Re: [Callers] Calling to a square dance crowd

[Kalia Kliban via Callers]

On 2/21/2016 12:19 AM, Chris Page via Callers wrote:

I'd really recommend talking to the organizers. And possibly watching
one of their normal events.

Here's some of my thoughts on potential biggies:

-Many people will likely keep the same partner throughout the evening.

-The expected flow of the evening is very different -- typically they're
used to doing two dances with the same partner of about 6-10 (?)
minutes, and then a rest break. Potentially involving snacks. Rinse and
repeat.

-Swings are neither expected nor required. Without further instruction,
they'll go just once around, twirl, and stop.

-Be very careful about too much consecutive clockwise motion.

-You may have to adjust for the age level of the group. In general, MWSD
groups tend to be older.

-They're really not used to hearing the phrase of the music.

-Dropping out the calls may be traumatic for some.

-Contra is much more aerobic than squares.


It sounds like asymmetrical dances where half the people can rest while 
the others are doing something could be handy additions to your 
repertoire.  That would address a lot of these issues.


Kalia

Re: [Callers] Calling to a square dance crowd

[Meg Dedolph via Callers]

I just had a gig like this! A friend of mine is heavily into MWSD and is
always looking for ways to cross-pollinate the scene. She asked me to come
and share an evening with the regular caller because they couldn't get a
round dance caller for that particular night. I did not have a live band; I
used recordings, and I provided my own sound gear and mic.
Here's what I learned:
1. Long swings, of even eight counts, are not intuitive and you have to
spell out exactly what you want. The one time I introduced an eight count
swing, I counted it for them so they knew how long it was going to be - and
some people did not care for it at all. It does mean that a lot of the easy
contras I have, with 16-count swings that give people a chance to recover
and get back on the phrase, do not work very well.
2. Many calls overlap, and you can use those to your advantage. I was
trying to figure out if I was going to have to teach a ladies' chain, for
example, and I asked a MWSD caller acquaintance what would happen if I said
to the group, with no explanation, "Ladies, chain across the set," and when
I realized it was exactly what I needed them to do, I relaxed a little. :)
3. Be prepared for something you say to *not* mean the same thing you
intend, even if you think you are being exceedingly precise. I can't
remember what it was - but I intended for people to end up back to back
with their neighbor, facing a new foursome. What I got was people standing
shoulder to shoulder with their neighbors in what a contra dancer might
describe as a "short wavy line" without hands.

That point about becket dances perhaps being easier to understand
progression in is something I noticed at another recent gig I called -
interesting enough that it is making me rethink what I have flagged as
"first three dances of the night."

Good luck and have fun!
Meg

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 12:22 PM Lisa Greenleaf via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Check this out:
>
> http://www.tiac.net/~mabaker/how-contra-dances-work.html
>
> Clark Baker is a MWSD caller and a contra dancer, and he wrote an article
> explaining the differences.
>
> Lisa
>
>
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Joseph Erhard-Hudson via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I've been pretty low-key on calling for several years now, just a few
> local dances a year. Years ago I did close to one gig a month at home and
> around my local region, but cut back due to busy life. Now I've accepted an
> invitation for a regular gig that's going to be a bit different, so I'm
> back on this email list, and I seek your advice.
> >
> > A few people from the nearby Western Square Dance group came to one of
> our local contra dances where I was calling, and had such a fun time they
> have invited me, and the band from that evening, to come and do a monthly
> series in their hall, promoted and sponsored by them. The band and I
> decided we'd give it a shot.
> >
> > I've had barely any exposure to Western Square Dance, but I know their
> education system is formalized, calling is improvised, and the music is
> mostly recorded; whereas in contra dancing the education is more by
> assimilation, the calling is mostly fixed within a given dance, and the
> music is live and improvised. I anticipate we may feel like strange cousins
> to each other. Do any of you have any experiences or thoughts about
> crossing over into this parallel universe of traditional dancers? I'm
> particularly concerned about how I can best help them feel comfortable with
> the way Contra Dance is done, and how I can be a gracious presence in their
> space.
> >
> > Bonus question: they want to know how to split the gate, since they
> don't have experience paying bands. Your thoughts?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Joseph
> >
> > ___
> > Callers mailing list
> > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> >
> >
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>

Re: [Callers] Calling to a square dance crowd

[Lisa Greenleaf via Callers]

Check this out:

http://www.tiac.net/~mabaker/how-contra-dances-work.html

Clark Baker is a MWSD caller and a contra dancer, and he wrote an article 
explaining the differences.

