joe'). In other words, they're like instant search filters.
I realize that this is probably implemented in clients (just a matter of
building/maintaining an index over the mail), but with multiple clients,
you'd have to reproduce and synchronize the filters for each of them,
and also the server wouldn't be filtering these for you as the mail
comes in.
What I was mentioning were the attributes which I read about in the IMAP
RFC. These were intended for things like 'Seen', 'Answered', 'Flagged',
etc. What I'm wonder is if it's possible, efficient, or even a
convention to use them for views ('Some mailing list', 'Friends/Joe',
'Sent directly to me', etc,). Or perhaps there is a better way? Or no
way at all?
(4) (This is more of an IMAP protocol question.) I glanced at the RFC
for IMAP. Is there the concept of views/search folders/dynamic
filters? It seems that the 'mailbox' concept is like a folder, in that
a message can only belong to one. The closest thing I could find was
the attribute, but it was intended for things like 'read', etc.; can
this be used for the above purpose, or is IMAP not a good protocol to
use for searching?
I don't understand this question. Please rephrase it, and avoid the use
of the word "folder" which has imprecise meaning. Use the term
"mailbox" (a name that holds messages), "directory" (a name that holds
other names), or "dual-use name" (a name that is both a mailbox and a
directory).
Re: Help Running UW-IMAPD Under Cygwin
The first thing that you must realize is that UW imapd was not developed for Cygwin; it was developed for UNIX. Cygwin gives a UNIX-like environment under Windows, but it is not UNIX. This fact is important in understanding various issues. I should also note that there is a native Windows build. For those who want to use UW imapd under Windows, I recommend using the native build rather than Cygwin. Some things are known not to work under Cygwin, because Cygwin is not a complete/100% accurate implementation of UNIX. On Sun, 29 Aug 2004, overbored wrote: (1) I can log in, but I have no idea where the mail is. I can do an 'a examine inbox' (meaning 'inbox' exists, since 'a examine asdf' doesn't work), but where exactly is this inbox? It is very possible that no file for INBOX exists. In that case, INBOX (which always exists in IMAP) is empty. UW imapd will notice when an INBOX file is created and messages are put in it, and then the IMAP INBOX will go non-empty. Normally, an INBOX in UNIX will be the user's traditional UNIX format mailbox file in spool directory (e.g. /var/mail). This is one of those "not complete/100% accurate" issues that I alluded to above. An INBOX can also be one of several format-specific files (read the documentation about various mailbox formats); however note that only the mbx driver has been made to work under Cygwin and there are known Cygwin issues which break the other drivers. Perhaps at this point you're starting to recognize why I suggest using a real UNIX system, or the native Windows build, rather than Cygwin... 'a list "" *' seems to recursively list everything under my home dir. This is normal behavior, and is discussed in the FAQ. (2) I'd like to migrate my existing mail store (mbox format) to this IMAP. From what I've read, it seems that UW-IMAP also stores its messages in mbox format. But there's also a program called tmail to inject messages into IMAP. Can I just copy over my existing mbox files to wherever IMAP stores the messages Yes. tmail is for mail delivery. What you're doing is copying messages. Note that the native Windows build can also read traditional UNIX mailbox format; although it would be better if you transfer those files in ASCII mode so they are in CRLF format. (3) I would like to have mail coming from various POP accounts going into my IMAP mailboxes. I have learned how to use getmail; if I would like to use this with UW-IMAP, do I need to configure it to use tmail, or directly write to the mbox files? I don't know anything about getmail. I've read somewhere about locking issues; is this the reason why tmail is needed? tmail is for mail delivery (being called from sendmail or whatever SMTP server you are using). That is not the same as copying mail from a POP server. The locking issues are that Cygwin implements locking like Windows (surprise!) rather than like UNIX. The native Windows build knows about this, and the native Windows drivers use Windows style locking. The UNIX build, which is what Cygwin uses, thinks that locking is UNIX style, but in actuality Cygwin just has a subroutine which looks like UNIX style but actually is Windows style. Not the same thing. The mbx driver has been kludged to work around the subtle differences, but the other drivers have not. (4) (This is more of an IMAP protocol question.) I glanced at the RFC for IMAP. Is there the concept of views/search folders/dynamic filters? It seems that the 'mailbox' concept is like a folder, in that a message can only belong to one. The closest thing I could find was the attribute, but it was intended for things like 'read', etc.; can this be used for the above purpose, or is IMAP not a good protocol to use for searching? I don't understand this question. Please rephrase it, and avoid the use of the word "folder" which has imprecise meaning. Use the term "mailbox" (a name that holds messages), "directory" (a name that holds other names), or "dual-use name" (a name that is both a mailbox and a directory). - the 'root' user doesn't exist on my system (had to use SYSTEM) Note that the UNIX version of UW imapd must be run as root and must be able to do a setuid to the target user. This, of course, has no meaning under Cygwin. Cygwin has a kludgy thing called cygwin_logon_user() which jackets into the Windows impersonation functionality which is actually quite different. Once again, the native Windows build knows about all of this, and does the right thing. As the author of UW imapd, I strongly recommend against using Cygwin as a platform for running it. Instead, you are best off running imapd on a real UNIX system. If you must use Windows, you are better off using the native build and dealing with the necessary customizations for your system, rather than hoping that Cygwin will do the right things for you. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, o
Re: Help Running UW-IMAPD Under Cygwin
I figured out that problem, but now I have another few (hopefully quick)
questions about IMAP in general:
(1) I can log in, but I have no idea where the mail is. I can do an 'a
examine inbox' (meaning 'inbox' exists, since 'a examine asdf' doesn't
work), but where exactly is this inbox? The /var/mail directory doesn't
exist, and there's no file on my file system called 'inbox'. 'a list ""
*' seems to recursively list everything under my home dir.
