Re: Help identifying IC

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 9:06 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk
 wrote:
> Hi all --
>
> I picked up this little toy at VCF West last summer:
>
> https://1drv.ms/i/s!Aqb36sqnCIfMouYd0HV0ZThE3FnE_Q

Cute!

> As far as I can tell, it's supposed to be a clock

Sure looks like one.

> Can't find anything about this item at all.  At the moment I'm curious what
> the 28-pin IC at the top is

There are a number of 28-pin clock ICs from the era...

MK50250
  http://www.waynekirkwood.com/images/pdf/MK50250_Clock.pdf

MM5313 / MM5315
  http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/nixies/mm5309-5311-5312-5313-5314-5315.pdf

I'm sure there are more.

-ethan

Re: GT-40 etc.

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:25 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr  wrote:
>> On Jan 20, 2018, at 8:07 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:
>> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 8:58 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr  wrote:
>>> As I understand it, the power for the DACs actually comes from the 
>>> monitor...
>>
>> ... Seems that it wouldn't be that hard to make an external PSU to replace 
>> that.
>
> I looked into it a while ago (since I have a VT11 somewhere but no tube).  
> Too many
> other projects and *work* have gotten in the way.  I’ll get back to it 
> eventually unless
> someone beats me to it.  ;-)

I am unlikely to beat you to it, so I will keep an eye open for anyone
attempting it.

Practically speaking, beyond playing Lunar Landar, I don't know what I
would do with a VT11/GT40 anyway.

-ethan

Re: GT-40 etc.

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

> On Jan 20, 2018, at 8:07 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 8:58 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr  wrote:
>> As I understand it, the power for the DACs actually comes from the monitor 
>> (VR12/4/7) and
>> thus you can’t use any monitor without some additional circuitry to provide 
>> the power to the
>> DACs.
> 
> Interesting.  I didn't know that about the VT11.  Seems that it
> wouldn't be that hard to make an external PSU to replace that.

I looked into it a while ago (since I have a VT11 somewhere but no tube).  Too 
many
other projects and *work* have gotten in the way.  I’ll get back to it 
eventually unless
someone beats me to it.  ;-)

TTFN - Guy

Re: GT-40 etc.

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 8:58 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr  wrote:
> As I understand it, the power for the DACs actually comes from the monitor 
> (VR12/4/7) and
> thus you can’t use any monitor without some additional circuitry to provide 
> the power to the
> DACs.

Interesting.  I didn't know that about the VT11.  Seems that it
wouldn't be that hard to make an external PSU to replace that.

-ethan

Re: GT-40 etc.

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 8:32 PM, Paul Anderson  wrote:
> I think just the VR12, VR14, and the VR17.

OK.  I've never had any of those.  I'm more wondering what modern
tubes might work.

> I might have an extra VT11 backplane.

I may also have the backplane.  I'm not as certain of that.

-ethan

Re: Re: A walk through of my legendary warehouse sale in the 1990s.

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

yes  amazing! I  see some microscope, 16 mm Mitchell film marines  and  some  
still cameras  I  would love!  ed#
 
In a message dated 1/20/2018 8:38:51 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
alexandre.tabaj...@gmail.com writes:

 
What a dream place! :D



2018-01-21 1:23 GMT-02:00 Ed Sharpe via cctalk :
yikes that was a lot  to carry up the stairs?
 
  
 In a message dated 1/20/2018 7:26:58 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

  
  This is a digitized HI8 tape of a walk through of an early Warehouse Sale I
 ran from 1995 to 1998. There is a small sections of collectable computers
 in the middle of the tape with a few others scattered through the sale.
 Fond memories and hard to believe it was 22 years ago.

https://youtu.be/8Pme8mZU-Xc

 --
 Paxton Hoag
 Astoria, OR
 USA

 

 Virus-free.
www.avg.com
 

 <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: Help identifying IC

[Brent Hilpert via cctalk]

The mid-70s saw a plethora of dedicated-logic LSI TOD clock chips in 24-28 and 
sometimes 40 pin packages.
Most prevalent IME were those made by National, Mostek and Fairchild.

Going by the labelling for the other two chips, fair chance the ID of the big 
chip is staring right at us: MPS 7123.
Micro Power Systems and Commodore Semiconductor Group used chip ids of the form 
MPS, although I have nothing for specifically MPS7123.
The former would fit the battery operation.
Try tilting the IC obliquely to the light and viewing angle if you haven't, 
often shows up a remnant impression of printing on the IC.

I never did see a TOD clock chip in a gold-topped package - they were generally 
targetted for the low-cost consumer market - although by the date code it may 
be early enough, in the period that consumer products would have such packages.

The clock chips were pretty straightforward but varied in options:
generally 2 power pins
2 oscillator pins (for the multiplexing)
50/60hz input pin (for TOD timing if separate from internal 
oscillator)
4 or 6 digit-drive pins
7 segment-drive pins
some setting/mode control pins which could be either switched 
direct to a power rail or multiplexed with isolation diodes off the digit pins
often an AM/PM indicator pin
alarm control output pin

(There were some for non-multiplexed display drive but that would be >28 pins.)
(Some had BCD rather than 7-seg numeral outputs)

So, yes, it's hard to say, could be a dedicated TOD clock, could be an 
evaluation module for something like a multi-digit decade counter IC.
Perhaps a start-stop timer, 3 switches: start / stop / reset.

Not difficult to trace out, could see if there are any other pins that might be 
for external connections like timing control or counter inputs.



On 2018-Jan-20, at 6:06 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:

> Hi all --
> 
> I picked up this little toy at VCF West last summer:
> 
> https://1drv.ms/i/s!Aqb36sqnCIfMouYd0HV0ZThE3FnE_Q
> 
> As far as I can tell, it's supposed to be a clock and I assume it was a kit 
> -- this one was definitely hand-assembled.  It's powered by two AA's 
> (apparently, there are no markings), has a 4 digit LED display, and at the 
> moment it does not work at all.
> 
> Can't find anything about this item at all.  At the moment I'm curious what 
> the 28-pin IC at the top is -- there are no markings of any kind anywhere on 
> the chip.  It has an interesting construction -- blue plastic on both sides 
> with a metal cap over the die.  The two other ICs are RCA 3081 and RCA 3082 
> which are simply transistor arrays for driving the 4-digit LED display.  I 
> assume the 28-pin IC is a simple microcontroller with built-in ROM, or 
> perhaps it's a device specifically designed to run a digital clock.  Whatever 
> it is, I'd love to know what it does so I can debug this thing and possibly 
> source a replacement.
> 
> I realize this is not a lot of information to go on, but on the off-chance 
> someone's seen something like this before I figured I'd give it a go...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Josh
> 

Re: A walk through of my legendary warehouse sale in the 1990s.

[Alexandre Souza via cctalk]

What a dream place! :D


2018-01-21 1:23 GMT-02:00 Ed Sharpe via cctalk :

> yikes that was a lot  to carry up the stairs?
>
>
> In a message dated 1/20/2018 7:26:58 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
> cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
>
>
>  This is a digitized HI8 tape of a walk through of an early Warehouse Sale
> I
> ran from 1995 to 1998. There is a small sections of collectable computers
> in the middle of the tape with a few others scattered through the sale.
> Fond memories and hard to believe it was 22 years ago.
>
> https://youtu.be/8Pme8mZU-Xc
>
> --
> Paxton Hoag
> Astoria, OR
> USA
>
>  utm_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail>
> Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
>  utm_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>

Re: A walk through of my legendary warehouse sale in the 1990s.

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

yikes that was a lot  to carry up the stairs?
 
 
In a message dated 1/20/2018 7:26:58 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 
 This is a digitized HI8 tape of a walk through of an early Warehouse Sale I
ran from 1995 to 1998. There is a small sections of collectable computers
in the middle of the tape with a few others scattered through the sale.
Fond memories and hard to believe it was 22 years ago.

https://youtu.be/8Pme8mZU-Xc

-- 
Paxton Hoag
Astoria, OR
USA


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

A walk through of my legendary warehouse sale in the 1990s.

[Paxton Hoag via cctalk]

This is a digitized HI8 tape of a walk through of an early Warehouse Sale I
ran from 1995 to 1998. There is a small sections of collectable computers
in the middle of the tape with a few others scattered through the sale.
Fond memories and hard to believe it was 22 years ago.

https://youtu.be/8Pme8mZU-Xc

-- 
Paxton Hoag
Astoria, OR
USA


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Help identifying IC

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

Hi all --

I picked up this little toy at VCF West last summer:

https://1drv.ms/i/s!Aqb36sqnCIfMouYd0HV0ZThE3FnE_Q

As far as I can tell, it's supposed to be a clock and I assume it was a 
kit -- this one was definitely hand-assembled.  It's powered by two AA's 
(apparently, there are no markings), has a 4 digit LED display, and at 
the moment it does not work at all.


