date:20151216


On 12/16/2015 12:03 PM, jwsmobile wrote:


Does the first block have a PSW looking thing in the appropriate
start, and an I/O program to boot the next record from the boot
device?


Not to my eye--it starts off thusly:

02 c3 d4 e2 c6

Looks more like 02 "CMSF"

--Chuck

Re: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy


On 12/16/2015 12:11 PM, Dave Wade wrote:


p.s. any luck in extracting the files?


Yes!  Peter Coghlan has graciously offered to jump into the fray and 
take care of this.  Results will make for a very happy customer.


A lot of this conversion stuff is coming down to the question "Will I 
ever see another one of these in my lifetime?".  If the answer is "no", 
I get increasingly lazy when it comes to spinning code of my own.


--Chuck

RE: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?

2015-12-16 Thread Robert Jarratt

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Holm
Tiffe
> Sent: 16 December 2015 17:27
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?
> 
> Robert Jarratt wrote:
> 
> ...sounds very similar to my experience with that PSU. The cure seems to
be
> simple run that machine then mine has stopped powering off now it seems.
> 
> I don't even know if the power off is because of an detected overload at
all, I
> had problems to even power on the machine the first time before changing
> the caps. It would start only the approx 5 time if I switched it on and I
think
> that those problems are related.
> 

I intend to do some more analysis and testing before putting the PSU back in
the machine. I just tried using a current-limited bench PSU on the outputs
of the PSU to see if one of them behaves oddly. I suspect the -12V output is
not right, it sucked up more than 1A with just 0.3V across it. The other
outputs sucked up much less current and increased slowly.

Of course it could have been a totally invalid test, but I know in some
circumstances it can help to see if the output stage and the crowbar is
working. 

> I've installed VMS 7.3 and some additional packages and played for some
> days with that machine and it is running stable now if I power it on.
> The only thing that I still have to complain about is that the NiCad Pack
is
> empty again a little to fast for my taste, the Battery was a new one..
> 

Some people suggest removing those batteries altogether, to avoid damaging
leaks.

Regards

Rob

RE: Diablo 3000 schematics wanted

2015-12-16 Thread tony duell

> 
> > This is a 1980s all-in-one business desktop computer with 2 internal
> > 8" drives. Based on an 8085 CPU.
> 
> Actually, a 70s micro--I used to work with the guys who did a lot of the

Right. I was going by the date codes on the ICs, etc. Makes sense it 
could be earlier.

They should have come across SMPSUs by then, though ;-). The 5V
linear regulator has 7 TIP3055 transistors in parallel (with equalising 
resistors) and another TIP3055 to drive them. Based on the voltages
around there it is only about 30% efficient.

>From what I can see the logic looks fairly standard (apart from the 
disk controller...) so figuring it out, at least the bit I think I need to 
figure out, will not take too long.

-tony

Re: What did computers without screens do?


On 12/15/2015 09:13 PM, Mouse wrote:

What would you do with a home no screen computer?


Depends on what counts as a "screen".  If any visible output counts,
there isn't much - but I suspect you don't want to go that far.

You can connect to it from other computers.  I have six machines
running right now with no screens on them (though four of them have
the host-side hardware for a screen).

You can talk to it with a terminal.  If a video-display terminal
counts as a screen, use a printing terminal.


It's also occurred to me that without screens, we might be better off 
today (oh boy, am I going to get flack on this one).


We might be in the position of being more concise in our computer 
output. A "screen" is an output device--really, ordinary human input 
devices haven't changed much.  The average web-surfing experience blasts 
the user with tons of filigree and useless data, but very little useful 
information.


Don't forget that the first games were text-only.  Web sites that have 
multi-megabyte splash screens that serve no purpose other than tell you 
that you've arrived.  It's like your local Walmart hiring a marching 
band to greet every single customer individually.  Data is cheap and 
Parkinson's law applies.


--Chuck

Re: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy

On 12/16/2015 7:57 AM, Paul Koning wrote:

On Dec 15, 2015, at 10:10 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

On 12/15/2015 01:48 PM, Dave Wade wrote:

What I meant was are they still on 9-track, or some kind of
tape-in-a-file disk? IBM tapes are usually written to AWS format
files not the formats (.TAP ?) used by SIMH... Some source to extract
some versions of these from AWS files (and windows executables) are
in this ZIP file:-

Came right off a 1600 cpi tape, identified as a CMS dumpfile.

What really strikes me as odd, is that ANSI/IBM tape labels were pretty much
the standard rule of thumb then; why the heck did IBM invent something new and
obscure?

