RE: IBM PC-RT 6150 looking for help
On Sat, 2019-06-15 at 12:00 -0500, cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org wrote: > > The hard disk seems to be stuck or the drives electronics are broken, > it > does not spin up. As these drives are quite rare, I'm looking for the > SCSI card (Model 6lX700l). Is it right, the PC-RT can boot off SCSI? > Hi. I have a suggestion. The generation of hard disks you are having trouble with frequently had a linear actuator and were auto-parking. If the parking function failed at power off, not an uncommon fault, the drive will fail to spin on power-on. An example of this sort of drive is the Seagate ST4096. The time-honored fix for this is to take the drive loose from all connections and, holding it in both hands with the face towards you, bring the face of the drive into your thigh as you raise your thigh to meet the face of the drive. The violence of this motion will serve to park the heads and the drive will spin right up when powered. I hope this solves your problem. Best of luck. Jeff
Definicon DSI-020 software?
I’ve recently come into a Definicon DSI-020 coprocessor card, and would like the software that goes with it. Does anyone know where to find it? There’s a zip file that claims to be the DSI-020 software, but it’s actually the DSI-32 software: The DSI-32 is an NS32032 coprocessor card, while the DSI-020 is an MC68020 coprocessor card. They published an awful lot of information about their cards in BYTE so the DSI-020 shouldn’t be difficult to reverse-engineer but it’d be nice not to have to… -- Chris
Re: Modems and external dialers.
On 6/16/19 4:26 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: :-o *Wow.* Did you at least compare it to NT? No. The machines were donated, they had the '98 OEM sticker on them, it kept everything legal. Seeing as how this was for a school, everything worked, and was stable for months at a time, we had no reason to change it. I had experience with NT 4.0 prior to that. But I / we felt no compulsion to change. I had NT boxes with uptimes of months with no special effort. 9x crashed if you gave it a stern look. In the trade we called it GameOS at the time. As a workstation, yes, '98 could be unstable. I have no idea how often they would reboot the workstations. But the server stayed up for weeks to months at a time. There was also the advantage that the server was the same as the workstations. Meaning that a teacher could do things on the server if they needed to. (I lived about an hour away.) Was it great or the best? Probably not. Did it work well enough? Yes. Did it fulfill their needs? Yes. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: 360/20 retrieval in Nuremberg (Was: No subject)
> From: Lawrence Wilkinson > Nothing to report other than what's at https://ibms360.co.uk Any partial results in trying to figure out a way to get all the stuff back from Nuremberg? You all may wind up having to rent a large truck yourselves, alas... Noel
Re: DEC KA650 VAX memory troubleshooting (video)
sorry, the technical manual actually, which has an architecture *chapter* http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/650/ The idea, eventually, is that I will publish my notes so that you wouldn't need the logic analyzer, at least for the 8MB board. I just had it hooked up, so I demoed it. The notes will include a mapping of bits and adresses to ICs so that you can narrow down which chip from just the ROM monitor. I don't have a 16MB board, but somebody could honestly probably figure out the mapping with a logic probe if they had to, just probe /cas while writing various test addresses, then check the data line while writing various test patterns. I also came up with some data that produces useful ECC bits, like all 1s, all 0s, one bit set only, and one bit clear only. That will also be in the notes when I write it up. On Sun, Jun 16, 2019, 3:25 AM Rob Jarratt wrote: > That is really interesting, sadly I don't have quite as much gear as you, > I only have a basic logic analyser, but I am not currently trying to fix a > MS650 memory board. You mentioned a KA650 architecture manual and you had a > PDF of it in the video. I couldn't find it on Manx? Where can I find it? > > Thanks > > Rob > > > -Original Message- > > From: cctech On Behalf Of Joe Zatarski > via > > cctech > > Sent: 16 June 2019 02:33 > > To: cct...@classiccmp.org > > Subject: DEC KA650 VAX memory troubleshooting (video) > > > > Hey Everyone, > > > > I just thought I'd share a video of how I'm going about troubleshooting > the > > bad DRAMs on my MS650 memory board. > > > > https://youtu.be/eDMhdAEFEgc > > > > I apologize for the shaky-cam, I don't have a tripod, and I needed to do > a lot > > of panning anyway. > > > > I will be sharing my notes on the MS650 once I have a chance to write > them > > up properly as well. I wasn't able to find a printset for the RAM card > itself, so I > > assume one doesn't exist in digital form yet. I have documented what bit > and > > memory range each DRAM on the card corresponds to, which may help > > someone troubleshooting in the future > > > > Regards, > > Joe Zatarski > >