Can't find anything about this item at all.  At the moment I'm curious 
what the 28-pin IC at the top is -- there are no markings of any kind 
anywhere on the chip.  It has an interesting construction -- blue 
plastic on both sides with a metal cap over the die.  The two other ICs 
are RCA 3081 and RCA 3082 which are simply transistor arrays for driving 
the 4-digit LED display.  I assume the 28-pin IC is a simple 
microcontroller with built-in ROM, or perhaps it's a device specifically 
designed to run a digital clock.  Whatever it is, I'd love to know what 
it does so I can debug this thing and possibly source a replacement.


I realize this is not a lot of information to go on, but on the 
off-chance someone's seen something like this before I figured I'd give 
it a go...


Thanks,

Josh

Re: GT-40 etc.

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

As I understand it, the power for the DACs actually comes from the monitor 
(VR12/4/7) and
thus you can’t use any monitor without some additional circuitry to provide the 
power to the
DACs.

TTFN - Guy

> On Jan 20, 2018, at 5:32 PM, Paul Anderson via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I think just the VR12, VR14, and the VR17.
> 
> I might have an extra VT11 backplane.
> 
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 7:10 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 6:46 PM, Marc Howard via cctalk
>>  wrote:
>>> There was a guy in the Netherlands (I believe) who was trying to sell a
>>> GT40 for $14K with no delivery option.
>> 
>> Oof!
>> 
>>> If I were on the east coast (or just not very busy) I would have higher
>> on
>>> the ebay system just to get the GT40 + monitor.
>> 
>> What monitors work with the GT40?  I happen to have the boardset (and
>> an 11/05) but not the CRT (and no lightpen).  What could I drive with
>> those boards?
>> 
>> -ethan
>> 

OT - Has anyone seen / have a copy of computer lore story about a DC consolidation?

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

Sorry for the off topic post.

I'm hoping that someone here might have seen a (what I consider to be) a 
computer lore type story about a contractor that was brought in part way 
through a project to consolidate three DCs into one.  -  In the end he 
managed to do it early and under budget.  The kicker is that they quite 
literally physically moved and re-connected everything the way that it 
was.  Meaning that there were still WAN circuits (local only of course) 
between equipment that was previously in different DCs.


I would like to find a copy of this story and save it in my archive. But 
I've not been able to do so.  Thus I'm asking a wider audience to see if 
anyone might be able to give me a pointer.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: GT-40 etc.

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

I think just the VR12, VR14, and the VR17.

I might have an extra VT11 backplane.

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 7:10 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 6:46 PM, Marc Howard via cctalk
>  wrote:
> > There was a guy in the Netherlands (I believe) who was trying to sell a
> > GT40 for $14K with no delivery option.
>
> Oof!
>
> > If I were on the east coast (or just not very busy) I would have higher
> on
> > the ebay system just to get the GT40 + monitor.
>
> What monitors work with the GT40?  I happen to have the boardset (and
> an 11/05) but not the CRT (and no lightpen).  What could I drive with
> those boards?
>
> -ethan
>

Re: GT-40 etc.

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 6:46 PM, Marc Howard via cctalk
 wrote:
> There was a guy in the Netherlands (I believe) who was trying to sell a
> GT40 for $14K with no delivery option.

Oof!

> If I were on the east coast (or just not very busy) I would have higher on
> the ebay system just to get the GT40 + monitor.

What monitors work with the GT40?  I happen to have the boardset (and
an 11/05) but not the CRT (and no lightpen).  What could I drive with
those boards?

-ethan

Re: GT-40 etc.

[Marc Howard via cctalk]

There was a guy in the Netherlands (I believe) who was trying to sell a
GT40 for $14K with no delivery option.

If I were on the east coast (or just not very busy) I would have higher on
the ebay system just to get the GT40 + monitor.

Marc

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 1:12 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > From: Al Kossow
>
> > vt11 is integrated into the 11/05 backplane on the gt40
>
> Right (although I had forgotten that); I listed the 11/05 separately since
> I
> do have data on how much they've been going for - in an attempt to roughly
> value the lot. The GT40, however, no idea. (I recall one was for sale on
> eBay
> for many thousands, but I don't know if that was ever sold, and how much
> for.)
>
> Noel
>

Re: Power plugs and cables for the IBM 3420

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

Those cables came with my 4331 system.  I’ll go and dig them out and maybe 
there will be some sort of part number.
At worst I’ll post some pictures.  You might also want to look up the various 
IBM docs on the 3420 and 3803.  They
should specify those cables.  I also have all the docs in an IBM FE cart, so 
when I have time, I’ll see if there’s anything
there.