IBM standard labels are older than ANSI. Then again, IBM (in OS/360 at least) had something they
called "ANSI label" that were not actually ANSI at all. They used "8 bit
ASCII" which was a bizarre code created from standard 7 bit ASCII by moving one or two of the
bits (bit 6 to bit 7? I don't remember).
On the Microdata 1621 system we had it was 4 assembler instructions in
a loop to convert a string from Ascii to Ebcdic using that weird ascii code.

I use a table now when I code in C to convert from that ASCII to what we
call ascii. I call it high bit on ascii, but it isn't precisely that.

I have an entire OS that uses that, and I ran across it back in the 70's
on a few other minis, but the ANSI version supplanted it early on.

FWIW referring to the Jay West 1600's from University of Missouri, Rolla

thanks
Jim

paul

Re: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy




On 12/16/2015 10:08 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

On 12/16/2015 07:57 AM, Paul Koning wrote:


IBM standard labels are older than ANSI. Then again, IBM (in OS/360
at least) had something they called "ANSI label" that were not
actually ANSI at all.  They used "8 bit ASCII" which was a bizarre
code created from standard 7 bit ASCII by moving one or two of the
bits (bit 6 to bit 7?  I don't remember).


Then there's 6 bit ASCII/USASCII.  I was trying to avoid using jargon 
that some would not understand.  I'm quite familiar with IBM EBCDIC 
"SL" tape labels.


My point was that the CMS dumpfile tape isn't even a standard labeled 
tape.  It just starts out with the first block of data and ends with a 
double filemark.  No standard labels anywhere.  Any non-CMS system 
would not know what the heck the thing was.


Does the first block have a PSW looking thing in the appropriate start, 
and an I/O program to boot the next record from the boot device?

--Chuck

Re: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy




On 12/16/2015 11:43 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

On 12/16/2015 11:11 AM, Dave Wade wrote:

CMS TAPE files are not intended to be used by other systems and the 
format
is undocumented (well except a little in the source code) and has 
changed

several times as disk formats have changed.


I've been on the receiving end of this before--several times. Damned 
inconsiderate programmers with no thoughts of the future. Undocumented 
format--how quaint.


Right now, I'm puzzling over a QIC tape that was apparently made early 
on using Sytos, but the header doesn't match any version of Sytos that 
I've seen.   Wonderful.


I paid for Sytos backup a number of times, but they did run off the 
rails mad with power.


Between them and SCO unix and general experiences concurrent with 
Stallman's as far as proprietary software was what put me off onto Open 
Source long in advance of Linux and GPL.  I don't agree with the social 
engineering aspects of Stallman, but I do not see that having hidden 
source makes any more sense than having a car you can't open the hood 
on.  The engineers and company will loose interest in a product and that 
sort of disposable attitude makes no sense.


Sytos had an excellent product for the time though as far as doing 
backups.  But the back end stuff as Chuck said, not so good.

--Chuck

RE: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy

2015-12-16 Thread Rich Alderson

From: Paul Koning
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 7:58 AM

> IBM standard labels are older than ANSI.  Then again, IBM (in OS/360 at
> least) had something they called "ANSI label" that were not actually ANSI at
> all.  They used "8 bit ASCII" which was a bizarre code created from standard
> 7 bit ASCII by moving one or two of the bits (bit 6 to bit 7?  I don't
> remember).

Ah, yes, PSW bit 12.  Re-used for entirely different purpose on the System/370.

ASCII was defined as a 7-bit code in 1963, prior to the announcement of the
System/360 family.  Unlike every other vendor, who thought that sticking a
leading zero on the 7-bit character codes was sufficient, IBM proposed an 8-bit
extended ASCII in which the defined 7-bit codes mapped to 8-bit codes thus:

... ==> ..0.

and extended codes were shaped like ..1. !  Not even IBM used that, so I
doubt that any tape marked AL ever had anything but 0... ASCII characters
on it.

(Used to eff around with mag tapes on 360/370 systems all the time when I was
 younger, but I got better.)

Rich

Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org

http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

Re: What did computers without screens do?

2015-12-16 Thread Mike Stein

On Sat, Dec 12, 2015, Mike wrote:
> The one question I do have for the older gentlemen on here is what in the 
> world did the computers without a screen to look at do? Now I know about the 
> tape, cassette tape's and even the paper with the hole punches in them but 
> what kind of applications were they use for? Mathematics or? ? ?
---
I started in the IT field way back in 1962 working for a service bureau 
preparing payroll cheques, invoices, the usual accounting reports, market 
research statistics etc. for clients, and the first time I used a 
screen-oriented system was when I bought a Commodore PET in 1977; as a matter 
of fact none of the systems I worked on professionally at that time had screens 
either and used printing 'terminals' to keep an audit trail of what the 
operator had entered.

