Re: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

2015-11-17 Thread David Wheeler 
I don't think it's a mixed message because no hunting and no discharge are
different. No discharge would include target shooting.

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015, Geo Kloppel  wrote:

> I was curious to know if DEC had made revisions to hunting regulations
> with respect to jurisdictional conflicts about waterfowl hunting. But DEC
> websites still seem to be giving waterfowl hunters mixed messages about the
> validity of local "no hunting" ordinances. For example, on this DEC web
> page it explicitly says that such ordinances are not valid:
>
> http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/40550.html
>
> "The State holds the authority to regulate hunting, and no lesser
> government can usurp that authority. Although "No Hunting" laws are not
> valid, they may nonetheless be on the books in some municipalities."
>
> But on the following DEC page, it says hunters must obey local "no
> discharge" ordinances:
>
> http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/94213.html
>
> "It is important that hunters be aware of and obey all State hunting laws,
> as well as any local discharge ordinances. When using public lands and
> waters, it is essential that hunters access these areas legally."
>
> Can it really be DEC's position that "no hunting" ordinances are not
> valid, but "no discharge" ordinances are valid?
>
> -Geo Kloppel
>
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RE: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

2015-11-17 Thread Gary Kohlenberg 
As I pointed out, in the email I bounced to the list, the 2005 city court 
challenge upheld the right of NYS to regulate lakeshore activity irrespective 
of any local ordinance. It concerned dog walkers, but presumably would apply 
equally to anyone ticketed for hunting.
I appreciate the clarity of purpose Jamie’s email from the city provides to our 
civil servants, I just want people not to automatically assume this is a 
settled issue. Of course if no hunter complains and the IPD runs people off the 
south end of the lake then it may be a done deal.

Gary

From: bounce-119905115-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-119905115-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Geo Kloppel
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:04 AM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L 
Subject: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

I was curious to know if DEC had made revisions to hunting regulations with 
respect to jurisdictional conflicts about waterfowl hunting. But DEC websites 
still seem to be giving waterfowl hunters mixed messages about the validity of 
local "no hunting" ordinances. For example, on this DEC web page it explicitly 
says that such ordinances are not valid:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/40550.html

"The State holds the authority to regulate hunting, and no lesser government 
can usurp that authority. Although "No Hunting" laws are not valid, they may 
nonetheless be on the books in some municipalities."

But on the following DEC page, it says hunters must obey local "no discharge" 
ordinances:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/94213.html


"It is important that hunters be aware of and obey all State hunting laws, as 
well as any local discharge ordinances. When using public lands and waters, it 
is essential that hunters access these areas legally."

Can it really be DEC's position that "no hunting" ordinances are not valid, but 
"no discharge" ordinances are valid?

-Geo Kloppel

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RE: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

2015-11-17 Thread John VanNiel 
Yes, I believe that is exactly what it means. For example, hunting can involve 
other implements besides guns. So a no firearms ban is not the same as a no 
hunting ban.

From: bounce-119905244-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-119905244-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Gary Kohlenberg
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:26 AM
To: geoklop...@gmail.com; CAYUGABIRDS-L <cayugabird...@list.cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

As I pointed out, in the email I bounced to the list, the 2005 city court 
challenge upheld the right of NYS to regulate lakeshore activity irrespective 
of any local ordinance. It concerned dog walkers, but presumably would apply 
equally to anyone ticketed for hunting.
I appreciate the clarity of purpose Jamie’s email from the city provides to our 
civil servants, I just want people not to automatically assume this is a 
settled issue. Of course if no hunter complains and the IPD runs people off the 
south end of the lake then it may be a done deal.

Gary

From: 
bounce-119905115-3493...@list.cornell.edu<mailto:bounce-119905115-3493...@list.cornell.edu>
 [mailto:bounce-119905115-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Geo Kloppel
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:04 AM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L 
<cayugabird...@list.cornell.edu<mailto:cayugabird...@list.cornell.edu>>
Subject: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

I was curious to know if DEC had made revisions to hunting regulations with 
respect to jurisdictional conflicts about waterfowl hunting. But DEC websites 
still seem to be giving waterfowl hunters mixed messages about the validity of 
local "no hunting" ordinances. For example, on this DEC web page it explicitly 
says that such ordinances are not valid:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/40550.html

"The State holds the authority to regulate hunting, and no lesser government 
can usurp that authority. Although "No Hunting" laws are not valid, they may 
nonetheless be on the books in some municipalities."

But on the following DEC page, it says hunters must obey local "no discharge" 
ordinances:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/94213.html

"It is important that hunters be aware of and obey all State hunting laws, as 
well as any local discharge ordinances. When using public lands and waters, it 
is essential that hunters access these areas legally."

Can it really be DEC's position that "no hunting" ordinances are not valid, but 
"no discharge" ordinances are valid?

-Geo Kloppel

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RE: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

2015-11-17 Thread Mary E. Winston 
Hi folks, would you mind taking this discussion to another form?
Thanks,
Mary

From: bounce-119906319-12723...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-119906319-12723...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Geo Kloppel
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 1:37 PM
To: John VanNiel <john.vann...@flcc.edu>
Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L <cayugabird...@list.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] DEC Mixed messages?

Hi John, Gary, David and all,

Then every municipality, village, town, city, county, borough, etcetera that 
wanted to get out from under the state's exclusive authority to regulate 
hunting could easily do so, because even though local "no hunting" ordinances 
are not valid, local "no discharge" ordinances would trump DEC's authority?

Did you know that Ithaca's "no discharge" code is not limited to firearms? It 
includes projectile weapons of diverse kinds (air guns, spring guns, 
slingshots, and any other instruments or weapons). If that's valid, then it 
achieves an effective ban on hunting by any means except perhaps running down 
your prey and throttling it with your bare hands! :-)

-Geo Kloppel

On Nov 17, 2015, at 10:32 AM, John VanNiel 
<john.vann...@flcc.edu<mailto:john.vann...@flcc.edu>> wrote:
Yes, I believe that is exactly what it means. For example, hunting can involve 
other implements besides guns. So a no firearms ban is not the same as a no 
hunting ban.

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