Re: HP 21mx/whatever processor works with doublesided key... i forgot model#

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

OK check some other messages... keys on ebay pretty reasonable...

But yes you are right... locksmiths can make keys to fit... 

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 dwight  wrote:

p   {margin-top:0;  margin-bottom:0} 

Most real lock smiths can make a key for it. Just remove the lock and bring it 
to them.

Dwight


From: cctalk  on behalf of Ed via cctalk 

Sent: Friday, October 20, 2017 8:24:28 PM
To: jw...@classiccmp.org; cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: HP 21mx/whatever processor works with doublesided key... i forgot 
model# 

 

IT RUNS MEMORY RESIDENT  LOADED  FROM PAPER TAPE?
ED#
 
 
In a message dated 10/20/2017 7:37:48 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
jw...@classiccmp.org writes:

"Forth-like" system that is well developed/flushedout. So in  addition to
BASIC, you get oh-so-many-wonderful-things. I very highly  recommend that
anyone messing with 21mx/1000 systems take a good look at  HP-IPL/OS.

RE: Which Dec Emulation is the MOST useful and Versatile?

[Kip Koon via cctalk]

Hi Guys,
I think I know so little of the PDP systems that I really didn't know how to
correctly phrase the question in PDP speak in my 1st email so let me try.
I was initially thinking of a strictly software only solution running on my
Windows 7 x64 laptop only since the only hardware based simulator I have is
the PiDP-8/I which is not up and running yet.  
I'm primarily a Motorola Processor man so after sending that 1st email I
found a gentleman's web site who built a PDP-11 Console front panel using a
6802 on the core board at 1st then redesigned the core board to use the 6809
and an I/O board working together as the controller for the PDP-11 front
panel.  The core board's serial port is connected to a PC running SimH
modified to communicate needed data to the front panel controller.  The url
link to his web site is below.
< http://www.pdp-11.nl/>
Click on the "My Projects" link on the left to see a quick summary of all of
his homebrew projects of which this is only one.  Now back to the core
board.
Of course the 6809 can be replaced with the 6309 as well.  Well, that really
sparked my interest as I am in the middle of designing a Motorola
Multi-Processor based single board computer board.  It will have the ability
to support all of the following processors however ONLY 1 CPU can be
populated on the PCB at a time as ALL address, data and control busses are
tied together using one common flash/eprom, ram, 2 serial ports and 4 -
8-bit parallel ports with 2 special control bits on each port.  The
processors that will be supported are the 6802, 6809, 6309 and the following
68HC11 sub-variants A1, A8, E2, F1 & K1.
So now my software only DEC Emulation idea is splitting into 2 thought
processes.
1st, a software simulator only way yields all currently supported PDPs which
still presents a problem for me and that is which PDP do I teach myself and
set up.  So far, it seems that you guys are saying that the PDP-11/70 is a
good choice whether SimH or Erzata-11 is used.  
A while back I found the PDP-8/e WinEight software simulator as one choice
as well.  SIMH can run them all. Still though, which one?
2nd, a hardware emulator running a simulator written in 6809 assembly
language for the PDP-8/e running on a 6809 Core & I/O board system seems
like a good choice for me as I understand the 6809 microprocessor, the 6821
Peripheral Interface Adapter and the 6850 Asynchronous Communications
Interface Adapter chips used on the core board reasonably well.  
There is a PDP-11 version of this hardware emulator available with only 1
more requirement and that is SIMH is running on a PC which communicates via
serial port the data needed to control the PDP-11 front panel.
3rd, and this is a big factor in the choice of DEC PDP computer to pick for
simulation or emulation and that is the small cash flow and itty bitty
storage space I have available to me.
So with what I have to work with, my current interests and skill level of
PCB design using the Motorola 8-bit processors as well as using Windows 7
x64 for software only simulations, which PDP should I chose?  
The choice so far it seems is the PDP-11/70.  Remember I still have no idea
beyond some searching on the internet what boards and peripherals a
PDP-11/70 consists of.  For that matter, I don't know what boards and
peripherals are in the PDP-8/e or PDP-8/I either.
I hope this helps you all understand me and my desires a little better.
Please keep your ideas, suggestions and questions coming.  You have my
complete attention!  I'm sitting on the edge of my seat as it were.  :)  I'm
beginning to see that this is going to be a very long term project.  Cool!
I need something to keep my mind sharp.  Take care my friends.

