Re: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 05/22/2018 10:46 PM, Lars Brinkhoff via cctech wrote:

> This is with a microEclipse CPU, right?
> 
> I'm surprised the Nova/Eclipse architecture doesn't get more love.
> It seems quite pleasant.
> 

As I recall--and please correct me--DG was extremely hostile to the
notion of third parties incorporating the MicroNova in any of their
products.

The same situation applied to the Fairchild 9440 MicroFlame, which was
essentially a clone of the MicroNova architecture.  I recall that
Fairchild didn't want to talk to you (I tried) if you weren't in defense
or aerospace or the like.

The basic idea of the 4x16 bit register 16-bit architecture was copied
to some extent by National Semi in their multichip IMP-16 and
single-chip PACE and 9440, but it was mostly in the "spirit of a
Nova"--performance wasn't all that great in comparison to the current 8
bit MPUs.

Weren't the MCBA business applications originally written in Nova BASIC?

--Chuck

Re: Original CAD code in the wild?

[Paul McJones via cctalk]

Randy,

Although there are people interested in collecting historic software 
(especially source code), I don’t know of a central place to discuss it. I’ve 
collected the original IBM 704 Fortran/Fortran II compiler, the original IBM 
709x Lisp II interpreter, and various other things (see 
http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects). As you build up your collection 
of CAD-related source code, I would encourage you to offer copies to the 
Computer History Museum (http://www.computerhistory.org/artifactdonation/) for 
long-term preservation.


Paul McJones
http://www.mcjones.org/dustydecks/

On May 21, 2018, Randy Dawson  wrote:

> For a while I have collected bits of legacy CAD, most recently Martin 
> Hepperle sent me what I believe is the last version of Hank Christianson's 
> MOVIE.BYU, a FORTRAN based 3D modeling and animation system.
> I also have experimented with the original Berkley SPICE, also written in 
> FORTRAN.
> ...
> My question is, did any of the source code for these systems, Applicon, 
> Auto-Trol, Calma, ComputerVision, thousands of lines of primarily FORTRAN 
> ever make it out, where we could read and study this original body of 
> mathematical geometry done on computers?
> 
> I know we are primarily a hardware group here, but where is the interest in 
> the software discussed?
> 
> Randy

Re: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd?

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Wed, 23 May 2018 at 17:47, Chuck Guzis via cctech 
wrote:

> The same situation applied to the Fairchild 9440 MicroFlame, which was
> essentially a clone of the MicroNova architecture.

This led me to some fascinating stuff. Thanks!

The CPU:

http://www.cpushack.com/2017/11/14/cpu-of-the-day-fairchild-f9445-the-microflame-flames-out/

The customer, and their role in saving Pioneer 10, helping NASA for free:

http://www.strobedata.com/home/pioneer10.html

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

VCF East Photo Thread

[Jason T via cctalk]

Many are appearing on the VCFed mailing list already.  Here are mine,
with separate sets for the non-computer (but still interesting) stuff:

http://silent700.blogspot.com/2018/05/vcf-east-2018.html

I had a good time and recommend the show to all who can make it out there.

-j

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 9:59 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > I talked with my friend who worked at Solbourne longer than I did.
>
> Oooh. Dieter, maybe?


Yes.

> This isn't quite right. The connectors are different, but the signalling
> is
> > the same. You need a custom adapter, though, so you get the right signals
> > on the right pins. Solbourne specifically made their keyboards
> incompatible
> > with Suns at the connector level to force people to buy keyboards from
> > Solbourne, but used the same basic parts as Sun keyboards to save on
> > development costs. While the big battleship keyboards have extra keys,
> the
> > scan codes for the basic keys are the same (though he cautioned me that
> was
> > only his memory, but based on how fanatical they were about being Sun
> > compatible). After he told me that, I recalled that I found an odd cable
> a
> > few years ago in my big box of cables that could have been such an
> adapter,
> > though I don't have it any more. He suggested using the SE guide that was
> > on bitkeepers to make an adapter.
>
> Well, that's good to know. I'll update that section if you can get the
> name as the source (since most of the available documentation says
> different).
>

Right. I'm unsure. He's a solid enough for me to try it, but without
confirmation, I'm not sure changing the docs is a wise idea.

Warner

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

> I talked with my friend who worked at Solbourne longer than I did.

Oooh. Dieter, maybe?

