Re: source for smt probe clip

[Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk]

On 10/27/2018 9:50 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 10/27/18 9:13 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:


On 10/27/18 7:37 PM, Eric Smith wrote:

EZ-Hook XKM

thanks!

https://sigrok.org/wiki/Probe_comparison

is a breakdown. they note that Salae used to ship EZ-Hook but now ship a 
knock-off (no EZ-Hook name molded on)

They don't mention the Pomona 5790, which is pretty much a clone of the
Tek probe.

Still not cheap--about $10 each, lowest price.

--Chuck


If you search for Tektronix or HP grabbers on ebay you can usually find 
them for $1 to $2 each, sometimes less.
I bought 100 of the Tektronix ones a few years ago. They work fine but 
can be easily damaged if your not careful.


Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: source for smt probe clip

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/27/18 9:13 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> 
> 
> On 10/27/18 7:37 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
>> EZ-Hook XKM
> 
> thanks!
> 
> https://sigrok.org/wiki/Probe_comparison
> 
> is a breakdown. they note that Salae used to ship EZ-Hook but now ship a 
> knock-off (no EZ-Hook name molded on)

They don't mention the Pomona 5790, which is pretty much a clone of the
Tek probe.

Still not cheap--about $10 each, lowest price.

--Chuck

Re: source for smt probe clip

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 10/27/18 7:37 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
> EZ-Hook XKM

thanks!

https://sigrok.org/wiki/Probe_comparison

is a breakdown. they note that Salae used to ship EZ-Hook but now ship a 
knock-off (no EZ-Hook name molded on)

Re: VAX Lisp, Macsyma, Maxima

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 10/24/2018 4:07 PM, David Coolbear via cctalk wrote:

Does anyone know if any of these are still available for OpenVMS VAX?

This was posted on the Multics thread in February.

Eric Swenson got the original-ish MACSYMA built and running in ITS.

It's frankensteined together from a mix of source and FASL files from
ITS, Lisp machine Macsyma sources, etc.


You might contact him.  Email me off list, and I'll forward his contact 
info if you can't contact him thru the
Multicians list.  I would imagine it's not for the faint hearted to get 
it going if you do not have experience with

Lisp.

I played with it quite a lot in 75 on the Multics system  It was like 
I'd discovered that Hal9000 was real, as everyone

probably  knows.

I have somewhere a complimentary copy from the people who licensed it 
and had a version for the x86.  I think
4 of the original people on the project worked for the company which did 
it, and they were very nice if your
were a real multician.  But that won't have any sources, just an install 
for the system you used it on.


It would be great for someone to do that if it worked and you can get it 
to run there.

thanks
Jim

Re: source for smt probe clip

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

EZ-Hook XKM. I don't know whether they cloned the HP grabber probe, or
supplied them to HP. They're expensive, so I usually buy the HP grabbers on
eBay.

Watch out. There are some Chinese clone grabbers that look like the XKM or
HP, but aren't nearly as good.


On Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 18:57 Al Kossow via cctalk 
wrote:

> Has anyone seen a source for these clips?
>
> http://bitsavers.org/mysteries/salea_clip.JPG
>

Re: source for smt probe clip

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/27/18 4:51 PM, corey cohen wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 27, 2018, at 7:42 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/27/18 4:19 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
>>> Has anyone seen a source for these clips?
>>>
>>> http://bitsavers.org/mysteries/salea_clip.JPG
>>>
>>> They come with the Salae logic analyzer, and are like the HP logic analyzer 
>>> clips
>>> in that the wire is detachable, instead of the common style you can buy
>>> where you have to solder on a wire.
>>
>> Pomona 5790?
>>
>>
> 
> I thought I saw some that would work at Halted/HSC in Santa Clara this past 
> week.  They were right across from the counter where you pay.  
> 

There's also these "micrograbber" clips at All Electronics for $2 the each:

https://www.allelectronics.com/item/mtc-9b/micrograbber-test-clip-w/0.64mm-square-pin/1.html

I don't like them as much as the Pomonas--the cheapies use only a single
contact, rather than the "pincer" style of the Pomona.