Kip Koon
computer...@sc.rr.com
http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/User:Computerdoc


-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Kip Koon
via cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 1:44 AM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: Which Dec Emulation is the MOST useful and Versatile?

Hi DEC Enthusiast's,

If I were to have to decide on just one model DEC PDP system to run in a DEC
Emulator, which one would be the most useful, versatile and has the most
software available for it?

I have only ever used a real PDP-8/e system way back in high school so I'm
not up to par on any other model of DEC PDP system and I only know BASIC on
the PDP-8/e so not much there either.

I hear a lot about the PDP-11.  I found out that there were 16 major PDP
models at one time so I'm not too sure which one to pick.  

I built Oscar Vermeulen's PiDP-8/I which I'm waiting on 1 part for.  Other
than that project which is in a holding pattern at the moment, I have no
other PDP anything running in any form.

Back in the day when Bill Gates and company 1st started out, I had always
wondered how they developed their very 1st software program - Altair Basic.
I was pleasantly surprised one day when I saw a B/W 

Acorn, Apple, IBM old computers up for auction (via Proxibid)

[Mark Linimon via cctalk]

There are a few lots that may be of interest to people on this list.

Disclaimer: I have no connection to any of this.  I just browse proxibid.com
once in a while.

The overall link:

  
https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/Michael-F-Dilliard-Auction-amp-Realty-Company-LLC/5700/AuctionsByCompany.asp?ahid=5700=0#13///endingsoonest//all/5700/0/1/

The particular lots:

  ACORN computer programs
https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/ACORN-computer-programs/38893071/LotDetail.asp?lid=38893071=1
  Vintage computer lot (Apple)   
https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/Vintage-computer-lot-APPLE-external-disk-drive-user-manuals-more/38893094/LotDetail.asp?lid=38893094=1
  APPLE Graphics Tablet + Acorn  
https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/Vintage-APPLE-Graphics-Tablet-British-BBC-Microcomputer-System/38893095/LotDetail.asp?lid=38893095=1
  Vintage APPLE IIe  
https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/Vintage-APPLE-IIe-computer-keyboard-monitor-external-drive/38893096/LotDetail.asp?lid=38893096=1
  IBM PC Jr computer lot 
https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/IBM-PC-Jr-computer-lot/38893111/LotDetail.asp?lid=38893111=1

(editor's note for the last item: "ew.")

mcl

Re: HP 21mx/whatever processor works with doublesided key... i forgot model#

[dwight via cctalk]

Most real lock smiths can make a key for it. Just remove the lock and bring it 
to them.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Ed via cctalk 

Sent: Friday, October 20, 2017 8:24:28 PM
To: jw...@classiccmp.org; cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: HP 21mx/whatever processor works with doublesided key... i forgot 
model#

IT RUNS MEMORY RESIDENT  LOADED  FROM PAPER TAPE?
ED#


In a message dated 10/20/2017 7:37:48 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
jw...@classiccmp.org writes:

"Forth-like" system that is well developed/flushedout. So in  addition to
BASIC, you get oh-so-many-wonderful-things. I very highly  recommend that
anyone messing with 21mx/1000 systems take a good look at  HP-IPL/OS.

VCF PNW (Seattle) exhibitor registration is open

[Evan Koblentz via cctalk]

Hello cctalkers! Join us as an exhibitor for the inaugural Vintage 
Computer Festival Pacific-Northwest, Feb. 10-11, at the Living Computer 
Museum in Seattle.


http://www.vcfed.org/registration/exhibitor_register-online.php?event_id=5



Evan Koblentz, director
Vintage Computer Federation
a 501(c)3 educational non-profit

e...@vcfed.org
(646) 546-

www.vcfed.org
facebook.com/vcfederation
twitter.com/vcfederation

Re: Convex Computer Corporation manuals

[Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctalk]

On 10/24/17, 4:29 PM, "cctech on behalf of Unibus via cctech"
 wrote:

>Anybody want some Convex Computer Corporation manuals on microfiche. The
>titles are:
>
>   - CONVEX C Guide
>   - CONVEX C Optimization Guide
>   - CONVEX FORTRAN User's Guide
>   - CONVEX FORTRAN Reference Manual
>   - CONVEX FORTRAN Optimization Guide
>   - CONVEX VECLIB User's Guide
>   - CONVEX LSQPACK User's Guide
>
>Free to a good home or it will be plastic recycling

Yes, please! I¹d very happily pay for shipping to the Netherlands. I have
several Convex systems, two C1¹s, a C220, and a C240. The C220 is working
now, I¹m still trying to bring the others back to life.

