Re: [ccp4bb] [EXTERNAL] Re: [ccp4bb] AW: Going back to Coot 0.8
I believe Paul is trying to make the caffeine materialise directly in your bloodstreams. He seems to have forgotten that people actually like harvesting and roasing the coffee beans and folding the paper cup - so even if he figured out how to simulate the burning sensation in your throat as the hot coffee goes down, it would still frustrate a significant section of people. I suspect in the long term, we'll get comfortable with just the caffeine hit. On 09/09/2020 21:27, Schulz, Eike-Christian wrote: Hi Tim, I don't think that metaphor is quite correct. To me it seems that no matter what button you pushed you got coffee. In my opinion intuitive software is a blessing and should not easily be disregarded. But as I said before, I am happy to read into new stuff. Also there seem to be mixed experiences here. Might this be map-resolution related ? Best, Eike -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board on behalf of Georg Zocher Reply to: Georg Zocher Date: Wednesday, 9. September 2020 at 22:17 To: "CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] [EXTERNAL] Re: [ccp4bb] AW: Going back to Coot 0.8 Dear Herman, Am 09.09.2020 um 17:46 schrieb Schreuder, Herman /DE: > The old real-space refinement was intuitive and easy to use and did exactly what the user expected, without having to consult the manual! The result might not have been perfect, but was good enough for subsequent Refmac, Buster, Phenix refinement. That fits perfectly to my user experience with RSR in coot 0.8.x. and also explains why at least a number of people having some issues with the new RSR. All the best, Georg To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1 This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1 This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1 This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/
Re: [ccp4bb] [EXTERNAL] Re: [ccp4bb] AW: Going back to Coot 0.8
Indeed, and that is why testing new developments in courses is so important because there you get naïve users. Obviously, this has been very difficult this year. It is also exactly the reason why you do need to have developers at courses, not just power users. For those struggling to get used to Coot 0.9 there are few tips: 1) Drag atoms where you want them to go, not beyond where you want them. I.e. don't "overdrag" like you used to do in Coot. 2) Try to get close to the right answer first by rigid body movement. This is particularly useful for ligands. 3) Practice*. The C-termini in PDB entry 1ggx are nice to practice resisting to overdrag. Cheers, Robbie * Ling Ling practices 40 hours a day! > -Original Message- > From: CCP4 bulletin board On Behalf Of Tim > Gruene > Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 23:01 > To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK > Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] [EXTERNAL] Re: [ccp4bb] AW: Going back to Coot 0.8 > > Hi Eike, > > one of the points is that, only because you got used to a certain operation > (over many years after someone showed it to you), does not mean it is > intuitive. This could be judged by e.g. showing an ignorant user both > methods and let the person judge which one is easier to use... > > Cheers, > Tim > > On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 20:27:55 > + "Schulz, Eike-Christian" wrote: > > > Hi Tim, > > > > I don't think that metaphor is quite correct. To me it seems that no > > matter what button you pushed you got coffee. In my opinion intuitive > > software is a blessing and should not easily be disregarded. > > > > But as I said before, I am happy to read into new stuff. > > > > Also there seem to be mixed experiences here. Might this be > > map-resolution related ? > > > > Best, > > > > Eike > > > > > > > > -Original Message----- > > From: CCP4 bulletin board on behalf of Georg > > Zocher Reply to: Georg Zocher > > Date: Wednesday, 9. September 2020 at 22:17 > > To: "CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" > > Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] [EXTERNAL] Re: [ccp4bb] AW: Going back to Coot > > 0.8 > > > > Dear Herman, > > > > Am 09.09.2020 um 17:46 schrieb Schreuder, Herman /DE: > > > The old real-space refinement was intuitive and easy to use and > > > did exactly what the user expected, without having to consult > > > the manual! The result might not have been perfect, but was > > > good enough for subsequent Refmac, Buster, Phenix refinement. > > > > That fits perfectly to my user experience with RSR in coot 0.8.x. > > and also explains why at least a number of people having some issues > > with the new RSR. > > > > All the best, > > > > Georg > > > > > > > ### > ### > > ## > > > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1 > > > > This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a > > mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are > > available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ > > > > > > > ### > ### > > ## > > > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1 > > > > This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a > > mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are > > available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ > > > > -- > -- > Tim Gruene > Head of the Centre for X-ray Structure Analysis Faculty of Chemistry > University of Vienna > > Phone: +43-1-4277-70202 > > GPG Key ID = A46BEE1A > > ### > # > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1 > > This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a > mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1 This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/
Re: [ccp4bb] [EXTERNAL] Re: [ccp4bb] AW: Going back to Coot 0.8
Hi Eike, one of the points is that, only because you got used to a certain operation (over many years after someone showed it to you), does not mean it is intuitive. This could be judged by e.g. showing an ignorant user both methods and let the person judge which one is easier to use... Cheers, Tim On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 20:27:55 + "Schulz, Eike-Christian" wrote: > Hi Tim, > > I don't think that metaphor is quite correct. To me it seems that no > matter what button you pushed you got coffee. In my opinion intuitive > software is a blessing and should not easily be disregarded. > > But as I said before, I am happy to read into new stuff. > > Also there seem to be mixed experiences here. Might this be > map-resolution related ? > > Best, > > Eike > > > > -Original Message- > From: CCP4 bulletin board on behalf of Georg > Zocher Reply to: Georg Zocher > Date: Wednesday, 9. September 2020 at 22:17 > To: "CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" > Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] [EXTERNAL] Re: [ccp4bb] AW: Going back to Coot > 0.8 > > Dear Herman, > > Am 09.09.2020 um 17:46 schrieb Schreuder, Herman /DE: > > The old real-space refinement was intuitive and easy to use and > > did exactly what the user expected, without having to consult > > the manual! The result might not have been perfect, but was > > good enough for subsequent Refmac, Buster, Phenix refinement. > > That fits perfectly to my user experience with RSR in coot 0.8.x. > and also explains why at least a number of people having some issues > with the new RSR. > > All the best, > > Georg > > > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1 > > This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, > a mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are > available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ > > > > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1 > > This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a > mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are > available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ -- -- Tim Gruene Head of the Centre for X-ray Structure Analysis Faculty of Chemistry University of Vienna Phone: +43-1-4277-70202 GPG Key ID = A46BEE1A To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1 This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ pgp75IU5ikbNx.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [ccp4bb] [EXTERNAL] Re: [ccp4bb] AW: Going back to Coot 0.8
Dear Herman, Am 09.09.2020 um 17:46 schrieb Schreuder, Herman /DE: The old real-space refinement was intuitive and easy to use and did exactly what the user expected, without having to consult the manual! The result might not have been perfect, but was good enough for subsequent Refmac, Buster, Phenix refinement. That fits perfectly to my user experience with RSR in coot 0.8.x. and also explains why at least a number of people having some issues with the new RSR. All the best, Georg To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB=1 This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/
