Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 04:34:31PM +, Ash Berlin wrote: For vim I use the MiniBuffExplorer plugin and split windows - give you tab like interface, and is faster than gvim7's own tabs IMO. Dare I mention that Eclipse has a perl personality now-a-days. Joe -- Josef Karthauser ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.josef-k.net/ Physics Particle Theory (student) http://www.pact.cpes.sussex.ac.uk/ An eclectic mix of fact and theory. = pgpjLX0wC4a9S.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
I think things like Aptana are the real strength of Eclipse. The same IDE can be used to check javascript and html, pure java apps, Perl code, talk to cvs/svn, connect to an Oracle database, etc. and so on. For many, many people that alone makes it a better choice than Komodo or pretty much anything else. I don't think an experienced emacs user and Perl coder will want to switch to it for their core programming, but it's certainly nice to have a good GUI and debugging tools for the parts of a project that might lie a bit outside one's area of expertise. On Wed Nov 15 3:29 , Michele Beltrame [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent: Hello! I use a strange combination of vim+gvim+gedit but I find it fits my needs perfectly. Some developers in my company who want something resembling a good-looking IDE use Aptana (Eclipse based), which ain't bad. Michele. -- Michele Beltrame http://www.varlogarthas.net/ ICQ# 76660101 Informativa privacy: http://www.italpro.net/em.html ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
TCB wrote: I don't use OS X but one caveat with Eclipse if you decide to check it out, you need to use Sun java, not anything else. Getting rid of the gnu java emulation and getting 'real' java on a debian box was a minor pain, while getting it onto an OpenBSD machine was easy but took a very long time to compile. Not having to deal with java is yet another reason to stick to emacs, IMHO. Last time I tried it, eclipse apt-get installs fine on debian testing, and runs fine on free java. Jules (PS there is no java trap any more...) ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
Max Afonov wrote:
If Java-trapped Eclipse is that tool, then be it.
Eclipse runs perfectly with GCJ (compiled to native code) or GIJ
(interpreted). The Java Trap doesn't apply to Eclipse.
--
package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)-config(name = do {
$,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
;$;]-[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;-setup;
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Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hesitate to ask this question because it seems to often result in some juvenille flame war. Everyone is different, with different needs and preferences. That's why we have choices. It's Perl after all, right? [grin] With that out of the way, what IDE or editor works well for you? My default has been VIM since I'm really comfortable in it and can edit text really fast with it. However, as a very visual person, I find it cumbersome when having to flip back and forth between all of the files. This is especially true since I'm new to Catalyst and don't have everything solidified in my head. As a side note, I work on OS X, so any references to Windows-only programs won't really be useful but may be for others who come accross this thread. I'm mostly just interested in what has worked for you (and will take everything with that grain of salt), not what is crappy about other programs. Many thanks in advance, Conan. OSX? TextMate, TextWrangler, BBEddit. In that order. :-) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hesitate to ask this question because it seems to often result in some juvenille flame war. Everyone is different, with different needs and preferences. That's why we have choices. It's Perl after all, right? [grin] With that out of the way, what IDE or editor works well for you? My default has been VIM since I'm really comfortable in it and can edit text really fast with it. However, as a very visual person, I find it cumbersome when having to flip back and forth between all of the files. This is especially true since I'm new to Catalyst and don't have everything solidified in my head. As a side note, I work on OS X, so any references to Windows-only programs won't really be useful but may be for others who come accross this thread. I'm mostly just interested in what has worked for you (and will take everything with that grain of salt), not what is crappy about other programs. Many thanks in advance, Conan. For vim I use the MiniBuffExplorer plugin and split windows - give you tab like interface, and is faster than gvim7's own tabs IMO. Ash ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
Ash Berlin wrote:
For vim I use the MiniBuffExplorer plugin and split windows - give you
tab like interface, and is faster than gvim7's own tabs IMO.
