Object-oriented OS [was: Re: Microsoft-Paul Allen]

[Tomasz Rola via cctalk]

Ok guys, just to make things clearer, here are two pages from wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_operating_system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming

What I was thinking back at the time of premiere: classes, objects
derived from the classes, user able to make his own object from
system-provided class or define class of his own, or define his own
class and inherit from other class, including system-provided one.

Examples:

  - an object pretends to be a disk object, but is double-disk
partition or zip file
  - an object pretends to be file object but in fact it is a
composition of few different files, mapped into virtual file-like
object (so as to avoid costly copying)
  - an object says it is a printer but is a proxy, connected via
serial-line object to another such serial-line object on remote
computer where the real printer sits (connected via parallel, as
usually)
  - object with execution thread, aka active object (in 199x
nomenclature -> aka process), can be serialized and migrated to
another computer without big fuss either via system provided
migration service or via (really easy to write in such setup)
user's own
  - same active object, serialized and stored to file because I gotta
go home and have to turn computer off, so I can resurrect it next
morning

Plus, some kind of system programming language - I had no idea what
Smalltalk was and I still have no idea but I might have swallowed
that.

I think it was possible to have this. But, not from MS. And as time
shows, not from anybody.

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 07:34:32PM -0700, Chris Hanson wrote:
 
> On Oct 20, 2018, at 10:31 AM, Tomasz Rola via cctalk
>  wrote:
> >
>  
> > Oooh. My personal recollection about w95 is that there was a lot
> > of touting before the premiere day, how advanced it was because
> > "object oriented operating system”.
[...]
> A lot of Windows 95 is implemented using COM, which is probably
> where the description of it as “object-oriented” comes from.

Well, I am not going to bet my money on this. What you wrote might be
true but I would like something, say a blog or article, in which
author shows how I can count those COM objects.

I tried to verify your statement and the earliest Windows which could
be claimed to be built from many COMs was Windows 8. But the truth is,
I have departed from Win-Win land long ago, and only use Windows when
someone wants me to unscrew a Windows laptop.

> And while I have never been a Windows user, to denigrate it as some
> sort of non-achievement given the constraints under which it was
> developed, both in terms of target systems and backwards
> compatibility, is myopic at best.

C'mon, we are not talking about windows on 8-bit computer. I think
they had loads of cash even back then and could pick from heaps of
CVs. According to ReactOS wikipage:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactos

   On 1 May 2012 a 30,000 euro funding campaign was started to finance
   additional development projects.[43][44] On the end of the year
   approximately 50% of the funding goal was achieved and it was
   decided to continue the funding campaign without deadlines.

   (...) The development progress is influenced by the size of the
   development team and the level of experience among them. As an
   estimate of the effort required to implement Windows 7, Microsoft
   employed 1,000 or so developers, organized into 25 teams, with each
   team averaging 40 developers.[85] As of 2 September 2011, in the
   ReactOS entry in Ohloh, the page followed through the "Very large,
   active development team" link lists 33 developers who have
   contributed over a 12-month period and a cumulative total of 104
   present and former users who have contributed code to the project
   via Subversion since its inception.[86] In his presentation at
   Hackmeeting 2009 in Milan, ReactOS developer Michele C. noted that
   most of the developers learn about Windows architecture while
   working on ReactOS and have no prior knowledge.

With this funding and so few people those noble folks achieved quite a
lot. Do you think MS limitations were bigger?
 
>   -- Chris
>  

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 04:14:34PM +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 at 19:31, Tomasz Rola via cctalk
>  wrote:
> 
> > Oooh. [...] touting [...] "object oriented operating system" [...]
> > objection [...] scam [...]
> 
> I think the explanation for that is fairly clearly there in the history.
> 
> NT 3.1 came soon after Windows 3.
> 
> [... Chicago and Cairo ... multiplied ...]

Very true, but if someone promises and does not deliver, who is he?

And nobody makes a small print saying "this is just marketing
material, so do not count on it". If I cannot count on it, why waste
my time?

> > Nowadays, I consider W95 as very interesting subject of study - a
> > technical product of non-technical genius(es) (ok, if there were tech
> 

Re: Teletype cheap

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 3:38 AM steve shumaker via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> OK, got it.  Will be my first one. Now, how does one transport the
> thing?   Does it easily come off the pedestal?   Can it be laid on it's
> back?  Anything need to be secured before it gets moved?

