Re: HP9816 PAL16L8

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 6/10/19 8:44 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:

> 
> You can detect sequential logic in the PAL by :
> 
> For each combination of inputs :
>Read the outputs
>  Toggle an input (change from 0 to 1 and back again or vice versa)
>  Compare the outputs to what they were before -- if they have
> changed then there's a sequential function on that input
>  Check the next input
>   Check the next combination of inputs

For purely combinatorial PLDs, see my blog entry on the subject over at
vcfed.org; I did the work to clone a few PALs some years ago and
documented the process.

FWIW, the setup to do this was a few TTL ICs connected to the parallel
port of a PC.   Nowadays, I'd probably do the same with an inexpensive
MCU--the programmable nature of MCU pins lends a certain amount of
flexibility to the process.

Basically, you separate the inputs from the outputs and then run all
combinations of the inputs, observing the outputs.   If the tristate
feature is used on outputs, there's a way to discover the difference
between a tristated pin and a genuine input.

There are a number of tools to perform reduction on the results, such as
Logic Friday.   After that, you're left with a bunch of logic equations
that can be fed into a PAL/GAL assembler and programmed.

--Chuck

Re: HP9816 PAL16L8

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 12:23 AM Paul Berger via cctalk
 wrote:
>
>
> On 2019-06-08 7:14 a.m., Piero Andreini via cctalk wrote:
> > desperately looking for jedec file of PAL 16L8 position U69 part # 1820-2991

> We can hope that it is all combinational logic and I can run trough all
> combinations of inputs and capture the output and we can develop
> equations that way as long as they did not do anything like use feedback
> to create registers as one person suggested could be done.

You can detect sequential logic in the PAL by :

For each combination of inputs :
   Read the outputs
 Toggle an input (change from 0 to 1 and back again or vice versa)
 Compare the outputs to what they were before -- if they have
changed then there's a sequential function on that input
 Check the next input
  Check the next combination of inputs


It is my guess that the logic in this PAL is much the same as the DMA logic,
etc (but cut down to only support DMA channel 0) of the HP98624 HPIB card.
This board uses only TTL, no PAL, so you might be able to work out suitable
equations from that.

-tony

Re: HP9816 PAL16L8

[Paul Berger via cctalk]

On 2019-06-08 7:14 a.m., Piero Andreini via cctalk wrote:

desperately looking for jedec file of PAL 16L8 position U69 part # 1820-2991


I pulled the CPU board out of my HP9816 and was happy to see that the 
component in question is in a socket however there is a problem.  The 
component in mine is a HAL16L8 note the "H" I found a datasheet and 
apparently in the early days of PALs at MMI you could do your 
development using PALs and then send the equations to MMI and they would 
produce a mask programmed semi custom chip with the same logic.  The 
problem with this is it does not have a program ROM like a traditional 
PAL so you cannot extract a valid JEDEC from it, I confirmed this by 
dumping it as a PAL16L8 and then decompiling the JED file to extract the 
equations and they are junk, even just browsing the RAW JED looked suspect.


We can hope that it is all combinational logic and I can run trough all 
combinations of inputs and capture the output and we can develop 
equations that way as long as they did not do anything like use feedback 
to create registers as one person suggested could be done.


Paul.

Re: Modems and external dialers.

[Tomasz Rola via cctalk]

On Thu, Jun 06, 2019 at 01:43:40PM +0200, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 at 20:06, Fred Cisin via cctalk
>  wrote:
> >
> > I don't think that my Fossil (Palm-OS WATCH) does IRDA.
> > I should find somebody who will pay me money for such a piece of
> > crap^H^H^H^H NEAT technology.
> 
[...]
> 
> Now? No keyboards at all.
> 
> No, I am not happy about that, either.
> 
> I could read the screens of my Psion and Nokia in bright sunshine.
> American-design ones are slowly edging back towards that, but it's
> still difficult. Daylight-readable screens have disappeared from the
> market.
> 
> I'm not happy about that, either.
> 
> My Psions and Nokias had bulletproof OSes that lasted for years
> without a single update, and yes, they were Internet-connected by the
> last few generations. They ran in a few tens of megabytes of
> nonvolatile storage.
> 
> Now, my tablet and iPhone and Android phones need *at least* 3 or 4
> apps updating every day. If I don't use one for a few weeks, it's just
> like Windows -- I have to do half an hour of updates before I can use
> it. The OS needs to be replaced every month or two to fix all the
> flaws in it, and that's a gigabyte or so of storage.
> 
> I am *furious* about this.

