Re: [ccp4bb] PAIREF - Warning - not enough free reflections in resolution bin

2022-10-02 Thread Petr Kolenko
Dear Matt,
There are great responses in this thread already. There are several points and 
questions from my side:
1) I did not get clearly what exactly was done. Where did you start your paired 
refinement? What were the statistics for your starting resolution?
2) Did it improve all the way to the higher and higher resolution?
3) There is usually a little improvement in the electron density. Yet 
detectable. And in some cases, important.
4) PAIREF currently works in "isotropic" mode. We are not yet ready to work 
with diffraction anistropy. However, we are almost ready to submit an article 
on how to do it in future. If you were interested, you could contact me off the 
list.
5) I do not like the values of your Rmerge. Although using this statistic is  
already obsolete, I see a potential danger there. You have high values already 
in the LOWEST resolution shell. And it continuously grows up. Are you sure with 
your space group? Is it possible that you use higher than real symmetry? This 
would be my guess, but I may be wrong. Strong diffraction anisotropy may also 
play a role.
Feel free to ask further questions. Best regards,
Petr

-Original Message-
From: CCP4 bulletin board  On Behalf Of Matt McLeod
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2022 2:02 PM
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] PAIREF - Warning - not enough free reflections in 
resolution bin

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the suggestions there are a few different things I can try now.  
The data is very aniosotropic (STARANISO might help) in regards to how the 
crystal diffracts and I think changing the bin size will help specifically with 
PAIREF (its an warning so it completes the run).   I collected the data using 
oil and at room temperature using a vector scan so there are also differences 
in data quality through the collection (not too severe based on data 
processing), radiation damage, a changing background from oil, etc.  

However, diagnosing the problem further it seems that merging with AIMLESS 
throws a lot of my high resolution reflections out...like alot.  This explains 
why truncating the data doesnt change the maps and explains why my table 1 
statistics for high resolution bin are dismal.  I can supply log files when I 
find them.  Now I have to determine if the outlier rejections are useful or not 
and why DIALS processing didn't flag these as rejections.

I have yet to look into AIMLESS rejection outlier protocol but I would guess 
that the reflections are real at high resolution but there are not that many of 
them and they are not that redundant and therefore are being tossed.

Matt



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Re: [ccp4bb] PAIREF - Warning - not enough free reflections in resolution bin

2022-10-02 Thread Phil Evans
If AIMLESS is throwing out a lot of reflections, something is wrong. You should 
look closely at what is being rejected, in the list of “ROGUES” and the plot of 
position of outliers on the detector face

DIALS (probably dials.scale) has its own rejection scheme, as does XDS

There are two basic reasons for rejecting reflections 
1) they belong to part of the data collection where all data are unreliable, eg 
because of radiation damage
2) individual reflections which are “wrong” for some other reason, ice spots, 
detector defects, multiple lattices etc

There should never be “a lot” of outliers in category 2

Phil

> On 1 Oct 2022, at 13:02, Matt McLeod  wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone,
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions there are a few different things I can try 
> now.  The data is very aniosotropic (STARANISO might help) in regards to how 
> the crystal diffracts and I think changing the bin size will help 
> specifically with PAIREF (its an warning so it completes the run).   I 
> collected the data using oil and at room temperature using a vector scan so 
> there are also differences in data quality through the collection (not too 
> severe based on data processing), radiation damage, a changing background 
> from oil, etc.  
> 
> However, diagnosing the problem further it seems that merging with AIMLESS 
> throws a lot of my high resolution reflections out...like alot.  This 
> explains why truncating the data doesnt change the maps and explains why my 
> table 1 statistics for high resolution bin are dismal.  I can supply log 
> files when I find them.  Now I have to determine if the outlier rejections 
> are useful or not and why DIALS processing didn't flag these as rejections.
> 
> I have yet to look into AIMLESS rejection outlier protocol but I would guess 
> that the reflections are real at high resolution but there are not that many 
> of them and they are not that redundant and therefore are being tossed.
> 
> Matt
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link:
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> 
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