emacs' iswitchb mode is much nicer, as is cperl-mode :)
Also, you can test your web applications right in your editor, thanks
the the built-in browser (and shell). And a built-in IRC client means
that support inquiries are never more than a C-x o away. ;)
emacs++
--
package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)-config(name = do {
$,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
;$;]-[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;-setup;
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Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
Eclipse might do you with the Perl plugin (EPIC) and other plugins (subversion for example)Unfortunately, there isn't a plugin for catalyst as there is for RoR :((that's a disguised hint at anyone who's interested in writing one) ;) lol[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hesitate to ask this question because it seems to often result insome juvenille flame war. Everyone is different, with different needsand preferences. That's why we have choices. It's Perl after all,right? [grin]With that out of the way, what IDE or editor works well for you?My default has been VIM since I'm really comfortable in it and canedit text really fast with it. However, as a very visual person, Ifind it cumbersome when having to flip back and forth between all ofthe files. This is especially true since I'm new to Catalyst anddon't have everything solidified in my head.As a side note, I work on OS X, so any references to Windows-onlyprograms won't really be useful but may be for others who come accrossthis thread.I'm mostly just interested in what has worked for you (and will takeeverything with that grain of salt), not what is crappy about otherprograms.Many thanks in advance,Conan.___List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.orgListinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalystSearchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
On Nov 14, 2006, at 8:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hesitate to ask this question because it seems to often result in some juvenille flame war. Everyone is different, with different needs and preferences. That's why we have choices. It's Perl after all, right? [grin] With that out of the way, what IDE or editor works well for you? My default has been VIM since I'm really comfortable in it and can edit text really fast with it. However, as a very visual person, I find it cumbersome when having to flip back and forth between all of the files. This is especially true since I'm new to Catalyst and don't have everything solidified in my head. As a side note, I work on OS X, so any references to Windows-only programs won't really be useful but may be for others who come accross this thread. I'm mostly just interested in what has worked for you (and will take everything with that grain of salt), not what is crappy about other programs. I mostly use Emacs (X11 build, rather than Aqua build) but kinda like TextMate too. Cheers, Steve ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
A few of my fellow Perl developers here have adopted Eclipse as their IDE of choice. Coupled with http://e-p-i-c.sf.net/ and it's fabulous CVS/SVN support it's a perfect tool for those who like to see 'the big picture'. Christopher H. Laco wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hesitate to ask this question because it seems to often result in some juvenille flame war. Everyone is different, with different needs and preferences. That's why we have choices. It's Perl after all, right? [grin] With that out of the way, what IDE or editor works well for you? My default has been VIM since I'm really comfortable in it and can edit text really fast with it. However, as a very visual person, I find it cumbersome when having to flip back and forth between all of the files. This is especially true since I'm new to Catalyst and don't have everything solidified in my head. As a side note, I work on OS X, so any references to Windows-only programs won't really be useful but may be for others who come accross this thread. I'm mostly just interested in what has worked for you (and will take everything with that grain of salt), not what is crappy about other programs. Many thanks in advance, Conan. OSX? TextMate, TextWrangler, BBEddit. In that order. :-) ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ MLB.com: Where Baseball is Always On ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