I share the sentiment and I guess I could give similar description
(yours was very interesting, BTW).  If I had a privilege to own
Psion. But, when I went on for shopping, Psion was already bowing out
of the PDA market. So I bought Compaq iPAQ 3630, installed Familiar
Linux on it and hoped there would be a future when PDAs can be
bought. Hoho, I was so wrong. But while researching, I could on one
ocassion tap a bit on this excellent Psion 5mx keyboard in a shop. I
think about this keyboard to this very day.

About displays: my ideal display was the one from iPAQ (they were also
used in other handheld PDAs of the time). It was called transflective
LCD. They are easily recognized, because the light can be permamently
turned off. "Normal" LCD has a backlight, i.e. a layer of
leds/incandescents which shine through from the back of the display
towards the user. Transflectives have special reflective layer in the
back, and a diode on a side. The external light reflects and shines
back through the crystal layer. Sorry for laymanish description, but I
hope I have got it right.

Anyway, such display looked best in full sun. The one in 3630 could
display 4096 colors (with spectrum slightly bent towards pinky). Later
iPAQ models could do 65k colors (again slightly bent, but this time
much less visible). I used mine PDA as a proto ebook reader, lots of
html and pdb material read outdoors. The same kind of LCD was to be
found in many phones.

For whatever reason, morons decided the shiny LCD should be next best
thing. And transflective got lost. Just like this. Nada. Appears like
the very meaning of "mobile" changed during last twenty years - first
it meant "outdoors" and now it means "from one couch to another,
indoors".

> "The JesusPhone, I swear it is smiling at me: Come to me. come to me
> and be saved. The luscious curves, the polished glissade of the icons
> in the multi-touch interface - whoever designed that thing is an
> intuitive illusionist, I realise fuzzily as my fingertip closes in on
> the screen: That's at least a class five glamour."
> (Charles Stross, /The Fuller Memorandum/)
> 
> They're very shiny. They do a lot.
> 
> But I had a better *phone* and a better *PDA* 20 years ago. The whole
> is much less than the sum of its parts.

Twenty years ago people using such tech were easily falling into
"elite users" of some kind. Either because of earnings or because they
had nontrivial needs and were decided to satisfy them - and the
machines reflected this. Not so with todays users, and again, machines
reflect this.

I am rather baffled whenever I read Psion had milion users and yet
this was not enough for them. Plenty of people would consider
themselves lucky if their books, cars or games were bought by this
many. The attitude of Psion managers is totally disgusting for me,
unless I had not taken something into account.

Perhaps niche technical products should be sold by those who
understand niche markets. I imagine that if I came to manager of niche
recording label and suggested he should get rid of musicians and start
recording some generic crap outsourced from other side of the world to
"reduce costs" I guess I would fly out the window with his boot in my
arse. In contrast, I imagine that coming with similar proposition to
manager of huge (so called) tech firm I would get a bl**job and some
of his shares. But maybe I am romantic.

-- 
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  

Re: Kids these days...

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

> The disclaimer at the bottom of the page is good for a laugh, and could be a 
> hint.
> >   http://www.gopherprotocol.com

That is pretty boilerplate legal, actually.

--
Will

Re: Kids these days...

