Re: [Cameramakers] Rack and pinion template system
of steel would get us jig that could last a lifetime. Also, as I said earlier, the more of us that get one will drive the cost down as well. Also, the CNC machine will do a great job of cutting the shape of the teeth to the correct dimensions so we won't have to get too detailed about that side of the construction although I can say that the gear teeth will be typical involute gears that can be used in rack and pinions. Obviously, you won't be cutting helical or worm gears with this. So far it looks like the list is myself and Phil McCourt. I'll keep the list informed of the plans and as I get them into Power Point I'll post it on my website so you all can see what I'm doing. Dan Rhoades www.rhoadescameras.bizland.com - Original Message - From: Robert Mueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [Cameramakers] Rack and pinion template system Would it not be easier to mill the teeth (router) with a shaped cutter and just some device to advance the cutter by one tooth spacing after each row of cuts. Making cutters should be quite easy. The rack can have straight sided teeth and it is not hard to make an involute cutter for the gear. Metal workers have all the details worked out. Bob At 21:47 24.10.01 -0600, you wrote: I was wondering in anyone would be interested in a template/jig to be able to shape and cut a rack and pinion out of wood. I'm working with a engineer with a good CNC metal shop to build a jig system for cutting the pinion and rack by hand using files and chisels. I think African Blackwood, Cocobolo, Hard Maple or other hard stable woods would be great for gearing since there isn't a lot of pressure on the gear teeth. The design we are working is based on hardened steel runners in which you would place the piece of wood in between two jigs, clamp the wood tight, drill the center hole using a predrilled hole in the steel that would guide the bit straight, and then cut and file each tooth. The rack will be a similar design but won't need the center hole. Now, I'm going to build one for myself since I like having rack and pinion focusing on my cameras and a wood system is so much cooler than adding metal to the system. My friend (Kirk Kovel of Kovel Precision Machine in Colorado Springs) can build the system cheaper in production than one at a time so if others want this type of system we can all benefit from a cheaper price. He is also great since he knows that this is just a hobby and none of us are out to make money doing this so he charges a reasonable price. I have no idea at this time what the cost per unit would be since more units will bring down the price, but the price would be at cost. My current camera is using a 16 tooth system and is quite stable with no stress on the gear teeth. I think a 32 or even a 64 tooth system would be quite reasonable and workable but I want to see what any other interested parties would like. The other size requirements we need to work out amongst ourselves is the size of the pinion and the length of the rack. My current system has the pinion at a 2 diameter and the rack at 16 long and that seems to work well. Alright, let's see if anyone is interested and we'll work out the details and see if anyone has good ideas to make this system work. Dan Rhoades http://www.rhoadescameras.bizland.comwww.rhoadescameras.bizland.com ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
Re: [Cameramakers] Rack and pinion template system
One other thought; I do not do any high class woodwork but my father did. I can imagine using the cutters I just described to make teeth by hand in the good, old fashioned way I saw as my father made moldings. Bob ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
Re: [Cameramakers] Rack and pinion template system
You are right, and not quite so right! The trouble is that the correct rack for a lantern pinion is a cycloid but an involute rack has straight-sided teeth, and there are a lot to cut. Conversely, A lantern pinion might just be the way to get the strength in the pinion teeth. Bob At 15:53 25.10.01 -0400, you wrote: I have made clocks and wonder why the pinion gear when a lantern gear is so much easier to make. Jim Ketcheson Matt Mengel wrote: Hey all, I am a machinist, and I agree that a cutter for a router would be the easiest way to cut the teeth for the rack. ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
Re: [Cameramakers] Rack and pinion template system
Looking at the article that inspired the gears on my last camera Wayne Westphale used old spade bits for his cutters in a series of three to create the shape of tooth he was looking for. Dan - Original Message - From: Robert Mueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 6:47 AM Subject: Re: [Cameramakers] Rack and pinion template system One other thought; I do not do any high class woodwork but my father did. I can imagine using the cutters I just described to make teeth by hand in the good, old fashioned way I saw as my father made moldings. Bob ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
Re: [Cameramakers] Rack and pinion template system
The other problem with a lantern gear is that you are trying to fit the gear into a tight space (the front and rear sliders on the 4X5) and then you have the problem of what to do with the sides of the lantern gear since you'll want the rack inlayed into the optical bench. Of course, you can create reliefs on each side of the teeth but the you've taken away some of the support you get for the teeth by inlaying in the first place. Bob, I like the idea of laminated wood, in fact, Wayne Westphale did just that to make the gears for the clocks he builds. I've heard the suggestion that the inside layers of the gear should be a Baltic Birch lamination since that wood is very stable but Wayne has used just about any good hardwood laminated as you suggested (or so he relates in his articles). Dan - Original Message - From: Robert Mueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [Cameramakers] Rack and pinion template system You are right, and not quite so right! The trouble is that the correct rack for a lantern pinion is a cycloid but an involute rack has straight-sided teeth, and there are a lot to cut. Conversely, A lantern pinion might just be the way to get the strength in the pinion teeth. Bob At 15:53 25.10.01 -0400, you wrote: I have made clocks and wonder why the pinion gear when a lantern gear is so much easier to make. Jim Ketcheson Matt Mengel wrote: Hey all, I am a machinist, and I agree that a cutter for a router would be the easiest way to cut the teeth for the rack. ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
Re: [Cameramakers] Rack and pinion template system