So you can definitely do lots of useful stuff without a screen, although I 
imagine NetFlix or YouTube on a Selectric terminal might lose something...

m

Re: WTB: PDP-11/03 front bezel

2015-12-16 Thread Mike Boyle

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 11:50 PM, Paul Anderson  wrote:

> opps... The "N" parts are easier to find.
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Paul Anderson  wrote:
>
> > I think that is a BA11-M in the picture. The M parts are easier to find.
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 2:48 PM, Pontus Pihlgren 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> It's a longshot. But recently I aquired two BA11-N. One is just the cage
> >> and power supply. Looks just like this:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/_/rsrc/1300059803599/Home/equipment/dec-pdp-11-03/DEC_PDP-11_03-inside.jpg
> >>
> >> The other came with mounting box but no front panel. I would like to
> >> make it complete with the white front bezel seen here:
> >>
> >> http://hampage.hu/pdp11/kepek/11-03.jpg
> >>
> >> Does anyone have one for sale?
> >>
> >> The greyish plastic arround the front panel would be a bonus since mine
> >> got a small crack in it.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Pontus.
> >>
> >
> >
>



-- 
That is a nice peice!! thanks for thw pic.

Re: Diablo 3000 schematics wanted


On 12/16/2015 10:07 AM, tony duell wrote:

I suspect the answer is no, but before I spend a few afternoons
tracing out the diagrams, does anyone have a schematic or (real)
service manual for the Diablo/Xerox 3000 computer, in particular the
MRPRO CPU board.

This is a 1980s all-in-one business desktop computer with 2 internal
8" drives. Based on an 8085 CPU.


Actually, a 70s micro--I used to work with the guys who did a lot of the 
development.  Of the ones still alive, I doubt that any has held onto 
design documents.  I do know that bits and pieces of 3000 code made it 
into the Durango machines.


--Chuck

RE: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Guzis
> Sent: 16 December 2015 18:08
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy
> 
> On 12/16/2015 07:57 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
> 
> > IBM standard labels are older than ANSI.  Then again, IBM (in OS/360
> > at least) had something they called "ANSI label" that were not
> > actually ANSI at all.  They used "8 bit ASCII" which was a bizarre
> > code created from standard 7 bit ASCII by moving one or two of the
> > bits (bit 6 to bit 7?  I don't remember).
> 
> Then there's 6 bit ASCII/USASCII.  I was trying to avoid using jargon that
some
> would not understand.  I'm quite familiar with IBM EBCDIC "SL"
> tape labels.
> 
> My point was that the CMS dumpfile tape isn't even a standard labeled
tape.
> It just starts out with the first block of data and ends with a double
filemark.
> No standard labels anywhere.  Any non-CMS system would not know what
> the heck the thing was.
> 
> --Chuck

That's for the same reason MS DOS does not put standard labels on DDS or DAT
tape. CMS is the original personal computing environment. Each user gets an
individual isolated virtual machine and the IPL's CMS into their machine.
CMS is a single-user operating system and within that virtual machine they
can do what they want. A normal user can't see much outside their virtual
environment, but inside it they are god. They can even single step through
CMS.  As there are many VMs in a VM/370 environment Users can put whatever
they want on their tapes. It is up to the operators or other privileged user
to "attach" the physical tapes to the users' virtual machine and mount the
tapes with or without a ring. Once its attached the user can put what they
want on the tape, provided it has a write ring in it. Trying to insist on
standard labels would be pretty pointless. 

CMS TAPE files are not intended to be used by other systems and the format
is undocumented (well except a little in the source code) and has changed
several times as disk formats have changed. They contain physical dumps of
the DASD (disk) followed by the matching directory block. They may contain
multiple files. You know a file is complete when you hit is directory block.
So unlike OS tapes you don't need to specify a block factor and record type.
You just do "TAPE DUMPwhere the names
may contain the usual wild cards and they get dumped. To see what is on a
tape do "TAPE SCAN" and to load them do "TAPE LOAD". No JCL, no DD cards no
knowledge of the underlying record formats are required.

CMS includes a "MOVEFILE" command that can produce standard label tapes in
the usual OS/DOS formats but normally users don't bother unless they are
sending tapes to other sites...