[Brent Hilpert via cctalk]

On 2019-Jun-10, at 11:11 AM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
> I wouldn’t invest in an IoT buzzword company whose web page admits that the 
> products they are talking about don’t exist yet, headed by a non-engineer, 
> even without the fishy international money laundering smell. It’s interesting 
> how quickly you ferreted that out, William. I don’t have a clue about 
> business stuff like that. 
> 
> Yesterday I saw a company car for a presumed IT service company called Telnet 
> something or other. I don’t think I would rely on Telnet for my information 
> security needs. 


The disclaimer at the bottom of the page is good for a laugh, and could be a 
hint.  
>   http://www.gopherprotocol.com

Summary:
What we say here isn't what we are doing, it's what we might do in the future.
And if we change our minds or can't do it, don't expect us to tell you.

Summary of summary:
Don't trust anything we say.

RE: Old soaftware and documentation

[Electronics Plus via cctalk]

> From: Cindy Croxton

> I have a large qty to donate

Roughly what does it go to - old PC's; Windows boxes; etc?

Noel

DOS/early Windows/Tandy for the most part
A small amount of SCO and other odd Unix type stuff.

Cindy


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Old soaftware and documentation

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Cindy Croxton

> I have a large qty to donate

Roughly what does it go to - old PC's; Windows boxes; etc?

Noel

Re: Old soaftware and documentation

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 6/10/19 1:04 PM, Electronics Plus via cctalk wrote:

I have a large qty to donate to a vintage computer group. I do not want to
ship. Someone in Austin or San Antonio area want to come and get it?

I would like it gone before this Saturday.


How large is large?  Are we talking fills a desk top?  A Gaylord?  More?

Please take pictures of it.  Hopefully the titles / versions can be 
identified.


I'll socialize it with people in my community.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

June 22

[Electronics Plus via cctalk]

My warehouse will be open on Sat, Jun 22, from 10-3 for anyone that wants to
come scrounge. I am 1 hour from San Antonio, or 2.5 hours from Austin, or
4-5 hours from Houston or Dallas (in decent traffic and weather).

 

Cindy Croxton

Electronics Plus

1613 Water Street

Kerrville, TX 78028

830-370-3239 cell

sa...@elecplus.com

 



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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Old soaftware and documentation

[Electronics Plus via cctalk]

I have a large qty to donate to a vintage computer group. I do not want to
ship. Someone in Austin or San Antonio area want to come and get it?

I would like it gone before this Saturday.

 

Cindy Croxton

Electronics Plus

1613 Water Street

Kerrville, TX 78028

830-370-3239 cell

sa...@elecplus.com

 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Kids these days...

[Lyndon Nerenberg via cctalk]

William Donzelli via cctalk writes:
> It is a real company, but if you look into the SEC papers, there is a
> LOT of shady stuff there. Its sole job may be to move money in and out
> of the Ukraine.

I was going to shy away from those thoughts, but ...

* a "new" startup, since 2009?

* actual patent *numbers* to back up the claims?

It all looks pretty bogus.

Re: Kids these days...

[Tomasz Rola via cctalk]

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 07:56:29AM -0700, geneb via cctalk wrote:
> Get a load of this:
> http://www.gopherprotocol.com
> 
> I pointed them to RFC 1436 in case they haven't been paying attention.

The lousy page does not open in any of four browsers I tried (lynx,
w3m, dillo, even firefox). Finally, cache from goog opened in FF. They
claim to be revolutionary, then proceed to talk about personal
tracking via bracelets and something about tracking animals. So, is
this goobbledybook about home arrested criminals? I think I watched a
movie with very beautiful Robin Tunney who had been chained wirelessly
and waited for prosecution in some decrepit location.

Since their description of themselves is not very clear, I guess they
are going to dissapear.

> I eagerly await their next protocols, IPX and TCP/IP!

Please. No. Wait. Can they write an operating system, say, let's call
it Windows for IoTs?

-- 
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **

Re: Kids these days...

