RE: Is This A Shill?

[Ali via cctalk]

 
> Eventually they may wise up. I had a guy selling a group of 4 DEC
  
> So I suggest waiting for a couple more months and write him a 'I see
> it's
> been X months, my offer of Y is still open' note.
> 
>   Noel

That all depends: There is a guy with a listing with missing parts which he
is advertising as working. It has been listed for over two years now with no
movement. I offered to buy a part off of it for ~half of what he wanted for
everything and he replied that "the value was in keeping it all together".
Some sellers are just too dense to grab a good opportunity when it presents
itself!

-Ali

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Alan Perry

> They went unsold again and I waited for the next auction run. I offered
> the split-the-difference price again and they countered even higher. I
> got the message and have stopped bidding. That was a couple months ago
> and they still have sold any of those systems.

Eventually they may wise up. I had a guy selling a group of 4 DEC drives,
asking for somewhat over the going rate. I pointed the guy at a prior 'open
bidding' sale for one, demonstrating the 'fair market value', and offered him
4 times that, plus shipping. He comes back with a much higher number. So I
waited a year, they were still there, now he was more willing to be reasonable.

So I suggest waiting for a couple more months and write him a 'I see it's
been X months, my offer of Y is still open' note.

Noel

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

On 5/2/18 9:55 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote:



On May 2, 2018, at 9:50 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk  wrote:




On May 2, 2018, at 8:58 AM, Cory Heisterkamp via cctalk  
wrote:


[snip]


Chuck makes a good point about the Make-Offer feature, and it should be
noted that sellers have this option available to them within the eBay
messenger system even if the button isn't present in the auction, so if you
have your eye on something and feel the price is too high (or your search
of completed auctions shows the item has been relisted several times with
no takers), there's no harm in sending the seller a message with a dollar
amount in mind. -C

YMMV. There is a type of system that I am interested in adding to my 
collection. An eBay seller has a bunch in a number of BIN/Make Offer  auctions 
over months. I asked an expert on the systems his opinion on the auctions, 
including what he would offer. I offer 50% more, but it was still 2/3rd the BIN 
price. They countered by taking a bit over 10% off. I countered by splitting 
the difference but they didn’t go for it. The auction closed and I looked at 
the auction history. I saw that the systems had previously been offered at a 
price less than my split-the-difference offer. When they came back up for 
auction again, I offered the split-the-difference price and noted that the 
lower price in a previous ‘no-takers’ auction run. They countered with a higher 
price than their counter to my initial offer. They went unsold again and I 
waited for the next auction run. I offered the split-the-difference price again 
and they countered even higher. I got the message and have stopped bidding. 
That was a couple months ago and they still have sold any of those systems.


In case it wasn't clear from the context, I meant to write "still have 
**not** sold any".





I’ve also found that if a seller has a number of the same item for sale, I’ll 
offer to take the entire lot at a significant discount.  A number of the 
sellers will go for that (e.g. they can unload all of the items in one 
transaction).


I am still passing through the systems that came from Pete :)

Actually, I only have two of them left ...

alan



TTFN - Guy

RE: Is This A Shill?

[Kevin Parker via cctalk]

 Or do you use third-party software?

I use Hammersnipe - I set the maximum I'm prepared to pay and walk away. If I 
win it good, if I don’t then that's OK too.

Kevin Parker

-Original Message-
From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Eric Christopherson 
via cctalk
Sent: Thursday, 3 May 2018 01:06
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Is This A Shill?

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Hagstrom, Paul via cctalk < 
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> > On May 1, 2018, at 6:06 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Personally, I find all of this hilarious.  ebay has been shady for 
> > as
> long
> >
> > as I have watched it.  I gave up seriously bidding on "auctions" 
> > years
> ago.
> >
> > Seems every time I bid and ended out the top bidder it would stay 
> > that
> >
> > way till the auction ended and then suddenly someone beat me by a
> >
> > dollar.
>
> That's just the way eBay works.  You'll win anyway if your bid is 
> higher than the other person's snipe.  eBay auto-bids only whatever it 
> takes to beat you, so one increment higher.  You'll notice that if you 
> bid $1000 on something with a $10 opening bid, eBay displays this as a 
> bid of $10, and the time runs out with no other bids, you pay $10.  
> And if someone else bids $20, they lose to your new automatically placed bid 
> of $21.
>
> I don't think there's any advantage to not sniping, since bidding 
> calls attention to a thing and does encourage people to bid it up even 
> if your top snipe bid would beat them.  But this is just basically how 
> the eBay game is played.  I used to snipe by hand, now I usually let a bot do 
> it.
> It bids in the last couple of seconds, so it can look just like what 
> you describe.  Sniping wouldn't work if auctions didn't have a hard 
> end time, but since they do, that's how it works and they state it all 
> quite clearly.  Maybe sometime something shady happens though I've yet 
> to see any convincing evidence of it myself (only people claiming it 
> happens all the time, all the time), but sniping is not itself shady.
>
>  -Paul
>

When you say you snipe with a bot, do you mean you use eBay's highest-bid 
functionality to do it? Or do you use third-party software?