Dave

Re: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy


On 12/16/2015 11:11 AM, Dave Wade wrote:


CMS TAPE files are not intended to be used by other systems and the format
is undocumented (well except a little in the source code) and has changed
several times as disk formats have changed.


I've been on the receiving end of this before--several times.  Damned 
inconsiderate programmers with no thoughts of the future.  Undocumented 
format--how quaint.


Right now, I'm puzzling over a QIC tape that was apparently made early 
on using Sytos, but the header doesn't match any version of Sytos that 
I've seen.   Wonderful.


--Chuck

RE: IBM Selectric-based Terminals

2015-12-16 Thread Rich Alderson

From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 4:25 PM

> Also, I really want one of those 2741s. Selectrics that can do I/O are
> *bleep*ing cool.

2741s are OK.  I much preferred the 2740, though.  We had those at the
Computer-Assisted Instruction Laboratory at the UTexas School of Education
(Student job, autumn 1969-autumn 1970), but only 2741s at Ohio State.

On the 2741, ETX is tied to the Return key.  That made correcting a class
of errors in Coursewriter III much harder:  Incorrectly inserted labels could
not be removed by the author, but only by a systems programmer editing the
file on disk.

On the 2740, there was a bank of 6 buttons to the upper right of the Selectric
keyboard.  I only remember 3 labels, because the other 3 didn't do anything
special under Coursewriter III or APL\360, but the important ones were EOT,
ETX, and EOB.  With judicious use of these, newlines could be inserted into the
entered text at will, allowing for the selection of labels surrounded by empty
lines.  It also allowed for security by obscurity:  The supervisor password on
the Coursewriter III system was 0x4040404040404015, which could not be entered
on a 2741.

Ah, the Good Old Days(TM)...

Rich

Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org

http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

RE: Anyone want a copy of DIGITAL ServerWORKS Manager ?

2015-12-16 Thread Robert Jarratt

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jason T
> Sent: 15 December 2015 22:34
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: Anyone want a copy of DIGITAL ServerWORKS Manager ?
> 
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Glen Slick  wrote:
> > The main manual is already available online. I could image the CD-ROMs
> > from both boxes (not sure if they are actually different between the
> > two) and make that available to archive if it is not already archived
> > somewhere so nothing would be really lost if I recycled these.
> 
> I was going to offer to scan and image the lot, but if the scan is already 
> done
> and you can image the CDs, that would be ideal.

Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I am bit torn by this one. I am usually reluctant 
to see *any* DEC stuff get recycled, but this is only moderately interesting 
*now*. Sometimes though, you can end up regretting these things (as per another 
thread); so if you are prepared to send it to me in the UK, let me know and I 
will PayPal you the money.

Thanks

Rob

RE: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy

> 
> > CMS TAPE files are not intended to be used by other systems and the
> > format is undocumented (well except a little in the source code) and
> > has changed several times as disk formats have changed.
> 
> I've been on the receiving end of this before--several times.  Damned
> inconsiderate programmers with no thoughts of the future.  

I think CMS TAPE dates back to 1972 or so. It also has two character years
so definitely no thoughts for the future...

> Undocumented
> format--how quaint.
> 

The manual is pretty clear. Even in 1972 it said ..

"The TAPE COMMAND is used solely with CMS files; Therefore, the files are in
a unique format".

If you wanted to write portable tapes, you used MOVEFILE but most folks
didn't because MOVEFILE needed FILEDEF cards to define the block size and
record format.


> Right now, I'm puzzling over a QIC tape that was apparently made early on
> using Sytos, but the header doesn't match any version of Sytos that
> I've seen.   Wonderful.

At least the original VM/370 was open source freeware, so you could figure
out the format as you have the assembler source that writes it
... and there are Program Logic manuals as well. 

Ah the joys of computing, wouldn't life be boring if everything worked...

> 
> --Chuck

Dave
G4UGM
p.s. any luck in extracting the files?

RE: Decisions you regret (classiccmp related)

2015-12-16 Thread Rich Alderson

From: Jay West
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 7:57 AM

> After a time my parents ordered them out of the house and a "friend" agreed
> to store them. A few weeks after moving them to his house, he informed me
> that he gave them away and wouldn't tell me to who/where.

Apparently they've never found the body...

Rich

M7859 KY11-LB PROM contents?

2015-12-16 Thread Mattis Lind

Has anyone dumped the contents of the bipolar PROMs of the M7859, KY11-LB,
programmer's console form the 11/34 and 11/04? Dump for both the program
PROMS (512x4 4 pieces) and the decoding PROM (32x8 one piece) are sought
after.