[Mark J. Blair via cctalk]

I wouldn’t invest in an IoT buzzword company whose web page admits that the 
products they are talking about don’t exist yet, headed by a non-engineer, even 
without the fishy international money laundering smell. It’s interesting how 
quickly you ferreted that out, William. I don’t have a clue about business 
stuff like that. 

Yesterday I saw a company car for a presumed IT service company called Telnet 
something or other. I don’t think I would rely on Telnet for my information 
security needs. 

--
Mark J. Blair 
http://www.nf6x.net

Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (a...@alanlee.org)

[Piero Andreini via cctalk]

Yes it’s true but my knowledge is not enough to do it. Maybe you would like to 
take a look at schematic?
http://www.hpmuseum.net/capcha/freecap_wrap.php?r=4020 


The output signal /HPIBGr from pin 18 of the PAL (sheet 17) is stuck at 3 Volts 
(even disconnecting the pin to the pcb), consequently the /DPEn signal always 
remains at logic level 1, (sheet 12) so the Peripheral Data Bus is never 
connected to the Processor Data Bus. (pin /enable 74LS245 IC U54 sheet 12)
I also tested U93 (sheet 12) driving the signal /HPIBGr by a signal injector 
and is working. 

Obviously trying to read the PAL (which doesn't seem to be protected) I got 
something that doesn't make any sense.

Piero

> Il giorno 10 giu 2019, alle ore 17:46, dwight  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> Again, is it just an address decoder or something more complicated. One can 
> often determine the logic by looking at a schematic and knowing what it needs 
> to do.
> Dwight
> From: cctech  on behalf of Piero Andreini via 
> cctech 
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 7:58 AM
> To: cct...@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (a...@alanlee.org)
>  
> 
> > L series are combinatorial only.  You (or someone who has a working one) 
> > should be able to figure out a logic map by either running through all 
> > the input permutation or putting it in a reader that will do the same 
> > (vs reading the fuse data).
> > 
> > -Alan
> > 
> > Good luck.
> 
> unfortunately I don't have a working PAL, that's why I'm looking for the 
> jedec file

Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (a...@alanlee.org)

[Piero Andreini via cctalk]

> L series are combinatorial only.  You (or someone who has a working one) 
> should be able to figure out a logic map by either running through all 
> the input permutation or putting it in a reader that will do the same 
> (vs reading the fuse data).
> 
> -Alan
> 
> Good luck.

unfortunately I don't have a working PAL, that's why I'm looking for the jedec 
file

Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (a...@alanlee.org)

[dwight via cctalk]

Again, is it just an address decoder or something more complicated. One can 
often determine the logic by looking at a schematic and knowing what it needs 
to do.
Dwight

From: cctech  on behalf of Piero Andreini via 
cctech 
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 7:58 AM
To: cct...@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (a...@alanlee.org)


> L series are combinatorial only.  You (or someone who has a working one)
> should be able to figure out a logic map by either running through all
> the input permutation or putting it in a reader that will do the same
> (vs reading the fuse data).
>
> -Alan
>
> Good luck.

unfortunately I don't have a working PAL, that's why I'm looking for the jedec 
file

Re: Kids these days...

[Eric Christopherson via cctalk]

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 11:44 AM William Donzelli via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Well, you said you pointed out the RFC to them...
>
> Did the page not smell fishy to you?
>
> --
> Will
>

It looked/sounded like typical IoT marketing speak to me :)


>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 12:14 PM geneb via cctalk 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, William Donzelli wrote:
> >
> > > It is a real company, but if you look into the SEC papers, there is a
> > > LOT of shady stuff there. Its sole job may be to move money in and out
> > > of the Ukraine.
> > >
> > Interesting.  I still don't see how I "fell" for something.
> >
> > g.
> >
> > --
> > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> > Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.
> >
> > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> > http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
>


-- 
Eric Christopherson

Re: Kids these days...

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

Oh, it is a legit company - the SEC filings could not faked on the
government website.