Lisa


> 
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Joseph Erhard-Hudson via Callers 
>  wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I've been pretty low-key on calling for several years now, just a few local 
> dances a year. Years ago I did close to one gig a month at home and around my 
> local region, but cut back due to busy life. Now I've accepted an invitation 
> for a regular gig that's going to be a bit different, so I'm back on this 
> email list, and I seek your advice.
> 
> A few people from the nearby Western Square Dance group came to one of our 
> local contra dances where I was calling, and had such a fun time they have 
> invited me, and the band from that evening, to come and do a monthly series 
> in their hall, promoted and sponsored by them. The band and I decided we'd 
> give it a shot.
> 
> I've had barely any exposure to Western Square Dance, but I know their 
> education system is formalized, calling is improvised, and the music is 
> mostly recorded; whereas in contra dancing the education is more by 
> assimilation, the calling is mostly fixed within a given dance, and the music 
> is live and improvised. I anticipate we may feel like strange cousins to each 
> other. Do any of you have any experiences or thoughts about crossing over 
> into this parallel universe of traditional dancers? I'm particularly 
> concerned about how I can best help them feel comfortable with the way Contra 
> Dance is done, and how I can be a gracious presence in their space.
> 
> Bonus question: they want to know how to split the gate, since they don't 
> have experience paying bands. Your thoughts?
> 
> Best regards,
> Joseph
> 
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> 
> 

Lisa 

Re: [Callers] Calling to a square dance crowd

[Jeremy Gmail via Callers]

Hi Joseph

 

I do a lot of cross-calling between contra and MWSD with mixed crowds of 
varying experience, and whilst agreeing with everything that’s been said so 
far, I think there’s one thing it’s important not to lose sight of.

 

You said “and had such a fun time they have invited me, and the band”.  Since 
they invited you after coming to one of your dances, then one of your dances is 
what they both want and are expecting.  Whilst you may need to make minor 
adjustments due to the age and dance experience of the dancers, it would IMHO 
be a mistake to try to make it feel like MWSD.

 

Jeremy

 

 

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 6:28 PM, Joseph Erhard-Hudson via Callers 
 wrote:

Hi Everyone,

 

I've been pretty low-key on calling for several years now, just a few local 
dances a year. Years ago I did close to one gig a month at home and around my 
local region, but cut back due to busy life. Now I've accepted an invitation 
for a regular gig that's going to be a bit different, so I'm back on this email 
list, and I seek your advice.

 

A few people from the nearby Western Square Dance group came to one of our 
local contra dances where I was calling, and had such a fun time they have 
invited me, and the band from that evening, to come and do a monthly series in 
their hall, promoted and sponsored by them. The band and I decided we'd give it 
a shot.

 

I've had barely any exposure to Western Square Dance, but I know their 
education system is formalized, calling is improvised, and the music is mostly 
recorded; whereas in contra dancing the education is more by assimilation, the 
calling is mostly fixed within a given dance, and the music is live and 
improvised. I anticipate we may feel like strange cousins to each other. Do any 
of you have any experiences or thoughts about crossing over into this parallel 
universe of traditional dancers? I'm particularly concerned about how I can 
best help them feel comfortable with the way Contra Dance is done, and how I 
can be a gracious presence in their space.

 

Bonus question: they want to know how to split the gate, since they don't have 
experience paying bands. Your thoughts?

 

Best regards,

Joseph


___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

 

Re: [Callers] Calling to a square dance crowd

[Rich Sbardella via Callers]

Hello Joseph,

I have lots of experience working in such an environment.  As Chris said,
the swing is the biggest issue.  MWSD rotate once and Twirl out of the
swing.  (A good swing worksphop would help.)  When calling to such groups,
I limit the swings to eight beats,  (Replace a balance & swing, with a DSD
& swing)  Select your dances carefully.

Also since MWSDers are used to moving to the beat and not the phrase, I
would use simple wholeset dances, like Galopede,  to initiate them to the
phase.  Also a couple of New England style squares would help.

Another area of difficuly is progressions, so chose them carefully.  Becket
dances usually work well.

As a final bit of advice, introduce new calls slowly, until the dancers are
comfortable with contra.  There are so many calls that overlap both
communities such as Box the Gnat, Rollaway, and California Twirl, that you
will have lots of dances to choose from.  Once you win them over, you can
add calls that are not on their lists, such as Hey for Four and Mad Robin.

I am excited about your opportunity, and would enjoy getting a report back,
about your success.

Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 6:28 PM, Joseph Erhard-Hudson via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> I've been pretty low-key on calling for several years now, just a few
> local dances a year. Years ago I did close to one gig a month at home and
> around my local region, but cut back due to busy life. Now I've accepted an
> invitation for a regular gig that's going to be a bit different, so I'm
> back on this email list, and I seek your advice.
>
> A few people from the nearby Western Square Dance group came to one of our
> local contra dances where I was calling, and had such a fun time they have
> invited me, and the band from that evening, to come and do a monthly series
> in their hall, promoted and sponsored by them. The band and I decided we'd
> give it a shot.
>
> I've had barely any exposure to Western Square Dance, but I know their
> education system is formalized, calling is improvised, and the music is
> mostly recorded; whereas in contra dancing the education is more by
> assimilation, the calling is mostly fixed within a given dance, and the
> music is live and improvised. I anticipate we may feel like strange cousins
> to each other. Do any of you have any experiences or thoughts about
> crossing over into this parallel universe of traditional dancers? I'm
> particularly concerned about how I can best help them feel comfortable with
> the way Contra Dance is done, and how I can be a gracious presence in their
> space.
>
> Bonus question: they want to know how to split the gate, since they don't
> have experience paying bands. Your thoughts?
>
> Best regards,
> Joseph
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>

Re: [Callers] Calling to a square dance crowd

[Rich Goss via Callers]

Hi Joseph,

Several years ago there was a national MWSD convention here in Portland.   They 
hired a local contra dance band, rented an hall, and put on a contra dance for 
the attendees.   The band invited dancers from the local contra dance 
community.   Their callers did the contra calling.   Aside from not really 
being on the phrase sometimes, they did a find job.   I think they are more 
familiar with contra than you might think.   They referred to contra dances as 
‘energizer’ dances.  Will they let you invite any dancers from the local contra 
community?

Also, I would strongly suggest that you post this question to 
trad-dance-call...@yahoogroups.com.   That list has a good mix of MWSD and 
contra callers, so you’ll get some inside advice there. 

It sure sounds like to me that they liked their experience at your local dance, 
and want to recreate that for their dance community.   If it’s to be a monthly 
series, then it will evolve.

My two cents, Rich


> On Feb 20, 2016, at 3:28 PM, Joseph Erhard-Hudson via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I've been pretty low-key on calling for several years now, just a few local 
> dances a year. Years ago I did close to one gig a month at home and around my 
> local region, but cut back due to busy life. Now I've accepted an invitation 
> for a regular gig that's going to be a bit different, so I'm back on this 
> email list, and I seek your advice.
> 
> A few people from the nearby Western Square Dance group came to one of our 
> local contra dances where I was calling, and had such a fun time they have 
> invited me, and the band from that evening, to come and do a monthly series 
> in their hall, promoted and sponsored by them. The band and I decided we'd 
> give it a shot.
> 
> I've had barely any exposure to Western Square Dance, but I know their 
> education system is formalized, calling is improvised, and the music is 
> mostly recorded; whereas in contra dancing the education is more by 
> assimilation, the calling is mostly fixed within a given dance, and the music 
> is live and improvised. I anticipate we may feel like strange cousins to each 
> other. Do any of you have any experiences or thoughts about crossing over 
> into this parallel universe of traditional dancers? I'm particularly 
> concerned about how I can best help them feel comfortable with the way Contra 
> Dance is done, and how I can be a gracious presence in their space.
> 
> Bonus question: they want to know how to split the gate, since they don't 
> have experience paying bands. Your thoughts?
> 
> Best regards,
> Joseph
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Calling to a square dance crowd

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

Mostly violent agreement with Chris with a few tweaks, expansions, and
corrections:

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016, Chris Page via Callers wrote:
> 
> -Many people will likely keep the same partner throughout the evening.