--Chuck

Re: source for smt probe clip

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/27/18 4:19 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> Has anyone seen a source for these clips?
> 
> http://bitsavers.org/mysteries/salea_clip.JPG
> 
> They come with the Salae logic analyzer, and are like the HP logic analyzer 
> clips
> in that the wire is detachable, instead of the common style you can buy
> where you have to solder on a wire.

Pomona 5790?

Re: i860, was : Re: modern stuff

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

CHM has a rather large Intel Paragon system.

I just recently snagged the software and manuals for it on eBay
which we didn't have

http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/X1644.99

and others

http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/search/?s=intel+paragon

source for smt probe clip

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

Has anyone seen a source for these clips?

http://bitsavers.org/mysteries/salea_clip.JPG

They come with the Salae logic analyzer, and are like the HP logic analyzer 
clips
in that the wire is detachable, instead of the common style you can buy
where you have to solder on a wire.

Re: Teletype cheap

[steve shumaker via cctalk]

Thanks all for the comments - as usual, this list offers up stuff you 
can't get with Google.  Bill,  you started a thought in your comment but 
didn't complete it - was it significant?:         "and if you can find 
away to transport the TTY with the..."



Steve

On 10/27/2018 6:46 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 11:31 PM Tony Duell via cctalk 
wrote:


On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 3:38 AM steve shumaker via cctalk
 wrote:

OK, got it.  Will be my first one. Now, how does one transport the
thing?   Does it easily come off the pedestal?   Can it be laid on it's
back?  Anything need to be secured before it gets moved?

It does come off the stand easily. Do not lay it on its back without
either removing or securing the typing unit (main mechanical chassis).

To expand on that

To get it off the stand, first take the backplate off the stand (I think
it's
a couple of obvious screws). There may be a power supply for the reader
inside the stand, there may be other electronics (unlikely). Unplug the
cables.IIRC the reader power supply just unclips.

There are 4 screws going up through the top flanges of the stand into the
base pan of the machine. Get a couple of (strong) friends to steady the
machine
itself and take the screws out. Then just lift it off the stand. It
_will_ tip forwards
if not steadied, hence needing the friends.

The typing unit is only resting on rubber vibration isolators, it is not
fixed
down. There is a hole on the bottom of the machine where you can fit
a screw (it was some kind of self-tapping thing) into the cast metal
base of the typing unit to anchor it. But I find it easier to remove the
typng unit.

To do that, take off the top cover : Pull off the knob on the front and the
platten knob. Slide the front nameplate thing down to remove it. Take
out the screws thus exposed, the thumbscrews on the back. There may
be a screw at the rear left corner of the reader cover (on the side) but
it is almost always missing. Lift off the cover.

Unplug the connectors at the back of the call control unit (electronics
chassis) and disconnect the wires from the little leaf swtich at the rear
right of the typng unit.

Now look down behind the rear right corner of the keyboard. There's
a flat metal plate, the 'H plate', so called because of its shape that
connects the keyboard trip linkage to the typing unit. Put a flat
blade screwdriver in the slot and slide the H plate against spring
tension to free it. Get it out.

Then lift the typing unit -- complete with the carriage, motor, and
tape punch -- up slightly. Slide it towards the rear to free the runout
linkage from under the keyboard. Take the typing unit all the way out.

-tony




Really check carefully for the small inset screw near the reader on the
side of most tty covers.  If you try to remove the cover before removing
this screw you'll RIP the cover near the reader and possibly crack the
cover.  The presence of this screw is a good sign, it means that the
teletype has never been parted out and/or only serviced by a professional.

Take good photos before you disassemble anything.  Avoid removing the cover
of the keyboard keys at all costs.

See vintagecomputer.net/teletype/  from there download a  how to "101" pdf
with useful info how to wire it up and a few other things about getting
started not already mentioned..