I went down a quick rabbit hole, and I saw things about the HQ being
in Kiev, 1000 to 1 stock splits, and so forth.

No one would ever invest in that company unless they specifically
wanted weird things to happen to their money in a sort-of-legal
half-ass paper trail sort of way.

--
Will

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 12:53 PM geneb  wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, William Donzelli wrote:
>
> > Well, you said you pointed out the RFC to them...
> >
> > Did the page not smell fishy to you?
> >
> No more so than normal.  They've got at least one "live" trademark going:
> http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc=4802:o29p87.2.1
>
> The dead "gopherinsight" mark was owned by an individual that used the
> same attorney as the live mark, so it's possible that it's a legit company
> powered by randomized buzzword bingo cards...
>
> g.
>
>
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.
>
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Kids these days...

[geneb via cctalk]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, William Donzelli wrote:


Well, you said you pointed out the RFC to them...

Did the page not smell fishy to you?


No more so than normal.  They've got at least one "live" trademark going:
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc=4802:o29p87.2.1

The dead "gopherinsight" mark was owned by an individual that used the 
same attorney as the live mark, so it's possible that it's a legit company 
powered by randomized buzzword bingo cards...


g.


--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Kids these days...

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

Well, you said you pointed out the RFC to them...

Did the page not smell fishy to you?

--
Will

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 12:14 PM geneb via cctalk  wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, William Donzelli wrote:
>
> > It is a real company, but if you look into the SEC papers, there is a
> > LOT of shady stuff there. Its sole job may be to move money in and out
> > of the Ukraine.
> >
> Interesting.  I still don't see how I "fell" for something.
>
> g.
>
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.
>
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Kids these days...

[geneb via cctalk]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, William Donzelli wrote:


It is a real company, but if you look into the SEC papers, there is a
LOT of shady stuff there. Its sole job may be to move money in and out
of the Ukraine.


Interesting.  I still don't see how I "fell" for something.

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Kids these days...

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

It is a real company, but if you look into the SEC papers, there is a
LOT of shady stuff there. Its sole job may be to move money in and out
of the Ukraine.

--
Will

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 12:01 PM geneb via cctalk  wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, William Donzelli wrote:
>
> > Wow, you fell hard...
> >
>
> Eh?  (don't top post!)

Adapt.

Re: Kids these days...

[geneb via cctalk]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019, William Donzelli wrote:


Wow, you fell hard...



Eh?  (don't top post!)

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Kids these days...

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

Wow, you fell hard...

--
Will

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 10:56 AM geneb via cctalk  wrote:
>
> Get a load of this:
> http://www.gopherprotocol.com
>
> I pointed them to RFC 1436 in case they haven't been paying attention.
>
> I eagerly await their next protocols, IPX and TCP/IP!
>
> g.
>
>
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.
>
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Kids these days...

[Will Cooke via cctalk]

> On June 10, 2019 at 9:56 AM geneb via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> 
> Get a load of this:
> http://www.gopherprotocol.com
> 

For me, the funniest part is the image of a PCB full of 16 pin 74LS chips in 
DIP packages -- that should REALLY change how people use "mobile" technology

Will

Kids these days...

[geneb via cctalk]

Get a load of this:
http://www.gopherprotocol.com

I pointed them to RFC 1436 in case they haven't been paying attention.

I eagerly await their next protocols, IPX and TCP/IP!

g.


--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Modems and external dialers.

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 at 15:51, Peter Corlett via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> Adding pockets ruins the look, or something.

Yup.

They're going beyond the realm of their own previous products into
such severe minimalism it's becoming inconvenient.

I want an LED to tell me my charge/power status, message status, etc.,
thank you. I want a physical home button. I want a physical headphone
socket. If you want me to buy a £1000 tablet, then I want multiple
ports, USB and Lightning or whatever. I want to connect a keyboard and
headphones and charge it all at once, thanks.

Since I can't have that, I bought a cheapo Chinese tablet instead, for
less than the cost of a second-hand iPad of similar spec. It does the
job.