It does come off the stand easily. Do not lay it on its back without
either removing or securing the typing unit (main mechanical chassis).

To expand on that

To get it off the stand, first take the backplate off the stand (I think it's
a couple of obvious screws). There may be a power supply for the reader
inside the stand, there may be other electronics (unlikely). Unplug the
cables.IIRC the reader power supply just unclips.

There are 4 screws going up through the top flanges of the stand into the
base pan of the machine. Get a couple of (strong) friends to steady the machine
itself and take the screws out. Then just lift it off the stand. It
_will_ tip forwards
if not steadied, hence needing the friends.

The typing unit is only resting on rubber vibration isolators, it is not fixed
down. There is a hole on the bottom of the machine where you can fit
a screw (it was some kind of self-tapping thing) into the cast metal
base of the typing unit to anchor it. But I find it easier to remove the
typng unit.

To do that, take off the top cover : Pull off the knob on the front and the
platten knob. Slide the front nameplate thing down to remove it. Take
out the screws thus exposed, the thumbscrews on the back. There may
be a screw at the rear left corner of the reader cover (on the side) but
it is almost always missing. Lift off the cover.

Unplug the connectors at the back of the call control unit (electronics
chassis) and disconnect the wires from the little leaf swtich at the rear
right of the typng unit.

Now look down behind the rear right corner of the keyboard. There's
a flat metal plate, the 'H plate', so called because of its shape that
connects the keyboard trip linkage to the typing unit. Put a flat
blade screwdriver in the slot and slide the H plate against spring
tension to free it. Get it out.

Then lift the typing unit -- complete with the carriage, motor, and
tape punch -- up slightly. Slide it towards the rear to free the runout
linkage from under the keyboard. Take the typing unit all the way out.

-tony

Re: Teletype cheap

[Randy Dawson via cctalk]

There are 4 tie down bolts that you insert in the bottom to secure the printer 
carriage.
this is pretty critical

From: cctalk  on behalf of steve shumaker via 
cctalk 
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 7:39 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Teletype cheap

OK, got it.  Will be my first one. Now, how does one transport the
thing?   Does it easily come off the pedestal?   Can it be laid on it's
back?  Anything need to be secured before it gets moved?

Steve

n 10/24/2018 6:56 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Teletype-Machine-Model-3320-3WA-Teletypewriter-AS-IS-FOR-PARTS-local-pick-up/142981290439?hash=item214a5959c7:g:UXoAAOSwmXJbylEN:rk:6:pf:1=true
>
> b
>

Re: PDP-8 screws

[Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk]

On 10/26/2018 8:04 PM, William Donzelli wrote:

What is the thread? 6-32? 8-32?

--
Will



Thread is 6-32.

Bob



On Oct 26, 2018 8:44 PM, "Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk" 
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:


On 10/26/2018 7:41 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote:

On 10/26/2018 7:19 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote:

William said

One the original PDP-8 ("Straight 8"), the front panel
has two aluminum
strips on the sides, one on the left and one on the
right. Each should have
a pair of flathead countersunk screws, likwly Phillips
head.

Can someone tell me the exact specs, basically thread,
length, head, and
material of the screws?


I have no idea what the straight eight screws are, but for
comparison the sort of screws in
the PDP-11/05 are things like #6-32 x 1/2 phillips pan
head, #10-32 x 5/16 phillips head truss,
#8-32 x 3/8 phillips pan head nyloc, #2-56 x 1/2 phillips
pan head, #4-40 x 3/8 phillips head
flat. And so on it goes.

I read somewhere DEC used a lot of stainless screws but
that may not apply to all of them.
Certainly the cheese head screws that the 11/15's 10-1/2"
chassis pivots on are stainless, I
checked that for curiosity's sake when I machined some
special adapter washers to use with
modern server slides.

At any rate, you have that wondrous (but US only) fastener
supplier's website to help you out.

Steve.


I have four straight-8 panels. All have flat head, stainless
(at least non-magnetic) screws. Three have Philips head screws
and one has slotted head screws. All are 0.38" total length
with about 0.28" thread length. Looks to be an 82 degree
countersink.

Bob

I just noticed the three Philips head panels have the plastic
front, my only glass front has the slotted screws.