It has a 8008 chip onboard but my logic analyzer trace is not matching very
well with the listing in the manual. Maybe the revisions have changed from
the manual. And I cannot find the PROM contents in the engineering drawing.

/Mattis

Re: Decisions you regret Was: Mystery IC: Allen Bradley 314B102

2015-12-16 Thread Jay Jaeger

On 12/16/2015 9:17 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> > From: Brent Hilpert
> 
> > I threw out a print-only selectric a few years ago ... Regret it now,
> > just because it would have been fun to figure it out. C'est la vie.
> 
> I can top that.
> 
> MIT offered me (as a gift) the PDP-11/45 that I used to run; it included a
> pair of CalComp 50MB drives, a pair of RK05s, an ABLE ENABLE, 3 H960's, lots
> of other goodies. I blew it off, I was too busy dealing with other things at
> the time (I was on the IESG at that point) to deal with arranging to get it
> shipped down to me. They gave it to someone else, and near as I can work out,
> eventually it got scrapped.
> 
> Every time I think about it I kick myself... Sigh!
> 
> Although I suspect a lot of people here have stories like that...
> 
>   Noel
> 

Yup.  Same here.

Was at University of Wisconsin surplus, maybe 25 years ago - used to
make regular trips over there, and they knew me pretty well too, and
sent a couple of machines my way once they were not interested in them
anymore.

Anywho, I was looking at a couple of 19" racks containing an odd
computer of some sort.  Had this funny square keyboard, and what looked
like LINCTapes to me.  Looked kinda "home brew", using DEC Flip Chips.
Well a couple of years later I saw a photo of a LINC, and then it was
"head slap" time - I realized I had passed up a LINC.  Could have had it
for $25.  I fear it was probably scrapped.

Sigh.

The Structure of SYSTEM/360 (Blaauw & Brooks, et al.)

2015-12-16 Thread Paul Birkel

This was the five-part seminal description of the S/360, published in the
IBM Systems Journal, Volume 3, Number 2.

 

I've very much like to read all five parts.  Does anyone have a copy that
might be shared?

 

Thank you,

 

paul

Re: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy


On 12/16/2015 07:57 AM, Paul Koning wrote:


IBM standard labels are older than ANSI.  Then again, IBM (in OS/360
at least) had something they called "ANSI label" that were not
actually ANSI at all.  They used "8 bit ASCII" which was a bizarre
code created from standard 7 bit ASCII by moving one or two of the
bits (bit 6 to bit 7?  I don't remember).


Then there's 6 bit ASCII/USASCII.  I was trying to avoid using jargon 
that some would not understand.  I'm quite familiar with IBM EBCDIC "SL" 
tape labels.


My point was that the CMS dumpfile tape isn't even a standard labeled 
tape.  It just starts out with the first block of data and ends with a 
double filemark.  No standard labels anywhere.  Any non-CMS system would 
not know what the heck the thing was.


--Chuck

Diablo 3000 schematics wanted

2015-12-16 Thread tony duell

I suspect the answer is no, but before I spend a few afternoons tracing out the 
diagrams,
does anyone have a schematic or (real) service manual for the Diablo/Xerox 3000
computer, in particular the MRPRO CPU board.

This is a 1980s all-in-one business desktop computer with 2 internal 8" drives. 
Based on
an 8085 CPU. 

I have one that was mangled in the house-move (the movers decided to cut the 
keyboard
cable for me). I have now repaired that (and the signals do make sense) but I 
have other 
faults (these were probably there before the move, I had not run it for many 
years). Power
lines are fine, CPU chip is getting a clock, but the ready pin is held low. So 
not a lot 
happening

The CPU board is not complicated, really (about 50 ICs, all of them standard) 
so it is going
to be possible for me to trace the schematic if that's what is needed...

-tony

Re: Decisions you regret Was: Mystery IC: Allen Bradley 314B102

2015-12-16 Thread Paul Koning

There are similar regrets on a smaller scale.  I have one or two of the 
programs I wrote early on, in listing form.  Most I did not save, nor did I 
save paper tapes or card decks.  I have none of the OS/360 programs I wrote in 
college -- rather unfortunate because there were some unusual things in them.

Similarly, there are manuals I used to have that have disappeared; many of 
those exist elsewhere so I can still get the data, but some I have not seen.  
CDC Algol 68 manual?  CDC 7054 buffer controller programming manual?