It is very pleasant that I have come to a point in my life where I can
afford nice toys like a (second-hand) Retina iMac and what was still a
high-end iPhone when I got it (also 2nd hand).

However, so many features are disappearing from the newer models that
I am not sure they're going to keep me for long...

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: Modems and external dialers.

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 at 15:45, Peter Corlett via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> So long as said companies don't just make yet another Android device based on 
> a
> cheap-and-nasty Mediatek SOC which requires proprietary Android-only drivers 
> to
> work well, and then make misleading claims about Linux support.

Don't all phone chipsets require Android drivers?

And on that point, so does the RasPi.

> The Gemini's keyboard was very much a take-my-money-now feature when I saw it,
> but since it was being crowdfunded on Indiegogo, the platform for stuff too
> dodgy for Kickstarter, I decided to exercise caution and wait to see what, if
> anything, would be delivered. When they finally admitted it had a Mediatek
> chipset, I lost all interest. Been there, done that, never again.

You pays your money, etc. I'm quite happy with mine. I don't use it as
a phone but for taking notes at conferences and events, for instance,
it's _superb_.

> Planet are right now crowdfunding their new "Cosmo Communicator". They have
> apparently learned nothing as it also has a Mediatek chipset, and yet they
> continue to disingenuously claim Linux support. I shall be giving this one a
> wide berth too.

On their sales volumes, I think they have to go with whatever is cheap
and customisable on the Chinese market.

One of the sad things about the ARM market is that there is no
industry standard, no baseline to aim for. There isn't even standard
firmware. Lots of devices don't have firmware at all, so every Linux
port is a bare-metal thing, starting with hardware initialisation. A
year or 2 after it goes off the market, it's junk, as nothing will
support it any more.

ARM64 is trying to impose a requirement for UEFI, I believe, but [a]
the legions of cheap kit makers don't care and just ignore it, and [b]
UEFI is horrible.

> Third time lucky, eh? Maybe they should start talking to the Raspberry Pi
> people who actually know a thing or two about getting Linux working well on
> mobile chipsets.

Via big binary BLOBs, yeah, and a weird bootloader that means that the
GPU initialises the system and (I hear) retains some degree of control
over interrupts, making it more or less impossible to run a proper
hypervisor on the things.

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: Modems and external dialers.

[Peter Corlett via cctalk]

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 01:58:53PM +0200, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> Agreed again. My old Mac mini had a power LED. It pulsed softly when asleep.
> The iMac that has replaced it has nothing. I can't tell if it is on,
> off, asleep or what.
> The cost saving of this change must be too small to measure. :-)

Adding pockets ruins the look, or something.

They're not even charging "only" £54.99 for a Thunderbolt-to-power-LED dongle,
so this particular essential component wasn't removed for the usual reason.

Re: Modems and external dialers.

[Peter Corlett via cctalk]

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 01:57:34PM +0200, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> I just wish a few more companies thought like Planet Computers and tried to
> make devices for rich niches, rather than the cheap mass market...
> https://planetcom.squarespace.com/

So long as said companies don't just make yet another Android device based on a
cheap-and-nasty Mediatek SOC which requires proprietary Android-only drivers to
work well, and then make misleading claims about Linux support.

The Gemini's keyboard was very much a take-my-money-now feature when I saw it,
but since it was being crowdfunded on Indiegogo, the platform for stuff too
dodgy for Kickstarter, I decided to exercise caution and wait to see what, if
anything, would be delivered. When they finally admitted it had a Mediatek
chipset, I lost all interest. Been there, done that, never again.

Planet are right now crowdfunding their new "Cosmo Communicator". They have
apparently learned nothing as it also has a Mediatek chipset, and yet they
continue to disingenuously claim Linux support. I shall be giving this one a
wide berth too.

Third time lucky, eh? Maybe they should start talking to the Raspberry Pi
people who actually know a thing or two about getting Linux working well on
mobile chipsets.