Camiel

RE: Cleaning and Restoring a Badly Corroded PSU

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

Actually I didn't say they have leaked, but I do say that they could only
have leaked from the bottom, but you can't tell. This does appear to be what
happened to some of the capacitors I had on the other PSU I repaired
recently, although again I can't be sure. However there *is* something on
the board to which dirt and little shards from the heat sinks appears to be
sticking at least a bit, but perhaps it is just dirt that has absorbed
humidity. Certainly the board has been in some kind of humid environment,
the case itself is quite rusty in places. So it is probably more like
someone else suggested, and not capacitor leakage but a humid/damp storage
environment.

 

Either way, does anyone know if those heatsinks are a standard part? If not
I am not averse to replacing them with something else, but it would be nice
to keep things as original as possible.

 

Regards

 

Rob

 

From: dwight [mailto:dkel...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 23 October 2017 23:10
To: r...@jarratt.me.uk; Rob Jarratt ; General
Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Cleaning and Restoring a Badly Corroded PSU

 

I don't see why you have assumed that one of the capacitors has leaked. The
corrosion could have come from water or condensation onto the board.

I don't see any corrosion on the components.

Dwight

 

  _  

From: cctalk  > on behalf of Rob Jarratt via cctalk
 >
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2017 1:45:42 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Cleaning and Restoring a Badly Corroded PSU 

 

I am now looking at the H7826 PSU that came with a TURBOchannel Extender. It
looks like there may have been capacitor leakage and some heatsinks will
need to be replaced. I have posted pictures here:

 

https://robs-old-computers.com/2017/10/23/corroded-h7826-power-supply/

 

So two questions:

 

1.   Any suggestion on how to clean the board? Some of the corners are a
bit inaccessible to reach with just a cotton bud and isopropyl.

2.   Do those heat sinks have a particular name/spec that I can search
for?

 

Thanks

 

Rob

Re: Which Dec Emulation is the MOST useful and Versatile?

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Kip Koon

> f I were to have to decide on just one model DEC PDP system to run in a
> DEC Emulator, which one would be the most useful, versatile and has the
> most software available for it?

To echo what others have said, when you say 'emulator', do you mean hardware
(the usual meaning of emulator), or software (which would be a simulator)?
And if you mean hardware, are you going to emulate the bus as well?

Having said that, I think you should ask yourself 'what do you want to do
with it'? The thing is there are a lot of DEC machines which are
'interesting', and have a lot of software available for them: the -8, -10,
11, -15 and VAX (dunno if you consider that a 'PDP') are all in that category.

> I hear a lot about the PDP-11. I found out that there were 16 major PDP
> models at one time so I'm not too sure which one to pick.

They aren't really that different; many of them are more 'the optimal
technology to implement in' changed over the (fairly) long life of the
architecture, so many of models are where an earlier one was replaced by a
more cost-effective equivalent. E.g.  for one 'class', the /20 (TTL SSI) was
followed by the /05 (microcoded TTL SSI), and then the /04 (TTL MSI), and then
the /03 (LSI); in another the /40 was followed by the /34 and then the
/23. Etc. There are really only 3 kinds of -11:

- Those without memory management (the /20, etc)
- Those with 'simple' memory management (the /40, etc)
- Those with 'complex' memory management (all the others)

Simple software will run on all three; more complex (e.g. Unix) only on the
latter two.

> Back in the day when Bill Gates and company 1st started out
> ... a B/W photo of a young Bill Gates bending over the operator at what
> looked like a very small computer. Maybe it was just a terminal. I
> don't remember. I understand they did software development on a DEC PDP
> of some sort. 

The very earliest version of their BASIC was done on PDP-10's running TOPS-10
- first the one at Harvard, and then some commercial time-sharing system in
the Boston area.

> I have many projects in the works already so I decided to setup a
> software emulation of just one of the DEC PDP models.

OK, so it's going to be just running a simulator?

> I have heard a lot about the PDP-11 which if the information I read is
> correct was 16-bits. in the world... The PDP-11 is the model I hear the
> most about. 

Well, for good reason, I think.

It was at one point (1980), the best-selling computer, and really made the
minicomputer (yes, I know the -8 was the first successful mini, but their
size/computing power range was a lot smaller than the -11, and so it didn't
have as widespread a utilization as with the -11).