It is very possible that the reader motor is installed in the pedestal.  If
so, you will have to detach it first before you remove the TTY from the
pedestal (not sure if this was already mentioned).  Take good pictures
before you remove the reader motor from the pedestal because it tends to
fall apart the way it's installed into pieces that will have to be
re-assembled.

I usually remove the screws from inside of the pedestal.  There is no
reason to disassemble the actual TTY for transport and if you can find a
way to transport the TTY with the

My getting-started philosophy is to clean out the dust and crud, check the
fuses, make sure the printer and keyboard bars are straight, make sure the
4 gold pins in the reader are straight and replace the print hammer
rubber.  Then power it on in LOCAL mode.  If it does not continuously
chatter you're in good shape.  Start with the local keyboard/printer to
work first.   Leave things like the UCC-6 (power supply) and reader relay
(if there is one) as is until you know why you need to change something.
TTYs have a different wiring but you need to understand the context of how
it was used before you return yours to "stock".  If you determine you need
to oil a stuck part use sewing machine oil or NYE oil (my choice), but it
will not hurt a clean TTY to hold off on the oil until you start heavy
use.  They're pretty robust machines.

Bill

FP11-A Technical Manual

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

So, I bought a copy of the FP11-A Technical Manual (EK-FP11A-TM), but when it
got here, it was the 'Preliminary' version (-PRE), with type-written text,
some of the figures are hand-drawn, etc.

This manual does not seem to be generally available online, although at one
point a copy was available for download briefly; although it's not the
greatest scan job, I have put it up here:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/dload/EK-FP11A-TM-002.pdf

So, is it worth my scanning the -PRE version, or should I just punt, and we'll
go with that scan of the -002?

Noel

Re: modern stuff

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/26/18 6:10 AM, Gordon Henderson via cctalk wrote:

> However it was a royal PITA to code for although a 32-bit CPU, it would
> read memory 64 bits at a time (actually 128 IIRC to satisfy the cache),
> with half that 64-bit word being an instruction for the integer unit and
> half for the floating point unit, so you effectively had to build a
> floating point pipeline by hand coded instructions, so 8 (I think)
> instructions to load the pipeline, then each subsequent instruction
> would feed another value into the pipe, then another 8 at the end to
> empty it. Great for big matrix operations, rubbish for a single add of 2
> FP numbers.

My impression of the i860 was that it might have been fun for about 2
weeks for which to code assembly, but after that, you'd really start
looking hard for an HLL to do the dirty work for you.  While there's a
sense of accomplishment over looking at a page of painfully
hand-optimized code that manages to keep everything busy with no
"bubbles", you begin to wonder if there isn't a better way to spend your
life.

--Chuck

SUN keyboard for grabs

[Diane Bruce via cctalk]

I am tossing a pile of old PC keyboards but found one SUN type C keyboard.
It's missing a few keys :-( but might interest anyone needing spare parts.

Missing
Find/Cut left keypad
"."/Suppr on right keypad
"c" key is missing
one foot is missing

I'll ship if you pay postage.

- Diane
-- 
- d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://artemis.db.net/~db

RE: PinOut of DEC F11 Chips in a Professional 350

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Patrick
> Finnegan via cctalk
> Sent: 27 October 2018 13:48
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: PinOut of DEC F11 Chips in a Professional 350
> 
> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 04:06 Rob Jarratt via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I have been tracing the source of the RESET, because as I have said it
> > is oscillating, and it seems to go through a *lot* of logic, and I
> > haven't fully traced the source of the oscillation yet.
> >
> 
> Have you checked the PSU output? My first guess would be bad caps in the
> power supply.
> 


I should have said that I have already checked, the ripple is about 100mv peak 
to peak, which I assume is OK. The green DC OK LED is illuminating too, so I 
think the PSU is fine.