Re:
On 16/06/19 8:58 AM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote: > Looks like the recent recovery in Germany had a precedent. These two happy > guys have lugged their 360 out of the > building BUT look at the extra they snagged with theirs, and in great > condition too! > https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1965-TORINO-Prototipo-auto-GIULIA-SPORT-Speciale-monitorato-da-IBM-System-360/283387708589 > > ;) I don't think it's mentioned in their blog, but there was also a disassembled Porsche 911 but that is being auctioned separately. They did give back the 911 crankshaft that somehow got mixed up with the mainframe bits. Nothing to report other than what's at https://ibms360.co.uk -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence at ljw.me.uk The IBM 360/30 page http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360
Software for Fairy YL-23 IC tester wanted
Hello fellow collectors, I have this Fairy YL-23 IC tester / programmer with ISA bus. http://matthieu.benoit.free.fr/Fairy_YL-23_Eprom_Programmer_resources_page.htm The problem: I have no documentation and no software for it. Can anyone help me getting PC software for it? Thanks in advance!Regards, Roland Huisman
RE: DEC KA650 VAX memory troubleshooting (video)
That is really interesting, sadly I don't have quite as much gear as you, I only have a basic logic analyser, but I am not currently trying to fix a MS650 memory board. You mentioned a KA650 architecture manual and you had a PDF of it in the video. I couldn't find it on Manx? Where can I find it? Thanks Rob > -Original Message- > From: cctech On Behalf Of Joe Zatarski via > cctech > Sent: 16 June 2019 02:33 > To: cct...@classiccmp.org > Subject: DEC KA650 VAX memory troubleshooting (video) > > Hey Everyone, > > I just thought I'd share a video of how I'm going about troubleshooting the > bad DRAMs on my MS650 memory board. > > https://youtu.be/eDMhdAEFEgc > > I apologize for the shaky-cam, I don't have a tripod, and I needed to do a lot > of panning anyway. > > I will be sharing my notes on the MS650 once I have a chance to write them > up properly as well. I wasn't able to find a printset for the RAM card > itself, so I > assume one doesn't exist in digital form yet. I have documented what bit and > memory range each DRAM on the card corresponds to, which may help > someone troubleshooting in the future > > Regards, > Joe Zatarski
Re: Software for Fairy YL-23 IC tester wanted
I'm looking for one of that for Apple II computers for AGES :) Congratulations for the incredible board!! ---8<---Corte aqui---8<--- http://www.tabajara-labs.blogspot.com http://www.tabalabs.com.br ---8<---Corte aqui---8<--- Em dom, 16 de jun de 2019 às 03:41, Roland via cctech escreveu: > Hello fellow collectors, > I have this Fairy YL-23 IC tester / programmer with ISA bus. > > http://matthieu.benoit.free.fr/Fairy_YL-23_Eprom_Programmer_resources_page.htm > The problem: I have no documentation and no software for it. > Can anyone help me getting PC software for it? > Thanks in advance!Regards, Roland Huisman > >
Re: One of the deeper dives into RISC vs CISC I've seen
On 6/16/19 8:17 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > Still, the basic idea of RISC still applies; make the CPU clock rate as fast > as > possible by making the instructions simple, and let software deal with the > resulting > issues. I'll mention in passing here that the goal of executing the maximum number of instructions per unit time is a bit of a red herring. What really matters is delivering the largest number of results per unit time. So SIMD ISAs can blow away scalar RISC implementations for certain classes of problems, which is why they've been part of multimedia for a long time now and are even part of ARM (e.g. Neon). --Chuck
Old DEC stuff in Bedford MA
