Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
On Tuesday 10 July 2007 12:02:39 pm J. Shirley wrote:
Right, and the people who use prototype are aware of the deficiencies
and work around them. They're not asking for support :) Marcus is a
smart guy, as evidenced continuously, but I'll never know why he uses
prototype :)
Likely because none of the other frameworks existed when he was getting
started with MojoMojo.
--
package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)-config(name = do {
$,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
;$;]-[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;-setup;
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Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
--- John Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/10/07, J. Shirley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/10/07, John Napiorkowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's been said by others but I really prefer to do all this in my templates. It would be easy to have this in a Template Toolkit plugin if you wanted, but I can't see the value of basically using perl as a code generator for Javascript. I prefer to be closer to the original API. But that's my choice :) --john Agreed, but I sometimes doubt the practicality of this when attracting new users. Folks who are comfortable with full-spectrum development (setting up Apache, FastCGI/MP, Catalyst, their templating, DBs) are the minority. A significant number of users are copy'n'paste-based. They take code that works, and include it in their own app and continue until they get the product they want. Without helpers, we're going to be stuck with people asking about the JS-toolkit that does have a helper. The only way I think we can help promote a better path is to make it just as easy to use a better JS kit. This means helpers, and TT macros and all that. The problem is that everybody who has the knowledge to do this, simply doesn't care to because they fundamentally view it as wrong or a waste of time (which I do as well, but I see the business case for the Catalyst project). I agree. I don't use Perl wrappers myself but think they would Catalyst more of a full solution and head off the Prototype.js questions we keep getting. Maybe let has out what a wiki entry for this topic could be like. I have a little spare time to help write it up. suggested topics could be: -- How do advanced JS libs integrate with Catalyst -- What are the recommended libraries -- What is the best place to turn for help -- What is the Catalyst roadmap in regards to this. What else do we think should be on there? --john Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
YES PLEASE. I have been waiting for this for a long time. Please make it happen soon, or I will be fired (for not getting ajax working). Thank you Cat Community. John Napiorkowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- John Wang wrote: On 7/10/07, J. Shirley wrote: On 7/10/07, John Napiorkowski wrote: It's been said by others but I really prefer to do all this in my templates. It would be easy to have this in a Template Toolkit plugin if you wanted, but I can't see the value of basically using perl as a code generator for Javascript. I prefer to be closer to the original API. But that's my choice :) --john Agreed, but I sometimes doubt the practicality of this when attracting new users. Folks who are comfortable with full-spectrum development (setting up Apache, FastCGI/MP, Catalyst, their templating, DBs) are the minority. A significant number of users are copy'n'paste-based. They take code that works, and include it in their own app and continue until they get the product they want. Without helpers, we're going to be stuck with people asking about the JS-toolkit that does have a helper. The only way I think we can help promote a better path is to make it just as easy to use a better JS kit. This means helpers, and TT macros and all that. The problem is that everybody who has the knowledge to do this, simply doesn't care to because they fundamentally view it as wrong or a waste of time (which I do as well, but I see the business case for the Catalyst project). I agree. I don't use Perl wrappers myself but think they would Catalyst more of a full solution and head off the Prototype.js questions we keep getting. Maybe let has out what a wiki entry for this topic could be like. I have a little spare time to help write it up. suggested topics could be: -- How do advanced JS libs integrate with Catalyst -- What are the recommended libraries -- What is the best place to turn for help -- What is the Catalyst roadmap in regards to this. What else do we think should be on there? --john Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ - 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