Regards

Rob 

Re: PDP-8 screws

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

also see em in the audio world for rack mounting equipmednt

On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 11:10 AM Adrian Stoness 
wrote:

> u can still get em see them on modern racks from time to time
>
> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 11:07 AM Jon Elson via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> On 10/26/2018 09:19 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote:
>> > William said
>> >> One the original PDP-8 ("Straight 8"), the front panel has two aluminum
>> >> strips on the sides, one on the left and one on the right. Each should
>> have
>> >> a pair of flathead countersunk screws, likwly Phillips head.
>> >>
>> >> Can someone tell me the exact specs, basically thread, length, head,
>> and
>> >> material of the screws?
>> >
>> > I have no idea what the straight eight screws are, but for comparison
>> the sort of screws in
>> >
>> The screws in 19" relay racks are almost all 10-32.
>> Flat-heads come in 60, 82, 90 and 110 degree angles.  I'm
>> guessing these might be 82 degree, that is quite standard.
>> To avoid marring the panels, there were things that had a
>> nylon "washer" or ring that was capped by a metal "washer".
>> These both had an internal angle that matched the screw
>> angle.  The metal washer was shorter than the nylon one, so
>> ONLY the nylon washer touched the panel.  The metal washer
>> was to prevent the nylon one from being squashed by the
>> screw.  I have NO IDEA where you would find these things
>> today, maybe they still make them.  But, they used to be
>> quite common where equipment racks were used.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>

Re: PDP-8 screws

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

u can still get em see them on modern racks from time to time

On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 11:07 AM Jon Elson via cctalk 
wrote:

> On 10/26/2018 09:19 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote:
> > William said
> >> One the original PDP-8 ("Straight 8"), the front panel has two aluminum
> >> strips on the sides, one on the left and one on the right. Each should
> have
> >> a pair of flathead countersunk screws, likwly Phillips head.
> >>
> >> Can someone tell me the exact specs, basically thread, length, head, and
> >> material of the screws?
> >
> > I have no idea what the straight eight screws are, but for comparison
> the sort of screws in
> >
> The screws in 19" relay racks are almost all 10-32.
> Flat-heads come in 60, 82, 90 and 110 degree angles.  I'm
> guessing these might be 82 degree, that is quite standard.
> To avoid marring the panels, there were things that had a
> nylon "washer" or ring that was capped by a metal "washer".
> These both had an internal angle that matched the screw
> angle.  The metal washer was shorter than the nylon one, so
> ONLY the nylon washer touched the panel.  The metal washer
> was to prevent the nylon one from being squashed by the
> screw.  I have NO IDEA where you would find these things
> today, maybe they still make them.  But, they used to be
> quite common where equipment racks were used.
>
> Jon
>

Re: PDP-8 screws

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 10/26/2018 09:19 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote:

William said

One the original PDP-8 ("Straight 8"), the front panel has two aluminum
strips on the sides, one on the left and one on the right. Each should have
a pair of flathead countersunk screws, likwly Phillips head.

Can someone tell me the exact specs, basically thread, length, head, and
material of the screws?


I have no idea what the straight eight screws are, but for comparison the sort 
of screws in

The screws in 19" relay racks are almost all 10-32.  
Flat-heads come in 60, 82, 90 and 110 degree angles.  I'm 
guessing these might be 82 degree, that is quite standard.  
To avoid marring the panels, there were things that had a 
nylon "washer" or ring that was capped by a metal "washer".  
These both had an internal angle that matched the screw 
angle.  The metal washer was shorter than the nylon one, so 
ONLY the nylon washer touched the panel.  The metal washer 
was to prevent the nylon one from being squashed by the 
screw.  I have NO IDEA where you would find these things 
today, maybe they still make them.  But, they used to be 
quite common where equipment racks were used.