I've never been clear on how the built-in highest-bid functionality works.
I often see things where the same person has several consecutive bids, which 
doesn't make any sense to me in the absence of other people's bids in between 
them.

-- 
Eric Christopherson

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 05/02/2018 04:37 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> On 05/02/2018 01:01 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
>
>> And that is a matter of opinion.
> I've been subscribed to eBay since 1998, when the best I could do for a
> net connection was a somewhat iffy 9600 bps.  At that speed and high
> latency, there was no way to engage in a last-minute bidding war against
> those with T1 hookups.
>
> So now I have a machine act in my place with its own high-speed service.
>
> Be grateful for small things--eSnipe normally submits bids 6 seconds
> before auction close, so those with Wall-Street type hookups have
> thousands of milliseconds to sneak in a last bid.
>
> If you want to do away with sniping, suggest a way to equalize the odds,
> such as a 5 built-in 5 minute delay in bidding--or going with a single
> sealed bid option.  Then get eBay to adopt it.

Or, do as I have and don't play the game at all.  :-)

bill

Re: Is This A Shill?

[TeoZ via cctalk]

I have never had a program to snipe for me, but I like the idea of others 
sniping since it saves me money not being tempted to outbid somebody else 
before the auction ends. I bid low and if I win good, otherwise I wait for 
the item to come around again.


People can get emotional and do bidding wars either in person or using a 3rd 
party app and a large bid. 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 05/02/2018 01:01 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

> And that is a matter of opinion.

I've been subscribed to eBay since 1998, when the best I could do for a
net connection was a somewhat iffy 9600 bps.  At that speed and high
latency, there was no way to engage in a last-minute bidding war against
those with T1 hookups.

So now I have a machine act in my place with its own high-speed service.

Be grateful for small things--eSnipe normally submits bids 6 seconds
before auction close, so those with Wall-Street type hookups have
thousands of milliseconds to sneak in a last bid.

If you want to do away with sniping, suggest a way to equalize the odds,
such as a 5 built-in 5 minute delay in bidding--or going with a single
sealed bid option.  Then get eBay to adopt it.

eBay auctions are time-limited, so timing is part of the game. You
really can't fault someone who takes advantage of any more than you can
fault someone for bidding higher than you.

--Chuck

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 05/02/2018 11:22 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>
> Sniping simply reduced the amount of time that a competing bidder has to
> submit a bid when he discovers that he's being outbid.  There's nothing
> unethical about it--

And that is a matter of opinion.