It's also the machine that Unix was developed on, so if you want to play
around with the 'classic' early Unixes (e.g. Version 6), you'll be wanting
to go with the -11.

Finally, it is to me the finest architecture ever, in terms of elegance, and
bang/buck - the power they squeezed into a 16-bit instruction is pretty
mind-blowing. If you want to see a really elegant design, look at the -11. A
lot of later architectures stole a lot of ideas from the -11.

If you want to go the -11/V6 route, there are instructions for doing
so here:

  http://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_Unix_v6_in_SIMH
  http://gunkies.org/wiki/Installing_UNIX_Sixth_Edition_on_Ersatz-11

and I have a very detailed page for doing so with the Ersatz-11 simulator
(which is _very_ fast, and easy to work with), with a lot of useful pre-built
disks, and tools, here:

  http://www.chiappa.net/~jnc/tech/V6Unix.html


The other one I would point to as 'interesting' is the PDP-10, _especially_
if you run ITS on it. There's a very complete and detailed page here:

  https://www.cosmic.com/u/mirian/its/itsbuild.html

for bringing it up under SIMH. There's also KLH10 as a simulator, which I
know a lot of people like for running ITS; instructions here:

  http://its.victor.se/wiki/setup

which has a lot of detail about how to get things running _on_ your ITS once
you have it up.


Please let us know what you decide... :-)

Noel

RE: Which Dec Emulation is the MOST useful and Versatile?

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dave Wade
> via cctalk
> Sent: 24 October 2017 10:01
> To: 'Kip Koon' ; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and
> Off-Topic Posts' 
> Subject: RE: Which Dec Emulation is the MOST useful and Versatile?
> 
> Kip,
>  It depends on what your interest is! Of course PDP stood for "Programmed
> Data Processor"
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmed_Data_Processor
> 
> and avoids the use of the word computer because the backers of Digital did
not
> want them building a Computer. I believed it also helped sales as it
by-passed
> corporate purchasing edicts which said only central IT departments could
buy
> computers...
> 
> The PDP8 is the smallest but most hackable, but things like Oscars 8I or
the
> SBC6120 which turns up from time to time (google SBC6120) mean that its
> possible to have something approaching a physical PDP-8 to play with
rather
> than just emulation. But if small is beautiful then may be the machine for
you.
> These were used all over the place. Manchester University Medical School
had
> one connected to its IBM7090, Leeds to its KDF9. Really a revolution in
> computing. Its amazing what folks got to run on these using only paper
tape.
> Eventually made in a Microprocessor with the Harris and Interrail 6100 and
> then the Harris HD6120..
> 
>  The PDP-11 covers a huge range of systems and I know there are still some
> PDP-11's in service. At one time Barclays, a UK bank used them as Branch
> Controllers so every branch had a PDP-11 and in those days there were many
> more branches than there are now. I learnt BASIC on one at Salford
University
> in 1977. When I worked for the uk's Natural Environment Research Council
we
> must have had hundreds of the things. We used them to build "media
> conversion" systems that would copy data from scientific instruments and
to
> build front end concentrators for our Honeywell L66. More capable than the
> PDP-11 but possibly less easy to hack. Lots of different Operating Systems
out
> there but for some licensing is interesting.  Was used to develop early
Unix
> 
>  The VAX-11 is probably my favourite box. I have several physical VAXen
all
> with the VMS OS installed. Really gives a flavour of what interactive
computing
> was like in the 1970's and 1980's. Very capable but even less easy to
hack, and
> initially big and expensive, which is why the PDP-11 continued to be
available
> for many years.
> 
>  There is also the PDP-10/Dec System 10 which was claimed to be a
Mainframe
> but I never met one of these. Probably not for the faint hearted.
> 

Ah the PDP10! Although the very first computer I used was a PDP11, it was so
briefly that I really consider the PDP10 (in DECSYSTEM-20 form) to be my
first computer. It is easy to emulate in SIMH, although the SIMH emulation
is of a less capable processor (KS10) and I think KLH10 is the best emulator
for that (but I have never used it).

For general DEC goodness I would go for a PDP11 or a VAX, preferably both.
And as Dave and others have pointed out, PDP was not really a line of
computers, it was multiple lines of different computers.

I forsee a *long* thread here.

Regards

Rob

Re: Convex Computer Corporation manuals

[Ethan via cctalk]

Does the content exist online / scanned?


Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 01:29:37 +1100
From: Unibus via cctalk 
Reply-To: Unibus ,
"General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Convex Computer Corporation manuals

Anybody want some Convex Computer Corporation manuals on microfiche. The
titles are:

  - CONVEX C Guide
  - CONVEX C Optimization Guide
  - CONVEX FORTRAN User's Guide
  - CONVEX FORTRAN Reference Manual
  - CONVEX FORTRAN Optimization Guide
  - CONVEX VECLIB User's Guide
  - CONVEX LSQPACK User's Guide

Free to a good home or it will be plastic recycling



--
: Ethan O'Toole

Re: Is it really that quiet out there?

[Robert via cctalk]

 The last one that I received was October 20th.

Robert

On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 2:27 PM, jim stephens via cctalk
 wrote:
> Last one of those was a couple weeks ago.  Then there were a bunch of backed
> up ones.
>
> List has been steady and in real time (from what I've seen).
> thanks
> Jim
>
>
> On 10/20/2017 11:30 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>Lately, I've received
>> message "belches"
>
>

Re: Which Dec Emulation is the MOST useful and Versatile?

[allison via cctalk]

On Oct 24, 2017, at 1:44 AM, Kip Koon via cctalk  wrote:

Hi DEC Enthusiast's,

If I were to have to decide on just one model DEC PDP system to run in a DEC
Emulator, which one would be the most useful, versatile and has the most
software available for it?

I have only ever used a real PDP-8/e system way back in high school so I'm
not up to par on any other model of DEC PDP system and I only know BASIC on
the PDP-8/e so not much there either.

I hear a lot about the PDP-11.  I found out that there were 16 major PDP
models at one time so I'm not too sure which one to pick.

I built Oscar Vermeulen's PiDP-8/I which I'm waiting on 1 part for.  Other
than that project which is in a holding pattern at the moment, I have no
other PDP anything running in any form.



The problem is how your asking.

First question is there is not one PDP system  and more than there is 
one FORD.

So you have to narrow the question to your interests such as 12, 16, 18, 32,
 or 36 bit systems as DEC made many very different systems.

Of those the PDP-8 series, 12 bit are interesting.
PDP11 the 16bit line
or for the unusual 18 bit PDP-7 or 36 bit PDP10.
There is even emulation for PDP-1 (18bit).

When you ask what is more versatile are you asking about the emulator or
the emulated end system?

For most the PDP-8 as its one system where the hardware and software is 
fairly

understandable to the lowest levels.

For the PDP-11 the variety of hardware and system configurations are 
nearly exceeded
by operating system and user software.  Its also the definitive Unix 
machine to some.

Its is one of my favorites either 11/73 as hardware or 11/70 as a sim.

As to SIMs  SIMH is by far the most widely known and versatile, with it 
and software

you can emulate most anything even something from your imagination.

E-11 Aka Ersatz-11 is a very good PDP-11 emulator.

There are no shortage of other simulators.  I'm sure everyone has their 
favorites.


Me I'm into the actual hardware so I have PDP-8F, an assortment of 
PDP11s from
the initial LSI-11 though the 11/73 hardware.  That and a boat load of 
MicroVAX
systems.  I limit my DEC systems to that scope for space mostly. THe 
rest of the

hardware in the collection is CP/M based (S100, Kaypro, Ampro...).

So pick a DEC system that has interest and simulate it or all if you 
have time.


Allison

Convex Computer Corporation manuals

[Unibus via cctalk]

Anybody want some Convex Computer Corporation manuals on microfiche. The
titles are:

   - CONVEX C Guide
   - CONVEX C Optimization Guide
   - CONVEX FORTRAN User's Guide
   - CONVEX FORTRAN Reference Manual
   - CONVEX FORTRAN Optimization Guide
   - CONVEX VECLIB User's Guide
   - CONVEX LSQPACK User's Guide

Free to a good home or it will be plastic recycling

Re: Which Dec Emulation is the MOST useful and Versatile?

[william degnan via cctalk]

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> > On Oct 24, 2017, at 1:44 AM, Kip Koon via cctalk 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi DEC Enthusiast's,
> >
> > If I were to have to decide on just one model DEC PDP system to run in a
> DEC
> > Emulator, which one would be the most useful, versatile and has the most
> > software available for it?
> >
>

I think OS/8 is pretty good for a one user system, if that's what you're
using it for.  You already kind of know it and one can run a lot of
languages on it.  I'd agree about the 11/70, but only if you're running the
kinds of applications found on the disk images that are out there.
Otherwise over time you can make your own tapes/RL02/RK05.etc disk pack
sets (or whatever) to emulate in.