Jon

Re: Teletype cheap

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 11:31 PM Tony Duell via cctalk 
wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 3:38 AM steve shumaker via cctalk
>  wrote:
> >
> > OK, got it.  Will be my first one. Now, how does one transport the
> > thing?   Does it easily come off the pedestal?   Can it be laid on it's
> > back?  Anything need to be secured before it gets moved?
>
> It does come off the stand easily. Do not lay it on its back without
> either removing or securing the typing unit (main mechanical chassis).
>
> To expand on that
>
> To get it off the stand, first take the backplate off the stand (I think
> it's
> a couple of obvious screws). There may be a power supply for the reader
> inside the stand, there may be other electronics (unlikely). Unplug the
> cables.IIRC the reader power supply just unclips.
>
> There are 4 screws going up through the top flanges of the stand into the
> base pan of the machine. Get a couple of (strong) friends to steady the
> machine
> itself and take the screws out. Then just lift it off the stand. It
> _will_ tip forwards
> if not steadied, hence needing the friends.
>
> The typing unit is only resting on rubber vibration isolators, it is not
> fixed
> down. There is a hole on the bottom of the machine where you can fit
> a screw (it was some kind of self-tapping thing) into the cast metal
> base of the typing unit to anchor it. But I find it easier to remove the
> typng unit.
>
> To do that, take off the top cover : Pull off the knob on the front and the
> platten knob. Slide the front nameplate thing down to remove it. Take
> out the screws thus exposed, the thumbscrews on the back. There may
> be a screw at the rear left corner of the reader cover (on the side) but
> it is almost always missing. Lift off the cover.
>
> Unplug the connectors at the back of the call control unit (electronics
> chassis) and disconnect the wires from the little leaf swtich at the rear
> right of the typng unit.
>
> Now look down behind the rear right corner of the keyboard. There's
> a flat metal plate, the 'H plate', so called because of its shape that
> connects the keyboard trip linkage to the typing unit. Put a flat
> blade screwdriver in the slot and slide the H plate against spring
> tension to free it. Get it out.
>
> Then lift the typing unit -- complete with the carriage, motor, and
> tape punch -- up slightly. Slide it towards the rear to free the runout
> linkage from under the keyboard. Take the typing unit all the way out.
>
> -tony
>



Really check carefully for the small inset screw near the reader on the
side of most tty covers.  If you try to remove the cover before removing
this screw you'll RIP the cover near the reader and possibly crack the
cover.  The presence of this screw is a good sign, it means that the
teletype has never been parted out and/or only serviced by a professional.

Take good photos before you disassemble anything.  Avoid removing the cover
of the keyboard keys at all costs.

See vintagecomputer.net/teletype/  from there download a  how to "101" pdf
with useful info how to wire it up and a few other things about getting
started not already mentioned..

It is very possible that the reader motor is installed in the pedestal.  If
so, you will have to detach it first before you remove the TTY from the
pedestal (not sure if this was already mentioned).  Take good pictures
before you remove the reader motor from the pedestal because it tends to
fall apart the way it's installed into pieces that will have to be
re-assembled.

I usually remove the screws from inside of the pedestal.  There is no
reason to disassemble the actual TTY for transport and if you can find a
way to transport the TTY with the

My getting-started philosophy is to clean out the dust and crud, check the
fuses, make sure the printer and keyboard bars are straight, make sure the
4 gold pins in the reader are straight and replace the print hammer
rubber.  Then power it on in LOCAL mode.  If it does not continuously
chatter you're in good shape.  Start with the local keyboard/printer to
work first.   Leave things like the UCC-6 (power supply) and reader relay
(if there is one) as is until you know why you need to change something.
TTYs have a different wiring but you need to understand the context of how
it was used before you return yours to "stock".  If you determine you need
to oil a stuck part use sewing machine oil or NYE oil (my choice), but it
will not hurt a clean TTY to hold off on the oil until you start heavy
use.  They're pretty robust machines.