I've been messing a bit with this of late myself. I've tried using Eclipse (www.eclipse.org) for a while with the (quite nice) Perl plug-in, mostly because it let me work on both XP boxes and *nix machines pretty easily with a nearly identical user experience. Also, if you have to work with databases the SQL Explorer plugin is really quite good, and there's a subversion plug-in as well. However, for the actual Perl I'm more and more back using xemacs and using Eclipse just as a SQL visual query/edit tool like Toad. I don't use OS X but one caveat with Eclipse if you decide to check it out, you need to use Sun java, not anything else. Getting rid of the gnu java emulation and getting 'real' java on a debian box was a minor pain, while getting it onto an OpenBSD machine was easy but took a very long time to compile. Not having to deal with java is yet another reason to stick to emacs, IMHO. TCB On Tue Nov 14 10:25 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent: I hesitate to ask this question because it seems to often result in some juvenille flame war. Everyone is different, with different needs and preferences. That's why we have choices. It's Perl after all, right? [grin] With that out of the way, what IDE or editor works well for you? My default has been VIM since I'm really comfortable in it and can edit text really fast with it. However, as a very visual person, I find it cumbersome when having to flip back and forth between all of the files. This is especially true since I'm new to Catalyst and don't have everything solidified in my head. As a side note, I work on OS X, so any references to Windows-only programs won't really be useful but may be for others who come accross this thread. I'm mostly just interested in what has worked for you (and will take everything with that grain of salt), not what is crappy about other programs. Many thanks in advance, Conan. ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
Max Afonov wrote: Now the funny part is that you did NOT recommend Eclipse after all! I'm really really picky about my editors. I've used Textpad on Windows forever, and recently SCite. What I look for in an editor is that the toolbar is slim, but I have a lot of options under hood. For me, those options have to be the ability to change these things per file type: syntax coloring tab/space stop/size default encoding (UTF8, UTF16, OEM, Latin) default endings (LF, CRLF, CR) write/or not write the BOM (Byte Order Marker) This last 3 always seemed to trip me up in Eclipse/EPIC inthe early 3.0 days...and of course, Eclipse was always slow for me.. compared to Textpad/Scite. Back when I owned a working mac (91-96), I was BBEdit all the way. And when I get my next Mac, I'm sure I'll be all about TextMate. -=Chris signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
Christopher H. Laco wrote: I'm really really picky about my editors. I've used Textpad on Windows forever, and recently SCite. What I look for in an editor is that the toolbar is slim, but I have a lot of options under hood. [snip] Eclipse was always slow for me.. compared to Textpad/Scite. And this is exactly why I still use vim as my primary editor. It goes well with my cowboy-style coding practices. It runs everywhere. It works over slow and/or unreliable links (Pocket PC and bluetooth/GPRS, anyone?). And so much more. However... Back when I owned a working mac (91-96), I was BBEdit all the way. And when I get my next Mac, I'm sure I'll be all about TextMate. ...TextMate is a great application that is very much in keeping with core Mac UI guidelines. I tried using it for a few projects, and I have to say that it's excellent. But here's what I don't like about TextMate: it's not free. Not meaning to sound cheap and nitpicking, but how can a tool that's trying to cater to open source developers not be free? *stopped rant, prepared to be flamed* -=Chris MLB.com: Where Baseball is Always On ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I hesitate to ask this question because it seems to often result in some juvenille flame war. Everyone is different, with different needs and preferences. That's why we have choices. It's Perl after all, right? [grin] With that out of the way, what IDE or editor works well for you? jedit eloy -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] jak to dobrze, że są oceany - bez nich byłoby jeszcze smutniej ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
Ian Docherty wrote: Have you looked at UltraEdit for Windows (unfortunately no version for Linux) http://www.ultraedit.com/ I think it gives you everything you listed and more. Regards Ian Docherty Last time I tried it, I hated it. Felt like the interface was too busy...and from Windows 3.11. Now that it's up to 12, maybe it's worth another shot... signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
Max Afonov wrote:
...TextMate is a great application that is very much in keeping with
core Mac UI guidelines. I tried using it for a few projects, and I have
to say that it's excellent. But here's what I don't like about TextMate:
it's not free. Not meaning to sound cheap and nitpicking, but how can a
tool that's trying to cater to open source developers not be free?
Exactly. Somewhat like this:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
I say forget about TextMate. emacs isn't as nice looking (arguably),
but it's tons more functional. TextMate is really basic, but emacs has
some very advanced modes. (nxml-mode was written by a designer of XML,
so it's really good at what it does. c-mode has been perfected by
hundreds of the best C programmers. cperl-mode was PPI before PPI
existed. even TT mode, CSS-mode, svk mode, etc. are great.) The
disadvantage is that you have to RTFM. If you're not doing that,
though, why are you programming?
Here's the emacs wiki. Enjoy: http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki
(And yes, their wiki is written in Perl.)