> This isn't quite right. The connectors are different, but the signalling is
> the same. You need a custom adapter, though, so you get the right signals
> on the right pins. Solbourne specifically made their keyboards incompatible
> with Suns at the connector level to force people to buy keyboards from
> Solbourne, but used the same basic parts as Sun keyboards to save on
> development costs. While the big battleship keyboards have extra keys, the
> scan codes for the basic keys are the same (though he cautioned me that was
> only his memory, but based on how fanatical they were about being Sun
> compatible). After he told me that, I recalled that I found an odd cable a
> few years ago in my big box of cables that could have been such an adapter,
> though I don't have it any more. He suggested using the SE guide that was
> on bitkeepers to make an adapter.

Well, that's good to know. I'll update that section if you can get the
name as the source (since most of the available documentation says
different).

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- .signature violation (core dumped) -

Re: OT- Thunderbird ugliness, Was: Eudora email client source code released

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 05/23/2018 06:53 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:

> I /think/ I knew that.  But I obviously forgot it.

  pop.googlemail.com  port 995.


> Yep, Gmail supports Google Sync.
> 
> Link - What is Google Sync?
>  - https://support.google.com/a/answer/135937?hl=en

I'd prefer to keep my own messages and just use gmail as a server.

> I don't think I've used Courier myself.  

Courser used to be called Calypso.  One of the older (1996) Windows
clients.  Got passed alsong until it was discontinued by its current
owner, Rose City Software around 2009.   There's still a Yahoo community
for it.  But it's 32-bit Windows only, AFAIK; Calypso was 16-bit.  At
one point, RC released source, but I don't know if any copies were
preserved.

It was useful back in the day because it allowed multiple accounts, like
most email clients do today.

But it's old stuff; I wouldn't bother.

Pegasus/Mercury is still around: http://www.pmail.com/, but I don't know
much about the current (2017) release.  I used it mostly because it
could import Calypso/Courier mailboxes directly.  From Pegasus to
Thunderbird was a very easy move.

When I moved my workload from Windows to Linux, I just brought along the
Windows mail profile content and I was up and running in minutes.

It's strange; although I still have some archives, I don't recall what I
used for an email reader when I was doing email with UUCP.  I do recall
that it was awkward--it required a separate utility to handle
MIME-encoded content.  Folks hadn't discovered email with HTML content
yet--those were simpler days.

--Chuck

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 9:58 AM, Alan Perry  wrote:

>
> You are correct. I misremembered this section from
> https://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/solace/
>
> Why don't Sun keyboards work? What about mice? None of the Sun keyboards
> will work with the Solbourne and vice versa. At best they won't work; at
> worst you might short something, depending on the model. In addition to
> different signaling, the Solbourne keyboards have different scan codes and
> earlier ones have more keys as well.
>
> The Sun-3 optical mouse (with the RJ-11 plug) can connect to the "Cherry"
> Solbourne 102691 keyboard and will work, but needs adjustment
>  due
> to the lower resolution.
>
>
I talked with my friend who worked at Solbourne longer than I did.

This isn't quite right. The connectors are different, but the signalling is
the same. You need a custom adapter, though, so you get the right signals
on the right pins. Solbourne specifically made their keyboards incompatible
with Suns at the connector level to force people to buy keyboards from
Solbourne, but used the same basic parts as Sun keyboards to save on
development costs. While the big battleship keyboards have extra keys, the
scan codes for the basic keys are the same (though he cautioned me that was
only his memory, but based on how fanatical they were about being Sun
compatible). After he told me that, I recalled that I found an odd cable a
few years ago in my big box of cables that could have been such an adapter,
though I don't have it any more. He suggested using the SE guide that was
on bitkeepers to make an adapter.

I went looking for special keyboard maps for the Solbourne, and all I found
was Tom LaStrange's name in twm from the updates he did while working at
Solbroune, so maybe my friend is right. I'd have expected to find that they
would have been in X11R4 or X11R5, but no dice. The CG30 card was a simple
clone of sun's cg3 dumb frame buffer. The graphics card had to be 100% code
compatible with Sun, so it would be odd to have different. I also couldn't
find anything in my .x* files, even though I had OI specific resources I
deleted in 2010...

He confirmed the mouse thing was 100% correct. He used that setup for
several years. Though I was incorrect: he gave all his Solbourne stuff to a
local computer museum that seems to have disappeared...