Bob

-- 
Vintage computers and electronics

www.dvq.com 
www.tekmuseum.com 
www.decmuseum.org 



--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: PDP-8 screws

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

What is the thread? 6-32? 8-32?

--
Will

On Oct 26, 2018 8:44 PM, "Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk" 
wrote:

> On 10/26/2018 7:41 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote:
>
>> On 10/26/2018 7:19 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>> William said
>>>
 One the original PDP-8 ("Straight 8"), the front panel has two aluminum
 strips on the sides, one on the left and one on the right. Each should
 have
 a pair of flathead countersunk screws, likwly Phillips head.

 Can someone tell me the exact specs, basically thread, length, head, and
 material of the screws?

>>>
>>> I have no idea what the straight eight screws are, but for comparison
>>> the sort of screws in
>>> the PDP-11/05 are things like #6-32 x 1/2 phillips pan head, #10-32 x
>>> 5/16 phillips head truss,
>>> #8-32 x 3/8 phillips pan head nyloc, #2-56 x 1/2 phillips pan head,
>>> #4-40 x 3/8 phillips head
>>> flat. And so on it goes.
>>>
>>> I read somewhere DEC used a lot of stainless screws but that may not
>>> apply to all of them.
>>> Certainly the cheese head screws that the 11/15's 10-1/2" chassis pivots
>>> on are stainless, I
>>> checked that for curiosity's sake when I machined some special adapter
>>> washers to use with
>>> modern server slides.
>>>
>>> At any rate, you have that wondrous (but US only) fastener supplier's
>>> website to help you out.
>>>
>>> Steve.
>>>
>>
>> I have four straight-8 panels. All have flat head, stainless (at least
>> non-magnetic) screws. Three have Philips head screws
>> and one has slotted head screws. All are 0.38" total length with about
>> 0.28" thread length. Looks to be an 82 degree
>> countersink.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> I just noticed the three Philips head panels have the plastic front, my
> only glass front has the slotted screws.
>
> Bob
>
> --
> Vintage computers and electronics
> www.dvq.com
> www.tekmuseum.com
> www.decmuseum.org
>
>

Re: PDP-8 screws

[Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk]

On 10/26/2018 7:41 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote:

On 10/26/2018 7:19 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote:

William said

One the original PDP-8 ("Straight 8"), the front panel has two aluminum
strips on the sides, one on the left and one on the right. Each 
should have

a pair of flathead countersunk screws, likwly Phillips head.

Can someone tell me the exact specs, basically thread, length, head, 
and

material of the screws?


I have no idea what the straight eight screws are, but for comparison 
the sort of screws in
the PDP-11/05 are things like #6-32 x 1/2 phillips pan head, #10-32 x 
5/16 phillips head truss,
#8-32 x 3/8 phillips pan head nyloc, #2-56 x 1/2 phillips pan head, 
#4-40 x 3/8 phillips head

flat. And so on it goes.

I read somewhere DEC used a lot of stainless screws but that may not 
apply to all of them.
Certainly the cheese head screws that the 11/15's 10-1/2" chassis 
pivots on are stainless, I
checked that for curiosity's sake when I machined some special 
adapter washers to use with

modern server slides.

At any rate, you have that wondrous (but US only) fastener supplier's 
website to help you out.


Steve.


I have four straight-8 panels. All have flat head, stainless (at least 
non-magnetic) screws. Three have Philips head screws
and one has slotted head screws. All are 0.38" total length with about 
0.28" thread length. Looks to be an 82 degree

countersink.

Bob

I just noticed the three Philips head panels have the plastic front, my 
only glass front has the slotted screws.


Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: PDP-8 screws

[Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk]

On 10/26/2018 7:19 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote:

William said

One the original PDP-8 ("Straight 8"), the front panel has two aluminum
strips on the sides, one on the left and one on the right. Each should have
a pair of flathead countersunk screws, likwly Phillips head.

Can someone tell me the exact specs, basically thread, length, head, and
material of the screws?


I have no idea what the straight eight screws are, but for comparison the sort 
of screws in
the PDP-11/05 are things like #6-32 x 1/2 phillips pan head, #10-32 x 5/16 
phillips head truss,
#8-32 x 3/8 phillips pan head nyloc, #2-56 x 1/2 phillips pan head, #4-40 x 3/8 
phillips head
flat. And so on it goes.