There is an elderly gent in Bedford, MA that was a DEC dealer back in the day. The following inventory is what he has posted on a service I belong to. He is very deaf, and he can't hear me over the phone. He is open 9-5 M-F. Someone needs to go and dig. I don't think he knows where everything is anymore, and I don't think he can reach high places or lift medium-heavy things. Not affiliated with seller, etc. Charlie Burgess 119A Great Road Bedford, MA 01730-2720 781-275-6800 qei...@verizon.net 0132727 03-211265-0 06-888E7620 06-98805420 06-98826020 06141 10-09397-01 10-13102-00 10028002 10028102 10058100 10104 101066 10183/10184 109831-00L 11-10364 11/23-AW 11/34A-HC 11/730 11/750-CA 11/84-AC 1110 11130-DC 11150-CH 11213 11214 11592-906-1 117838-A 12-04403-01 12-09403-01 12-10152-0 12-11196-02 12-11477 12-11519 12-11563 12-11580-01 12-11581-00 12-11583-00 12-11583-01 12-12157-00 12-12199-00 12-12904-00 12-13097-00 12-13185-00 12-13186-00 12-13369-00 12-13686-00 12-14333-JO 12-14360-00 12-14614-02 12-15050-00 12-15292-00 12-1529600A 12-15297-00 12-15336-00 12-15336-08 12-15336-11 12-15360-00 12-15394-00 12-15558-00 12-15633-00 12-15663-00 12-16166-00 12-16166-02 12-16308-00 12-16391 12-16552 12-16827-00 12-17431-00 12-17431-01 12-17474-00 12-17606 12-18320 12-18416-00 12-18633-00 12-19245 12-19245-00 12-19245-01 12-19266 12-20267-01 12-22196-01 12-22196-02 12-22271-01 12-22707-01 12-23196-01 12-23607-04 12-23609-04 12-23609-11 12-23609-15 12-23609-19 12-23609-21 12-24701-10 12-26339-01 12-27591-01 12-28258-01 12-28508-01 12-29258-01 12-29635-01 12-30552-01 12-32022-01 12-32728-01 12-33626-01 12-35173-01 12-35759-01 12-39921-02 12-45246-03 120119-01 123 1351922 13C27A-30 1412DA 16-12256-0 16-12398 16-12497-01 16-1389700B 16-14110-00 16-17186-01 16-19001-01 1616-010 1632TTL 1664ATTL 17-000-82-0 17-4-00 17-00079-00 17-0008202D 17-00083-06 17-00083-10 17-00083-37 17-00083-49 17-00087-00 17-00100-00 17-00107-01 17-00193-00 17-00198-15 17-00233 17-00254-00 17-00254-01 17-00277-04 17-00280-00 17-00282-00 17-00282-01 17-00282-03 17-00284-00 17-00285-00 17-00285-02 17-00286 Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sa...@elecplus.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Re: One of the deeper dives into RISC vs CISC I've seen
I finally got around to reading that note. My principal reponse is that it got so far down into details that I couldn't see the larger picture any more. Going back to the original IBM 801 work, the RISC concept is very simple: to make the overall system as fast as possible; it did this by making the CPU cycle time as short as possible. This results in a CPU that is not as easy to work with; therefore the compiler has to be 'smarter'. In other words, engineering complexity is moved from the hardware to the software. This is an an acceptable tradeoff; the complexity in the software is not a recurring cost, whereas extra gates add cost to every machine produced. Moreover, while the more complex compiler may be more time-consuming to run, that cost is only paid once, whereas the efficiency of the binary is felt every time the program is run. Focusing on what features a CPU does or does not have in some ways misses the whole point of RISC: it's not about what specific features the CPU has, in isolation; it's about looking at the system as a whole, all the way up through the compilers, to maximize performance. I recall Tom Knight laying out the implication for CPU design very simply, in a seminar I took back when the idea had just come out: look at the CPU design, and find the longest signal path; this will set the lower limit on the clock time. Redesign to remove that path; since the capability that needed it will inevitably be used only part of the time, the execution increase caused by losing it will be outweighed by the speedup of all the other instructions. The other thing one needs to remember, talking about RISC, is that it's now been almost 40 years since the concept was devised (an eternity in the computing field), and the technology environment has changed drastically since then. So RISC has changed and adapted as that environment changed. Nowadays, when people throw a billion transistors at each CPU, the picture is somewhat different. Register widows were just the first instance of this sort of thing; we have this unused area of the chip, what can we put there? >> On 6/15/19 3:40 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: >> CISC design is now needed to handle the 'extended features'. ... RISC came >> along only because Compilers could only generate SIMPLE instructions, that >> matched the RISC format. No; compilers had been created that could use the more complex CISC instructions of, say, a VAX. RISC post-dated a lot of those developments, and had an entirely different point. > From: Chuck Guzis > For what it's worth, the number of instructions in the ISA does not define > RISC, but rather that the instructions