Bill

i860, was : Re: modern stuff

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2018-10-26 09:10, Gordon Henderson via cctalk wrote:

> I worked for a company that made supercomputer boards out of the i860 at
> one point - at the time (very early 90's) they were blindingly fast,
> 40Mhz, 3 instructions per clock cycle which, since one was a floating
> point multiply and add meant that it was pretty good - at the time.
> 
> However it was a royal PITA to code for although a 32-bit CPU, it would
> read memory 64 bits at a time (actually 128 IIRC to satisfy the cache),
> with half that 64-bit word being an instruction for the integer unit and
> half for the floating point unit, so you effectively had to build a
> floating point pipeline by hand coded instructions, so 8 (I think)
> instructions to load the pipeline, then each subsequent instruction
> would feed another value into the pipe, then another 8 at the end to
> empty it. Great for big matrix operations, rubbish for a single add of 2
> FP numbers.
> 
> The issue came when you wanted to take an interrupt - the overhead of
> flushing the pipe, reloading it all for the next context, and so on
> really bogged it down.
> 
> Not to mention writing assembly code in 2 columns...
> 
> There were quite a few systems built with about 30 boards in them, each
> having 2 x i860's and a good few MB of RAM (64MB I think) built.

There was actually a nice PC Mainboard from Hauppauge, with an i486 &
i860 on the same board ...

Always wanted to have one of those, never found a used one. And it was
running some king of Unix back then ...

http://www.geekdot.com/hauppauge-4860/

Cheers

Re: PinOut of DEC F11 Chips in a Professional 350

[Patrick Finnegan via cctalk]

On Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 04:06 Rob Jarratt via cctalk 
wrote:

>
> I have been tracing the source of the RESET, because as I have said it is
> oscillating, and it seems to go through a *lot* of logic, and I haven't
> fully traced the source of the oscillation yet.
>

Have you checked the PSU output? My first guess would be bad caps in the
power supply.

Pat

>

Re: modern stuff

[Gordon Henderson via cctalk]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:


On 2018-10-25 14:48, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:


While this was a failure on a spectacular level, it was by no means the
only misstep by Intel.   The i860 RISC CPU at one time was even being
endorsed by BillG as a possible personal computer basis.


the i860 found at least a little niche on graphics boards, so somehow
not a complete failure ;-)


I worked for a company that made supercomputer boards out of the i860 at 
one point - at the time (very early 90's) they were blindingly fast, 
40Mhz, 3 instructions per clock cycle which, since one was a floating 
point multiply and add meant that it was pretty good - at the time.


However it was a royal PITA to code for although a 32-bit CPU, it would 
read memory 64 bits at a time (actually 128 IIRC to satisfy the cache), 
with half that 64-bit word being an instruction for the integer unit and 
half for the floating point unit, so you effectively had to build a 
floating point pipeline by hand coded instructions, so 8 (I think) 
instructions to load the pipeline, then each subsequent instruction would 
feed another value into the pipe, then another 8 at the end to empty it. 
Great for big matrix operations, rubbish for a single add of 2 FP numbers.


The issue came when you wanted to take an interrupt - the overhead of 
flushing the pipe, reloading it all for the next context, and so on really 
bogged it down.


Not to mention writing assembly code in 2 columns...

There were quite a few systems built with about 30 boards in them, each 
having 2 x i860's and a good few MB of RAM (64MB I think) built.


-Gordon

Re: 70's computers

[B M via cctalk]

I believe I have a preliminary copy of Focal-11.

See: http://iamvirtual.ca/collection/systems/mediadoc/mediadoc.html




On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 06:11 ED SHARPE via cctalk, 
wrote:

> both will run focal... but I need  focal 11 on paper tape I have asked
> several people  but have not heard if it is even available?
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>
> On Tuesday, October 23, 2018 Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
> j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu; cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> PS:
>
> > Not the simplest machine to implement, mind - the -8 is a lot
> > simpler.
>
> As a rough measure of how much more complex, the -8/E and -11/20 are
> roughly
> contemporaneous, and built out of the same technology (SSI TTL on larger
> boards): the -8/E CPU is 5 quad boards, and the -11/20 CPU is 9 quad board
> (equivalents - some are duals, etc).
>
> Noel
>

Re: Scan of Micro Peripherals Inc MPI 91/92 Product Manual Avail?