Warner

Re: OT- Thunderbird ugliness, Was: Eudora email client source code released

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 05/23/2018 11:30 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

Gmail also allows for a POP3 interface.


I /think/ I knew that.  But I obviously forgot it.

I was actually trying to remember if Gmail had something more akin to 
ActiveSync or something else that ran over top of HTTPS that email 
clients could use in lieu of IMAP or POP3.


… searching …

Yep, Gmail supports Google Sync.

Link - What is Google Sync?
 - https://support.google.com/a/answer/135937?hl=en

I was sort of wondering if you were using that, or something else like 
that.  Or if it was IMAP / POP3.


I'd originally used the suggested IMAP interface and then had a 
bit of a net outage.  I discovered that I had no copies of my inbox 
messages--apparently, they resided on Google's servers.   So I went to 
the POP interface, where the message is deleted from the server when I 
receive it.


Yep, IMAP is server based, and great for multiple devices trying to 
access the same mailbox.


The thing that you didn't do was configure your email client to retain a 
local copy of all of your email.  (I proactively did that years ago.)


Otherwise, for me, it's been a progression of email clients.  elm, 
pine, eudora, Courier, Pegasus and finally Thunderbird, which has worked 
passably well to date.


I don't think I've used Courier myself.  I may have to check it out.  Is 
it just another IMAP / POP3 / SMTP style email client like Eudora & 
Thunderbird?  Or does it have something else to offer?




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: HP 9000-236 (9836CU) video cable.

[Robert via cctalk]

Thanks, chaps.

Tony: That pinout is great, many thanks! It will help me if I have to
build a cable.

I don't suppose that there's a part number on yours? If there are any
for sale the p/n might help me find one.

Rico: If I have any HP-UX it will be on one of several SC80 hard
drives - I have no removable media. I don't know about the 200 series
- my 9816 has no keyboard and I haven't even begun to think about
solving that problem.

Robert

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Tony Duell  wrote:
> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Robert via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> My latest score is an HP 9836CU (so, color with a 68010 CPU and HP-UX
>> support) with a 98625A disk interface. I got the matching monitor, but
>> I didn't get the video cable.
>>
>> Googling turns up that it's a very proprietary interface, but I could
>> find nothing about the cable. It's a 15 pin D-sub at each end and I'm
>> hoping that it's just straight through, but have been unable to verify
>> that.
>>
>> Does anybody know? Or Is there anybody that has a 9836C or CU and
>> would be willing to examine the video cable, please?
>
> The original cable has moulded connectors so I can't examine the
> internal wiring.
>
> It _is_ straight-through electrically, but there is a catch. There are 3
> coaxial cables (and some plain wires) in there. The coaxial cables,
> I guess 75 ohm characteristic impedance, carry the video signals.
> They seem to be wired :
>
> Red : centre to 12, shield to 13
> Green : centre to 10, shield to 2
> Blue : centre to 9, shield to 1.
>
> The other pins are, as far as I know, plain wires. There is probably
> an overall shield, grounded to pin 8
>
> The pinout, AFAIK, is :
> 1 : Blue shield
> 2 : Green shield
> 3 : ground
> 4 : ground
> 5: N/C
> 6 : ground
> 7 : +12V (computer to monitor, to cause the latter to turn on)
> 8 : ground (overall shield?)
>
> 9 : Blue
> 10 : Green
> 11 : HSync
> 12 : Red
> 13 : Red shield
> 14 : VBlank
> 15 : VSync
>
> Syncs and blanking are TTL levels, the video signal are current
> (not voltage) levels, sourced by the monitor and sunk by the
> computer.
>
> -tony

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Wed, May 23, 2018, 11:40 AM Cameron Kaiser via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > Does the S4100 support a serial console?
>
> Yes, it should. I forget how to set this up because mine weren't headless,
> but they do.


The boot roms are basically from the same sources... but I think that you
may need a monitor and keyboard to set that up...

Warner

>
>

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

> Does the S4100 support a serial console?

Yes, it should. I forget how to set this up because mine weren't headless,
but they do.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- It's tradition, that makes it okay. -- Weird Al, "Weasel Stomping Day" -

Re: OT- Thunderbird ugliness, Was: Eudora email client source code released

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 05/23/2018 08:49 AM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:

> How are you interfacing with Gmail?  IMAP or something else.  —  I think
> Thunderbird supports interfacing with Gmail in another protocol.  I may
> be wrong.