I read somewhere DEC used a lot of stainless screws but that may not apply to 
all of them.
Certainly the cheese head screws that the 11/15's 10-1/2" chassis pivots on are 
stainless, I
checked that for curiosity's sake when I machined some special adapter washers 
to use with
modern server slides.

At any rate, you have that wondrous (but US only) fastener supplier's website 
to help you out.

Steve.


I have four straight-8 panels. All have flat head, stainless (at least 
non-magnetic) screws. Three have Philips head screws
and one has slotted head screws. All are 0.38" total length with about 
0.28" thread length. Looks to be an 82 degree

countersink.

Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: Teletype cheap

[steve shumaker via cctalk]

OK, got it.  Will be my first one. Now, how does one transport the 
thing?   Does it easily come off the pedestal?   Can it be laid on it's 
back?  Anything need to be secured before it gets moved?


Steve

n 10/24/2018 6:56 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Teletype-Machine-Model-3320-3WA-Teletypewriter-AS-IS-FOR-PARTS-local-pick-up/142981290439?hash=item214a5959c7:g:UXoAAOSwmXJbylEN:rk:6:pf:1=true

b

Re: PDP-8 screws

[Steve Malikoff via cctalk]

William said
> One the original PDP-8 ("Straight 8"), the front panel has two aluminum
> strips on the sides, one on the left and one on the right. Each should have
> a pair of flathead countersunk screws, likwly Phillips head.
>
> Can someone tell me the exact specs, basically thread, length, head, and
> material of the screws?


I have no idea what the straight eight screws are, but for comparison the sort 
of screws in
the PDP-11/05 are things like #6-32 x 1/2 phillips pan head, #10-32 x 5/16 
phillips head truss,
#8-32 x 3/8 phillips pan head nyloc, #2-56 x 1/2 phillips pan head, #4-40 x 3/8 
phillips head
flat. And so on it goes.

I read somewhere DEC used a lot of stainless screws but that may not apply to 
all of them.
Certainly the cheese head screws that the 11/15's 10-1/2" chassis pivots on are 
stainless, I
checked that for curiosity's sake when I machined some special adapter washers 
to use with
modern server slides.

At any rate, you have that wondrous (but US only) fastener supplier's website 
to help you out.

Steve.

Re: PinOut of DEC F11 Chips in a Professional 350

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> I'm pretty sure the other two have the same orientation.

They do; I looked at the KDF11-A prints in the /23 print set, and then looked
at an actual /23. (I should put a hi-res picture of one on the CHWiki page;
the one that's there is pretty miserable.)

Noel

Re: PinOut of DEC F11 Chips in a Professional 350

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Rob Jarratt

> The chips where I believe the RESET is oscillating on pin 23 have been
> labelled E151 and E152 ... But I am not really sure if I have
> identified them and the pin correctly.

E151 is the main CPU chip:

  http://gunkies.org/wiki/F-11_chip_set

E152 is the KEF11-A floating point chip, and E150 is the KTF11-A memory
management chip.

Pin 1 of E150 is definitely in the lower left corner (in the photo); there's
an indent on the left-hand side of the chip, for the usual DIP orientation.
I'm pretty sure the other two have the same orientation.

Noel

Re: TRS-80 Model I modification

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 10/26/18 2:07 PM, Peter Cetinski wrote:

On Oct 26, 2018, at 12:34 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:

Does anyone have a description of how to put 48K of memory in
the TRS-80 Model I without using an Expansion Interface?  I seem
to remember there being some published back in the old days
but can't find anything on the web.  I think it was done with 4164's
and a few pieces of wire wrap wire to jumper the missing address
lines.

TRS8BIT Vol 7 Issue 4 Page 32

http://www.fabsitesuk.com/tandy/trs8bit_year07.pdf



Thank you.  That will do it.


bill

PinOut of DEC F11 Chips in a Professional 350

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

As I mentioned in an earlier thread, I am trying to repair a DEC
Professional 350 system board. I think I know the pinout of the F11 chips
from a KDF11-A printset, can anyone confirm that pin 23 of the DIL package
is the RESET signal? If that is correct then it is oscillating and resetting
the machine constantly. I am trying to trace the source, but it seems to go
through quite a few chips and I haven't yet traced its source.