On 7/5/07, John Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/4/07, Jonathan Rockway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Prototype + Scriptaculous javascript framework is junk. It doesn't work very well, the syntax is terrible, it will break other javascript on the page just by being included, and the cool effects it includes aren't even very good. There is absolutely no reason to use Prototype. It might be useful to provide some specifics in helping people decide which JS framework to use. What do you mean by It doesn't work very well? Is this a performance issue (does it take a long time to load), a cross-browser issue (do more browsers not work compared to other JS frameworks), a security issue, etc.? What do you mean by the syntax is terrible? Is this regarding $() (which is also used by jQuery) or something else? When you say it will break other javascript on the page just by being included what kind of JS will break? Prototype.js was updated a while back to solve a lot of this. Have you run into this with a recent version of prototype.js? Do the other libraries have better cool effects? Which ones do you think are better in other libraries? Just trying to get some clarification. -- John Wang http://www.dev411.com/blog/ One must rate JavaScript libraries using a very objective scale. The categories I use are: 1) Robustness (quality of code) 2) Standardization (do they break existing standard JavaScript, other libs, proper encapsulation?) 3) Efficiency (execution and rendering speed) prototype.js and friends (scriptaculous, openrico, etc) are rated the lowest in those categories. It fails the robust check by having several things that don't play nice together, and also I've seen some serious cross-browser compatibility issues. Standardization is probably the biggest gripe people have with prototype.js. It doesn't encapsulate and clobbers existing objects or adds on to them in weird ways (like arrays). As an example, if you use some effects in scriptaculous, Google Maps fails to work because of their mouse capturing code. Efficiency I'm not sure of, really. I've never bothered to check because the other two categoreis are so dismally rated. It's safe to say that inside of the Catalyst community, you will get absolutely zero support if you chose to use Prototype. You are free to ask, but you will get flamed for your choice. That's just the way it goes. If you want alternatives, here are the more favored solutions that have proven themselves to be of a quality Catalysters will bother assisting with: * Dojo - http://www.dojotoolkit.org/ * YUI - http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/ * jQuery - http://www.jquery.com/ * Mootools - http://mootools.net * MochiKit - http://www.mochikit.com And, of course, there is Ext (http://www.extjs.com) which sits on top of YUI and jQuery (and hopefully Dojo soon... and unfortunately prototype.js, but it's a good way of getting your code away from prototype and onto something higher quality.) and is more of a widget. Picking a quality JS lib is just as important as picking a quality framework. -J. ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
On 7/10/07, J. Shirley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: prototype.js and friends (scriptaculous, openrico, etc) are rated the lowest in those categories. It fails the robust check by having several things that don't play nice together, and also I've seen some serious cross-browser compatibility issues. Standardization is probably the biggest gripe people have with prototype.js. It doesn't encapsulate and clobbers existing objects or adds on to them in weird ways (like arrays). As an example, if you use some effects in scriptaculous, Google Maps fails to work because of their mouse capturing code. Good to know. Do you know which Scriptaculous effects break Google Maps? It will be useful for planning for the future. It's safe to say that inside of the Catalyst community, you will get absolutely zero support if you chose to use Prototype. You are free to ask, but you will get flamed for your choice. That's just the way it goes. Some of the larger Catalyst-based sites use prototype (or parts of prototype) but the ones I've seen don't use Google Maps. Those projects also don't ask for prototype help from the Catalyst community. I think some of the flames given for prototype usage also prevent others from providing assistance. As you say, that's just the way it goes. If you want alternatives, here are the more favored solutions that have proven themselves to be of a quality Catalysters will bother assisting with: * Dojo - http://www.dojotoolkit.org/ * YUI - http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/ * jQuery - http://www.jquery.com/ * Mootools - http://mootools.net * MochiKit - http://www.mochikit.com And, of course, there is Ext (http://www.extjs.com) which sits on top of YUI and jQuery (and hopefully Dojo soon... and unfortunately prototype.js, but it's a good way of getting your code away from prototype and onto something higher quality.) and is more of a widget. Picking a quality JS lib is just as important as picking a quality framework. I think one reason prototype keeps coming up is because HTML::Prototype exists and is the only wrapper providing Perl access to JS effects. HTML::Prototype doesn't seem to have a lot of functionality in it but it can get some small things going fast. If a HTML::$other_js_lib was created, especially with the same API, Prototype usage would probably stop. A HTML::JQuery might be useful. Just a thought. -- John Wang http://www.dev411.com/blog/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