So it's not just devices that need to be grabbed when possible, but code and 
documentation as well.

paul

Re: Decisions you regret Was: Mystery IC: Allen Bradley 314B102

2015-12-16 Thread Jon Elson


On 12/16/2015 11:01 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
Anywho, I was looking at a couple of 19" racks containing 
an odd computer of some sort. Had this funny square 
keyboard, and what looked like LINCTapes to me. Looked 
kinda "home brew", using DEC Flip Chips. Well a couple of 
years later I saw a photo of a LINC, and then it was "head 
slap" time - I realized I had passed up a LINC. Could have 
had it for $25. I fear it was probably scrapped. Sigh. 
A Classic LINC used "system building blocks", generally 
single-sided boards with an aluminum frame around the board, 
and a single-row 22-pin connector that was a separate piece, 
not a card-edge connector.
The little keyboard on the Classic LINC was made by Soroban, 
and it was indeed funny.  Each keystroke locked the 
keyboard, and when the program picked up the character from 
the buffer, the keyboard unlocked.  The delay was often 
heard, as LAP-6 spent 99% of the time refreshing the screen.


If it was real flip-chip modules with the little molded 
plastic handle, that would have been a LINC-8 or PDP-12.


Jon

Re: Interest level for new PDP-11 indicator panels

2015-12-16 Thread Ben Sinclair

I'm interested in the blinkenlitz! Of course, I'm interested in the
controller even without that too!

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> > I'm trying to get a sense of how much demand there would be for the
> > indicator panel option (for parts ordering; I have a chance to buy some
> > discontinued stuff, and I want to know how much to stock up on). If you
> > would be interested in one or more indicator panels, could you let me
> > know? (Please don't reply to the list, just to me personally.)
>
> I should have mentioned that we'll likely do a UNIBUS version of the card
> (ENABLE+, and it should be easy to guess why that name :-) as soon as we're
> done with the QBUS one; the same indicator panels would be supported by both
> (so they count to the parts pool).
>
> So if you have a UNIBUS machine, and would be interested in adding an ENABLE+
> _with indicator panels_, I would be interested to hear about those too.
> Thanks!
>
> Noel



-- 
Ben Sinclair
b...@bensinclair.com

Re: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?

2015-12-16 Thread Holm Tiffe

Robert Jarratt wrote:

> > Tonight I replaced the leaking capacitors on the +12V/-12V board, and also
> > replaced the two similar ones that looked and measured fine. I put the PSU
> > back together, put in a couple of less important boards and drives, and
> the
> > machine now seems to power on OK. I measured the ripple using the power
> > connector for the front panel and that looks OK too. Unfortunately though,
> > that connector only sends out +12V, +5V and -12V. It does not have output
> > for +3.3V, so I have not, so far, been able to check the ripple for this.
> It is a bit
> > awkward to test on the bench with a dummy load.
> > 
> > As I did not replace the capacitors on the +5V/3.3V board, because the
> > underside is very hard to access, and I am reluctant to pull them off and
> > solder from above, I would like to be sure there is no ripple on the 3.3V
> > supply. So, I was wondering if anyone has any neat tricks for probing the
> > +3.3V supply with the PSU installed in the machine?
> > 
> > Next job is to replace the capacitors on the little DSSI terminator, they
> are
> > easy to change.
> > 
> 
> 
> I spoke too soon :-(
> 
> The machine stayed on for a couple of minutes and then powered off. I
> suspect there is a problem with it detecting an overload that may not
> actually be there. Looks like I will need to get a dummy load and put it on
> the bench to see if it still happens there.
> 
> I do recall that when it first failed it would stay on for shorter and
> shorter periods each time I tried it. So perhaps there is some component
> warming up and then causing a failure?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Rob


...sounds very similar to my experience with that PSU. The cure seems to be
simple run that machine then mine has stopped powering off now it seems.

I don't even know if the power off is because of an detected overload at
all, I had problems to even power on the machine the first time before
changing the caps. It would start only the approx 5 time if I switched it
on and I think that those problems are related.

I've installed VMS 7.3 and some additional packages and played for some
days with that machine and it is running stable now if I power it on.
The only thing that I still have to complain about is that the NiCad Pack 
is empty again a little to fast for my taste, the Battery was a new one..


Regards,

Holm

-- 
  Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
 Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
  www.tsht.de, i...@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741

RE: Mystery IC: Allen Bradley 314B102

2015-12-16 Thread tony duell

> 
> Tony, good advice but probably more work than I'm inclined to put in.

