For Sale: (2) Boxed Macintosh 512K Enhanced and (2) Boxed Macintosh Plus

2017-06-02 Thread Sellam Ismail via cctalk 
I have these 4 boxed Macs, all being sold separately.

Full details and link to video are here:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?58094-Boxed-Early-Macintosh-Sale-Macintosh-Plus-(2)-Macintosh-512K-Enhanced-(2)-Boxed

Thanks!

Sellam

For Sale: Osborne 1 (original tan/black case)

2017-06-02 Thread Sellam Ismail via cctalk 
I have an Osborne 1 (the original tan/black case model) for sale.

Full details are here:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?58093-Osborne-1-(Original-Tan-Black-model)

Thanks!

Sellam

Re: What is this bus?

2017-06-02 Thread Rico Pajarola via cctalk 
On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Camiel Vanderhoeven <
camiel.vanderhoe...@vmssoftware.com> wrote:

> >looks like STD Bus (
> >http://www.winsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/specs/std_section1.pdf)
>
> What would give you that idea? Neither the number of pins, nor the spacing
> of the connector as described in the initial post match...
>
Should have looked closer before posting. The enclosure (if it is part of
it) reminded me of STD bus enclosures, but it's been a while since I've
seen one for real.

Re: I hadn't made the connection before

2017-06-02 Thread dwight via cctalk 
Such things were often done on loyalty to previous companies.

It is like the Video Brain used the F8 or that Olivetti used the Z8000 for the 
M20.

The Video Brain was because the designer had worked on the F8 at Fairchild.

The M20 was because Faggin was Italian and had connections to Olivetti.

Such things were not always done because they were better or cheaper.

Woz was rare in his way of thinking at the time. He was mostly looking for cheap

but having a rich set of addressing mode was surely a plus.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Cameron Kaiser via 
cctalk 
Sent: Friday, June 2, 2017 9:37:13 AM
To: ccl...@sydex.com; cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: I hadn't made the connection before

> I sold a bare CP1600 chip about a year ago to a collector.   "Odd" is an
> understatement. A 10-bit wide instruction word, with the upper 6 bits of
> the opcode unused.   Loading a 16-bit address took three words.
>
> Also, slow, very slow, with no I/O instructions.

But that was because it has memory-mapped I/O, no? On the other hand the
decles were weird and it has a lot of instructions that were removed.

Retrospectively a 6502 or a Z80 would have looked like a better choice in
this application, even considering this was supposed to be a higher-end
console.

--
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com 
* ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. -- 1 Corinthians 8:1 ---

Re: I hadn't made the connection before

2017-06-02 Thread Jim Brain via cctalk 

On 6/2/2017 11:26 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 06/02/2017 07:55 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:


A very odd version of the PDP-11

I did some programming on it for GI in the late 70's using their
GIMINI development system and cross-development tools on their Sigma
9.

I sold a bare CP1600 chip about a year ago to a collector.   "Odd" is an
understatement. A 10-bit wide instruction word, with the upper 6 bits of
the opcode unused.   Loading a 16-bit address took three words.

Also, slow, very slow, with no I/O instructions.   A stripped-down
instruction set (IIRC, exclusive OR and AND Boolean ops, but no
inclusive OR).  We'd examined its possible usage, but determined that
code would run slower on it than on most contemporary 8-bit CPUs.

But, for 1975, notable because it's a 16-bit monolithic CPU among a
handful of others (Fairchild 9440, MicroNova, National PACE, TI 9900)
This begs the question of why the CP1600 was designed that way.  I fail 
to believe that GI engineers were somehow less intelligent than the rest 
of the population, so what happened?  Upper Management dictate?  
Customer demand?  It would be interesting to know.


Jim

Re: I hadn't made the connection before

2017-06-02 Thread Cameron Kaiser via cctalk 
> I sold a bare CP1600 chip about a year ago to a collector.   "Odd" is an
> understatement. A 10-bit wide instruction word, with the upper 6 bits of
> the opcode unused.   Loading a 16-bit address took three words.
> 
> Also, slow, very slow, with no I/O instructions. 

But that was because it has memory-mapped I/O, no? On the other hand the
decles were weird and it has a lot of instructions that were removed.

Retrospectively a 6502 or a Z80 would have looked like a better choice in
this application, even considering this was supposed to be a higher-end
console.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. -- 1 Corinthians 8:1 ---

Re: I hadn't made the connection before

2017-06-02 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk 
On 06/02/2017 07:55 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

> 
> A very odd version of the PDP-11
> 
> I did some programming on it for GI in the late 70's using their
> GIMINI development system and cross-development tools on their Sigma
> 9.

I sold a bare CP1600 chip about a year ago to a collector.   "Odd" is an
understatement. A 10-bit wide instruction word, with the upper 6 bits of
the opcode unused.   Loading a 16-bit address took three words.

Also, slow, very slow, with no I/O instructions.   A stripped-down
instruction set (IIRC, exclusive OR and AND Boolean ops, but no
inclusive OR).  We'd examined its possible usage, but determined that
code would run slower on it than on most contemporary 8-bit CPUs.

