Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?

[Ron Blechner via Callers]

It's also really similar to Tom Hinds' Frederick Contra (but only gents DSD
and order of moves is different) as well as Linda Leslie's Autumn Leaves
(but no allemande / chain).

I also dislike chain -> progress to balance; it never flows right for me as
a dancer. And it defeats the whole purpose of a glossary move dance if a
caller has to rely on doing the move (chain) in a way where one or both
role has to do it differently from almost every other time it's called.
Thus, what's the point of trying to teach a chain, if the caviat is "it'll
be different every other time".

The allemande to balance can be a reach, I agree. But since the do-si-do is
only really a 6 beat move, I like the allemande->do-si-do next progression
and think it's sufficiently glossary.

I just added Troxler to my box, but with the allemande variation.

Best,
Ron

On Aug 22, 2016 10:58 AM, "Luke Donforth via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Thank you to everyone who chimed in; fun to hear about all the versions
> and folks preferences.
>
> I, personally, am glad my (digital) box is big enough for all of the
> variations. I can see instances where I'd use any of them. With
> predominately new dancers on the first duple improper of the evening, I
> think the ladies on their own for an allemande would fare better than the
> "help" gents can give on the courtesy turn of a chain. I agree with Jack
> that chain->face new neighbor can be a tough transition. But Troxler's is
> straightforward enough that you could use it to focus on teaching a chain
> to new dancers; with a forgiving squishy entry into the DSD. And I haven't
> broken a hundred times yet with Nice Combination, but I'm sure I will.
>
> Thanks again. This discussion has even got me thinking about another thing
> I'd like to discuss on shared weight.
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:56 AM, Bob Isaacs <isaacs...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All:
>>
>>
>> While I appreciate Jack's comments about the chain/B progression, that
>> is more of a teaching issue than a choreographic one.  More important is
>> how much assistance those in the ladies role can get from their partner in
>> B2b.  In a chain they can get that from the joined hands in the long
>> lines.  But for the allemande L they need to let go from their partner and
>> are on their own.  That help would occur if Luke's dance finished with a
>> ladies allemande R 1 1/2, but that would not flow as well into the next
>> neighbor dosido.  So I'll stick with Nice Combo/Troxler's on the
>> Loose/Forgotten Treasure -
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Callers <callers-boun...@lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of
>> Jack Mitchell via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 21, 2016 10:27 PM
>> *To:* Linda Leslie; Luke Donforth
>> *Cc:* Callers@Lists.Sharedweight.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?
>>
>> Though I know that there are lots of traditional dances with a ladies
>> chain (turn away) new N, I am really not crazy about them.  OkI'll
>> admit it, I actively dislike them.  Particularly for new dancers, and
>> particularly going to a discrete move like a balance.  It requires the lady
>> to extricate themselves from a previous neighbor (who *should certainly
>> not* twirl and forget, but frequently does), and requires the (polite)
>> gent to turn away from their direction of progression to get new ladies
>> pointed in the right direction at the end of the courtesy turn before the
>> gent can progress (and for that matter, requires the courtesy turn to be
>> either done more quickly, or otherwise to be cut short to get everyone
>> going in the right direction.  (don't even get me started on dances that
>> have a butterfly whirl -> turn away to a new neighbor).   (There are dances
>> -- like Punctuated Raindrops -- that have that progression, that I will
>> still call a) because they're great dances other than that and b) because
>> the timing of the progression isn't discrete -- if you're late to start the
>> allemande L, it's ok, the timing will work out in the wash.)  
>>
>> The ladies allemande L progression, 1) puts the ladies in a bit more
>> control, 2) allows the caller to point out where they're going, and who
>> they're going to and 3) leaves a free hand available to reach out to the
>> new neighbor.  Even with similarities in the rest of the dance, I think
>> that is really enough to make it a distinct (and a more accessible) dance
>> from the ones mentioned.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>

Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?

[Luke Donforth via Callers]

Thank you to everyone who chimed in; fun to hear about all the versions and
folks preferences.