Re: Modems and external dialers.

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 13:49, Stefan Skoglund  wrote:
>
> I also hate my samsung a5 mobile - the stupid thing
> doesnt have something which the two ericsson mobiles i used before (and
> a nokia and i believe a samsung to) had.
>
> Namely a small led which was on all the time. A great thing when
> you need to look for the damn things while it is dark.
>
> For example in the car or in bed or out in the nature inside a tent.
>
> Stupid little things...
>
> that little led usually changed colour when the battery became low.

Agreed again. My old Mac mini had a power LED. It pulsed softly when asleep.

The iMac that has replaced it has nothing. I can't tell if it is on,
off, asleep or what.

The cost saving of this change must be too small to measure. :-)

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: Modems and external dialers.

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 13:45, Stefan Skoglund  wrote:
>
> The economist wrote about this (
> https://www.economist.com/briefing/2019/06/08/how-the-pursuit-of-leisure-drives-internet-use
> )
>
> The current situation is this:
> it is much more important for Apple and Samsung to sell overpriced
> things to consumers which then basically only will be used to play
> games, look on sport games and youtube films.

Fair point.

And in the tropics, it is more important than ever that a device is
sealed, waterproof, has no moving parts, etc. -- to keep it tough.
Cheap & replaceable are more important than convenient and repairable.

> What you used the Psion for will only sell about 4 percent of apples
> volumes last year
> The screen of the machine i write this on, stands on a sun sparcstation
> 10.
> If i had that machine running well i would be as productive writing
> reports on that one as on the asus tower which i now uses.

I know what you mean, and I agree.

I just wish a few more companies thought like Planet Computers and
tried to make devices for rich niches, rather than the cheap mass
market...

https://planetcom.squarespace.com/


-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: SGI IRIX 6.5 Screen Savers (emulated Indy w/ 24-bit XL graphics) running in MAME

[Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk]

That is impressive! Is it close to real time we are seeing?

/P

On Thu, Jun 06, 2019 at 10:38:35AM -0700, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> pretty cool..
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6E0_qgfGGQ
> 

VCF Midwest: Hotel Reservations Open

[Jason T via cctalk]

After long delay, we can finally share the location of this year's
show!  Room registration is open and awaiting your reservation.  We've
got a new venue this year and that means a new table layout, which
we're hard at work on and will be posted Real Soon Now.  Then we can
start signing up exhibits and vendors.  Look for another announcement
email when we're ready to begin.

Here are the vital accommodation infos:

WHERE:  Waterford Banquets/Clarion Inn, 933 S. Riverside Drive, Elmhurst, IL
WHEN: September 14-15, 2019
HOW MUCH: We have a group rate of $109/night for single or double-bed rooms
RESERVATIONS: We have a direct link for our group code.  Note that the
dates default to the entire block (Wed-Mon) and you will have to
adjust them to your needs.
LINK: https://www.choicehotels.com/reservations/groups/gw24z4
OTHER STUFF: Please make use of our group code if you're staying with
us. Every room (and room-night) counts toward reducing our venue costs
and increases the chances of being invited back next year!  If you
book with AAA or another group plan, please let the hotel know that
you are attending VCF Midwest and they will credit your stay to our
block.

RESERVATIONS MUST BE MADE BY AUGUST 24, 2019! NO GROUP RATE WILL BE
HONORED AFTER THAT DATE!

Note: If the online form is not working or not giving you the group
rate, please call the hotel directly at 630-279-0700 before contacting
us!

Oh yes, we figured new location = new era = new website.  Besides,
some found the old site a bit unfriendly and primitive, what with all
that green monospace nonsense, like it's some kind of old computer or
something.  This new "interactive[1]" look is sure to impress.
Surely. nothing says "user-friendly" like... http://vcfmw.org

Thanks to all and we'll see you in September,

-j

[1] In that it's "not batch".