--- John Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/10/07, J. Shirley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: prototype.js and friends (scriptaculous, openrico, etc) are rated the lowest in those categories. It fails the robust check by having several things that don't play nice together, and also I've seen some serious cross-browser compatibility issues. Standardization is probably the biggest gripe people have with prototype.js. It doesn't encapsulate and clobbers existing objects or adds on to them in weird ways (like arrays). As an example, if you use some effects in scriptaculous, Google Maps fails to work because of their mouse capturing code. Good to know. Do you know which Scriptaculous effects break Google Maps? It will be useful for planning for the future. It's safe to say that inside of the Catalyst community, you will get absolutely zero support if you chose to use Prototype. You are free to ask, but you will get flamed for your choice. That's just the way it goes. Some of the larger Catalyst-based sites use prototype (or parts of prototype) but the ones I've seen don't use Google Maps. Those projects also don't ask for prototype help from the Catalyst community. I think some of the flames given for prototype usage also prevent others from providing assistance. As you say, that's just the way it goes. If you want alternatives, here are the more favored solutions that have proven themselves to be of a quality Catalysters will bother assisting with: * Dojo - http://www.dojotoolkit.org/ * YUI - http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/ * jQuery - http://www.jquery.com/ * Mootools - http://mootools.net * MochiKit - http://www.mochikit.com And, of course, there is Ext (http://www.extjs.com) which sits on top of YUI and jQuery (and hopefully Dojo soon... and unfortunately prototype.js, but it's a good way of getting your code away from prototype and onto something higher quality.) and is more of a widget. Picking a quality JS lib is just as important as picking a quality framework. I think one reason prototype keeps coming up is because HTML::Prototype exists and is the only wrapper providing Perl access to JS effects. HTML::Prototype doesn't seem to have a lot of functionality in it but it can get some small things going fast. If a HTML::$other_js_lib was created, especially with the same API, Prototype usage would probably stop. A HTML::JQuery might be useful. Just a thought. There is http://search.cpan.org/~peterg/JQuery-1.06/; which could meet those kinds of needs. It's been said by others but I really prefer to do all this in my templates. It would be easy to have this in a Template Toolkit plugin if you wanted, but I can't see the value of basically using perl as a code generator for Javascript. I prefer to be closer to the original API. But that's my choice :) --john -- John Wang http://www.dev411.com/blog/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
On 7/10/07, John Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good to know. Do you know which Scriptaculous effects break Google Maps? It will be useful for planning for the future. Sorry, was too long ago to remember the specifics... it was a mouseover event that attached to the document and thus blocked any events. It could even be fixed now. I remember a lot of prototype/scriptaculous events clobbered the events rather than appending to the event list. Some of the larger Catalyst-based sites use prototype (or parts of prototype) but the ones I've seen don't use Google Maps. Those projects also don't ask for prototype help from the Catalyst community. I think some of the flames given for prototype usage also prevent others from providing assistance. As you say, that's just the way it goes. Right, and the people who use prototype are aware of the deficiencies and work around them. They're not asking for support :) Marcus is a smart guy, as evidenced continuously, but I'll never know why he uses prototype :) -J. -- J. Shirley :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] :: Killing two stones with one bird... http://www.toeat.com ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
On Jul 10, 2007, at 12:35 PM, John Wang wrote: I think one reason prototype keeps coming up is because HTML::Prototype exists and is the only wrapper providing Perl access to JS effects. HTML::Prototype doesn't seem to have a lot of functionality in it but it can get some small things going fast. If a HTML::$other_js_lib was created, especially with the same API, Prototype usage would probably stop. A HTML::JQuery might be useful. Just a thought. http://search.cpan.org/~peterg/JQuery-1.06/ http://search.cpan.org/~cfranks/HTML-Dojo-0.0403.0/ http://search.cpan.org/~bct/CGI-Ajax-0.701/ -- Jason Kohles [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.jasonkohles.com/ A witty saying proves nothing. -- Voltaire ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