bill

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 05/02/2018 05:10 AM, Gordon Henderson via cctalk wrote:
> On Tue, 1 May 2018, Hagstrom, Paul via cctalk wrote:
>
>>> On May 1, 2018, at 6:06 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Personally, I find all of this hilarious.  ebay has been shady for 
>>> as long
>>>
>>> as I have watched it.  I gave up seriously bidding on "auctions" 
>>> years ago.
>>>
>>> Seems every time I bid and ended out the top bidder it would stay that
>>>
>>> way till the auction ended and then suddenly someone beat me by a
>>>
>>> dollar.
>>
>> That's just the way eBay works.  You'll win anyway if your bid is 
>> higher than the other person's snipe.  eBay auto-bids only whatever 
>> it takes to beat you, so one increment higher.  You'll notice that if 
>> you bid $1000 on something with a $10 opening bid, eBay displays this 
>> as a bid of $10, and the time runs out with no other bids, you pay 
>> $10.  And if someone else bids $20, they lose to your new 
>> automatically placed bid of $21.
>>
>> I don't think there's any advantage to not sniping, since bidding 
>> calls attention to a thing and does encourage people to bid it up 
>> even if your top snipe bid would beat them.  But this is just 
>> basically how the eBay game is played.  I used to snipe by hand, now 
>> I usually let a bot do it. It bids in the last couple of seconds, so 
>> it can look just like what you describe. Sniping wouldn't work if 
>> auctions didn't have a hard end time, but since they do, that's how 
>> it works and they state it all quite clearly.  Maybe sometime 
>> something shady happens though I've yet to see any convincing 
>> evidence of it myself (only people claiming it happens all the time, 
>> all the time), but sniping is not itself shady.
>
> This.
>
> I use a program called esniper - sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, 
> but when I lose thats OK, because the item sold for more than I was 
> willing to pay.
>
> Recently however I was unable to use esniper (ebay changed something 
> that broke it) so put in my max. bid the old fashioned way. I was 
> winning for a day or so.
>
> Then something very odd happened: very close to the end of the auction 
> a brand new bidder came in and bid 100x the going rate - that 
> immediately maxed out my bid - however the seller more or less 
> immediately cancelled their bid. They waited 10 minutes then did it 
> again, and again the seller cancelled their bid. My guess is that they 
> wanted to see if I'd upped my bid. Then a sniper came in and bid more 
> than me at the last minute. I did feel cheated there though and will 
> never bid on items from that seller again because I felt they somehow 
> had a hand in this bidding but I can't prove it, but then again, it's 
> a sellers market and ebay don't care because they get money from the 
> sale anyway.
>
> Due to the speed the bid was cancelled I'm more or less convinced it 
> was the seller doing this and not the winning bidder, however it did 
> let the winner see my max. bid so may have influenced them. Who knows.
>
> So snipe, "by hand" or with a program and if everyone does it, then it 
> becomes the same as blind auction then it becomes fair again.
>
> Until the seller withdraws the auction 5 minutes before the end 
> because "the listing was incorrect", and re-lists it, trying to get more.
>

I don't like real auctions.  I think it is a stupid way to sell things.  
I certainly wouldn't
agree that this further abomination of the concept is of an value 
whatsoever.  If
one has something to sell one should offer it at the price they think it 
is worth.  If
someone agrees you have a deal.  If no one agrees the seller needs to 
decided if
it is worth lowering the price.  That's business.  Can you imagine of 
all business was
done the eBay way?  Your house? Your car?  Your food?  Scary

bill

Looking for TI 990/12 hardware reference manual ????

[Jerry Wright via cctalk]

I have a later TI 990/12 system with a dead power supply. Looking drawings or 
schematics andI believe there in the hardware reference manual.  The one manual 
on bitsavers  under 990/10shows a older type of power supply.  Mine is 
basically  all on 1 board.  The chassis is a 990 A13 

Thanks, Jerry

Re: Restoring rubber keyboard on a logic analyzer

[Alexandre Souza via cctalk]

http://tabalabs.com.br/videogames/atari/controle_5200/ - that is how I
solved this problem

2018-05-02 15:02 GMT-03:00 Paul Koning via cctalk :

>
>
> > On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:44 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > ...
> > It's not cheap (and IIRC you have to use the whole lot in one go), but
> > Chemtronics make a kit to repair such keypads. Possibly worth it for
> > a useful instrument though.
> >
> > In the UK you can get it here :
> >
> > https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/conductive-adhesives/3888673/
> >
> > and I guess it's also available across the Pond.
> >
> > -tony
>
> It is, and for less money.  The various electronic and industrial supply
> outlets carry it, for example Newark, Digikey, and MSC Direct.  Digikey
> sells it for $23, that's significantly better than 23 pounds...
>
> The Aquadag approach looks interesting, but that may not be as reliable.
> That seems to be a conductive coating intended for rigid objects like CRTs,
> as opposed to a substance intended to repair rubber keypads.
>
> So if my graphite cure doesn't last, it sounds like the Chemtronics
> products is the next answer.
>
> Thanks!
>
> paul
>
>

Re: Restoring rubber keyboard on a logic analyzer

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 11:44 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> ...
> It's not cheap (and IIRC you have to use the whole lot in one go), but
> Chemtronics make a kit to repair such keypads. Possibly worth it for
> a useful instrument though.
> 
> In the UK you can get it here :
> 
> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/conductive-adhesives/3888673/
> 
> and I guess it's also available across the Pond.
> 
> -tony

It is, and for less money.  The various electronic and industrial supply 
outlets carry it, for example Newark, Digikey, and MSC Direct.  Digikey sells 
it for $23, that's significantly better than 23 pounds...

The Aquadag approach looks interesting, but that may not be as reliable.  That 
seems to be a conductive coating intended for rigid objects like CRTs, as 
opposed to a substance intended to repair rubber keypads.

So if my graphite cure doesn't last, it sounds like the Chemtronics products is 
the next answer.

Thanks!

paul

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 8:52 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> To put it bluntly, I list high and expect reasonable
> offers, which rarely happen.