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 1:21 AM Al Kossow via cctech 
wrote:

>
>
> On 10/25/18 4:00 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote:
>
> > If you need a sheet-fed duplex scanner for B-size, expect to spend a
> pretty
> > good chunk of change even for a used one.
> >
>
> I've been through several million pages with my Panasonic KV-3065CW
> duplex tabloid color scanner
>
> They can be found used for <$500 now
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/292774459578


Thanks Al, I am going to go on your authority :-)

RE: PinOut of DEC F11 Chips in a Professional 350

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

Thanks Noel. According to the printset for the KDF11-A pin 23 is the RESET
signal, which would make it the 3rd pin from the right at the top right of
the CPU. The printset also showed a second chip with its RESET on pin 23 and
I have confirmed that E151 and E152 have pin 23 tied together. So I am
pretty confident that this is indeed the RESET.

I have been tracing the source of the RESET, because as I have said it is
oscillating, and it seems to go through a *lot* of logic, and I haven't
fully traced the source of the oscillation yet.

Regards

Rob

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
> Chiappa via cctalk
> Sent: 27 October 2018 02:56
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
> Subject: Re: PinOut of DEC F11 Chips in a Professional 350
> 
> > From: Rob Jarratt
> 
> > The chips where I believe the RESET is oscillating on pin 23 have
been
> > labelled E151 and E152 ... But I am not really sure if I have
> > identified them and the pin correctly.
> 
> E151 is the main CPU chip:
> 
>   http://gunkies.org/wiki/F-11_chip_set
> 
> E152 is the KEF11-A floating point chip, and E150 is the KTF11-A memory
> management chip.
> 
> Pin 1 of E150 is definitely in the lower left corner (in the photo);
there's an
> indent on the left-hand side of the chip, for the usual DIP orientation.
> I'm pretty sure the other two have the same orientation.
> 
>   Noel

Re: Scan of Micro Peripherals Inc MPI 91/92 Product Manual Avail?

[jos via cctalk]

On 26.10.18 01:16, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:



On 10/25/18 4:00 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote:


If you need a sheet-fed duplex scanner for B-size, expect to spend a pretty
good chunk of change even for a used one.



I've been through several million pages with my Panasonic KV-3065CW
duplex tabloid color scanner

They can be found used for <$500 now

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292774459578




If you are willing to go with obsolete interfaces :

my Firewire-only duplex/A3 Kodak i280 scanner was mine for 100 Euro.

Sheet feeder works OK, unit even has a inkjet printer to label scanned sheets 
wit a code.
Can fully recommend it.


Jos

Re: modern stuff - i860

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2018-10-26 16:26, Randy Dawson wrote:
> Two design wins I remember:
> 
> TrueVision, the AT computer graphics people that did the TARGA video
> boards had software to back the board sales up, a 3D animation package
> TOPAS.
> Beautiful, but dog slow even on the fastest 25MHz PCs at the time, so
> they had ported it to the i860 as an add in card.  I think render frame
> rates went from minutes to a few seconds.  I used TOPAS under DOSBox on
> a current PC, and it screams.  Its up on Vetusware if your interested.
> 
> The famous graphic supercomputer hardware war, Ardent / Stellar, the
> later merge and purchase by Kubota had two applications, Dore' and
> Advanced Visualization System, AVS.
> These impressive machines were canned, and Kubota came out with a i860
> desktop for graphics.  I remember the introduction in Houston, and the
> 3D geophysicists and petro exploration guys were all over it.  the
> graphics demos and computation capability was amazing.
> 

Most high end graphics on DecStations had an i860 on it. Rumor is, they
were made by Kubota, but never saw a drawing or schematics to prove it ...