execute quickly. Some RISC > implementations have large instruction sets. Right; what's reduced is the complexity of the instructions, which leads to the speedup which is the goal, not the number of them. In fact, a RISC CPU may actually have more instructions, e.g. separate ones for different cases, with the compiler being given the responsibility of picking the right one, instead of the CPU figuring it out as it goes. > RISC does carry a penalty in that you're executing more instructions to get > something done, so your code space is larger; but, you hopefully have them scheduled > such that the whole task runs faster. This in another aspect, which I've mentioned before, behind the rise of RISC, which is the changing size and speed of main memory, relative to the CPU. Simpler instructions are faster, but a given task will need more of them. This is acceptable if the memory can supply them fast enough. If the memory bandwidth is less, more complex instructions make sense, to get more out of the limited bandwidth. Also, if memory is of limited capacity, or expensive, then more complex instructions make sense, since more can be done with a fixed amount of memory. (The PDP-11 still scores very high in code density.) This too, however, has been overtaken by the march of technology. Still, the basic idea of RISC still applies; make the CPU clock rate as fast as possible by making the instructions simple, and let software deal with the resulting issues. Noel
Re: Modems and external dialers.
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 at 00:36, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > I too had a soft spot for Windows 98 Second Edition. I ran it for a > LONG time. > > I found it quite stable and used it for a server for a school in '99-'00 > before putting a Linux box in place the following year. > > They had 98SE, it worked, and I was able to get it stable for a lab of > ~20 other 98SE machines. :-o *Wow.* Did you at least compare it to NT? I had NT boxes with uptimes of months with no special effort. 9x crashed if you gave it a stern look. In the trade we called it GameOS at the time. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: List search option?
At 08:59 AM 16/06/2019 +0100, you wrote: >There is a more complete archive here (with search facility): > >https://marc.info/?l=classiccmp > >Matt https://marc.info/ My God. A firehose of firehoses.
Re: List search option?
On 16/06/2019 05:09, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > >> Yes, there is. It's mentioned in the email header of every posting. >> List-Archive: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ >> >> But there's no mention of a search facility. It would be useful. >> This kind of google search seems to work: url:classiccmp.org "Zane Healy" >> But whether it's ALL indexed; don't know. >> >> Guy > CLASSICCMP dates back to about 1996, that’s only a tiny portion. > > Zane There is a more complete archive here (with search facility): https://marc.info/?l=classiccmp Matt
[no subject]
Looks like the recent recovery in Germany had a precedent. These two happy guys have lugged their 360 out of the building BUT look at the extra they snagged with theirs, and in great condition too! https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1965-TORINO-Prototipo-auto-GIULIA-SPORT-Speciale-monitorato-da-IBM-System-360/283387708589 ;)
PDP-11/23 for sale in Portland OR
The system consists of: 1) a 19" rack-mountable CPU chassis 2) a 19" rack-mountable floppy-disk drive (and bootable RT-11 floppy-disks) 3) Zenith Z-29-A RS232 terminal The boards included are: M8186 KDF11-A 11/23 CPU ? 256KB parity RAM ? DSD-440 floppy disk interface ? bus grant continuity card M8028 DLV11-F Async interface M8012 BDV11 Bus terminator, bootstrap and diagnostic ROMs M8016 KPV11 Power fail, realtime clock, (termination) Also included are several 8" floppy disks with RT/11 and other system software. If interested, send me a message. Thanks, Scott
DEC KA650 VAX memory troubleshooting (video)
Hey Everyone, I just thought I'd share a video of how I'm going about troubleshooting the bad DRAMs on my MS650 memory board. https://youtu.be/eDMhdAEFEgc I apologize for the shaky-cam, I don't have a tripod, and I needed to do a lot of panning anyway. I will be sharing my notes on the MS650 once I have a chance to write them up properly as well. I wasn't able to find a printset for the RAM card itself, so I assume one doesn't exist in digital form yet. I have documented what bit and memory range each DRAM on the card corresponds to, which may help someone troubleshooting in the future Regards, Joe Zatarski