Gmail also allows for a POP3 interface.  I'd originally used the
suggested IMAP interface and then had a bit of a net outage.  I
discovered that I had no copies of my inbox messages--apparently, they
resided on Google's servers.   So I went to the POP interface, where the
message is deleted from the server when I receive it.

Otherwise, for me, it's been a progression of email clients.  elm, pine,
eudora, Courier, Pegasus and finally Thunderbird, which has worked
passably well to date.

--Chuck

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Rico Pajarola via cctalk]

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> There are some that a recycler has been trying to sell on eBay. However,
> they need a special mouse and keyboard and that seller has none.
>

I bought one from said recycler a while ago, have been looking for a
suitable keyboard/mouse ever since.

It's a very nice machine, and interesting in that it is not just a carbon
copy of a Sun machine like most other clones.



>
> alan
>
> > On May 23, 2018, at 2:18 AM, Kevin Bowling via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Looks neat, anyone have one of these things they'd sell me?  I'm in
> > the US Southwest, can ship or travel a bit.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kevin
>
>

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 5/23/18 8:54 AM, Warner Losh wrote:
> 
> 
>  Somewhere I have the field service manual from when I worked there...
> 
> Warner
> 

If it's different from what I have on bitsavers, i'd like to scan it.

Re: OT- Thunderbird ugliness, Was: Eudora email client source code released

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Wed, 23 May 2018 at 16:28, JP Hindin via cctalk 
wrote:

> Apologies to hijack this one (I can't tell you how impressed I am with
> both the CHM's efforts and Qualcomm's release, I find these things really
> exciting for our hobby) - but I've been having real troubles with TBird in
> the last few years and my obstinacy has been holding me back.

Ditto.

> I run Thunderbird on a 2016 MacBoook Pro (Sierra 10.12.6, 2.6GHz i7, 16GB
> RAM, internal SSD) where I'm pulling via IMAP from Google (their
> professional company service thingy), but maintain a local 24GB cache of
> eMail.

> It's slower than molasses in january. Moving eMail around between
> 'folders' often has it sit and spin the beachball for 2-3 seconds - dozens
> of times a day. And I just can't work out why - I mean, yes, it's a lot of
> ruddy eMail, but it's a monster of a laptop and it should be
> pulling/moving on the SSD when it's getting stuck before it's even tried
> to send the move message to google.

> I _detest_ the gmail interface, I'd really prefer to continue using a
> client like this - but TBird just isn't getting any better.

I actually quite like the Gmail interface, and I've been using it for 14Y
now, but I'd like a fast usable local client. I travel a lot, and I don't
always have Internet access on the road. A proper responsive local email
client, where I could read, comment, and post it all when I get to my
destination, would be great.

T'bird is no longer it, alas. It was for years, and I spent time and effort
moving my email archive 1991-2004 to it. But as you say, it's sluglike in
the extreme with Gmail.

> What am I missing here? Are there better options? Is Thunderbird just not
> designed for large mail sets for people who actually work for a living?

I do wonder myself.

I now use Claws at work. It's quicker. I don't like it, but it does the job.

> Responses should probably be sent to me directly. And my thanks in advance
> for your opinions, my curmudgeonly behaviour is really eating up my time
> and I'm hoping there's a reasonable fix beyond "Suck it up and use gmail".

I've left the CC on.

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: OT- Thunderbird ugliness, Was: Eudora email client source code released

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 05/23/2018 09:28 AM, JP Hindin via cctalk wrote:



On Tue, 22 May 2018, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
so I use Thunderbird on a Linux platform. It is awfully 
slow. Sometimes it takes 5 minutes to download 3 messages 
when I start it up.


At home I use Thunderbird with standard Linux smtp and 
pop servers and it works fine.


Apologies to hijack this one (I can't tell you how 
impressed I am with both the CHM's efforts and Qualcomm's 
release, I find these things really exciting for our 
hobby) - but I've been having real troubles with TBird in 
the last few years and my obstinacy has been holding me back.


I run Thunderbird on a 2016 MacBoook Pro (Sierra 10.12.6, 
2.6GHz i7, 16GB RAM, internal SSD) where I'm pulling via 
IMAP from Google (their professional company service 
thingy), but maintain a local 24GB cache of eMail.