I, personally, am glad my (digital) box is big enough for all of the
variations. I can see instances where I'd use any of them. With
predominately new dancers on the first duple improper of the evening, I
think the ladies on their own for an allemande would fare better than the
"help" gents can give on the courtesy turn of a chain. I agree with Jack
that chain->face new neighbor can be a tough transition. But Troxler's is
straightforward enough that you could use it to focus on teaching a chain
to new dancers; with a forgiving squishy entry into the DSD. And I haven't
broken a hundred times yet with Nice Combination, but I'm sure I will.

Thanks again. This discussion has even got me thinking about another thing
I'd like to discuss on shared weight.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:56 AM, Bob Isaacs <isaacs...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All:
>
>
> While I appreciate Jack's comments about the chain/B progression, that
> is more of a teaching issue than a choreographic one.  More important is
> how much assistance those in the ladies role can get from their partner in
> B2b.  In a chain they can get that from the joined hands in the long
> lines.  But for the allemande L they need to let go from their partner and
> are on their own.  That help would occur if Luke's dance finished with a
> ladies allemande R 1 1/2, but that would not flow as well into the next
> neighbor dosido.  So I'll stick with Nice Combo/Troxler's on the
> Loose/Forgotten Treasure -
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Callers <callers-boun...@lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of
> Jack Mitchell via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 21, 2016 10:27 PM
> *To:* Linda Leslie; Luke Donforth
> *Cc:* Callers@Lists.Sharedweight.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?
>
> Though I know that there are lots of traditional dances with a ladies
> chain (turn away) new N, I am really not crazy about them.  OkI'll
> admit it, I actively dislike them.  Particularly for new dancers, and
> particularly going to a discrete move like a balance.  It requires the lady
> to extricate themselves from a previous neighbor (who *should certainly
> not* twirl and forget, but frequently does), and requires the (polite)
> gent to turn away from their direction of progression to get new ladies
> pointed in the right direction at the end of the courtesy turn before the
> gent can progress (and for that matter, requires the courtesy turn to be
> either done more quickly, or otherwise to be cut short to get everyone
> going in the right direction.  (don't even get me started on dances that
> have a butterfly whirl -> turn away to a new neighbor).   (There are dances
> -- like Punctuated Raindrops -- that have that progression, that I will
> still call a) because they're great dances other than that and b) because
> the timing of the progression isn't discrete -- if you're late to start the
> allemande L, it's ok, the timing will work out in the wash.)  
>
> The ladies allemande L progression, 1) puts the ladies in a bit more
> control, 2) allows the caller to point out where they're going, and who
> they're going to and 3) leaves a free hand available to reach out to the
> new neighbor.  Even with similarities in the rest of the dance, I think
> that is really enough to make it a distinct (and a more accessible) dance
> from the ones mentioned.
>
> Jack
>
> On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 9:53 PM Linda Leslie via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> This dance is virtually the same as Troxler’s on the Loose, by Chris
>> Ricciotti. The only difference in Chris’ dance is that the final move is a
>> ladies chain.
>> Beth Parkes also wrote a dance that is mostly the same: Forgotten
>> treasure. She begins the dance with a N B, and ends it with a chain as
>> well.
>> Linda
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2016, at 9:10 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > I was trying to find an easy and accessible dance, a real glossary
>> basic contra.
>> >
>> > I feel like this must already exist, but I'm not finding it in my
>> notes. Someone got a prior?
>> >
>> > Type: Contra
>> > Formation: Duple-Improper
>> >
>> > A1 ---
>> > (8) Neighbor Do-si-do
>> > (8) Neighbor swing, end facing down the hall
>> > A2 ---
>> > (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples)
>> > (8) Return and Bend the line
>> > B1 ---

Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?

[Bob Isaacs via Callers]

Hi All:


While I appreciate Jack's comments about the chain/B progression, that is 
more of a teaching issue than a choreographic one.  More important is how much 
assistance those in the ladies role can get from their partner in B2b.  In a 
chain they can get that from the joined hands in the long lines.  But for the 
allemande L they need to let go from their partner and are on their own.  That 
help would occur if Luke's dance finished with a ladies allemande R 1 1/2, but 
that would not flow as well into the next neighbor dosido.  So I'll stick with 
Nice Combo/Troxler's on the Loose/Forgotten Treasure -


Bob




From: Callers <callers-boun...@lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of Jack 
Mitchell via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2016 10:27 PM
To: Linda Leslie; Luke Donforth
Cc: Callers@Lists.Sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?