TTFN - Guy

> On Jan 20, 2018, at 12:23 PM, Curious Marc via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Can any of you identify which power plugs models these are. They are on my 
> IBM 3420 tapes and connect to the IBM 3803 controller, 3 phase:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ftfpg0owdvb173u/IMG_5066.JPG?dl=0
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/uyzpwcp6sjkvrpf/IMG_5067.JPG?dl=0
> 
> These are for the large vacuum column tapes seen in this video here:
> 
> https://youtu.be/yaPVkw8dnaI
> 
> 
> 
> And if anyone knows where to get these power cables...
> 
> 
> 
> Marc
> 

Re: GT-40 etc.

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Al Kossow

> vt11 is integrated into the 11/05 backplane on the gt40

Right (although I had forgotten that); I listed the 11/05 separately since I
do have data on how much they've been going for - in an attempt to roughly
value the lot. The GT40, however, no idea. (I recall one was for sale on eBay
for many thousands, but I don't know if that was ever sold, and how much for.)

Noel

Power plugs and cables for the IBM 3420

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Can any of you identify which power plugs models these are. They are on my IBM 
3420 tapes and connect to the IBM 3803 controller, 3 phase:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ftfpg0owdvb173u/IMG_5066.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uyzpwcp6sjkvrpf/IMG_5067.JPG?dl=0

These are for the large vacuum column tapes seen in this video here:

https://youtu.be/yaPVkw8dnaI

 

And if anyone knows where to get these power cables...

 

Marc

Early 12-inch WORM disk drives and media

[Tom Gardner via cctalk]

I'm pulling together a timeline of optical computer data storage and having
fun with the early ones.  A copy of Rothchild's Optical Memory Report,  From
the early 80's would be appreciated - hardcopies are at the CHM so maybe
I'll have to drive over there

 

I'm told by a reliable source and am trying to confirm that Philips and
Toshiba were first  circa 1980 so can anyone identify and provide any
details about any 12-inch WORM disk drives and media that were shipped by
either around 1980.

 

FWIW the earliest WORM I can identify is the OSI Laserdrive 1200 which
shipped in 1983.  OSI was a joint venture of Philips and CDC and in turn a
successor to their earlier joint ventures, Optical Media Laboratory in
Holland and Optical Peripherals Laboratory in Colorado.  So the Laserdrive
might be a rebadged or enhanced version of the earlier Philips product.

 

I have no clue as to any early Toshiba WORM

 

FWIW,  in 1981 Matsushita demonstrated  of a 200 mm diameter WORM disk with
a capacity of 15,000 still pictures but this wasn't a data disk.  Not clear
when and if it shipped as a product.  [source:
http://www.wtec.org/loyola/opto/ad_matsu.htm ]

 

There is also an indication that Thompson CF also had an optical data
storage system circa 1981 but I can find nothing about it.

 

Any recollections and all literature would be appreciated.

 

Tom

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: GT-40 etc.

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 1/20/18 5:34 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

>  $2000PDP-11/05
>   $?? GT40 display hardware

vt11 is integrated into the 11/05 backplane on the gt40

it looks like they took the display and changed the front panel to rack mount 
it.
sadly, the light pen is missing, those are impossible to find.
fortunately, the keyboard is still there

hope whoever retrieves it bugs them to see if the light pen is somewhere.

Re: New TestFDC Results Registry

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Jonathan

> if someone wants to sticky this (here or in other forums), I think this
> would be a valuable resource for anyone wanting to use ImageDisk on
> non-PC formats.

How about someone doing an ImageDisk page on the Computer History Wiki; we
could include an 'External link' to the new registry (and also the original
one, etc).

Noel

Re: GT-40 etc.

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Kyle Owen

> A tenth the price of the Twiggy Lisa makes that auction look almost
> affordable! Final price was $5600.

Yeah, whoever bought that got, IMO, a pretty good deal (as I predicted). It's
a fair amount of money, but they got a _ton_ of stuff (probably literally :-).

I mean, look what's included (with rough guesses as the value):

  $600  H960 rack
  $600  H960 rack
  $400  RK05 drive
  $600? RK03 drive
  $700? RK11-C controller
 $2000  PDP-8/F  
 $2000  PDP-11/05
  $??   GT40 display hardware
  $400  BA11-F with ?? inside
  %?Teletype
--
$7300

Some of the things are so rare (e.g. the RK03 and RK11-C) I don't have any
comparables (RK11-D's go for $500 or so, FWTW); and on the GT40 I have no
idea whatsoever. (This one doesn't have the usual GT40 display, but a
rack-mounted VRxx?)

Still, it's pretty clear that whoever bought this got a deal. And I haven't
even included the packs ($30 each, another $900 or so), all the Grass analog
gear, etc, etc.

Noel