I have a Next Thing CHIP with as many SimH builds and images as I could
find and test to set up, DEC included, so I can switch around at will.  I
have my a serial terminal for I/O.  Certainly never get bored with that
kind of setup.

Bill

Re: Which Dec Emulation is the MOST useful and Versatile?

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Oct 24, 2017, at 1:44 AM, Kip Koon via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi DEC Enthusiast's,
> 
> If I were to have to decide on just one model DEC PDP system to run in a DEC
> Emulator, which one would be the most useful, versatile and has the most
> software available for it?
> 
> I have only ever used a real PDP-8/e system way back in high school so I'm
> not up to par on any other model of DEC PDP system and I only know BASIC on
> the PDP-8/e so not much there either.
> 
> I hear a lot about the PDP-11.  I found out that there were 16 major PDP
> models at one time so I'm not too sure which one to pick.  
> 
> I built Oscar Vermeulen's PiDP-8/I which I'm waiting on 1 part for.  Other
> than that project which is in a holding pattern at the moment, I have no
> other PDP anything running in any form.

When you say "emulation" do you mean a software emulator like SIMH or E11?  For 
those, the model choice is just a startup parameter, so you can change at will.

Or do you mean an FPGA based one like PDP2011?  There too the choice is a 
parameter, when you build the VHDL into the actual FPGA bits.

In any case, if you want to pick a particular model, I would say 11/70 is a 
good choice.  While near the end of the PDP11 era the Q-bus became mainstream, 
for much of the time the Unibus was either the only or at least the primary I/O 
bus.  It has the full memory management unit and full floating point, so any 
software that requires these is happy.  It has 22 bit addressing for big 
memory.  And it is old enough that early operating systems like DOS will work.  
You could even turn on CIS instructions and call it an 11/74, the semi-mythical 
11/70 variant for commercial applications (COBOL) that never shipped, some say 
because it was too good compared to the VAX 11/780.

One more consideration: if by "emulator" you mean something in hardware that 
has an actual DEC I/O bus coming out of it and accepts real DEC cards, then a 
Q-bus system may be better, it depends on what I/O devices you can most readily 
find.  If so, I'd go for the 11/73.

paul

RE: Which Dec Emulation is the MOST useful and Versatile?

[Dave Wade via cctalk]

Kip,
 It depends on what your interest is! Of course PDP stood for "Programmed
Data Processor"  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmed_Data_Processor

and avoids the use of the word computer because the backers of Digital did
not want them building a Computer. I believed it also helped sales as it
by-passed corporate purchasing edicts which said only central IT departments
could buy computers...

The PDP8 is the smallest but most hackable, but things like Oscars 8I or the
SBC6120 which turns up from time to time (google SBC6120) mean that its
possible to have something approaching a physical PDP-8 to play with rather
than just emulation. But if small is beautiful then may be the machine for
you. These were used all over the place. Manchester University Medical
School had one connected to its IBM7090, Leeds to its KDF9. Really a
revolution in computing. Its amazing what folks got to run on these using
only paper tape. Eventually made in a Microprocessor with the Harris and
Interrail 6100 and then the Harris HD6120..

 The PDP-11 covers a huge range of systems and I know there are still some
PDP-11's in service. At one time Barclays, a UK bank used them as Branch
Controllers so every branch had a PDP-11 and in those days there were many
more branches than there are now. I learnt BASIC on one at Salford
University in 1977. When I worked for the uk's Natural Environment Research
Council we must have had hundreds of the things. We used them to build
"media conversion" systems that would copy data from scientific instruments
and to build front end concentrators for our Honeywell L66. More capable
than the PDP-11 but possibly less easy to hack. Lots of different Operating
Systems out there but for some licensing is interesting.  Was used to
develop early Unix

 The VAX-11 is probably my favourite box. I have several physical VAXen all
with the VMS OS installed. Really gives a flavour of what interactive
computing was like in the 1970's and 1980's. Very capable but even less easy
to hack, and initially big and expensive, which is why the PDP-11 continued
to be available for many years.