 

The chips where I believe the RESET is oscillating on pin 23 have been
labelled E151 and E152 in the following photo:
https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/system-board-labelled.jpg But I
am not really sure if I have identified them and the pin correctly.

 

Thanks

 

Rob

Re: modern stuff - i860

[Randy Dawson via cctalk]

Two design wins I remember:

TrueVision, the AT computer graphics people that did the TARGA video boards 
had software to back the board sales up, a 3D animation package TOPAS.
Beautiful, but dog slow even on the fastest 25MHz PCs at the time, so they had 
ported it to the i860 as an add in card.  I think render frame rates went from 
minutes to a few seconds.  I used TOPAS under DOSBox on a current PC, and it 
screams.  Its up on Vetusware if your interested.

The famous graphic supercomputer hardware war, Ardent / Stellar, the later 
merge and purchase by Kubota had two applications, Dore' and Advanced 
Visualization System, AVS.
These impressive machines were canned, and Kubota came out with a i860 desktop 
for graphics.  I remember the introduction in Houston, and the 3D geophysicists 
and petro exploration guys were all over it.  the graphics demos and 
computation capability was amazing.

I never knew what happened to that workstation.

From: cctalk  on behalf of emanuel stiebler via 
cctalk 
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 5:55 AM
To: Chuck Guzis; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: modern stuff

On 2018-10-25 14:48, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

> While this was a failure on a spectacular level, it was by no means the
> only misstep by Intel.   The i860 RISC CPU at one time was even being
> endorsed by BillG as a possible personal computer basis.

the i860 found at least a little niche on graphics boards, so somehow
not a complete failure ;-)

Re: PDP-8 screws

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

should be a standard rack screw i would think


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 2:22 PM William Donzelli via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> One the original PDP-8 ("Straight 8"), the front panel has two aluminum
> strips on the sides, one on the left and one on the right. Each should have
> a pair of flathead countersunk screws, likwly Phillips head.
>
> Can someone tell me the exact specs, basically thread, length, head, and
> material of the screws?
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Will
>

PDP-8 screws

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

One the original PDP-8 ("Straight 8"), the front panel has two aluminum
strips on the sides, one on the left and one on the right. Each should have
a pair of flathead countersunk screws, likwly Phillips head.

Can someone tell me the exact specs, basically thread, length, head, and
material of the screws?

Thank you.

--
Will

DAT tapes anyone?

[Diane Bruce via cctalk]

I rescued a pile of DAT and a drive from scrap locally. I have no use for it.
I'd rather not ship :-( but I am two hours drive from Montreal 4.5-5 hours from
Toronto here in Ottawa. Anyone want this box?

Diane
-- 
- d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://artemis.db.net/~db

Re: TRS-80 Model I modification

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 12:34 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a description of how to put 48K of memory in
> the TRS-80 Model I without using an Expansion Interface?  I seem
> to remember there being some published back in the old days
> but can't find anything on the web.  I think it was done with 4164's
> and a few pieces of wire wrap wire to jumper the missing address
> lines.

TRS8BIT Vol 7 Issue 4 Page 32

http://www.fabsitesuk.com/tandy/trs8bit_year07.pdf 

TRS-80 Model I modification

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Does anyone have a description of how to put 48K of memory in

the TRS-80 Model I without using an Expansion Interface?  I seem

to remember there being some published back in the old days

but can't find anything on the web.  I think it was done with 4164's

and a few pieces of wire wrap wire to jumper the missing address

lines.


bill

Re: 70's computers

[allison via cctalk]

On 10/25/2018 10:46 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 10/25/2018 02:24 PM, allison via cctalk wrote:
>> Likely make a fortune off my stockpile of 2901s. Building machine
>> from the earth up is not that hard, software to make them useful is a
>> big deal.
> Yes, and that's where my 32-bit 2903 project started to bog down.  I
> knew some people, OS security was a total joke, so I COULD have just
> stolen OS 360 MVT, but REALLY, who would do that to themselves?
> I had a few more bits of logic to wire in, to make a 256-way branch
> from the OP-code field of the instruction register to decode
> instructions, and from the register fields of the instruction register
> to OR into the register address.  Then, I had to write the microcode. 
> I'd done some small test bits of microcode, including the multiply,
> and that worked.  (IIRC, the 2903 has an extra shift register, so it
> can do the multiply step in one CPU cycle, the 2901 takes 2.)
>
I come from the dark ages first work project was 8008 based, when it was
new.