What I have suggested would take about 10 minutes tops. It has probably
taken me longer to type this message than it would take me to figure
that out.

> As you said there were many interfaces with different standards -
> different polarities and timing - and either way it's quite likely

Based on Brent's schematic and the date I wonder if it is similar
to the HP9866 interface. The connector is wrong, but the signals
(7 data lines, strobe, ready, paper out) are right. And it is a 
machine that was around at the time. Possibly this was to get
letter quality output that didn't fade from some machine designed
to use that printer.

> this will never work with a standard modern parallel port without
> building some converter, after first finding out what has to be
> converted and designing it!

Probably just a matter of inverting some of the signal lines (i.e. '04s)

-tony

Re: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy

2015-12-16 Thread jim s


From the IBM 360/40 functional characteristics:

When IPL is initiated, the selected input device starts reading. The 
first 24
bytes read are placed in storage locations 0-23.  Storage protection, 
program

controlled interruption, and a possible incorrect length indication are
ignored.  The double word read into location 8 is used as the channel 
command

word (ccw) for a subsequent I/O operation.

When chaining is specified in this ccw, the operation proceeds with the 
ccw in

location 16.  Either command chaining or data chain- ing may be specified.

After the input operation is performed, the I/O ad- dress is stored in 
bits 21-31

of the first word in storage.  Bi~s 16-20 are made zero.  Bits 0-15 remain
unchanged.  The CPU subsequently fetches the double word in location 0 
as a new
psw and proceeds under control of the new psw.  The load light is turned 
off.

When the I/O operations and psw loading are not completed sat- isfactorily,
the CPU idles, and the load light remains on.

I think that the 24 bytes besides covering useful locations in the 
bottom of memory may be the minimum record size for the half inch drives.


So you may see 24 bytes or you may see 80.  I've been used to seeing a 
two "card" boot somewhere, but that isn't the discussion here, since we 
are talking probably a cms file.  Also may be off in the weeds, as far 
as this is concerned.


if you bring up a copy of the VM/370, and convert this to an AWS tape, 
on some available CMS drive, you should be able to read it in with some 
command line incantation.  How you would edit it from there with the 
public domain VM/370's editing is anyones guess. XEDIT is licensed, so 
you won't have something easy to use to edit and save it if it is a text 
file.


By the time you figure all that out, assuming you don't regularly use 
either VM/370 or MVS 3.8 on Hercules, or have access to IBM facilities 
to use actual IBM products, coding and squinting at your results will 
probably produce the result faster.  I'm guessing you already have it in 
process anyway.


thanks
JIm

On 12/16/2015 12:35 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

On 12/16/2015 12:03 PM, jwsmobile wrote:


Does the first block have a PSW looking thing in the appropriate
start, and an I/O program to boot the next record from the boot
device?


Not to my eye--it starts off thusly:

02 c3 d4 e2 c6

Looks more like 02 "CMSF"

--Chuck

Re: Decisions you regret Was: Mystery IC: Allen Bradley 314B102

2015-12-16 Thread Paul Koning


> On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:25 PM, Robert Jarratt  
> wrote:
> 
>> ...
>> Similarly, there are manuals I used to have that have disappeared; many of
>> those exist elsewhere so I can still get the data, but some I have not
> seen.
>> CDC Algol 68 manual?  CDC 7054 buffer controller programming manual?
> 
> I remember using a flavour of Algol 68 on a CDC machine at University, I
> think it was a CDC Cyber 17, and it may have been Algol68-R.

No, it was a version developed by CDC Rijswijk (Holland), documented in a 
thesis I have lying around somewhere.

paul

Re: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy

If it's an 80 byte record, the PSW is further into the block.  the first 
80 positions from the Green card should be a clue.


thanks
jim

On 12/16/2015 12:35 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

On 12/16/2015 12:03 PM, jwsmobile wrote:


Does the first block have a PSW looking thing in the appropriate
start, and an I/O program to boot the next record from the boot
device?


Not to my eye--it starts off thusly:

02 c3 d4 e2 c6

Looks more like 02 "CMSF"

--Chuck

Re: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy

On Dec 16, 2015 8:54 PM, "Chuck Guzis"  wrote:
>
> On 12/16/2015 12:11 PM, Dave Wade wrote:
>>
>>
>> p.s. any luck in extracting the files?
>
>
> Yes!  Peter Coghlan has graciously offered to jump into the fray and take
care of this.  Results will make for a very happy customer.
>

OK ask off line if he fails...