(2) I'd like to migrate my existing mail store (mbox format) to this
IMAP. From what I've read, it seems that UW-IMAP also stores its
messages in mbox format. But there's also a program called tmail to
inject messages into IMAP. Can I just copy over my existing mbox files
to wherever IMAP stores the messages (see #1), or do I have to use
tmail? If I need to use tmail, how does one manually use it? Do you just
pipe mbox data into it?
(3) I would like to have mail coming from various POP accounts going
into my IMAP mailboxes. I have learned how to use getmail; if I would
like to use this with UW-IMAP, do I need to configure it to use tmail,
or directly write to the mbox files? I've read somewhere about locking
issues; is this the reason why tmail is needed?
(4) (This is more of an IMAP protocol question.) I glanced at the RFC
for IMAP. Is there the concept of views/search folders/dynamic filters?
It seems that the 'mailbox' concept is like a folder, in that a message
can only belong to one. The closest thing I could find was the
attribute, but it was intended for things like 'read', etc.; can this be
used for the above purpose, or is IMAP not a good protocol to use for
searching?
Thanks!!!
For anybody curious about my original problem, the Cygwin syslog is
accessed via the Event Viewer. From that I determined the problems:
- the permissions on the /etc/xinetd.d/imap file
- the CRLF line terminators in that file
- the 'root' user doesn't exist on my system (had to use SYSTEM)
overbored wrote:
I'm trying to get an IMAP server running, and it seems my only option
today is uw-imapd. The cygwin package for that is installed, and I
created an 'imap' file under xinetd.d with the following:
# default: off
# description: The IMAP service allows remote users to access their mail
using \
# an IMAP client such as Mutt, Pine, fetchmail, or Netscape \
# Communicator.
service imap
{
socket_type = stream
wait= no
user= root
server = /usr/sbin/imapd
log_on_success += HOST DURATION
log_on_failure += HOST
disable = no
}
But I cannot make any connection to localhost:143 (nothing listening). I
can connect to the other xinetd services fine (ftp), just not this one,
and I've checked that 'imap' was in /etc/services. I've done a ton of
searching to get where I am, but now I'm at a dead end. Any ideas?
Another thing...how easy is it to configure UW-IMAP? From what I've
read, it seems that *everything* is configured in the source or Makefile
(no conf files, etc.). And if I'm not mistaken, UW-IMAP does not
directly support Cygwin, and had to be ported over. However,
/usr/share/doc/Cygwin/uw-imap-2002e.README says the author (Abraham
Backus) further modified it from what's on
http://sourceforge.net/projects/uw-imap-cygwin/, so what exactly should
I be modifying? The canonical homepage just points to the original
UW-IMAP site. I looked for but didn't find any personal website of
Abraham Backus.
Please let me know if any further info is needed. Thanks in advance!
Re: Help Running UW-IMAPD Under Cygwin
I'm trying to get an IMAP server running, and it seems my only option today is uw-imapd. The cygwin package for that is installed, and I created an 'imap' file under xinetd.d with the following: But I cannot make any connection to localhost:143 (nothing listening). I can connect to the other xinetd services fine (ftp), just not this one, and I've checked that 'imap' was in /etc/services. I've done a ton of searching to get where I am, but now I'm at a dead end. Any ideas? Did you restart or kill -HUP xinetd after creating the imap file? What do the xinetd log entries in syslog say? It should pick up the new imap service... - Jim
Help Running UW-IMAPD Under Cygwin
I'm trying to get an IMAP server running, and it seems my only option
today is uw-imapd. The cygwin package for that is installed, and I
created an 'imap' file under xinetd.d with the following:
# default: off
# description: The IMAP service allows remote users to access their mail
using \
# an IMAP client such as Mutt, Pine, fetchmail, or Netscape \
# Communicator.
service imap
{
socket_type = stream
wait= no
user= root
server = /usr/sbin/imapd
log_on_success += HOST DURATION
log_on_failure += HOST
disable = no
}
But I cannot make any connection to localhost:143 (nothing listening). I
can connect to the other xinetd services fine (ftp), just not this one,
and I've checked that 'imap' was in /etc/services. I've done a ton of
searching to get where I am, but now I'm at a dead end. Any ideas?
Another thing...how easy is it to configure UW-IMAP? From what I've
read, it seems that *everything* is configured in the source or Makefile
(no conf files, etc.). And if I'm not mistaken, UW-IMAP does not
directly support Cygwin, and had to be ported over. However,
/usr/share/doc/Cygwin/uw-imap-2002e.README says the author (Abraham
Backus) further modified it from what's on
http://sourceforge.net/projects/uw-imap-cygwin/, so what exactly should
I be modifying? The canonical homepage just points to the original
UW-IMAP site. I looked for but didn't find any personal website of
Abraham Backus.
Please let me know if any further info is needed. Thanks in advance!
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