Though I know that there are lots of traditional dances with a ladies chain 
(turn away) new N, I am really not crazy about them.  OkI'll admit it, 
I actively dislike them.  Particularly for new dancers, and particularly going 
to a discrete move like a balance.  It requires the lady to extricate 
themselves from a previous neighbor (who should certainly not twirl and forget, 
but frequently does), and requires the (polite) gent to turn away from their 
direction of progression to get new ladies pointed in the right direction at 
the end of the courtesy turn before the gent can progress (and for that matter, 
requires the courtesy turn to be either done more quickly, or otherwise to be 
cut short to get everyone going in the right direction.  (don't even get me 
started on dances that have a butterfly whirl -> turn away to a new neighbor).  
 (There are dances -- like Punctuated Raindrops -- that have that progression, 
that I will still call a) because they're great dances other than that and b) 
because the timing of the progression isn't discrete -- if you're late to start 
the allemande L, it's ok, the timing will work out in the wash.)  

The ladies allemande L progression, 1) puts the ladies in a bit more control, 
2) allows the caller to point out where they're going, and who they're going to 
and 3) leaves a free hand available to reach out to the new neighbor.  Even 
with similarities in the rest of the dance, I think that is really enough to 
make it a distinct (and a more accessible) dance from the ones mentioned.

Jack

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 9:53 PM Linda Leslie via Callers 
<callers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
This dance is virtually the same as Troxler’s on the Loose, by Chris Ricciotti. 
The only difference in Chris’ dance is that the final move is a ladies chain.
Beth Parkes also wrote a dance that is mostly the same: Forgotten treasure. She 
begins the dance with a N B, and ends it with a chain as well.
Linda

On Aug 21, 2016, at 9:10 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers 
<callers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I was trying to find an easy and accessible dance, a real glossary basic 
> contra.
>
> I feel like this must already exist, but I'm not finding it in my notes. 
> Someone got a prior?
>
> Type: Contra
> Formation: Duple-Improper
>
> A1 ---
> (8) Neighbor Do-si-do
> (8) Neighbor swing, end facing down the hall
> A2 ---
> (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples)
> (8) Return and Bend the line
> B1 ---
> (6) Circle Left 3/4
> (10) Partner swing
> B2 ---
> (8) Long lines, forward and back
> (8) Women allemande Left 1-1/2
>
> The B2 could be W DSD 1.5, although I like the allemande for the connection 
> for brand new dancers. I specifically chose the left hand to leave the women 
> facing towards their new neighbor.
>
> I know it's really close to a bunch of other stuff. B2 could be C L 3/4, 
> balance and pass through; or chain to left hand star à la The Nice 
> Combination; etc.
>
> Barring it already having been named by someone else, I'm going to call it 
> "Having Fun with PAM" to keep track of it in my box; since I just got back 
> from the fabulous PAMFest (Peacham Acoustic Music Festival).
>
> Thanks.
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
--
Jack Mitchell
Durham, NC

Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?

[Jack Mitchell via Callers]

Though I know that there are lots of traditional dances with a ladies chain
(turn away) new N, I am really not crazy about them.  OkI'll admit
it, I actively dislike them.  Particularly for new dancers, and
particularly going to a discrete move like a balance.  It requires the lady
to extricate themselves from a previous neighbor (who *should
certainly not* twirl
and forget, but frequently does), and requires the (polite) gent to turn
away from their direction of progression to get new ladies pointed in the
right direction at the end of the courtesy turn before the gent can
progress (and for that matter, requires the courtesy turn to be either done
more quickly, or otherwise to be cut short to get everyone going in the
right direction.  (don't even get me started on dances that have a
butterfly whirl -> turn away to a new neighbor).   (There are dances --
like Punctuated Raindrops -- that have that progression, that I will still
call a) because they're great dances other than that and b) because the
timing of the progression isn't discrete -- if you're late to start the
allemande L, it's ok, the timing will work out in the wash.)  