My first stab was 74181 ALU based and was trying to do z80 faster than
4mhz... no hope there and
feature creep made it not z80.  I worked a little monitor to make it
useful but it gave me the core
understanding of CPU and how they work.   It was fun developing and
deciding I could change an
instruction to make coding easier.

I also did a simple machine based on a simplification of the basic
microcontroller of the RX01.
It had two instructions Jump CC and DO   It was more than enough to
be a Harvard machine
programmed at the microcode level.

I did those to bridge the college simple logic and sequential circuits
and their jump to programing
a computer with the bit in the middle missing.

> Well, after that, I had a big decision to make.  Should the memory be
> on the system bus, like PDP-11 and VAX, or part of the CPU, like
> IBM-360 and PDP-10?  Then, I had to get memory wired to the bit slice
> system, and then build peripheral controllers.  I had a very rough
> concept scratched up, about 30 chips to make a microcoded 16-bit
> machine, using fast EPROMS for the control store.  A SCSI interface
> would be pretty trivial, but a read-after-write mag tape control and
> an 8-channel serial multiplexer would be much more complicated
> project.  THEN, the big stuff would come, I'd need an OS and language
> compilers.  I could probably whip up a version of CP/M with
> hierarchical directories and time/date stamps, and maybe a simple
> editor, but the WHOLE REASON for this project was to move up to modern
> high-level languages.  And, I had badly underestimated how difficult
> that might become.  One scheme might be to start with my CP/M-like OS,
> and build a wrapper program that would allow me to run OS-360
> compilers and linkers with whatever object libraries they needed, and
> then use them to compile something more to my liking like Pascal.  
> But, it was all looking like a LOT of work.
>
If I ever do another ground up machine its likely to be a OIS, a move
machine.  They are simple and can
be low parts.  They are the RISC of the RISC.

As to chip based the list is [6100, 6120, 9900, 8080, 8085, 8086, z80,
1802, SC/MP, SC/MPII-8073,
6800, 6809, 6502, T-11] as they say long.   Some I still use namely
8039,  8085, z80, and 1802 and on
occasion the 6100 (cmos pdp8).  with older CPUs and newer memory the
resulting machines are
interesting and often fast for their type.  Things like large megabyte
Flash makes cp/m without physical
disk remarkably fast (large flash as disk) and simple.

I still run several CP/M machines (S100 and single board plus Kaypro
4/84++) and the PDP11 is mostly running
RT11 but on occasion I load up V6 Unix RL02 pack.  The vaxs are a small
(10way LAVC) mostly running
VMS5.4H.

> So, I managed to clone a Nat. Semi 32016 system and got it running,
> but it was amazingly slow.
> I suspect that my kluged memory interface was not fully optimal, but
> even the original that I copied was pretty slow.  Then, I spent BIG
> BUCKS to buy a uVAX-II CPU board from a broker, and was finally in HOG
> HEAVEN!  It was certainly fast, almost the speed of the VAX-780's I
> used at work, and ALL MINE!
>
I have the luxury of being there and leading edge for Altair by time 79
rolled around I was PDP11
and would later work in DEC engineering.  By the late 80s I had a nice
PDP11/23 of my own and
not long after a collection of VAX systems that I have to this day.  To
this day VMS is the OS in my
mind though Unix V6, V7(PDP11) and Ultrix(VAX) are around fro the DEC
hardware and Linux on
the desktop.

My idea of doing stuff is a Rpi-3B running a copy of linux on batteries
as a full boat laptop machine.
The Rpi may not be lightning in a bottle but its posting this email!  
What to I do for fun 8039,
PIC or Atmega328P for embedded projects.  One of these days a laptop
running RT11 on one of
the T-11s (PDP-11 chip) I have would be a eye catcher, I'll have to make
the terminal/screen
from a Atmega as hardware 

Re: modern stuff

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2018-10-25 14:48, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

> While this was a failure on a spectacular level, it was by no means the
> only misstep by Intel.   The i860 RISC CPU at one time was even being
> endorsed by BillG as a possible personal computer basis. 

the i860 found at least a little niche on graphics boards, so somehow
not a complete failure ;-)