RE: [cayugabirds-l] Target SNOW and JFK collisions

2013-12-11 Thread Marie P. Read 

Hmmm, one wouldn't guess that from all the downstate screaming fits about those 
beastly photographers! ;-)))

Marie


Marie Read Wildlife Photography
452 Ringwood Road
Freeville NY  13068 USA

Phone  607-539-6608
e-mail   m...@cornell.edu

http://www.marieread.com

***NEW***  Music of the Birds Vol 1 ebook for Apple iPad now available from 
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From: bounce-28204-5851...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-28204-5851...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Kevin J. McGowan 
[k...@cornell.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:50 AM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] Target SNOW and JFK collisions

Actually, Snowy Owls are hard to harass.  That’s one of the problems for 
airports trying to move them off the runways.  We watched the Syracuse airport 
people shooting shell-crackers at one of the owls perched right beside an 
active runway, and it didn’t even blink.  It was only when the truck parked 
right next to it that it flew.  And then, only about 100 yards away.

Kevin


From: bounce-28100-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-28100-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of John Cancalosi
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:28 AM
To: Kenneth V. Rosenberg
Cc: scotthab...@gmail.com; CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Target SNOW and JFK collisions

After hearing this report and watching a snowy owl at the Syracuse airport 
remain perched for hours while jets passed within meters makes me think that 
these birds can be extremely tolerant of human presence to put it mildly.

It reminds me of a situation in Lincolnshire, England where grey seals haul up 
to have their young on an RAF bombing range! Meanwhile planes are screaming by 
continuously. On non-bombing days visitors are allowed on the beach near the 
seals. One would think that this would be the end of the seals, but their 
population is expanding!

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg 
mailto:k...@cornell.edu>> wrote:
This bird, like virtually all Snowy Owls I've seen, was completely oblivious to 
our (or the many other people and cars) presence. At one point it flew down in 
a silent glide directly at Anne and me, almost grazing our shoulders as it dove 
into the ditch behind us (possibly after a Song Sparrow that was calling 
there); and then turned and flew right back to the same post. These owls are 
stressed, no doubt, by their forced dispersal in search of food, and many will 
unfortunately probably not make it, but an owl that takes up temporary 
residence in a Target parking lot during peak shopping hours is not going to 
feel harassed by a few birders peering up in awe at it.

KEN

Ken Rosenberg
Conservation Science Program
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
607-254-2412
607-342-4594 (cell)
k...@cornell.edu<mailto:k...@cornell.edu>

On Dec 11, 2013, at 8:47 AM, Scott Haber 
mailto:scotthab...@gmail.com>>
 wrote:


I think Kevin was suggesting that the owl "sliding" was a result of the bird 
attempting to perch on a steep, snow-covered incline, and not because it was 
terrified by a small group of birders standing at a respectful distance, but I 
guess he could be wrong.

-Scott

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 8:00 AM, John and Sue Gregoire 
mailto:k...@empacc.net>> wrote:
All,

1.Aren't we as a group harassing that TARGET Snowy? Seems every report has it
quickly flying off, relocating, sliding, or some such. Just my two cents.
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RE: [cayugabirds-l] Target SNOW and JFK collisions

2013-12-11 Thread Kevin J. McGowan 
Actually, Snowy Owls are hard to harass.  That's one of the problems for 
airports trying to move them off the runways.  We watched the Syracuse airport 
people shooting shell-crackers at one of the owls perched right beside an 
active runway, and it didn't even blink.  It was only when the truck parked 
right next to it that it flew.  And then, only about 100 yards away.

Kevin


From: bounce-28100-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-28100-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of John Cancalosi
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:28 AM
To: Kenneth V. Rosenberg
Cc: scotthab...@gmail.com; CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Target SNOW and JFK collisions

After hearing this report and watching a snowy owl at the Syracuse airport 
remain perched for hours while jets passed within meters makes me think that 
these birds can be extremely tolerant of human presence to put it mildly.

It reminds me of a situation in Lincolnshire, England where grey seals haul up 
to have their young on an RAF bombing range! Meanwhile planes are screaming by 
continuously. On non-bombing days visitors are allowed on the beach near the 
seals. One would think that this would be the end of the seals, but their 
population is expanding!

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg 
mailto:k...@cornell.edu>> wrote:
This bird, like virtually all Snowy Owls I've seen, was completely oblivious to 
our (or the many other people and cars) presence. At one point it flew down in 
a silent glide directly at Anne and me, almost grazing our shoulders as it dove 
into the ditch behind us (possibly after a Song Sparrow that was calling 
there); and then turned and flew right back to the same post. These owls are 
stressed, no doubt, by their forced dispersal in search of food, and many will 
unfortunately probably not make it, but an owl that takes up temporary 
residence in a Target parking lot during peak shopping hours is not going to 
feel harassed by a few birders peering up in awe at it.

KEN

Ken Rosenberg
Conservation Science Program
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
607-254-2412
607-342-4594 (cell)
k...@cornell.edu<mailto:k...@cornell.edu>

On Dec 11, 2013, at 8:47 AM, Scott Haber 
mailto:scotthab...@gmail.com>>
 wrote:


I think Kevin was suggesting that the owl "sliding" was a result of the bird 
attempting to perch on a steep, snow-covered incline, and not because it was 
terrified by a small group of birders standing at a respectful distance, but I 
guess he could be wrong.

-Scott

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 8:00 AM, John and Sue Gregoire 
mailto:k...@empacc.net>> wrote:
All,

1.Aren't we as a group harassing that TARGET Snowy? Seems every report has it
quickly flying off, relocating, sliding, or some such. Just my two cents.
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Re: [cayugabirds-l] Target SNOW and JFK collisions

2013-12-11 Thread John Cancalosi 
After hearing this report and watching a snowy owl at the Syracuse airport
remain perched for hours while jets passed within meters makes me think
that these birds can be extremely tolerant of human presence to put it
mildly.

It reminds me of a situation in Lincolnshire, England where grey seals haul
up to have their young on an RAF bombing range! Meanwhile planes are
screaming by continuously. On non-bombing days visitors are allowed on the
beach near the seals. One would think that this would be the end of the
seals, but their population is expanding!


On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote:

>  This bird, like virtually all Snowy Owls I've seen, was completely
> oblivious to our (or the many other people and cars) presence. At one point
> it flew down in a silent glide directly at Anne and me, almost grazing our
> shoulders as it dove into the ditch behind us (possibly after a Song
> Sparrow that was calling there); and then turned and flew right back to the
> same post. These owls are stressed, no doubt, by their forced dispersal in
> search of food, and many will unfortunately probably not make it, but an
> owl that takes up temporary residence in a Target parking lot during peak
> shopping hours is not going to feel harassed by a few birders peering up in
> awe at it.
>
>  KEN
>
>
>  Ken Rosenberg
> Conservation Science Program
> Cornell Lab of Ornithology
> 607-254-2412
> 607-342-4594 (cell)
> k...@cornell.edu
>
>  On Dec 11, 2013, at 8:47 AM, Scott Haber 
>  wrote:
>
>  I think Kevin was suggesting that the owl "sliding" was a result of the
> bird attempting to perch on a steep, snow-covered incline, and not because
> it was terrified by a small group of birders standing at a respectful
> distance, but I guess he could be wrong.
>
>  -Scott
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 8:00 AM, John and Sue Gregoire wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> 1.Aren't we as a group harassing that TARGET Snowy? Seems every report
>> has it
>> quickly flying off, relocating, sliding, or some such. Just my two cents.
>>
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Re: [cayugabirds-l] Target SNOW and JFK collisions

2013-12-11 Thread Kenneth V. Rosenberg 
This bird, like virtually all Snowy Owls I've seen, was completely oblivious to 
our (or the many other people and cars) presence. At one point it flew down in 
a silent glide directly at Anne and me, almost grazing our shoulders as it dove 
into the ditch behind us (possibly after a Song Sparrow that was calling 
there); and then turned and flew right back to the same post. These owls are 
stressed, no doubt, by their forced dispersal in search of food, and many will 
unfortunately probably not make it, but an owl that takes up temporary 
residence in a Target parking lot during peak shopping hours is not going to 
feel harassed by a few birders peering up in awe at it.

KEN


Ken Rosenberg
Conservation Science Program
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
607-254-2412
607-342-4594 (cell)
k...@cornell.edu

On Dec 11, 2013, at 8:47 AM, Scott Haber 
mailto:scotthab...@gmail.com>>
 wrote:

I think Kevin was suggesting that the owl "sliding" was a result of the bird 
attempting to perch on a steep, snow-covered incline, and not because it was 
terrified by a small group of birders standing at a respectful distance, but I 
guess he could be wrong.

-Scott


On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 8:00 AM, John and Sue Gregoire 
mailto:k...@empacc.net>> wrote:
All,

1.Aren't we as a group harassing that TARGET Snowy? Seems every report has it
quickly flying off, relocating, sliding, or some such. Just my two cents.
--
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Re: [cayugabirds-l] Target SNOW and JFK collisions

2013-12-11 Thread Scott Haber 
I think Kevin was suggesting that the owl "sliding" was a result of the
bird attempting to perch on a steep, snow-covered incline, and not because
it was terrified by a small group of birders standing at a respectful
distance, but I guess he could be wrong.

-Scott


On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 8:00 AM, John and Sue Gregoire wrote:

> All,
>
> 1.Aren't we as a group harassing that TARGET Snowy? Seems every report has
> it
> quickly flying off, relocating, sliding, or some such. Just my two cents.
>

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RE: [cayugabirds-l] Target SNOW and JFK collisions

2013-12-11 Thread Marie P. Read 
Regarding the following, I imagine that, in this era of relentless budget cuts, 
funding for a trap/release specialist would be an issue too. Cheaper to hire a 
hit-man…:-

Marie





Marie Read Wildlife Photography
452 Ringwood Road
Freeville NY  13068 USA

Phone  607-539-6608
e-mail   m...@cornell.edu

http://www.marieread.com

***NEW***  Music of the Birds Vol 1 ebook for Apple iPad now available from 
iTunes

http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/music-of-the-birds-v1/id529347014?mt=11

From: bounce-27071-5851...@list.cornell.edu 
[bounce-27071-5851...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of John and Sue Gregoire 
[k...@empacc.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 8:00 AM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l]  Target SNOW and JFK collisions

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Re: [cayugabirds-l] Target SNOW and JFK collisions

2013-12-11 Thread John and Sue Gregoire 
All,

1.Aren't we as a group harassing that TARGET Snowy? Seems every report has it
quickly flying off, relocating, sliding, or some such. Just my two cents.

2.Back in the 70s, I banded raptors at Cape May with Sammy Chevalier who was 
then
employed as bird control officer for JFK. He instituted and continued the trap,
band, relocate program for Snowys, Rough Legs and anything else deemed a danger 
to
itself or air traffic. The biggest problem then and now are geese, cowbirds and
starlings. Why JFK did not continue the program after Sammy retired is a 
mystery to
me.

Back to the present, I understand Gary's argument and as a former aviator even 
had a
bird strike once over Hawaii. It's scary and ain't pretty - even if the airframe
survives. We took ours in a radome so it just smelled bad and the aircraft had 
to be
taken out of service. Dave is correct in that aircraft hit birds and not the
opposite. However, it is impossible to see a bird in flight when you are going
several hundred mph;the first indicator is engine or hydraulic pressure loss.

The JFK trap/relocate program needs to be reinstated. The problem is training.
Finding a trained raptor biologist with banding experience with large birds 
will be
a challenge. There are very few banders experienced with Snowies let alone other
large raptors. One does not graduate from banding passerines or even crows to
raptors without training and time to gain experience. handling something like a 
SNOW
is quite a chore and if done sanely is a two person job.Unless JFK is very 
lucky, or
foolishly send out their current staff to do this, I don't see a quick solution.

John


-- 
John and Sue Gregoire
Field Ornithologists
Kestrel Haven Avian Migration Observatory
5373 Fitzgerald Road
Burdett,NY 14818-9626
 Website: http://www.empacc.net/~kestrelhaven/
"Conserve and Create Habitat"

On Wed, December 11, 2013 03:12, Linda Orkin wrote:
> Gary. I disagree with your analysis of this situation. JFK airport has been 
> there
> for a long time with many winters of Snowy Owl irruptions. It was mentioned 
> that in
> earlier years there was an actual expert there who did trap and relocate. So 
> what
> happened?
>
> There should have been a non-lethal management plan that could have been 
> instituted
> immediately upon arrival of the owls that would have insured the safety of 
> both
> planes and birds.  How could wildlife experts have been caught so unprepared 
> for an
> event that should have been easily anticipated based on historical 
> occurrences that
> all they could even imagine doing was exterminating these northern refugees?
>
> I am glad they were buried in an avalanche of public outrage.
>
>  I only wish people could be roused as easily on other issues such as the 
> Department
> of the Interior and the Obama administration's ill-considered variance to 
> allow
> Bald and Golden eagle kills at wind farms.
>
> Linda Orkin.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 10, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Gary Kohlenberg  wrote:
>
>> I to applaud the quick activism, but I want to point out that the Port 
>> Authority's
>> responsibility is safety for planes and passengers. I doubt anyone losing a 
>> loved
>> one in a plane crash would be comforted knowing it was caused by a cute 
>> Snowy Owl
>> instead of the more common Canada Goose. Boston and New York have two 
>> different
>> responses to the same situation, but the motivations are the same. I will 
>> hazard a
>> guess that the Port Authority felt a time constraint as they may not have 
>> had a
>> trapping / relocating program in place and the hazard is immediate. I don't 
>> think
>> anybody is calling for a relocating program for Canada Geese.  JFK airport 
>> is also
>> much busier than Logan, 7th vs 19th on the airport list.  I'm glad they will
>> change their response in the future.
>> Everyone should cut them just a little slack as the term "bird strike" is 
>> really
>> shorthand for " holy sh** if that bird had gone in the turbine we're toast " 
>> !
>> Jet turbines will and do suck in anything close, just ask the deck crew of 
>> any
>> aircraft carrier. The engine may not explode into bits with a bird intake, 
>> but it
>> will be wrecked. With any aircraft takeoff or landing is the most hazardous 
>> time
>> and that's not when the pilot wants to lose one or more engines.
>>
>> Happy Owl watching,
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2013, at 5:48 PM, Dave Nutter wrote:
>>
>> Thank-you, everyone, for compiling the information & (making) videos, and 
>> helping
>> the Port Authority mend their ways.
>> I was "struck" by one irony in the newscast, however. I'm familiar with the 
>> term
>> "bird-strike," and I had always considered it as shorthand for the pilot 
>> saying,
>> "We've struck a bird." Yet the news reporters and even Fitz talked about 
>> birds
>> striking airplanes. Let's be clear about the relationship. When the airplane 
>> is
>> sitting still, the bird does not slam into it the way a confused bird hits a