> A lot of this conversion stuff is coming down to the question "Will I
ever see another one of these in my lifetime?".  If the answer is "no", I
get increasingly lazy when it comes to spinning code of my own.

I know the feeling
>
> --Chuck
>

Re: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy


On 12/16/2015 01:19 PM, jwsmobile wrote:

If it's an 80 byte record, the PSW is further into the block.  the
first 80 positions from the Green card should be a clue.


No, the first record is 4101 bytes long.  Interestingly, all blocks on 
this tape are an odd number of bytes in length.


--Chuck

Re: Decisions you regret Was: Mystery IC: Allen Bradley

2015-12-16 Thread mark


From: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Subject: Re: Decisions you regret  Was: Mystery IC: Allen Bradley


   > From: Brent Hilpert

   > I threw out a print-only selectric a few years ago ... Regret it now,
   > just because it would have been fun to figure it out. C'est la vie.

I can top that.

<...>

Every time I think about it I kick myself... Sigh!

Although I suspect a lot of people here have stories like that...


Yep.  Among the things that I have given away (to Goodwill, or possibly 
Salvation Army) - all in running condition:


- A complete HP-1000 system: A600 processor with internal hard drive, serial 
card + 8-port serial mux, all floppies, all documentation, a 2631G printer, 
7912 13 MB disk drive, and two 2624B terminals


- My CP/M "network", with Cromemco Z2-H with two 5 MB hard drives and two 8" 
floppies, 8-port serial card, connected to three H-19 terminals (the BIOS 
allowed you to become the console by typing ^C anywhere), HP2648 graphics 
terminal with tape cartridges, HP 2762 terminal (a re-badged GE 
Terminet-300), and an H-89 with three external floppies


- Ancient SCM TypeTronic system, with the main typewriter console, two 30 
CPS optical paper-tape readers, two really nice (re-branded CDC) 30 CPS 
punches, 2816 main control unit, and 7816 arithmetic unit (with internal 
fixed-head disk - 9 words plus a buffer, 30 digits/sec transfer rate!)


- Abandoned to rust away in a garage: a Teletype KSR-33 with punch and 
reader, of course, and a built-in modem with acoustic coupler, in perfect 
condition


- Turned down - a complete HP-3000 system, with two Eagle 76936 512 MB 
drives, 32 serial ports, 2617A 600 LPM printer, and a few 2640 and 2622 
terminals


Did I mention that *everything* was in perfect working condition?

I'm going to go shoot myself now.
~~
Mark Moulding

RE: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Guzis
> Sent: 16 December 2015 22:14
> To: jwsm...@jwsss.com; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy
> 
> On 12/16/2015 01:19 PM, jwsmobile wrote:
> > If it's an 80 byte record, the PSW is further into the block.  the
> > first 80 positions from the Green card should be a clue.
> 
> No, the first record is 4101 bytes long.  Interestingly, all blocks on
this tape
> are an odd number of bytes in length.
> 
> --Chuck

There is a 0x02 character, followed by "CMS" in EBCDIC then a record type
"V", "F" or "N" for the file status table.
>From the "cmstape.c" I sent you the link too

/*
 * Format of a CMS TAPE DUMP tape entry for each file:
 *
 * 1) One or more blocks like this:
 *  +--+-+-+-+-+-+-+-/ /-+-+-+-
 *  |02|C M S V| l | data... | l | data...
 *  +--+-+-+-+-+-+-+-/ /-+-+-+-
 *   <---4101 bytes max-->
 *
 *or this (for fixed records (lrecl in the FST)):
 *  +--+-+-+-+-+-/ /-+-+-+-
 *  |02|C M S F| data... | l | data...
 *  +--+-+-+-+-+-/ /-+-+-+-
 *   <---4101 bytes max-->
 *

 * 2) Followed by an ending FST + filename
 *  +--+-+-+-+-++
 *  |02|C M S N|  FST data  |
 *  +--+-+-+-+-++
 *   <---87 bytes-->

Dave

Re: Anyone want a copy of DIGITAL ServerWORKS Manager ?

2015-12-16 Thread Jim Carpenter

On Dec 15, 2015 16:36, "Glen Slick"  wrote:
> The main manual is already available online. I could image the CD-ROMs
> from both boxes (not sure if they are actually different between the
> two) and make that available to archive if it is not already archived
> somewhere so nothing would be really lost if I recycled these.

That would be nice to have archived. And I just looked and couldn't find it
anywhere.

Jim

Re: IBM CMS dumpfile idiocy