But, for 1975, notable because it's a 16-bit monolithic CPU among a
handful of others (Fairchild 9440, MicroNova, National PACE, TI 9900)

--Chuck

Re: RL02 to image file

2017-06-02 Thread Ethan Dicks via cctalk 
On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk
 wrote:
> My setup is an 11/70 running BSD 2.11.  I “dd” the RL pack to a file on
> one of the file systems (I have the equivalent of 4 RP06 drives) and then
> ftp it to where I want it (since the 11/70 is on my network…actually at one
> point it was on the internet where anybody could log-in).  I can also do
> that with RK05’s and RX02’s.  ;-)

If I had a large setup like that, I would totally do it that way.  If
I could get the DWBUA working in my 8300 and add the DEBNT, I might
use that rig (with various Unibus interfaces).

What I have handy is a Qbus KDF11-based box and some smallish Unibus
hardware (BA11-L with either KD11-D or KD11-E).  Disk is no problem on
the MicroPDP, but I don't really have a lot of Unibus disk larger than
RL02.

This is why I'm looking at faster alternatives to vtserver.  Something
that fits on a floppy or TU58 image and has a total in-memory
footprint of 56Kbytes is fantastic, but something that fits in
248kbytes is essential.  I have  a number of DR11-C and DRV11 modules,
so that's a totally viable method.  I am not blessed with an abundance
of Ethernet in my DEC collection.

-ethan

Re: I hadn't made the connection before

2017-06-02 Thread Cameron Kaiser via cctalk 
> I was looking at an old GI catalog and casually noting the CP1610 that was
> most of a PDP11 processor. I did some more web surfing and noticed that the
> Intellivision game machine used this chip. It just never dawned on me that
> they used this processor.
> 
> I see that one could even get a keyboard for these.

The (ridiculous) story of the Keyboard Component was legendary. The ECS
keyboard variant can barely be considered functional even by the standards
of the time, though I guess it at least looks decent compared to an Aquarius
and the second sound chip was nice. It was designed to be cheap and get the
FTC off Mattel's back and that's all it did.

I say this as a kid whose first video game system was, in fact, an Inty.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- He whose face gives no light, shall never become a star. -- William Blake --

Re: RL02 to image file

2017-06-02 Thread Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk 

> On Jun 2, 2017, at 1:16 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017, Jay Jaeger wrote:
>> On 6/1/2017 12:12 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk
>>>  wrote:
 I can.  I use a DR11 parallel port on an 11/24 to transfer the files.
>>> 
>>> Interesting.  I'd like to see how you tackled that (I can imagine
>>> wanting a couple of layers of integrity-checking, for one).
>>> 
>> 
>> It uses a simple 8 but parallel bus-like fully interlocked protocol,
>> byte by byte.  The send side raises a data available bit, the receiver
>> grabs it, then raises an acknowledge.  The sender then drops the
>> available, and then waits until the receiver drops the acknowledge.
> [...]
> 
> I have a similar setup, a DR11 in a 11/34. It is more or less directly
> connected to a bidirectional parallel port on a PC that runs a small
> server written with eRTOS (DOS based), for the PDP side I have written a
> full RT11 driver, so I can do things like COPY/DEV/FILE and even boot from
> an image over the DR11. The transfer rate is about 75 kb/s.
> 

My setup is an 11/70 running BSD 2.11.  I “dd” the RL pack to a file on
one of the file systems (I have the equivalent of 4 RP06 drives) and then
ftp it to where I want it (since the 11/70 is on my network…actually at one
point it was on the internet where anybody could log-in).  I can also do
that with RK05’s and RX02’s.  ;-)

TTFN - Guy

Re: I hadn't made the connection before

2017-06-02 Thread Al Kossow via cctalk 


On 6/2/17 7:20 AM, dwight via cctalk wrote:
> the CP1610 that was most of a PDP11 processor.


A very odd version of the PDP-11

I did some programming on it for GI in the late 70's
using their GIMINI development system and cross-development
tools on their Sigma 9.

I hadn't made the connection before

2017-06-02 Thread dwight via cctalk 
I was looking at an old GI catalog and casually noting the CP1610 that was most 
of a PDP11 processor. I did some more web surfing and noticed that the 
Intellivision game machine used this chip. It just never dawned on me that they 
used this processor.

I see that one could even get a keyboard for these.

Dwight

Re: RL02 to image file

2017-06-02 Thread Christian Corti via cctalk 

On Thu, 1 Jun 2017, Jay Jaeger wrote:

On 6/1/2017 12:12 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:

On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk
 wrote:

I can.  I use a DR11 parallel port on an 11/24 to transfer the files.


Interesting.  I'd like to see how you tackled that (I can imagine
wanting a couple of layers of integrity-checking, for one).



It uses a simple 8 but parallel bus-like fully interlocked protocol,
byte by byte.  The send side raises a data available bit, the receiver
grabs it, then raises an acknowledge.  The sender then drops the
available, and then waits until the receiver drops the acknowledge.

[...]

I have a similar setup, a DR11 in a 11/34. It is more or less directly
connected to a bidirectional parallel port on a PC that runs a small
server written with eRTOS (DOS based), for the PDP side I have written a
full RT11 driver, so I can do things like COPY/DEV/FILE and even boot from
an image over the DR11. The transfer rate is about 75 kb/s.

Christian