It's slower than molasses in january. Moving eMail around 
between 'folders' often has it sit and spin the beachball 
for 2-3 seconds - dozens of times a day. And I just can't 
work out why - I mean, yes, it's a lot of ruddy eMail, but 
it's a monster of a laptop and it should be pulling/moving 
on the SSD when it's getting stuck before it's even tried 
to send the move message to google.


I _detest_ the gmail interface, I'd really prefer to 
continue using a client like this - but TBird just isn't 
getting any better.


What am I missing here? Are there better options? Is 
Thunderbird just not designed for large mail sets for 
people who actually work for a living?


You should keep the Inbox down to a few hundred messages at 
the most.  I create a bunch of Inbox_2017 type folders and 
move older Inbox items to it every couple months.  All 
sorting is done in memory, and if any folder gets too big, 
it starts to thrash.  I do the same for Sent and Local folders.
Also, make sure you clear out your Junk and Trash folders 
every couple weeks.  There is an "extension" called "Extra 
Folder Columns" that adds total messages and a megabytes 
column to each folder, so you can see when it needs clearing 
out.  Not sure if this is available for your version, but I 
find it very useful.
I keep all (retained) email locally, I don't trust any 
outside service.  So, I can see old messages even without 
the net.  I have mail going back to 1997.


I DO have an SSD, that really helps.  The only thing I find 
slow is when I go to delete 4000+ emails from the Trash 
folder.  That can take a minute, but I only do it every 
week, or less often.


When I open Thunderbird and download 300+ emails at a 
session, it takes about 15 seconds to run all the message 
filter rules on them. I think that is GREAT, let the 
computer do work so I don't HAVE to.
And, once the automatic filtering is trained, it works 
AMAZINGLY well at culling all the spam and almost NEVER puts 
a good message in the Trash or Junk folder.  That, right 
THERE is why I use Thunderbird!
I do have about a dozen hand-written filters for stuff that 
repeatedly gets through the automatic filtering.


As for the slowness at work with Office 365, that is clearly 
a Microsoft issue, everybody sees the same awful 
performance, no matter what interface they use to access it.


Jon

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

On 5/23/18 8:54 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:46 AM Al Kossow via cctalk 
wrote:



On 5/23/18 7:51 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:

they need a special mouse and keyboard

You can run them headless, so they aren't completely useless w/o the
keyboard.


You do need a serial port for that. On boot, the boot roms print both
places, though you may need to pull the color graphics card if the defaults
have been changed.

If you buy one, let me know. Somewhere I have the field service manual from
when I worked there...


Would it cover the S4100? I have wanting to get one just for the 
Panasonic SPARC processor.


Does the S4100 support a serial console?

alan

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

You are correct. I misremembered this section from 
https://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/solace/



  Why don't Sun keyboards work? What about mice?

None of the Sun keyboards will work with the Solbourne and vice versa. 
At best they won't work; at worst you might short something, depending 
on the model. In addition to different signaling, the Solbourne 
keyboards have different scan codes and earlier ones have more keys as 
well.


The Sun-3 optical mouse (with the RJ-11 plug) can connect to the 
"Cherry" Solbourne 102691 keyboard and will work, butneeds adjustment 
due 
to the lower resolution.





On 5/23/18 8:46 AM, Warner Losh wrote:
Iorc, the mice are sun compatable,  but that may just be for the IDT 
workstation. I have a recollection that they are also compatable with 
the Series 4, 5 and 5e I/O boards. I know a guy that I used to work 
with there that will know for sure. I'll ask him. He still has a 
series 5e in service...


Warner

On Wed, May 23, 2018, 8:51 AM Alan Perry via cctalk 
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:


There are some that a recycler has been trying to sell on eBay.
However, they need a special mouse and keyboard and that seller
has none.

alan

> On May 23, 2018, at 2:18 AM, Kevin Bowling via cctalk
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
>
> Looks neat, anyone have one of these things they'd sell me?  I'm in
> the US Southwest, can ship or travel a bit.
>
> Regards,
> Kevin

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:46 AM Al Kossow via cctalk 
wrote:

>
>
> On 5/23/18 7:51 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
> > they need a special mouse and keyboard
>
> You can run them headless, so they aren't completely useless w/o the
> keyboard.
>

You do need a serial port for that. On boot, the boot roms print both
places, though you may need to pull the color graphics card if the defaults
have been changed.