The ladies allemande L progression, 1) puts the ladies in a bit more
control, 2) allows the caller to point out where they're going, and who
they're going to and 3) leaves a free hand available to reach out to the
new neighbor.  Even with similarities in the rest of the dance, I think
that is really enough to make it a distinct (and a more accessible) dance
from the ones mentioned.

Jack

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 9:53 PM Linda Leslie via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> This dance is virtually the same as Troxler’s on the Loose, by Chris
> Ricciotti. The only difference in Chris’ dance is that the final move is a
> ladies chain.
> Beth Parkes also wrote a dance that is mostly the same: Forgotten
> treasure. She begins the dance with a N B, and ends it with a chain as
> well.
> Linda
>
> On Aug 21, 2016, at 9:10 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I was trying to find an easy and accessible dance, a real glossary basic
> contra.
> >
> > I feel like this must already exist, but I'm not finding it in my notes.
> Someone got a prior?
> >
> > Type: Contra
> > Formation: Duple-Improper
> >
> > A1 ---
> > (8) Neighbor Do-si-do
> > (8) Neighbor swing, end facing down the hall
> > A2 ---
> > (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples)
> > (8) Return and Bend the line
> > B1 ---
> > (6) Circle Left 3/4
> > (10) Partner swing
> > B2 ---
> > (8) Long lines, forward and back
> > (8) Women allemande Left 1-1/2
> >
> > The B2 could be W DSD 1.5, although I like the allemande for the
> connection for brand new dancers. I specifically chose the left hand to
> leave the women facing towards their new neighbor.
> >
> > I know it's really close to a bunch of other stuff. B2 could be C L 3/4,
> balance and pass through; or chain to left hand star à la The Nice
> Combination; etc.
> >
> > Barring it already having been named by someone else, I'm going to call
> it "Having Fun with PAM" to keep track of it in my box; since I just got
> back from the fabulous PAMFest (Peacham Acoustic Music Festival).
> >
> > Thanks.
> > ___
> > Callers mailing list
> > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
-- 
Jack Mitchell
Durham, NC

Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?

[Linda Leslie via Callers]

This dance is virtually the same as Troxler’s on the Loose, by Chris Ricciotti. 
The only difference in Chris’ dance is that the final move is a ladies chain.
Beth Parkes also wrote a dance that is mostly the same: Forgotten treasure. She 
begins the dance with a N B, and ends it with a chain as well.
Linda

On Aug 21, 2016, at 9:10 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers 
 wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> I was trying to find an easy and accessible dance, a real glossary basic 
> contra.  
> 
> I feel like this must already exist, but I'm not finding it in my notes. 
> Someone got a prior?
> 
> Type: Contra
> Formation: Duple-Improper
> 
> A1 ---
> (8) Neighbor Do-si-do
> (8) Neighbor swing, end facing down the hall
> A2 ---
> (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples)
> (8) Return and Bend the line
> B1 ---
> (6) Circle Left 3/4
> (10) Partner swing
> B2 ---
> (8) Long lines, forward and back
> (8) Women allemande Left 1-1/2
> 
> The B2 could be W DSD 1.5, although I like the allemande for the connection 
> for brand new dancers. I specifically chose the left hand to leave the women 
> facing towards their new neighbor. 
> 
> I know it's really close to a bunch of other stuff. B2 could be C L 3/4, 
> balance and pass through; or chain to left hand star à la The Nice 
> Combination; etc.
> 
> Barring it already having been named by someone else, I'm going to call it 
> "Having Fun with PAM" to keep track of it in my box; since I just got back 
> from the fabulous PAMFest (Peacham Acoustic Music Festival). 
> 
> Thanks.
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?

[Luke Donforth via Callers]

Excuse me, that B1 is Partner Swing, not Partner Neighbor.
(Thank you David Harding for catching my copy/paste error)

A1 ---
(8) Neighbor Do-si-do
(8) Neighbor swing, end facing down the hall
A2 ---
(8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples)
(8) Return and Bend the line
B1 ---
(6) Circle Left 3/4
(10) Partner swing
B2 ---
(8) Long lines, forward and back
(8) Women allemande Left 1-1/2