You never know what a box of magic Steve Jobs floppies is worth until
you list them for $666.

Re: (OT) Re: Is This A Shill?

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

> On May 2, 2018, at 9:34 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 5/2/18 9:20 AM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
>> change the format from fixed ending time to automatically extending the 
>> auction period N minutes past the last bid.
> Ain't gonna happen.
> Other sites tried it, and failed because auctions would literally drag on for 
> hours with penny bids.
> 

Not with minimum bid increments.

alan 



> 
> 

Re: (OT) Re: Is This A Shill?

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

> On May 2, 2018, at 9:20 AM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> On May 2, 2018, at 09:08, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Although eBay in the past has tried to kill off sniping because it
>> reduces the number of visits an individual might pay to their site, I
>> think they've given up with trying to kill the sniping system.
> 
> If eBay really wanted to kill sniping and maximize winning bids, I think they 
> could simply change the format from fixed ending time to automatically 
> extending the auction period N minutes past the last bid. There would still 
> be some benefit to a bidder for bidding late and hoping nobody notices, but 
> there would always be a window of up to N minutes for other bidders to decide 
> to increase their losing bid. It would end up as a a hybrid of proxy bid + 
> live auction.

That is what the classic car auctions on Bring-A-Trailer do. Within 2 min of 
auction close time and thereafter, each bid extends the time 2 minutes.

I was high bidder on a car at $15k with 30 seconds to go. The price went up 
$10k (and someone else got the car) in the 15 min after the scheduled close 
time.

alan

> 
> -- 
> Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
> http://www.nf6x.net/
> 

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

> On May 2, 2018, at 9:50 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 2, 2018, at 8:58 AM, Cory Heisterkamp via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>> 

[snip]

>> Chuck makes a good point about the Make-Offer feature, and it should be
>> noted that sellers have this option available to them within the eBay
>> messenger system even if the button isn't present in the auction, so if you
>> have your eye on something and feel the price is too high (or your search
>> of completed auctions shows the item has been relisted several times with
>> no takers), there's no harm in sending the seller a message with a dollar
>> amount in mind. -C
> 
> YMMV. There is a type of system that I am interested in adding to my 
> collection. An eBay seller has a bunch in a number of BIN/Make Offer  
> auctions over months. I asked an expert on the systems his opinion on the 
> auctions, including what he would offer. I offer 50% more, but it was still 
> 2/3rd the BIN price. They countered by taking a bit over 10% off. I countered 
> by splitting the difference but they didn’t go for it. The auction closed and 
> I looked at the auction history. I saw that the systems had previously been 
> offered at a price less than my split-the-difference offer. When they came 
> back up for auction again, I offered the split-the-difference price and noted 
> that the lower price in a previous ‘no-takers’ auction run. They countered 
> with a higher price than their counter to my initial offer. They went unsold 
> again and I waited for the next auction run. I offered the 
> split-the-difference price again and they countered even higher. I got the 
> message and have stopped bidding. That was a couple months ago and they still 
> have sold any of those systems.
> 

I’ve also found that if a seller has a number of the same item for sale, I’ll 
offer to take the entire lot at a significant discount.  A number of the 
sellers will go for that (e.g. they can unload all of the items in one 
transaction).

TTFN - Guy

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

> On May 2, 2018, at 8:58 AM, Cory Heisterkamp via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 10:22 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
>>> On 05/02/2018 08:06 AM, Eric Christopherson via cctalk wrote:
>>> 
>>> When you say you snipe with a bot, do you mean you use eBay's highest-bid
>>> functionality to do it? Or do you use third-party software?
>>> 
>>> I've never been clear on how the built-in highest-bid functionality
>> works.
>>> I often see things where the same person has several consecutive bids,
>>> which doesn't make any sense to me in the absence of other people's bids
>> in
>>> between them.
>> 
>> When you submit a bit do eBay using the traditional method, your bid is
>> really a proxy bid--it's increased by specified increments until it's
>> outbid by another bidder.   If you prevail, you win by the minimum
>> winning proxy bid.
>> 
>> For example, I was looking for a cheap HDMI cable.   There were a few
>> available for a starting bid of $0.50.   I submitted a bit for $1.00 and
>> won with a final price of $0.69.
>> 
>> Sniping simply reduced the amount of time that a competing bidder has to
>> submit a bid when he discovers that he's being outbid.  There's nothing
>> unethical about it--auctions end at a specified time and you get your
>> bid in at the last possible moment.
>> 
>> There's software for this, but since I'm an original member of the
>> eSnipe service, I use them and haven't paid them a fee for years, since
>> bids under a certain amount aren't assessed for a commission.   Later
>> subscribers don't have the same deal, I believe.
>> 
>> When I'm interested in something small, I'll submit a snipe bid for what
>> I'm willing to pay and then forget about it.  If I win, great, if not,
>> no bother.
>> 
>> One thing that many eBay subscribers overlook is the "Make offer"
>> feature of some auctions.  In my opinion, that's where the real gold can
>> be.  If the BIN price looks too high and you really want an item, make
>> an offer.  You never know--the seller just may be want to be rid of the
>> thing and will take any offer.
>> 
>> 
>> FWIW,
>> Chuck
>> 
>> 
> Chuck makes a good point about the Make-Offer feature, and it should be
> noted that sellers have this option available to them within the eBay
> messenger system even if the button isn't present in the auction, so if you
> have your eye on something and feel the price is too high (or your search
> of completed auctions shows the item has been relisted several times with
> no takers), there's no harm in sending the seller a message with a dollar
> amount in mind. -C

YMMV. There is a type of system that I am interested in adding to my 
collection. An eBay seller has a bunch in a number of BIN/Make Offer  auctions 
over months. I asked an expert on the systems his opinion on the auctions, 
including what he would offer. I offer 50% more, but it was still 2/3rd the BIN 
price. They countered by taking a bit over 10% off. I countered by splitting 
the difference but they didn’t go for it. The auction closed and I looked at 
the auction history. I saw that the systems had previously been offered at a 
price less than my split-the-difference offer. When they came back up for 
auction again, I offered the split-the-difference price and noted that the 
lower price in a previous ‘no-takers’ auction run. They countered with a higher 
price than their counter to my initial offer. They went unsold again and I 
waited for the next auction run. I offered the split-the-difference price again 
and they countered even higher. I got the message and have stopped bidding. 
That was a couple months ago and they still have sold any of those systems.

alan 

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

Another nice  feature of the offers is  you can let them  come in and choose 
the highest and best  use  for where the item goes...
 
In a message dated 5/2/2018 8:51:52 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 


On 5/2/18 8:22 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

> One thing that many eBay subscribers overlook is the "Make offer"
> feature of some auctions. In my opinion, that's where the real gold can
> be.

Yup, in both directions.

People seem completely clueless about what a reasonable offer is, on both sides.

The cheapest listings are BIN, and are very efficient at getting rid of things.

To put it bluntly, I list high and expect reasonable
offers, which rarely happen.

Sometimes I guess low on the BIN price. If there are an insane number of views
and no one bites, I RAISE the price. Eventually, someone buys it.

If something isn't moving, I kill the listing, lower the price, and relist.
There are no cost to do this.

I see a few people abuse this, relisting every couple of days to keep their junk
in the new listings.

In my opinion, eBay's fixed-period auctions are a waste of time.

Re: (OT) Re: Is This A Shill?

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 5/2/18 9:20 AM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
> change the format from fixed ending time to automatically extending the 
> auction period N minutes past the last bid.
Ain't gonna happen.
Other sites tried it, and failed because auctions would literally drag on for 
hours with penny bids.

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Gordon Henderson via cctalk]

On Tue, 1 May 2018, Hagstrom, Paul via cctalk wrote:


On May 1, 2018, at 6:06 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk  
wrote:

Personally, I find all of this hilarious.  ebay has been shady for as long

as I have watched it.  I gave up seriously bidding on "auctions" years ago.

Seems every time I bid and ended out the top bidder it would stay that

way till the auction ended and then suddenly someone beat me by a

dollar.


That's just the way eBay works.  You'll win anyway if your bid is higher 
than the other person's snipe.  eBay auto-bids only whatever it takes to 
beat you, so one increment higher.  You'll notice that if you bid $1000 
on something with a $10 opening bid, eBay displays this as a bid of $10, 
and the time runs out with no other bids, you pay $10.  And if someone 
else bids $20, they lose to your new automatically placed bid of $21.


I don't think there's any advantage to not sniping, since bidding calls 
attention to a thing and does encourage people to bid it up even if your 
top snipe bid would beat them.  But this is just basically how the eBay 
game is played.  I used to snipe by hand, now I usually let a bot do it. 
It bids in the last couple of seconds, so it can look just like what you 
describe.  Sniping wouldn't work if auctions didn't have a hard end 
time, but since they do, that's how it works and they state it all quite 
clearly.  Maybe sometime something shady happens though I've yet to see 
any convincing evidence of it myself (only people claiming it happens 
all the time, all the time), but sniping is not itself shady.


This.

I use a program called esniper - sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, but 
when I lose thats OK, because the item sold for more than I was willing to 
pay.


Recently however I was unable to use esniper (ebay changed something that 
broke it) so put in my max. bid the old fashioned way. I was winning for 
a day or so.


Then something very odd happened: very close to the end of the auction a 
brand new bidder came in and bid 100x the going rate - that immediately 
maxed out my bid - however the seller more or less immediately cancelled 
their bid. They waited 10 minutes then did it again, and again the seller 
cancelled their bid. My guess is that they wanted to see if I'd upped my 
bid. Then a sniper came in and bid more than me at the last minute. I did 
feel cheated there though and will never bid on items from that seller 
again because I felt they somehow had a hand in this bidding but I can't 
prove it, but then again, it's a sellers market and ebay don't care 
because they get money from the sale anyway.


Due to the speed the bid was cancelled I'm more or less convinced it was 
the seller doing this and not the winning bidder, however it did let the 
winner see my max. bid so may have influenced them. Who knows.


So snipe, "by hand" or with a program and if everyone does it, then it 
becomes the same as blind auction then it becomes fair again.


Until the seller withdraws the auction 5 minutes before the end because 
"the listing was incorrect", and re-lists it, trying to get more.


-Gordon

Re: (OT) Re: Is This A Shill?

[Mark J. Blair via cctalk]

On May 2, 2018, at 09:08, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Although eBay in the past has tried to kill off sniping because it
> reduces the number of visits an individual might pay to their site, I
> think they've given up with trying to kill the sniping system.

If eBay really wanted to kill sniping and maximize winning bids, I think they 
could simply change the format from fixed ending time to automatically 
extending the auction period N minutes past the last bid. There would still be 
some benefit to a bidder for bidding late and hoping nobody notices, but there 
would always be a window of up to N minutes for other bidders to decide to 
increase their losing bid. It would end up as a a hybrid of proxy bid + live 
auction.

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: (OT) Re: Is This A Shill?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 05/02/2018 08:42 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:

> Yes. It drives more traffic to the site. It's really gamification of the
> process, which sucks for the bidders (they bid more than they should). In
> the ideal world, you set a price you're willing to pay, pay a trusted third
> party to place that bid in the closing minutes of an auction. It limits the
> amount of information that you give to ebay and/or the seller. The only
> time there's an issue is if there's another bidder whose top bit is exactly
> the same as yours and they bid first. It's a pretty small benefit from
> bidding first vs the tendency for others to bid if they see your bid
> early Last second bids also limit the window in which someone else can
> game your vote, and wondering if someone is shilling you or not...

As much as I've heard against the eBay system, there were many worse.

Consider that if all bidders (and this seems to be true on certain eBay
areas) snipe, it's little different from a standard sealed-bid auction.
You bid your maximum and go away.

Although eBay in the past has tried to kill off sniping because it
reduces the number of visits an individual might pay to their site, I
think they've given up with trying to kill the sniping system.

Yahoo! auctions were terrible--absolutely rife with outright shilling.
Probably one of the reasons that they no longer exist.

OnSale was my favorite site for computer gear, but it didn't survive the
eBay onslaught.

For musical gear, one of the lesser-known sites was DigiBid (I still
have a t-shirt from them).  Because it didn't see much traffic, you
could get some very decent deals on used items.

Ubid and RedTag are still around, mostly offering marked-down overstock.
 I haven't bought anything from them in years.

--Chuck

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Cory Heisterkamp via cctalk]

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 10:22 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 05/02/2018 08:06 AM, Eric Christopherson via cctalk wrote:
>
> > When you say you snipe with a bot, do you mean you use eBay's highest-bid
> > functionality to do it? Or do you use third-party software?
> >
> > I've never been clear on how the built-in highest-bid functionality
> works.
> > I often see things where the same person has several consecutive bids,
> > which doesn't make any sense to me in the absence of other people's bids
> in
> > between them.
>
> When you submit a bit do eBay using the traditional method, your bid is
> really a proxy bid--it's increased by specified increments until it's
> outbid by another bidder.   If you prevail, you win by the minimum
> winning proxy bid.
>
> For example, I was looking for a cheap HDMI cable.   There were a few
> available for a starting bid of $0.50.   I submitted a bit for $1.00 and
> won with a final price of $0.69.
>
> Sniping simply reduced the amount of time that a competing bidder has to
> submit a bid when he discovers that he's being outbid.  There's nothing
> unethical about it--auctions end at a specified time and you get your
> bid in at the last possible moment.
>
> There's software for this, but since I'm an original member of the
> eSnipe service, I use them and haven't paid them a fee for years, since
> bids under a certain amount aren't assessed for a commission.   Later
> subscribers don't have the same deal, I believe.
>
> When I'm interested in something small, I'll submit a snipe bid for what
> I'm willing to pay and then forget about it.  If I win, great, if not,
> no bother.
>
> One thing that many eBay subscribers overlook is the "Make offer"
> feature of some auctions.  In my opinion, that's where the real gold can
> be.  If the BIN price looks too high and you really want an item, make
> an offer.  You never know--the seller just may be want to be rid of the
> thing and will take any offer.
>
>
> FWIW,
> Chuck
>
>
Chuck makes a good point about the Make-Offer feature, and it should be
noted that sellers have this option available to them within the eBay
messenger system even if the button isn't present in the auction, so if you
have your eye on something and feel the price is too high (or your search
of completed auctions shows the item has been relisted several times with
no takers), there's no harm in sending the seller a message with a dollar
amount in mind. -C

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 5/2/18 8:22 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

> One thing that many eBay subscribers overlook is the "Make offer"
> feature of some auctions.  In my opinion, that's where the real gold can
> be.

Yup, in both directions.

People seem completely clueless about what a reasonable offer is, on both sides.

The cheapest listings are BIN, and are very efficient at getting rid of things.

To put it bluntly, I list high and expect reasonable
offers, which rarely happen.

Sometimes I guess low on the BIN price. If there are an insane number of views
and no one bites, I RAISE the price. Eventually, someone buys it.

If something isn't moving, I kill the listing, lower the price, and relist.
There are no cost to do this.

I see a few people abuse this, relisting every couple of days to keep their junk
in the new listings.

In my opinion, eBay's fixed-period auctions are a waste of time.

Re: (OT) Re: Is This A Shill?

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 9:34 AM, Tapley, Mark via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > On May 2, 2018, at 10:22 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 05/02/2018 08:06 AM, Eric Christopherson via cctalk wrote:
> >
> >> When you say you snipe with a bot, do you mean you use eBay's
> highest-bid
> >> functionality to do it? Or do you use third-party software?
> >>
> >> I've never been clear on how the built-in highest-bid functionality
> works.
> >> I often see things where the same person has several consecutive bids,
> >> which doesn't make any sense to me in the absence of other people's
> bids in
> >> between them.
> >
> > When you submit a bit do eBay using the traditional method, your bid is
> > really a proxy bid--it's increased by specified increments until it's
> > outbid by another bidder.   If you prevail, you win by the minimum
> > winning proxy bid.
> ….
>
> If the successive bids are at a constant ratio (is it still 5%?) that is
> eBay making public higher and higher portions of the not-to-exceed (but
> still private) value that person originally entered.
>
> The other possibility is that the original bidder, on being outbid, lets
> their competitive instincts get the better of them and enters a higher
> not-to-exceed bid … and then a higher one …
>
> if the successive bids have a minute or two between them, or a
> non-constant ratio, that is likely what is happening, and it’s a *great*
> reason shills exist in the first place. I think the original intent of the
> eBay system, and my recommendation, is that folks dispassionately, calmly,
> decide what their true ceiling is, enter that value the first time, and
> then walk away. eBay doesn’t promote that behavior now, though. The “you’ve
> been outbid! But there’s still a chance!” email they send seems pretty
> calculated to stampede you into competitive behavior. I suspect that leads
> to regrets.
>

Yes. It drives more traffic to the site. It's really gamification of the
process, which sucks for the bidders (they bid more than they should). In
the ideal world, you set a price you're willing to pay, pay a trusted third
party to place that bid in the closing minutes of an auction. It limits the
amount of information that you give to ebay and/or the seller. The only
time there's an issue is if there's another bidder whose top bit is exactly
the same as yours and they bid first. It's a pretty small benefit from
bidding first vs the tendency for others to bid if they see your bid
early Last second bids also limit the window in which someone else can
game your vote, and wondering if someone is shilling you or not...

Warner

(OT) Re: Is This A Shill?

[Tapley, Mark via cctalk]

> On May 2, 2018, at 10:22 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 05/02/2018 08:06 AM, Eric Christopherson via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> When you say you snipe with a bot, do you mean you use eBay's highest-bid
>> functionality to do it? Or do you use third-party software?
>> 
>> I've never been clear on how the built-in highest-bid functionality works.
>> I often see things where the same person has several consecutive bids,
>> which doesn't make any sense to me in the absence of other people's bids in
>> between them.
> 
> When you submit a bit do eBay using the traditional method, your bid is
> really a proxy bid--it's increased by specified increments until it's
> outbid by another bidder.   If you prevail, you win by the minimum
> winning proxy bid.
….