If you buy one, let me know. Somewhere I have the field service manual from
when I worked there...

Warner

>

Re: OT- Thunderbird ugliness, Was: Eudora email client source code released

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 05/23/2018 08:28 AM, JP Hindin via cctalk wrote:
Apologies to hijack this one (I can't tell you how impressed I am with 
both the CHM's efforts and Qualcomm's release, I find these things 
really exciting for our hobby) - but I've been having real troubles with 
TBird in the last few years and my obstinacy has been holding me back.


I don't think this was a thread  hijack attempt at all.

You're parroting things I said on Twitter about Eudora's source code 
release and what it might mean for Thunderbird or some of their users.


I run Thunderbird on a 2016 MacBoook Pro (Sierra 10.12.6, 2.6GHz i7, 
16GB RAM, internal SSD) where I'm pulling via IMAP from Google (their 
professional company service thingy), but maintain a local 24GB cache of 
eMail.


I've got about 1/6th of that in IMAP spread across 1,118 folders.

It's slower than molasses in january. Moving eMail around between 
'folders' often has it sit and spin the beachball for 2-3 seconds - 
dozens of times a day. And I just can't work out why - I mean, yes, it's 
a lot of ruddy eMail, but it's a monster of a laptop and it should be 
pulling/moving on the SSD when it's getting stuck before it's even tried 
to send the move message to google.


How are you interfacing with Gmail?  IMAP or something else.  —  I think 
Thunderbird supports interfacing with Gmail in another protocol.  I may 
be wrong.


I _detest_ the gmail interface, I'd really prefer to continue using a 
client like this - but TBird just isn't getting any better.


AGREED!!!

What am I missing here? Are there better options? Is Thunderbird just 
not designed for large mail sets for people who actually work for a living?


I don't know.  I too wonder if there's another option.  Hence why I'm 
hoping that Eudora's source code release & license will help this situation.


Responses should probably be sent to me directly. And my thanks in 
advance for your opinions, my curmudgeonly behaviour is really eating up 
my time and I'm hoping there's a reasonable fix beyond "Suck it up and 
use gmail".


¯\_(ツ)_/¯



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 5/23/18 7:51 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
> they need a special mouse and keyboard

You can run them headless, so they aren't completely useless w/o the keyboard.

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

Iorc, the mice are sun compatable,  but that may just be for the IDT
workstation. I have a recollection that they are also compatable with the
Series 4, 5 and 5e I/O boards. I know a guy that I used to work with there
that will know for sure. I'll ask him. He still has a series 5e in
service...

Warner

On Wed, May 23, 2018, 8:51 AM Alan Perry via cctalk 
wrote:

> There are some that a recycler has been trying to sell on eBay. However,
> they need a special mouse and keyboard and that seller has none.
>
> alan
>
> > On May 23, 2018, at 2:18 AM, Kevin Bowling via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Looks neat, anyone have one of these things they'd sell me?  I'm in
> > the US Southwest, can ship or travel a bit.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kevin
>
>

Re: Original CAD code in the wild?

[John Foust via cctalk]

At 09:31 PM 5/20/2018, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:
>For a while I have collected bits of legacy CAD, most recently 
>Martin Hepperle sent me what I believe is the last version of 
>Hank Christianson's MOVIE.BYU, a FORTRAN based 3D modeling and animation 
>system.

I supported MovieBYU 3D object import/export in my 3D conversion tool, 
InterChange.  Although it didn't have any commercial appeal, it did 
impress the BYU grads at Viewpoint Datalabs.  

I look forward to seeing more emulated and virtual machine recreations
of old software situations.  You should be able to run an old environment
easily on a desktop or even in a web browser.  I think they're educational 
for students of today and tomorrow.

Is that MovieBYU code on the web somewhere?

At 06:37 PM 5/22/2018, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote:
>"The BRL-CAD source code repository is the oldest known public
>version-controlled codebase in the world that's still under active
>development, dating back to 1983-12-16 00:10:31."
>[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRL-CAD ]
>
>I could not verify this claim, because I could not load SourceForge
>page before my patience ran out (thank you, Javascript, I guess).

I remember ordering BRL-CAD source and manuals, perhaps directly
from them in the late 1980s.  It was massive even back then.

