Re: Anyone have any info on the NEC D2167D-2?

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 5:44 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk
 wrote:
> Hi, all,
>
> I'm going through a box of random ICs and one particular item is not
> showing up on my searches outside of a couple eBay auctions for chip
> collectors.
>
> The IC is a 20-pin ceramic body with side brazed legs, gold pins, chromed
> lid, with NEC D2168D on it with "-2" painted on the ceramic and date codes
> from 1984.  It's almost certainly a RAM chip of some kind, but I'm not
> finding any pinouts or data sheets.
>
> Anyone recognize this?  Anyone know a system that uses them?  I have more
> than 10, and since I haven't run across them before, I probably don't have
> a machine that needs them.
>
> Thanks for any tips.
>
> -ethan

Msg title says D2167D, msg body says D2168D. Assuming D2167D is
correct, an NEC uPD2167 is a 16Kx1 SRAM in a 20-pin DIP package.
Separate data in and data out pins, 14 address pins,  /CS and /WE
pins.  The  uPD2167-2 has a 70ns access time, the  uPD2167-3 has a
55ns access time.

A search for uPD2167 should turn up datasheets.

Re: A CD-ROM that is compatible with the 16700A LA!

[Alexandre Souza via cctalk]

try to change sector size on your external cd from 512 to 2048 bytes or
vice-versa. It is a jumper behind the drive.


2018-02-28 3:01 GMT-03:00 Richard Pope via cctalk :

> Hello all,
>  . . . . For those of you who having not been following my trials and
> tribulations with a 16700A in another topic here is a partial update. I
> received this LA from a benefactor who has stepped forward. A real big
> thanks to him. I have run into that incompatibility problem with External
> CD-ROM Drives.
>  . . . . I am disabled and partially housebound. I am living on SSD so
> money is very tight for me. I am looking for a CD-ROM Drive for little or
> nothing that is compatible with the 16700A I have an NEC 3x Drive that uses
> the CD Carriers. Remember those. I have installed this and a Maxtor 245MB
> SCSI drive in an External SCSI box. The Termination on the CD-ROM Drive is
> turned off and I removed the Termination resistors on the HDD. I have a
> Terminator installed on the end of the SCSI bus on the External Case. Could
> someone please help me out? Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
> GOD Bless and Thanks,
> rich!
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>

A CD-ROM that is compatible with the 16700A LA!

[Richard Pope via cctalk]

Hello all,
 . . . . For those of you who having not been following my trials and 
tribulations with a 16700A in another topic here is a partial update. I 
received this LA from a benefactor who has stepped forward. A real big thanks 
to him. I have run into that incompatibility problem with External CD-ROM 
Drives.
 . . . . I am disabled and partially housebound. I am living on SSD so money is 
very tight for me. I am looking for a CD-ROM Drive for little or nothing that 
is compatible with the 16700A I have an NEC 3x Drive that uses the CD Carriers. 
Remember those. I have installed this and a Maxtor 245MB SCSI drive in an 
External SCSI box. The Termination on the CD-ROM Drive is turned off and I 
removed the Termination resistors on the HDD. I have a Terminator installed on 
the end of the SCSI bus on the External Case. Could someone please help me out? 
Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Bug-for-bug compatibility [was RE: SimH DECtape vs. Tops-10 [was RE: Writing emulators [Was: Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!]]]

[Rich Alderson via cctalk]

From: Paul Koning
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 12:19 PM

>> On Feb 26, 2018, at 12:06 PM, Doug Ingraham via cctalk
>> > wrote:

>> The purpose of an emulator is to accurately pretend to be the original
>> hardware.  It doesn't matter that the original OS runs on a particular
>> emulator.  If a program can be written that runs on the original hardware
>> but fails on the emulator then there is a flaw in that emulator.

> That's true.  But it is unfortunately also true that creating a bug for bug
> accurate model of an existing machine is extremely hard.