On 7/10/07, John Napiorkowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's been said by others but I really prefer to do all this in my templates. It would be easy to have this in a Template Toolkit plugin if you wanted, but I can't see the value of basically using perl as a code generator for Javascript. I prefer to be closer to the original API. But that's my choice :) --john Agreed, but I sometimes doubt the practicality of this when attracting new users. Folks who are comfortable with full-spectrum development (setting up Apache, FastCGI/MP, Catalyst, their templating, DBs) are the minority. A significant number of users are copy'n'paste-based. They take code that works, and include it in their own app and continue until they get the product they want. Without helpers, we're going to be stuck with people asking about the JS-toolkit that does have a helper. The only way I think we can help promote a better path is to make it just as easy to use a better JS kit. This means helpers, and TT macros and all that. The problem is that everybody who has the knowledge to do this, simply doesn't care to because they fundamentally view it as wrong or a waste of time (which I do as well, but I see the business case for the Catalyst project). -J. -- J. Shirley :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] :: Killing two stones with one bird... http://www.toeat.com ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
It's been said by others but I really prefer to do all this in my templates. It would be easy to have this in a Template Toolkit plugin if you wanted, but I can't see the value of basically using perl as a code generator for Javascript. I prefer to be closer to my sentiments exactly. Even if your perl is way better than your js, it's harder to debug js wrapped in perl than straight js. You usually have to face the underlying library sooner or later. -- Daniel McBrearty email : danielmcbrearty at gmail.com http://www.engoi.com http://danmcb.vox.com http://danmcb.blogger.com find me on linkedin and facebook BTW : 0873928131 ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
i may be the exception, but i have no hesitation in using perl (or other templating languages) to generate html, javascript, css, or even more perl. it may be harder to debug, but the productivity gains are worth it. i think RoR's rjs stuff is really keen, too. On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:08 AM, Daniel McBrearty wrote: It's been said by others but I really prefer to do all this in my templates. It would be easy to have this in a Template Toolkit plugin if you wanted, but I can't see the value of basically using perl as a code generator for Javascript. I prefer to be closer to my sentiments exactly. Even if your perl is way better than your js, it's harder to debug js wrapped in perl than straight js. You usually have to face the underlying library sooner or later. -- Daniel McBrearty ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
--- Daniel McBrearty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's been said by others but I really prefer to do all this in my templates. It would be easy to have this in a Template Toolkit plugin if you wanted, but I can't see the value of basically using perl as a code generator for Javascript. I prefer to be closer to my sentiments exactly. Even if your perl is way better than your js, it's harder to debug js wrapped in perl than straight js. You usually have to face the underlying library sooner or later. In the case of toolkits like jquery or YUI, what you end up with is a perl code generator that build JS which is using another JS layer library to smooth over browser compatibility issues... --john -- Daniel McBrearty email : danielmcbrearty at gmail.com http://www.engoi.com http://danmcb.vox.com http://danmcb.blogger.com find me on linkedin and facebook BTW : 0873928131 ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
On 7/10/07, Jason Kohles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 10, 2007, at 12:35 PM, John Wang wrote: I think one reason prototype keeps coming up is because HTML::Prototype exists and is the only wrapper providing Perl access to JS effects. HTML::Prototype doesn't seem to have a lot of functionality in it but it can get some small things going fast. If a HTML::$other_js_lib was created, especially with the same API, Prototype usage would probably stop. A HTML::JQuery might be useful. Just a thought. http://search.cpan.org/~peterg/JQuery-1.06/ http://search.cpan.org/~cfranks/HTML-Dojo-0.0403.0/ http://search.cpan.org/~bct/CGI-Ajax-0.701/ I haven't used any of these but from looking at the POD, I think HTML::Prototype may be the most attractive to new users. In JQuery, the following seems strange to me and not like conventional Perl style that I've seen. Should this style of coding be recommended? my $clickmenu = JQuery::ClickMenu-new( remoteProgram = '/cgi-bin/jquery_clickmenu_results.pl' ... HTML::Dojo seems to just load the js includes for you. I don't it lets you access any of the effects through Perl. CGI::Ajax doesn't say whether it's built off a JS lib or not but I'm guessing it's not. Because of the above, I think HTML::Prototype is probably the best Perl option of the four. Just my two cents from reading the POD. -- John Wang http://www.dev411.com/blog/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
On 7/10/07, J. Shirley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/10/07, John Napiorkowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's been said by others but I really prefer to do all this in my templates. It would be easy to have this in a Template Toolkit plugin if you wanted, but I can't see the value of basically using perl as a code generator for Javascript. I prefer to be closer to the original API. But that's my choice :) --john Agreed, but I sometimes doubt the practicality of this when attracting new users. Folks who are comfortable with full-spectrum development (setting up Apache, FastCGI/MP, Catalyst, their templating, DBs) are the minority. A significant number of users are copy'n'paste-based. They take code that works, and include it in their own app and continue until they get the product they want. Without helpers, we're going to be stuck with people asking about the JS-toolkit that does have a helper. The only way I think we can help promote a better path is to make it just as easy to use a better JS kit. This means helpers, and TT macros and all that. The problem is that everybody who has the knowledge to do this, simply doesn't care to because they fundamentally view it as wrong or a waste of time (which I do as well, but I see the business case for the Catalyst project). I agree. I don't use Perl wrappers myself but think they would Catalyst more of a full solution and head off the Prototype.js questions we keep getting. -- John Wang http://www.dev411.com/blog/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
On Thu, Jul 05, 2007 at 06:23:21AM +0300, vb wrote: There is absolutely no reason to use Prototype. The Prototype + Scriptaculous javascript framework is junk. There is absolutely no reason to use... Prototype + Scriptaculous It doesn't work very well, the syntax is terrible, it will break other javascript on the page just by being included This is not true, for prototype.js (including the syntax wich is as it is in OO-javaScript...). I have a working application in which is used prototype.js, tinyMCE.js, tabber.js (from Patrick Fitzgerald) with Catalyst and TT. Many complex applications (and widgets) exists, based on prototype.js. Complex applications can be written using shit tools. It doesn't stop them being shit. -- Matt S Trout Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project? Technical DirectorWant a managed development or deployment platform? Shadowcat Systems Ltd. Contact mst (at) shadowcatsystems.co.uk for a quote http://chainsawblues.vox.com/ http://www.shadowcatsystems.co.uk/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
On 7/4/07, Jonathan Rockway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Prototype + Scriptaculous javascript framework is junk. It doesn't work very well, the syntax is terrible, it will break other javascript on the page just by being included, and the cool effects it includes aren't even very good. There is absolutely no reason to use Prototype. It might be useful to provide some specifics in helping people decide which JS framework to use. What do you mean by It doesn't work very well? Is this a performance issue (does it take a long time to load), a cross-browser issue (do more browsers not work compared to other JS frameworks), a security issue, etc.? What do you mean by the syntax is terrible? Is this regarding $() (which is also used by jQuery) or something else? When you say it will break other javascript on the page just by being included what kind of JS will break? Prototype.js was updated a while back to solve a lot of this. Have you run into this with a recent version of prototype.js? Do the other libraries have better cool effects? Which ones do you think are better in other libraries? Just trying to get some clarification. -- John Wang http://www.dev411.com/blog/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
On Thursday 28 June 2007 07:33:57 am vb wrote:
HTML::Prototype is the Matt's Script Archive of javascript.
possible, but don't confuse with prototype.js.
Same difference. The Prototype + Scriptaculous javascript framework is junk.
It doesn't work very well, the syntax is terrible, it will break other
javascript on the page just by being included, and the cool effects it
includes aren't even very good. There is absolutely no reason to use
Prototype.
Mochikit, Dojo, Mootools, Jquery, etc. will treat you much better. (I like
Jemplate also, but that's not a framework per-se'.)
A solution: use prototype.js as is, and not from HTML::Prototype!
This is the right idea. Put your javascript in .js files, include those in
the page, etc. Catalyst/Perl doesn't need to deal with your Javascript.
Just treat it as static content (the library) or HTML (hooks in the
document).
If you want AJAX stuff, I recommend building a JSON/REST interface with
Catalyst::Action::REST and using one of the above frameworks to talk to it.
With Jemplate, you can render your TT templates client-side, which is always
fun.
--
package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)-config(name = do {
$,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
;$;]-[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;-setup;
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Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
There is absolutely no reason to use Prototype.
The Prototype + Scriptaculous javascript framework is junk.
There is absolutely no reason to use... Prototype + Scriptaculous
It doesn't work very well, the syntax is terrible, it will break other
javascript on the page just by being included
This is not true, for prototype.js (including the syntax wich is as it is
in OO-javaScript...).
I have a working application in which is used prototype.js, tinyMCE.js,
tabber.js (from Patrick Fitzgerald) with Catalyst and TT. Many complex
applications (and widgets) exists, based on prototype.js.
--vb
There is absolutely no reason to use Prototype.
On 7/5/07, Jonathan Rockway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thursday 28 June 2007 07:33:57 am vb wrote:
HTML::Prototype is the Matt's Script Archive of javascript.
possible, but don't confuse with prototype.js.
Same difference. The Prototype + Scriptaculous javascript framework is
junk.
It doesn't work very well, the syntax is terrible, it will break other
javascript on the page just by being included, and the cool effects it
includes aren't even very good. There is absolutely no reason to use
Prototype.
Mochikit, Dojo, Mootools, Jquery, etc. will treat you much better. (I
like
Jemplate also, but that's not a framework per-se'.)
A solution: use prototype.js as is, and not from HTML::Prototype!
This is the right idea. Put your javascript in .js files, include those
in
the page, etc. Catalyst/Perl doesn't need to deal with your Javascript.
Just treat it as static content (the library) or HTML (hooks in the
document).
If you want AJAX stuff, I recommend building a JSON/REST interface with
Catalyst::Action::REST and using one of the above frameworks to talk to
it.
With Jemplate, you can render your TT templates client-side, which is
always
fun.
--
package JAPH;use Catalyst qw/-Debug/;($;=JAPH)-config(name = do {
$,.=reverse qw[Jonathan tsu rehton lre rekca Rockway][$_].[split //,
;$;]-[$_].q; ;for 1..4;$,=~s;^.;;;$,});$;-setup;
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Re: [Catalyst] html::prototype syntax in new Cat version
HTML::Prototype is the Matt's Script Archive of javascript. possible, but don't confuse with prototype.js. (The engaged by a professional opinions is very important for my, but...) I having prob with Html::Prototype with Catalyst. A solution: use prototype.js as is, and not from HTML::Prototype! (could you see, which Version prototype.js is on your server? in HTML::Prototype prototype.js is of vesion 1.4) I'm not a professional, else I exercise to see that Prototype.js (1.5) IS a great javascript library (a framework, not a copy|paste widgets|effects library...); and it work very good with Catalyst (with TT, also with other JS lib's) - but I repeat: I'm a amateur (but... a very amateur!). --vb On 6/28/07, Matt S Trout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 09:48:33AM -0700, Will Smith wrote: Hi, This might be a pain in the neck to someone but please be patient if you read the mail. I having prob with Html::Prototype with Catalyst. It works like a champ with older version of Cat, but in the current version, the syntax might be a bit changed and I just cannot get it. HTML::Prototype is the Matt's Script Archive of javascript. Please move to CGI::FormBuilder or jquery or mochikit or dojo or someting decent. Prototype.js is a bad joke and nobody will touch it - you'd be as well asking for VBScript advice ... -- Matt S Trout Need help with your Catalyst or DBIx::Class project? Technical DirectorWant a managed development or deployment platform? Shadowcat Systems Ltd. Contact mst (at) shadowcatsystems.co.uk for a quote http://chainsawblues.vox.com/ http://www.shadowcatsystems.co.uk/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ ___ List: Catalyst@lists.rawmode.org Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