If the successive bids are at a constant ratio (is it still 5%?) that is eBay 
making public higher and higher portions of the not-to-exceed (but still 
private) value that person originally entered. 

The other possibility is that the original bidder, on being outbid, lets their 
competitive instincts get the better of them and enters a higher not-to-exceed 
bid … and then a higher one …

if the successive bids have a minute or two between them, or a non-constant 
ratio, that is likely what is happening, and it’s a *great* reason shills exist 
in the first place. I think the original intent of the eBay system, and my 
recommendation, is that folks dispassionately, calmly, decide what their true 
ceiling is, enter that value the first time, and then walk away. eBay doesn’t 
promote that behavior now, though. The “you’ve been outbid! But there’s still a 
chance!” email they send seems pretty calculated to stampede you into 
competitive behavior. I suspect that leads to regrets.

- Mark

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 05/02/2018 08:06 AM, Eric Christopherson via cctalk wrote:

> When you say you snipe with a bot, do you mean you use eBay's highest-bid
> functionality to do it? Or do you use third-party software?
> 
> I've never been clear on how the built-in highest-bid functionality works.
> I often see things where the same person has several consecutive bids,
> which doesn't make any sense to me in the absence of other people's bids in
> between them.

When you submit a bit do eBay using the traditional method, your bid is
really a proxy bid--it's increased by specified increments until it's
outbid by another bidder.   If you prevail, you win by the minimum
winning proxy bid.

For example, I was looking for a cheap HDMI cable.   There were a few
available for a starting bid of $0.50.   I submitted a bit for $1.00 and
won with a final price of $0.69.

Sniping simply reduced the amount of time that a competing bidder has to
submit a bid when he discovers that he's being outbid.  There's nothing
unethical about it--auctions end at a specified time and you get your
bid in at the last possible moment.

There's software for this, but since I'm an original member of the
eSnipe service, I use them and haven't paid them a fee for years, since
bids under a certain amount aren't assessed for a commission.   Later
subscribers don't have the same deal, I believe.

When I'm interested in something small, I'll submit a snipe bid for what
I'm willing to pay and then forget about it.  If I win, great, if not,
no bother.

One thing that many eBay subscribers overlook is the "Make offer"
feature of some auctions.  In my opinion, that's where the real gold can
be.  If the BIN price looks too high and you really want an item, make
an offer.  You never know--the seller just may be want to be rid of the
thing and will take any offer.


FWIW,
Chuck

Re: Is This A Shill?

[Eric Christopherson via cctalk]

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Hagstrom, Paul via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> > On May 1, 2018, at 6:06 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Personally, I find all of this hilarious.  ebay has been shady for as
> long
> >
> > as I have watched it.  I gave up seriously bidding on "auctions" years
> ago.
> >
> > Seems every time I bid and ended out the top bidder it would stay that
> >
> > way till the auction ended and then suddenly someone beat me by a
> >
> > dollar.
>
> That's just the way eBay works.  You'll win anyway if your bid is higher
> than the other person's snipe.  eBay auto-bids only whatever it takes to
> beat you, so one increment higher.  You'll notice that if you bid $1000 on
> something with a $10 opening bid, eBay displays this as a bid of $10, and
> the time runs out with no other bids, you pay $10.  And if someone else
> bids $20, they lose to your new automatically placed bid of $21.
>
> I don't think there's any advantage to not sniping, since bidding calls
> attention to a thing and does encourage people to bid it up even if your
> top snipe bid would beat them.  But this is just basically how the eBay
> game is played.  I used to snipe by hand, now I usually let a bot do it.
> It bids in the last couple of seconds, so it can look just like what you
> describe.  Sniping wouldn't work if auctions didn't have a hard end time,
> but since they do, that's how it works and they state it all quite
> clearly.  Maybe sometime something shady happens though I've yet to see any
> convincing evidence of it myself (only people claiming it happens all the
> time, all the time), but sniping is not itself shady.
>
>  -Paul
>

When you say you snipe with a bot, do you mean you use eBay's highest-bid
functionality to do it? Or do you use third-party software?

I've never been clear on how the built-in highest-bid functionality works.
I often see things where the same person has several consecutive bids,
which doesn't make any sense to me in the absence of other people's bids in
between them.

-- 
Eric Christopherson