This is true even in real hardware (or "real" hardware, if you prefer), whether
bug-for-bug or simply correct results for corner cases.

The XKL Toad-1 System was designed to be a superset clone of the KL-10 based
DECSYSTEM-2065 from Digital Equipment Corporation.  It implements the full
30-bit extended addressing introduced with TOPS-20 v4, of which the KL-10
provided a 23-bit subset, and provides native support for 10Mbit Ethernet and
FASTWIDE differential SCSI2 (both state of the art in 1991 when the design was
frozen).

As a better DEC-20, the Toad-1 was a success.  (We will leave aside the issue
of its market failure, which is irrelevant to the story.)

Fast forward 20 years, to Living Computer Museum, where a KI-10 based DEC-1070
was undergoing restoration.  Diagnostics were needed, so the resident TOPS-20
programmer laid hands on the MAINDEC sources for the KI-10 and proceeded to
compile them all and generate paper tapes of the results.  All went smashingly
well until the multiplication test.

The diagnostic source for this test uses a macro to build a set of test values
for X**2 where X is a power of 2.  Internally, Macro-20 uses the IMULM
instruction to build the results.  In the KA-10 manual, IMULx of 2**35 * 2**35
is supposed to store the high order part of the result into the 36 bit word
addressed by the instruction, and set the overflow bit.

On the Toad-1 (and on the Toad-2 prior to our discovery of this bug), a zero is
stored instead.  Since we compiled the KI-10 diagnostics on the Toad-1, this
incorrect result was placed on the diagnostic paper tape, and the KI-10 seemed
to fail the diagnostic.  Imagine our chagrin when days of trying to correct the
problem led to the conclusion that the diagnostic was incorrect.

Rich


Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computers: Museum + Labs
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputers.org

http://www.LivingComputers.org/

Anyone have any info on the NEC D2167D-2?

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

Hi, all,

I'm going through a box of random ICs and one particular item is not
showing up on my searches outside of a couple eBay auctions for chip
collectors.

The IC is a 20-pin ceramic body with side brazed legs, gold pins, chromed
lid, with NEC D2168D on it with "-2" painted on the ceramic and date codes
from 1984.  It's almost certainly a RAM chip of some kind, but I'm not
finding any pinouts or data sheets.

Anyone recognize this?  Anyone know a system that uses them?  I have more
than 10, and since I haven't run across them before, I probably don't have
a machine that needs them.

Thanks for any tips.

-ethan

Re: ARPANET Reaches the Royal Signals and Radar Establishment (RSRE, Malvern)

[Jay Jaeger via cctalk]

On 2/23/2018 11:45 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote:

> The following extract comes from a History of Programming Languages (HOPL)
> retrospective on the development of the Ada programming language written by
> the individual who was the government lead at DARPA for much of the time of
> its development (Colonel William A. Whitaker).  I found it humorous.
> Perhaps you will too.
> 
>  
> 
> -
> 
> The ARPANET connection was inaugurated during a visit to RSRE by Her Royal
> Highness Queen Elizabeth II.  Her Majesty sent a message of greetings to the
> members of the HOLWG from her net account, EIIR, by pressing a red velvet
> Royal carriage return.  Because the address list was long, it took about 45
> seconds for the confirmation to come back, 45 seconds of dead air.  Prince
> Philip remarked, joking respectfully, that it looked like she broke it.
> 
> -
> 
>  
> 
> I suspect that we've "all been there" at one time or another!
> 
> paul
> 
>  
> 
> 

Speaking of lonng response times

In the 1970s, during the development of a home-grown database system
where I used to work (developed shortly before I started there in the
mid 1970s) - that lasted over 40 years - on an IBM 360/65 MP, they were
used to having the nascent DBMS and/or the application crash, so they
got used to pressing Enter, waiting a minute or so, then heading down to
the computer room to pick up the core dump.