 There is also the PDP-10/Dec System 10 which was claimed to be a Mainframe
but I never met one of these. Probably not for the faint hearted.

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Kip Koon
> via cctalk
> Sent: 24 October 2017 06:46
> To: cctech 
> Subject: Which Dec Emulation is the MOST useful and Versatile?
> 
> Hi DEC Enthusiast's,
> 
> If I were to have to decide on just one model DEC PDP system to run in a
DEC
> Emulator, which one would be the most useful, versatile and has the most
> software available for it?
> 
> I have only ever used a real PDP-8/e system way back in high school so I'm
> not up to par on any other model of DEC PDP system and I only know BASIC
> on the PDP-8/e so not much there either.
> 
> I hear a lot about the PDP-11.  I found out that there were 16 major PDP
> models at one time so I'm not too sure which one to pick.
> 
> I built Oscar Vermeulen's PiDP-8/I which I'm waiting on 1 part for.  Other
than
> that project which is in a holding pattern at the moment, I have no other
PDP
> anything running in any form.
> 
> Back in the day when Bill Gates and company 1st started out, I had always
> wondered how they developed their very 1st software program - Altair
Basic.
> I was pleasantly surprised one day when I saw a B/W photo of a young Bill
> Gates bending over the operator at what looked like a very small computer.
> Maybe it was just a terminal.  I don't remember.  I understand they did
> software development on a DEC PDP of some sort.
> 
> Finding this out regenerated my interest in the DEC PDP line of computers.
> 
> I have many projects in the works already so I decided to setup a software
> emulation of just one of the DEC PDP models.  I have heard a lot about the
> PDP-11 which if the information I read is correct was 16-bits.  My
PiDP-8/I is
> 12 bits.  I understand the PDP 10 was 36-bits and the PDP-15 was 18-bit.
> The PDP-11 is the model I hear the most about.
> 
> I also have some experience on some version of  a VAX when I was in the
Air
> Force so I'm thinking of getting a VAX emulation going at some point too.
> 
> So if I'm going to do this, what suggestions, pointers, experiences,
etcetera
> do you guys have for me.  I am very interested in the DEC PDP equipment
> though next to no experience so I have no basis to make a decision.  This
is a
> serious request so I would definitely like to hear what you all have to
say.  If
> you have read this far, thank you.  Take care my friends.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kip Koon
> 
> computer...@sc.rr.com
> 
> http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/User:Computerdoc
> 
> 

Which Dec Emulation is the MOST useful and Versatile?

[Kip Koon via cctalk]

Hi DEC Enthusiast's,

If I were to have to decide on just one model DEC PDP system to run in a DEC
Emulator, which one would be the most useful, versatile and has the most
software available for it?

I have only ever used a real PDP-8/e system way back in high school so I'm
not up to par on any other model of DEC PDP system and I only know BASIC on
the PDP-8/e so not much there either.

I hear a lot about the PDP-11.  I found out that there were 16 major PDP
models at one time so I'm not too sure which one to pick.  

I built Oscar Vermeulen's PiDP-8/I which I'm waiting on 1 part for.  Other
than that project which is in a holding pattern at the moment, I have no
other PDP anything running in any form.

Back in the day when Bill Gates and company 1st started out, I had always
wondered how they developed their very 1st software program - Altair Basic.
I was pleasantly surprised one day when I saw a B/W photo of a young Bill
Gates bending over the operator at what looked like a very small computer.
Maybe it was just a terminal.  I don't remember.  I understand they did
software development on a DEC PDP of some sort.  

Finding this out regenerated my interest in the DEC PDP line of computers.  

I have many projects in the works already so I decided to setup a software
emulation of just one of the DEC PDP models.  I have heard a lot about the
PDP-11 which if the information I read is correct was 16-bits.  My PiDP-8/I
is 12 bits.  I understand the PDP 10 was 36-bits and the PDP-15 was 18-bit.
The PDP-11 is the model I hear the most about.  

I also have some experience on some version of  a VAX when I was in the Air
Force so I'm thinking of getting a VAX emulation going at some point too.

So if I'm going to do this, what suggestions, pointers, experiences,
etcetera do you guys have for me.  I am very interested in the DEC PDP
equipment though next to no experience so I have no basis to make a
decision.  This is a serious request so I would definitely like to hear what
you all have to say.  If you have read this far, thank you.  Take care my
friends.

 

 

Kip Koon

computer...@sc.rr.com

http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/User:Computerdoc