Dan, If the cost is within reason I would be interested. I want to make an 8x10 fld camera and a wood rack and pinion would fit the bill. It would also be a good addition to the monorail. Let me know the details as you get them. Phil http://www.philsan.com Dan Rhoades wrote: I was wondering in anyone would be interested in a template/jig to be able to shape and cut a rack and pinion out of wood. I'm working with a engineer with a good CNC metal shop to build a jig system for cutting the pinion and rack by hand using files and chisels. I think African Blackwood, Cocobolo, Hard Maple or other hard stable woods would be great for gearing since there isn't a lot of pressure on the gear teeth. The design we are working is based on hardened steel runners in which you would place the piece of wood in between two jigs, clamp the wood tight, drill the center hole using a predrilled hole in the steel that would guide the bit straight, and then cut and file each tooth. The rack will be a similar design but won't need the center hole. Now, I'm going to build one for myself since I like having rack and pinion focusing on my cameras and a wood system is so much cooler than adding metal to the system. My friend (Kirk Kovel of Kovel Precision Machine in Colorado Springs) can build the system cheaper in production than one at a time so if others want this type of system we can all benefit from a cheaper price. He is also great since he knows that this is just a hobby and none of us are out to make money doing this so he charges a reasonable price. I have no idea at this time what the cost per unit would be since more units will bring down the price, but the price would be at cost. My current camera is using a 16 tooth system and is quite stable with no stress on the gear teeth. I think a 32 or even a 64 tooth system would be quite reasonable and workable but I want to see what any other interested parties would like. The other size requirements we need to work out amongst ourselves is the size of the pinion and the length of the rack. My current system has the pinion at a 2 diameter and the rack at 16 long and that seems to work well. Alright, let's see if anyone is interested and we'll work out the details and see if anyone has good ideas to make this system work. Dan Rhoadeswww.rhoadescameras.bizland.com ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
Re: [Cameramakers] Rack and pinion template system
On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Dan Rhoades wrote: I was wondering in anyone would be interested in a template/jig to be able to shape and cut a rack and pinion out of wood. How do the guys making the wooden gear clocks do this? Was curious enough to do some web searching with limited results. The closest stuff I found was: http://www.howstuffworks.com/gear.htm?printable=1 http://www.communitypc.com/ http://www.bmumford.com/ebay/details/details.html http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/indextool.mv?prodid=AP-MAKINGWOR http://www.mjdtools.com/books/42209.htm Lots of books on how to do this it looks like, but no obvious web tutorials. - Wayde ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
Re: [Cameramakers] Rack and pinion template system
Bob, Basically this system will be an indexer with the tooth shape pre-cut so that a person could cut the teeth with hand tools or a shaped router bit. I'm trying to work out the most versital design so we could make gears of different sizes (I would like to make a clock with all wood gears as well) but we do have several limitations. First, of course, is that complexity and size = high cost. I want this to be !well! under $100 per unit if possible. The system could be built out of wood (see Fine Woodworking March 1986 reprinted in Small Woodworking Projects, Taunton Press) but then you wouldn't get exact tooth spacing without a lot of time, patience and scrap (at least for me) and the jig would have a limited life. Making it out of steel would get us jig that could last a lifetime. Also, as I said earlier, the more of us that get one will drive the cost down as well. Also, the CNC machine will do a great job of cutting the shape of the teeth to the correct dimensions so we won't have to get too detailed about that side of the construction although I can say that the gear teeth will be typical involute gears that can be used in rack and pinions. Obviously, you won't be cutting helical or worm gears with this. So far it looks like the list is myself and Phil McCourt. I'll keep the list informed of the plans and as I get them into Power Point I'll post it on my website so you all can see what I'm doing. Dan Rhoades www.rhoadescameras.bizland.com - Original Message - From: Robert Mueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [Cameramakers] Rack and pinion template system Would it not be easier to mill the teeth (router) with a shaped cutter and just some device to advance the cutter by one tooth spacing after each row of cuts. Making cutters should be quite easy. The rack can have straight sided teeth and it is not hard to make an involute cutter for the gear. Metal workers have all the details worked out. Bob At 21:47 24.10.01 -0600, you wrote: I was wondering in anyone would be interested in a template/jig to be able to shape and cut a rack and pinion out of wood. I'm working with a engineer with a good CNC metal shop to build a jig system for cutting the pinion and rack by hand using files and chisels. I think African Blackwood, Cocobolo, Hard Maple or other hard stable woods would be great for gearing since there isn't a lot of pressure on the gear teeth. The design we are working is based on hardened steel runners in which you would place the piece of wood in between two jigs, clamp the wood tight, drill the center hole using a predrilled hole in the steel that would guide the bit straight, and then cut and file each tooth. The rack will be a similar design but won't need the center hole. Now, I'm going to build one for myself since I like having rack and pinion focusing on my cameras and a wood system is so much cooler than adding metal to the system. My friend (Kirk Kovel of Kovel Precision Machine in Colorado Springs) can build the system cheaper in production than one at a time so if others want this type of system we can all benefit from a cheaper price. He is also great since he knows that this is just a hobby and none of us are out to make money doing this so he charges a reasonable price. I have no idea at this time what the cost per unit would be since more units will bring down the price, but the price would be at cost. My current camera is using a 16 tooth system and is quite stable with no stress on the gear teeth. I think a 32 or even a 64 tooth system would be quite reasonable and workable but I want to see what any other interested parties would like. The other size requirements we need to work out amongst ourselves is the size of the pinion and the length of the rack. My current system has the pinion at a 2 diameter and the rack at 16 long and that seems to work well. Alright, let's see if anyone is interested and we'll work out the details and see if anyone has good ideas to make this system work. Dan Rhoades http://www.rhoadescameras.bizland.comwww.rhoadescameras.bizland.com ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
Re: [Cameramakers] Rack and pinion template system
I have made clocks and wonder why the pinion gear when a lantern gear is so much easier to make. Jim Ketcheson Matt Mengel wrote: Hey all, I am a machinist, and I agree that a cutter for a router would be the easiest way to cut the teeth for the rack. ___ Cameramakers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers
