[cayugabirds-l] New Roots Cayuga wetland project

[John and Fritzie Blizzard]

When I first saw Dave Nutter's post about what the charter school 
teacher/students had in mind I was going to write almost what Phillip 
Bonn has written. All one has to do is look at May's pool to see how 
fast an area is overgrown & ruined by cattails. Think how quickly the 
Main pool has filled back in after the muskrats had all but wiped out 
cattails (on the surface) several yrs. ago. Now Tschache is showing 
signs of its invasiveness. I'm also noticing that Phragmites are being 
allowed to grow on the refuge.

Too many people get "ideas" that "sound good" but are anything BUT! To 
get them off their backs, those in authority who should know better, 
cave in  This is an issue, an idea, that needs more thought & more 
resistance from all of us birders.

Fritzie



On 11/10/2015 8:07 PM, Phillip Bonn wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I usually don’t reply to posts but this one really caught my attention.
>
> Cattails are highly invasive and spread by underground runners as well 
> as by seed. They can and will grow in areas you don’t want them and 
> create monocultures…not good for a wetlands project.
>
> I suggest that they plant something more beneficial to wildlife; 
> Arrowhead is a good choice, ducks love eating the roots, pickerel weed 
> is another good choice as are bulrushes or sedges. All these are low 
> growing emergent plants that supply vegetative cover and food.
>
> The Plantsman has some sedges/rushes they could purchase or check with 
> the Lab of O, see what they have planted in the pond, maybe they would 
> be willing to give them some root stock.
>
> Ask a wildlife biologist for input on what to plant other than 
> cattails, they might as well plant Phragmities!
>
> Anything but cattails!
>
>


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Re: [cayugabirds-l] New Roots Cayuga wetland project

[Nancy Cusumano]

There already is an active and quite healthy cat tail marsh in Hog's Hole,
where water flowing from the creek flows into the lake, thereby being
filtered by the cattails (if their logic follows). Might this be a place
they could conduct their study without adding cattails to the lake edge?
Just a thought.

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Learn more at cayugadogrescue.org

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Dave Nutter  wrote:

> I attended the BPW meeting yesterday evening and was able to hear the New
> Roots presentation and BPW discussion. The description was vague in some
> ways: it's unclear where the cattails would go. And I think it was
> erroneous and not well thought out in other ways. The BPW discussion was
> supportive anyway, and next meeting, two weeks from last night, BPW could
> decide to approve their request.
>
> The reason I think the Cayuga Bird Club should be involved is that we may
> be getting a cattail marsh in Stewart Park. That's a good thing for some
> species, but cattails grow tall & thick enough to block views, and
> depending on where it is located it could hide more currently viewable
> birds from us than it shows us. If it gets established along the lakeshore
> (I'm not sure it could) it could spread widely, block a lot (all?) of
> lakeviewing, and cause trouble to remove.
>
> The Swan Pond (Fuertes Bird Sanctuary) is a potential site which the
> Superintendent of Public Works supports off the top of his head. I suspect
> he considered the pond unused space, not a bird sanctuary. Cattails might
> fill up the entire pond and block views across the pond but also allow
> close viewing of the cattails from many angles. Establishment there seems
> more likely because they won't be destroyed by wave action, but it seems
> like a less useful location if New Roots is serious about studying how
> cattails filter water, since there is relatively little flow in and out of
> the Swan Pond.
>
> Suan & Ken, I assume you are the "others in the birding community" the
> principal refered to who have "been involved." Anyone else fit that
> description? Where exactly did you suggest the cattails should go, and why?
> Anyone else, do you have opinions?
>
> I sent the letter below to New Roots staff, the BPW, and Rick Manning. I
> tried to send it to CayugaBirds-L but I think the attachment from New Roots
> describing the project made it too large. Or it's just plain too long.
> Anyway I can send their proporal separately to anyone who is interested.
>
> --Dave Nutter
>
> - - - - - -
>
> Thanks for writing, Ms Nilsen-Hodges.
>
> I've been thinking about the proposal as written and as presented yesterday 
> to the BPW. I urge the sponsors at New Roots to review their reasoning, to 
> consider carefully what they are trying to accomplish, and, if they still 
> intend to create a cattail marsh at Stewart Park in summer 2016, to work with 
> the Cayuga Bird Club to identify a mutually agreeable site. I urge the Cayuga 
> Bird Club to identify where, if anywhere, in Stewart Park a cattail marsh 
> would be best for overall bird habitat and for overall viewing of birds 
> within the cattail marsh, and around the Fuertes Sanctuary / Swan Pond, and 
> on Cayuga Lake, considering the value of the existing birding opportunities 
> and the potential for uncontrolled expansion of a cattail marsh. And I urge 
> the BPW to delay approval until New Roots and the Cayuga Bird Club agree on a 
> location for the cattail marsh.
>
> The reasoning behind the project seems to be this: Swimming is fun. Therefore 
> we want to swim at Stewart Park. Swimming was banned decades ago at Stewart 
> Park. Therefore, pollution must be a problem. Cattails are used elsewhere for 
> some stage of sewage treatment. There is no longer a huge cattail marsh 
> filtering the water flowing into Cayuga Lake. But we can plant cattails in 
> the lake and a marsh will grow. This can solve the pollution problem (and 
> help birds, too). We will test the water before and after to show this. Then 
> we can swim at Stewart Park. The project can't do any harm, because cattails 
> are native, and nobody is using the lake there.
>
> Several facts are strung together by many assumptions. I question the 
> assumptions.
>
> I believe that the reason swimming has been banned at Stewart Park for 
> decades is not pollution. It is lifeguarding standards developed in the 20th 
> century after some bad experiences. The water at Stewart Park is shallow very 
> far out. Anyone in water deep enough to swim is too far from shore to be 
> rescued because one cannot get out there quickly by either swimming or 
> running. The viewing angle at that distance does not allow one to see into 
> the water. The bottom is muddy. Anyone wading or touching the bottom stirs up 
> silt. Waves stir it up, too, and every rainstorm brings another dose of silt. 
> A person underwater in the shallows off Stewart Park would be too 

RE:[cayugabirds-l] New Roots Cayuga wetland project

[Dave Nutter]

I attended the BPW meeting yesterday evening and was able to hear the New Roots 
presentation and BPW discussion. The description was vague in some ways: it's 
unclear where the cattails would go. And I think it was erroneous and not well 
thought out in other ways. The BPW discussion was supportive anyway, and next 
meeting, two weeks from last night, BPW could decide to approve their request.

The reason I think the Cayuga Bird Club should be involved is that we may be 
getting a cattail marsh in Stewart Park. That's a good thing for some species, 
but cattails grow tall & thick enough to block views, and depending on where it 
is located it could hide more currently viewable birds from us than it shows 
us. If it gets established along the lakeshore (I'm not sure it could) it could 
spread widely, block a lot (all?) of lakeviewing, and cause trouble to remove. 

The Swan Pond (Fuertes Bird Sanctuary) is a potential site which the 
Superintendent of Public Works supports off the top of his head. I suspect he 
considered the pond unused space, not a bird sanctuary. Cattails might fill up 
the entire pond and block views across the pond but also allow close viewing of 
the cattails from many angles. Establishment there seems more likely because 
they won't be destroyed by wave action, but it seems like a less useful 
location if New Roots is serious about studying how cattails filter water, 
since there is relatively little flow in and out of the Swan Pond.

Suan & Ken, I assume you are the "others in the birding community" the 
principal refered to who have "been involved." Anyone else fit that 
description? Where exactly did you suggest the cattails should go, and why? 
Anyone else, do you have opinions? 

I sent the letter below to New Roots staff, the BPW, and Rick Manning. I tried 
to send it to CayugaBirds-L but I think the attachment from New Roots 
describing the project made it too large. Or it's just plain too long. Anyway I 
can send their proporal separately to anyone who is interested.
--Dave Nutter

- - - - - -

Thanks for writing, Ms Nilsen-Hodges.

I've been thinking about the proposal as written and as presented yesterday to 
the BPW. I urge the sponsors at New Roots to review their reasoning, to 
consider carefully what they are trying to accomplish, and, if they still 
intend to create a cattail marsh at Stewart Park in summer 2016, to work with 
the Cayuga Bird Club to identify a mutually agreeable site. I urge the Cayuga 
Bird Club to identify where, if anywhere, in Stewart Park a cattail marsh would 
be best for overall bird habitat and for overall viewing of birds within the 
cattail marsh, and around the Fuertes Sanctuary / Swan Pond, and on Cayuga 
Lake, considering the value of the existing birding opportunities and the 
potential for uncontrolled expansion of a cattail marsh. And I urge the BPW to 
delay approval until New Roots and the Cayuga Bird Club agree on a location for 
the cattail marsh.

The reasoning behind the project seems to be this: Swimming is fun. Therefore 
we want to swim at Stewart Park. Swimming was banned decades ago at Stewart 
Park. Therefore, pollution must be a problem. Cattails are used elsewhere for 
some stage of sewage treatment. There is no longer a huge cattail marsh 
filtering the water flowing into Cayuga Lake. But we can plant cattails in the 
lake and a marsh will grow. This can solve the pollution problem (and help 
birds, too). We will test the water before and after to show this. Then we can 
swim at Stewart Park. The project can't do any harm, because cattails are 
native, and nobody is using the lake there.

Several facts are strung together by many assumptions. I question the 
assumptions.

I believe that the reason swimming has been banned at Stewart Park for decades 
is not pollution. It is lifeguarding standards developed in the 20th century 
after some bad experiences. The water at Stewart Park is shallow very far out. 
Anyone in water deep enough to swim is too far from shore to be rescued because 
one cannot get out there quickly by either swimming or running. The viewing 
angle at that distance does not allow one to see into the water. The bottom is 
muddy. Anyone wading or touching the bottom stirs up silt. Waves stir it up, 
too, and every rainstorm brings another dose of silt. A person underwater in 
the shallows off Stewart Park would be too difficult for a lifeguard to see. 
The water is too turbid. It's not safe.

When we Ithacans filled in a couple square miles of wetlands in order to build 
our city, we found that the land still flooded occasionally. So we channelized 
the streams, and we even dug out Cayuga Inlet to become the Flood Control 
Channel to send stormwater as rapidly as possible into the lake. In the lake 
that brown water spreads, slows, and drops its silt.

As mud builds up it makes a place for aquatic plants. Eventually a marsh might 
be regenerated through natural succession. Cattails are prolific 

Re: [cayugabirds-l] New Roots Cayuga wetland project

[Kenneth V. Rosenberg]

Dave et al.,

Having been outed, along with Suan, as the “others in the birding community,” 
I’ll just reiterate what Suan has already stated — that the two of us were 
approached while birding by the teachers from New Roots, that they briefly 
explained their idea for the student project and experiment, and that we 
informally suggested that if they were to plant cattails it might be better to 
start along the edge of the willows, rather than in an isolated stretch of the 
lakeshore. Our logic was that a marsh next to the woods could attract more 
birds.

But we also strongly suggested that (1) they make a presentation to the Cayuga 
Bird Club (Suan gave them all the contact names and emails), and (2) they 
consult the many expert resources at Cornell and elsewhere that are part of an 
entire scientific field of wetland restoration — I even gave them the name of a 
colleague who’s company has created some of the best restored wetlands in the 
U.S. including Wakodahatchie in FL and Sweetwater Wetlands in Tucson.

That’s about all I know. It seems like Dave has taken the time to address most 
of the issues in a very thoughtful way, and perhaps others in the Cayuga Bird 
Club will have other ideas. If I recall correctly, John Dennis is involved with 
the Cayuga Lake Watershed Network, and he may be able to offer suggestions as 
well.

KEN


Kenneth V. Rosenberg
Conservation Science Program
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
Office: 607-254-2412
cell: 607-342-4594
k...@cornell.edu

On Nov 10, 2015, at 7:02 PM, Dave Nutter 
> wrote:

I attended the BPW meeting yesterday evening and was able to hear the New Roots 
presentation and BPW discussion. The description was vague in some ways: it's 
unclear where the cattails would go. And I think it was erroneous and not well 
thought out in other ways. The BPW discussion was supportive anyway, and next 
meeting, two weeks from last night, BPW could decide to approve their request.

The reason I think the Cayuga Bird Club should be involved is that we may be 
getting a cattail marsh in Stewart Park. That's a good thing for some species, 
but cattails grow tall & thick enough to block views, and depending on where it 
is located it could hide more currently viewable birds from us than it shows 
us. If it gets established along the lakeshore (I'm not sure it could) it could 
spread widely, block a lot (all?) of lakeviewing, and cause trouble to remove.

The Swan Pond (Fuertes Bird Sanctuary) is a potential site which the 
Superintendent of Public Works supports off the top of his head. I suspect he 
considered the pond unused space, not a bird sanctuary. Cattails might fill up 
the entire pond and block views across the pond but also allow close viewing of 
the cattails from many angles. Establishment there seems more likely because 
they won't be destroyed by wave action, but it seems like a less useful 
location if New Roots is serious about studying how cattails filter water, 
since there is relatively little flow in and out of the Swan Pond.

Suan & Ken, I assume you are the "others in the birding community" the 
principal refered to who have "been involved." Anyone else fit that 
description? Where exactly did you suggest the cattails should go, and why? 
Anyone else, do you have opinions?

I sent the letter below to New Roots staff, the BPW, and Rick Manning. I tried 
to send it to CayugaBirds-L but I think the attachment from New Roots 
describing the project made it too large. Or it's just plain too long. Anyway I 
can send their proporal separately to anyone who is interested.

--Dave Nutter

- - - - - -

Thanks for writing, Ms Nilsen-Hodges.

I've been thinking about the proposal as written and as presented yesterday to 
the BPW. I urge the sponsors at New Roots to review their reasoning, to 
consider carefully what they are trying to accomplish, and, if they still 
intend to create a cattail marsh at Stewart Park in summer 2016, to work with 
the Cayuga Bird Club to identify a mutually agreeable site. I urge the Cayuga 
Bird Club to identify where, if anywhere, in Stewart Park a cattail marsh would 
be best for overall bird habitat and for overall viewing of birds within the 
cattail marsh, and around the Fuertes Sanctuary / Swan Pond, and on Cayuga 
Lake, considering the value of the existing birding opportunities and the 
potential for uncontrolled expansion of a cattail marsh. And I urge the BPW to 
delay approval until New Roots and the Cayuga Bird Club agree on a location for 
the cattail marsh.

The reasoning behind the project seems to be this: Swimming is fun. Therefore 
we want to swim at Stewart Park. Swimming was banned decades ago at Stewart 
Park. Therefore, pollution must be a problem. Cattails are used elsewhere for 
some stage of sewage treatment. There is no longer a huge cattail marsh 
filtering the water flowing into Cayuga Lake. But we can plant cattails in the 
lake and a