This varies a lot depending on what kind of club it is.  

> -The expected flow of the evening is very different -- typically they're
> used to doing two dances with the same partner of about 6-10 (?) minutes,
> and then a rest break. Potentially involving snacks. Rinse and repeat.

It's not really two dances, not the way MWSD people think about it.  A
"tip" (a single dance) is broken up into two chunks with two different
pieces of music.  The first part (patter) is typically a more steady
piece of music, with an emphasis on choregraphy.  That lasts anywhere
from six to twelve minutes, usually about eight.

The second part is a "singing call" that is based on a piece of popular
or traditional music (my repertoire includes "All About That Bass",
"Ain't Misbehavin'", "Do Wah Diddy", and "A Friend Like Me" from
Aladdin).  The command words for the square dance are mixed in with the
words from the original song, but the music is almost always redone for
square dancing and will sound at least a bit weird.  A singing call lasts
about four minutes and is generally progressive (moving the "ladies"
around the square -- and yes, MWSD is more gendered than contra).

Between the two parts of a tip, a square usually rotates a quarter
clockwise ("Stir The Bucket"); often these days the caller uses a tricky
bit of choreography to reotate the dancers.

I actually use two different pieces of patter music here (because they
wanted a longer-than-usual tip at 15 minutes), but otherwise this shows
a newbie caller doing an okay job of introducing square dance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFBy1EGmnic

Some clubs have music during the break, usually a line dance or a round
dance (or just incidental music):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round_dance

> -Be very careful about too much consecutive clockwise motion.

Very yes.  R Thru, Ladies Chain, and Star Left are your friends here.

> -They're really not used to hearing the phrase of the music.

Really really not used to it -- even the ones who can manage line dancing
and/or couple dancing.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Calling to a square dance crowd

[Chris Page via Callers]

I'd really recommend talking to the organizers. And possibly watching one
of their normal events.

Here's some of my thoughts on potential biggies:

-You and the band will likely need to supply and run your own sound system.

-Many people will likely keep the same partner throughout the evening.

-The expected flow of the evening is very different -- typically they're
used to doing two dances with the same partner of about 6-10 (?) minutes,
and then a rest break. Potentially involving snacks. Rinse and repeat.

-Swings are neither expected nor required. Without further instruction,
they'll go just once around, twirl, and stop.

-Be very careful about too much consecutive clockwise motion.

-You may have to adjust for the age level of the group. In general, MWSD
groups tend to be older.

-They're really not used to hearing the phrase of the music.

-Dropping out the calls may be traumatic for some.

-Contra is much more aerobic than squares.

Good luck,
-Chris Page
San Diego, CA

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Joseph Erhard-Hudson via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> I've been pretty low-key on calling for several years now, just a few
> local dances a year. Years ago I did close to one gig a month at home and
> around my local region, but cut back due to busy life. Now I've accepted an
> invitation for a regular gig that's going to be a bit different, so I'm
> back on this email list, and I seek your advice.
>
> A few people from the nearby Western Square Dance group came to one of our
> local contra dances where I was calling, and had such a fun time they have
> invited me, and the band from that evening, to come and do a monthly series
> in their hall, promoted and sponsored by them. The band and I decided we'd
> give it a shot.
>
> I've had barely any exposure to Western Square Dance, but I know their
> education system is formalized, calling is improvised, and the music is
> mostly recorded; whereas in contra dancing the education is more by
> assimilation, the calling is mostly fixed within a given dance, and the
> music is live and improvised. I anticipate we may feel like strange cousins
> to each other. Do any of you have any experiences or thoughts about
> crossing over into this parallel universe of traditional dancers? I'm
> particularly concerned about how I can best help them feel comfortable with
> the way Contra Dance is done, and how I can be a gracious presence in their
> space.
>
> Bonus question: they want to know how to split the gate, since they don't
> have experience paying bands. Your thoughts?
>
> Best regards,
> Joseph
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>