- John

Re: WTB: Solbourne computer

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

There are some that a recycler has been trying to sell on eBay. However, they 
need a special mouse and keyboard and that seller has none.

alan 

> On May 23, 2018, at 2:18 AM, Kevin Bowling via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Looks neat, anyone have one of these things they'd sell me?  I'm in
> the US Southwest, can ship or travel a bit.
> 
> Regards,
> Kevin

OT- Thunderbird ugliness, Was: Eudora email client source code released

[JP Hindin via cctalk]

On Tue, 22 May 2018, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
so I use Thunderbird on a Linux platform.  It is awfully slow. Sometimes it 
takes 5 minutes to download 3 messages when I start it up.


At home I use Thunderbird with standard Linux smtp and pop servers and it 
works fine.


Apologies to hijack this one (I can't tell you how impressed I am with 
both the CHM's efforts and Qualcomm's release, I find these things really 
exciting for our hobby) - but I've been having real troubles with TBird in 
the last few years and my obstinacy has been holding me back.


I run Thunderbird on a 2016 MacBoook Pro (Sierra 10.12.6, 2.6GHz i7, 16GB 
RAM, internal SSD) where I'm pulling via IMAP from Google (their 
professional company service thingy), but maintain a local 24GB cache of 
eMail.


It's slower than molasses in january. Moving eMail around between 
'folders' often has it sit and spin the beachball for 2-3 seconds - dozens 
of times a day. And I just can't work out why - I mean, yes, it's a lot of 
ruddy eMail, but it's a monster of a laptop and it should be 
pulling/moving on the SSD when it's getting stuck before it's even tried 
to send the move message to google.


I _detest_ the gmail interface, I'd really prefer to continue using a 
client like this - but TBird just isn't getting any better.


What am I missing here? Are there better options? Is Thunderbird just not 
designed for large mail sets for people who actually work for a living?


Responses should probably be sent to me directly. And my thanks in advance 
for your opinions, my curmudgeonly behaviour is really eating up my time 
and I'm hoping there's a reasonable fix beyond "Suck it up and use gmail".


Cheers!

 - JP

Re: Digital VT420 repair?

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

when you power it on, the keyboard light should activate, the screen should
display the initialization graphic pattern, print wait on the screen and
then beep.

My 420 is a little dimmer than I'd like it to be, I assume there is a fix
for that internally (read the manuals), but if you're not even getting the
beep nor the keyboard light  you have bigger issues than I.

Bill

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 8:35 AM, Waldemar Brodkorb via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> after my Micro PDP11/83 boots up, I like to connect a Digital VT420
> to the console port. This worked approx. 10 years ago. Now when I
> poweron the VT420 I get no message on the screen. The f3 key doesn't
> give me the configuration menu.
>
> Is it broken? Does it have some invalid configuration in NVRAM and
> can be resetted?
> I tried changing brightness and contrast, no change.
> Is it normal that the right LED is always on? See the picture.
> https://debug.openadk.org/pdp11/vt420.jpg
>
> I tried with and without serial connection to another system.
>
> Thanks for any advice,
>  Waldemar
>

Digital VT420 repair?

[Waldemar Brodkorb via cctalk]

Hi, 

 


 
after my Micro PDP11/83 boots up, I like to connect a Digital VT420
to the console port. This worked approx. 10 years ago. Now when I
poweron the VT420 I get no message on the screen. The f3 key doesn't
give me the configuration menu.

Is it broken? Does it have some invalid configuration in NVRAM and
can be resetted?
I tried changing brightness and contrast, no change.
Is it normal that the right LED is always on? See the picture.
https://debug.openadk.org/pdp11/vt420.jpg

I tried with and without serial connection to another system.

Thanks for any advice,
 Waldemar

Re: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd?

[Michael Thompson via cctalk]

It could be the Intel 8086 version. I need to look at the serial/model number 
tags.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2018, at 1:46 AM, Lars Brinkhoff  wrote:
> 
> Michael Thompson wrote:
>> I put a picture of the one at RICM here:
>> http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/data-general-desktop-generation/DG_Desktop_Generation.jpg
>> 
>> Going from left to right: QIC tape drive, dual floppies, disk drive,
>> card expansion, CPU, and power supply. We have the monitor, keyboard,
>> and printer for it too.
> 
> This is with a microEclipse CPU, right?
> 
> I'm surprised the Nova/Eclipse architecture doesn't get more love.
> It seems quite pleasant.