Well one day they got down to the computer room, but the DBMS was still
running, so they headed back upstairs (one floor up).  After about FIVE
MINUTES the application they were using to test came back with the
correct results.  Mixed emotions: yeah, it worked, but whoa, performance
was clearly going to be a problem.  ;)

By the time the thing was in production it had its own memory manager
instead of using the OS/360 GETMAIN SVC, KORMAN (or "Harvey" for short
;)).  Then it got its own task manager / threading to use instead of the
OS/360 task management - TASKMAN (they really should have called it
TAXMAN  ;)).  Then it got its own subsystem for loading the application
programs, aka content management - yup - KONMAN.  ;)  So, in the end, it
was almost an OS unto itself.  [I served as the DBA for 7 years during
that time.]

Starting out under OS/360 MVT, it survived moves and garnered
enhancements under MVS, MVS/SP, MVS/XA, MVS/ESA, OS/390 and finally z/OS
before it was finally retired.

Re: Shipping a Flexowriter

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/27/2018 11:37 AM, Ed Sharpe wrote:
> *In my  case  lady  worked at a  warehouse and had  her  people  palate
> and strap the  3 ttys!  saved $$   Pack mail is  great though  to  pack
> stuff if no other free reliable  option is there.   We have  to  ship a
>  large  group of  computer front panels  across  country  and  they
> handled it   really  well.
> *
> 
> *Pack Mail  ships alot of  stuff  form many auction places too.*

I've used *Pak Mail* several times for very large delicate items and
never have been disappointed.  Choose your store location, though--some
do not handle large things.

One consideration is that they have contracts with the freight companies
and can often price shipping + packing for less than you'd get charged
for a single LTL shipment from a freight company.

Have them ship it to another Pak Mail location, so you can pick it up,
sans pallet.

Craters and Freighters is another good operation, though they tend to
operate on the East Coast.

--Chuck

Re: Re: Shipping a Flexowriter

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

In my  case  lady  worked at a  warehouse and had  her  people  palate and 
strap the  3 ttys!  saved $$   Pack mail is  great though  to  pack stuff if no 
other free reliable  option is there.   We have  to  ship a  large  group of  
computer front panels  across  country  and  they handled it   really  well. 
 
Pack Mail  ships alot of  stuff  form many auction places too.
 
Ed# www.smecc.org 
 
In a message dated 2/27/2018 11:23:20 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 
 On 02/27/2018 09:29 AM, dwight via cctalk wrote:
> I had a computer item palletized and shipped by Air Freight ( it went
> by surface ). An open pallet will not have things intentionally
> stacked on it. It is possible to have something dropped on it or a
> forklift tine rammed through it but that is another issue.
> 
> In my case, it worked out well but they did not deliver to my door (
> I have no loading dock ). I had to go and pick it up at their
> distribution center ( about a 25 mile drive ).

In my case, I simply used the local packaging franchise, Pak Mail.
Since they routinely load pallets, they didn't mind receiving one. Cost
me all of $5 for a warehouse fee--and they even helped load it into my
truck.

When I got it home, that's where the neighbor and six-pack came in handy.

--Chuck

Re: Shipping

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

I have been thinking about building a Cray 1 cabinet replica for use as 
storage and seating in my office/machine room, so I looked at the one at 
the LCM very closely during VCF PNW. They don't have much padding on the 
cushions.


alan

On 2/27/18 11:10 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:



There are exceptions to each category, such as "desktop" computers too 
heavy to put on flimsy modern desks, minis that won't fit through 
doorways, and you might already live in a mainframe. Although a Cray 
couch doesn't look very comfortable for sleeping on.

Re: Shipping a Flexowriter

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

The more quotes I get regarding shipping, the more I'm thinking to just
drive the 1300 miles (one way) and pick it up myself. I'd rather nothing
bad happen to it, as insurance money can't replace the unit (easily).

Any recommendations on finding a private carrier? It's in Colorado.

Kyle

Re: Shipping

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

A preliminary list:

Wrist computer (Epson RC-20, Fossil PalmOS): wear it.
PDA: put it in a pocket.
Tablet: a large pocket or a briefcase
Notebook: under your arm or a briefcase
Laptop: briefcase or suitcase, public transit
Microcomputer: box, car
Small minicomputer: crate, hand truck, a friend with a pickup truck
Medium minicomputer: built-in casters, refrigerator dolly, a van
Large minicomputer: pallets, forklift, liftgate truck, neighbors and beer
Mainframe: pack up and move to where the computer is.

There are exceptions to each category, such as "desktop" computers too 
heavy to put on flimsy modern desks, minis that won't fit through 
doorways, and you might already live in a mainframe.   Although a Cray 
couch doesn't look very comfortable for sleeping on.

Re: Shipping a Flexowriter

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/27/2018 09:29 AM, dwight via cctalk wrote:
> I had a computer item palletized and shipped by Air Freight ( it went
> by surface ). An open pallet will not have things intentionally
> stacked on it. It is possible to have something dropped on it or a
> forklift tine rammed through it but that is another issue.
> 
> In my case, it worked out well but they did not deliver to my door (
> I have no loading dock ). I had to go and pick it up at their
> distribution center ( about a 25 mile drive ).

In my case, I simply used the local packaging franchise, Pak Mail.
Since they routinely load pallets, they didn't mind receiving one.  Cost
me all of $5 for a warehouse fee--and they even helped load it into my
truck.

When I got it home, that's where the neighbor and six-pack came in handy.

--Chuck

Re: Re: Shipping a Flexowriter

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

Living in the dockless zone
 
Generally if they  deliver  to   your non dock  with a  lift gate truck the  
price of delivery does up  $40  to $100  A  while  back recently has  3  
tabletop  model 14 ... 5 level teletype  western union teletype  tape keyboard 
print on tape machines  shipped in strapped  to  palate  ...  2 for  an 
upcoming  display  on how the deaf  re purposed  teletypes to  their  network ( 
always looking  for ANYTHING  ELSE ON THIS  TOPIC) and  one to go in the tools 
of the journalist  display  over at the university.
 
The nice  people at the freight  place helped us  load them in one of our  
vehicles...
no  extra  charge and  they are  strong!
 
 
reminder... always  carry  plastic  sheeting in case things have  grease and 
oil... and  be  sure to have blankets  and cardboard sheeting to prevent 
scratching inside  vehicle.
 
Ed#  www.smec.org
 
 
In a message dated 2/27/2018 10:29:45 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
 
 I had a computer item palletized and shipped by Air Freight ( it went by 
surface ). An open pallet will not have things intentionally stacked on it. It 
is possible to have something dropped on it or a forklift tine rammed through 
it but that is another issue.

In my case, it worked out well but they did not deliver to my door ( I have no 
loading dock ). I had to go and pick it up at their distribution center ( about 
a 25 mile drive ).

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Cory Heisterkamp via 
cctalk 
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:53:19 AM
To: Kyle Owen; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Shipping a Flexowriter

If you can guarantee nothing will end up placed on top, it should be fine
strapped to a pallet. One thought would be to remove the feet and use the
bolt holes to attach it to a square of plywood, then screw that to the
pallet. Cinching a strap down over the top of it would probably not end
well. Next I'd wrap the thing in lots of cling wrap in every direction:
Keeps the carriage from moving, the cover from popping off, and should
prevent the loss of any loose keycaps. If it still has the paper roll
holder on the back, this should help keep it in place. Feet can be bagged
and put in the type basket.

I had a 90 pound microwave shipped to me once via FedEx Freight on a
quarter? size pallet. A little googling, it looks like the US "beverage"
pallet is 36x36. Might be a good size for this.

Depending on the circumstances, a 'gentler' door to door private party
carrier could be a good alternative (at roughly the same cost). -C



On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 7:39 AM, Kyle Owen via cctalk  wrote:

> Does anyone have any tips on preparing a Flexowriter for shipping? Any
> thoughts as to crate vs. pallet?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle
>

Re: Shipping a Flexowriter

[dwight via cctalk]

I had a computer item palletized and shipped by Air Freight ( it went by 
surface ). An open pallet will not have things intentionally stacked on it. It 
is possible to have something dropped on it or a forklift tine rammed through 
it but that is another issue.

In my case, it worked out well but they did not deliver to my door ( I have no 
loading dock ). I had to go and pick it up at their distribution center ( about 
a 25 mile drive ).

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Cory Heisterkamp via 
cctalk 
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:53:19 AM
To: Kyle Owen; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Shipping a Flexowriter

If you can guarantee nothing will end up placed on top, it should be fine
strapped to a pallet. One thought would be to remove the feet and use the
bolt holes to attach it to a square of plywood, then screw that to the
pallet. Cinching a strap down over the top of it would probably not end
well. Next I'd wrap the thing in lots of cling wrap in every direction:
Keeps the carriage from moving, the cover from popping off, and should
prevent the loss of any loose keycaps. If it still has the paper roll
holder on the back, this should help keep it in place. Feet can be bagged
and put in the type basket.

I had a 90 pound microwave shipped to me once via FedEx Freight on a
quarter? size pallet. A little googling, it looks like the US "beverage"
pallet is 36x36. Might be a good size for this.

Depending on the circumstances, a 'gentler' door to door private party
carrier could be a good alternative (at roughly the same cost). -C



On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 7:39 AM, Kyle Owen via cctalk  wrote:

> Does anyone have any tips on preparing a Flexowriter for shipping? Any
> thoughts as to crate vs. pallet?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle
>

Re: Shipping a Flexowriter

[Cory Heisterkamp via cctalk]

If you can guarantee nothing will end up placed on top, it should be fine
strapped to a pallet. One thought would be to remove the feet and use the
bolt holes to attach it to a square of plywood, then screw that to the
pallet. Cinching a strap down over the top of it would probably not end
well. Next I'd wrap the thing in lots of cling wrap in every direction:
Keeps the carriage from moving, the cover from popping off, and should
prevent the loss of any loose keycaps. If it still has the paper roll
holder on the back, this should help keep it in place. Feet can be bagged
and put in the type basket.

I had a 90 pound microwave shipped to me once via FedEx Freight on a
quarter? size pallet. A little googling, it looks like the US "beverage"
pallet is 36x36. Might be a good size for this.

Depending on the circumstances, a 'gentler' door to door private party
carrier could be a good alternative (at roughly the same cost). -C



On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 7:39 AM, Kyle Owen via cctalk  wrote:

> Does anyone have any tips on preparing a Flexowriter for shipping? Any
> thoughts as to crate vs. pallet?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle
>

Re: Shipping a Flexowriter

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

I guess the first thing you need is my address

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 8:39 AM, Kyle Owen via cctalk  wrote:

> Does anyone have any tips on preparing a Flexowriter for shipping? Any
> thoughts as to crate vs. pallet?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle
>

Shipping a Flexowriter

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Does anyone have any tips on preparing a Flexowriter for shipping? Any
thoughts as to crate vs. pallet?

Thanks,

Kyle

Last sun3 ask: In search of a SCSI controller (VME) for a 3/260

[Ian via cctalk]

Folks, sorry for the Sun spam.


Everything was working in my newly acquired 3/260, and the monitor is even 
starting to shape up.

It was a gorgeous machine until I tried to use the SCSI bus on it.

The controller is dead, very dead. No fuses or obvious things.

No matter the device or chain... including the original disks.

“getbyte error, phase mismatch”

So again I plead- does anyone have a Sun 3 scsi controller, preferably of the 
internally pinned type, sitting on a shelf somewhere?

Thanks,

- Ian