--
package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)-config(name = do {
$,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
;$;]-[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;-setup;
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Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
Christopher H. Laco wrote: Ian Docherty wrote: Have you looked at UltraEdit for Windows (unfortunately no version for Linux) http://www.ultraedit.com/ I think it gives you everything you listed and more. Regards Ian Docherty Last time I tried it, I hated it. Felt like the interface was too busy...and from Windows 3.11. Now that it's up to 12, maybe it's worth another shot... Yup. Still hate it. :-) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
Christopher H. Laco [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Christopher H. Laco wrote: Ian Docherty wrote: Have you looked at UltraEdit for Windows (unfortunately no version for Linux) http://www.ultraedit.com/ I think it gives you everything you listed and more. Regards Ian Docherty Last time I tried it, I hated it. Felt like the interface was too busy...and from Windows 3.11. Now that it's up to 12, maybe it's worth another shot... Yup. Still hate it. :-) Try jedit (dev version), http://www.jedit.org/ It has everything I need and everything you mentioned. So far I only miss subversion plugin. It looks on my desktop like http://kofeina.net/eloy/desktop/_thumbs/jedit.png.html Disadvantage: it's written in java+swing. I don't mind. eloy -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] jak to dobrze, że są oceany - bez nich byłoby jeszcze smutniej ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
Ian Docherty wrote: Have you looked at UltraEdit for Windows (unfortunately no version for Linux) I am a long time devotee of EditPad Pro, which DOES have a (non-free) Linux version. I'm just about as handy with vim, since I spend a lot of time working over ssh, but when it comes down to hardcore coding, I prefer EditPad. It won me over with robust regex support and tabs before either were common on Windows. Of course I haven't auditioned another text editor in at least five years. Of course, it's not POD-aware, which screws with the syntax coloring a bit. And, as I said, it's not free. JT ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
Jonathan Rockway wrote: Exactly. Somewhat like this: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html We could be slipping off topic here because I was talking about TextMate not being free as in parking as opposed to Free as in beer. That is not to say that I do not subscribe anymore to this model of total and unconditional freedom that Mr. Stallman likes to preach. The point here is that you can use whatever gets you where you want to go. If Java-trapped Eclipse is that tool, then be it. What really annoys me is the fact that you have to pay for a tool that's geared towards OSS development. Many such OSS developers are barely getting by anyway. Nobody is forcing them to pay for or even consider using TextMate, but this is just a weird business model that I don't understand. I say forget about TextMate. emacs isn't as nice looking (arguably), but it's tons more functional. TextMate is really basic, but emacs has some very advanced modes. Emacs and Eclipse, and even vim to a certain degree, are platforms that can be either used as simple editors, or morphed by the user into comprehensive development environments. Unfortunately for many, these platforms are like DIY remote-controlled car kits: assembly is required. I've stumbled upon something called Eclipse for LAMP, but I don't know how close that comes to an out-of-the-box kind of deal. MLB.com: Where Baseball is Always On ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] IDE/editor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: I hesitate to ask this question because it seems to often result in some juvenille flame war. Everyone is different, with different needs and preferences. That's why we have choices. It's Perl after all, right? [grin] With that out of the way, what IDE or editor works well for you? My default has been VIM since I'm really comfortable in it and can edit text really fast with it. However, as a very visual person, I find it cumbersome when having to flip back and forth between all of the files. This is especially true since I'm new to Catalyst and don't have everything solidified in my head. As a side note, I work on OS X, so any references to Windows-only programs won't really be useful but may be for others who come accross this thread. I'm mostly just interested in what has worked for you (and will take everything with that grain of salt), not what is crappy about other programs. Many thanks in advance, Conan. ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ I've learned vim in the Unix class (1st year at university), and used it ever since on Linux. I like it on X11, where I can have something around 130x100 chars and 4+ windows in the same terminal. On Windows I tried various editors and came to like Crimson Editor. It has easily customizable syntax highlighting, it is pod-aware and lets your create projects, which are nothing more than a structured bunch of files but are useful nonetheless. -- Marcello Romani Responsabile IT Ottotecnica s.r.l. http://www.ottotecnica.com ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