Re: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd?

[Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk]

Michael Thompson wrote:
> I put a picture of the one at RICM here:
> http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/data-general-desktop-generation/DG_Desktop_Generation.jpg
>
> Going from left to right: QIC tape drive, dual floppies, disk drive,
> card expansion, CPU, and power supply. We have the monitor, keyboard,
> and printer for it too.

This is with a microEclipse CPU, right?

I'm surprised the Nova/Eclipse architecture doesn't get more love.
It seems quite pleasant.

Re: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd?

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

OK if you hear of any monitors or keyboards,please let us knowl!

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 Michael Thompson via cctech  
wrote:
It could be the Intel 8086 version. I need to look at the serial/model number 
tags.

Sent from my iPhone

> 

On May 23, 2018, at 1:46 AM, Lars Brinkhoff  wrote:
> 
> Michael Thompson wrote:
>> I put a picture of the one at RICM here:
>> http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/data-general-desktop-generation/DG_Desktop_Generation.jpg
>> 
>> Going from left to right: QIC tape drive, dual floppies, disk drive,
>> card expansion, CPU, and power supply. We have the monitor, keyboard,
>> and printer for it too.
> 
> This is with a microEclipse CPU, right?
> 
> I'm surprised the Nova/Eclipse architecture doesn't get more love.
> It seems quite pleasant.

Re: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? computer?

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

OK always,worth checking! ed#

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 Adrian Graham via cctalk  
wrote:

> 

On 23 May 2018, at 03:05, Ed Sharpe via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Adrian ... That is great to hear! Any chance of a site photo?

Sadly not, because of the nature of the site there’s no pictures allowed.

A


> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> 
> On Tuesday, May 22, 2018 Adrian Graham via cctalk  
> wrote:
> I used to be site engineer at A Well Known British Newspaper printers, they
> have those little DGs controlling part of the press process. This was back
> in 2004, I was down there again last year to fix some old HP servers and
> those little DGs are still going strong.
> 
> -- 
> adrian/witchy
> Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
> t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
> w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk
> 
> On 22 May 2018 at 12:17, Ed Sharpe via cctalk  wrote:
> 
>> how many sections to it? CHM has one too but one less section than
>> ours... Ed# www.smecc.org
>> 
>> In a message dated 5/22/2018 12:34:42 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 18:04:00 -0400
>>> From: Ed Sharpe 
>>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
>>> Subject: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd?
>>> computer?
>>> 
>>> While? in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic? Data
>>> General ...odd? computer?
>>> I do not remember buying it!? ?Ed#
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>> "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/
>> DG10_1-300x227.jpg
>>> "
>>> 
>>> 
>> The RICM has one, but it is not on the WWW site.
>> 
>> Michael Thompson
>> 
> 

-- 
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

WTB: Solbourne computer

[Kevin Bowling via cctalk]

Looks neat, anyone have one of these things they'd sell me?  I'm in
the US Southwest, can ship or travel a bit.

Regards,
Kevin

Re: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd? computer?

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 23 May 2018, at 03:05, Ed Sharpe via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Adrian ...  That is great to hear!   Any chance of a site photo?

Sadly not, because of the nature of the site there’s no pictures allowed.

A


> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> 
> On Tuesday, May 22, 2018 Adrian Graham via cctalk  
> wrote:
> I used to be site engineer at A Well Known British Newspaper printers, they
> have those little DGs controlling part of the press process. This was back
> in 2004, I was down there again last year to fix some old HP servers and
> those little DGs are still going strong.
> 
> -- 
> adrian/witchy
> Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
> t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
> w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk
> 
> On 22 May 2018 at 12:17, Ed Sharpe via cctalk  wrote:
> 
>> how many sections to it? CHM has one too but one less section than
>> ours... Ed# www.smecc.org
>> 
>> In a message dated 5/22/2018 12:34:42 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 18:04:00 -0400
>>> From: Ed Sharpe 
>>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
>>> Subject: I ran across this strange modernistic? Data General ...odd?
>>> computer?
>>> 
>>> While? in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic? Data
>>> General ...odd? computer?
>>> I do not remember buying it!? ?Ed#
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>> "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/
>> DG10_1-300x227.jpg
>>> "
>>> 
>>> 
>> The RICM has one, but it is not on the WWW site.
>> 
>> Michael Thompson
>> 
> 

-- 
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk