Re: Estate sale

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

I know 8 items are getting harder to find, but I didn't know they were that
hard to find.
 I think I still have a few of each kind around here.

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 10:41 PM Ethan Dicks via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:15 PM Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk
>  wrote:
> > This link was posted on an Atari forum.  I noticed a PDP 8 faceplate, a
> > UNIVAC keyboard, and some other seriously retro parts.  Might want to
> >
> > Hit this link:
> >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-n9AUXZAiVw0nvht-JhD4IN8DMZWrAW7YCsS7gvFaP8/edit?fbclid=IwAR0t9_X5i_qC_k0lRZUvNyRLBXi98wn-MCBF6gT7lX1qR4vSYrPVAkvwZJk
>
> Hopefully someone can snag that PDP-8/a faceplate.  Those are not
> trivial to find.  Vince Slyngstad had to make a repo because the
> originals are too scarce now.
>
> I already have one.  I have to say that it's fun to watch but I
> haven't spent a lot of time punching the buttons.
>
> -ethan
>

Re: Estate sale

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:15 PM Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk
 wrote:
> This link was posted on an Atari forum.  I noticed a PDP 8 faceplate, a
> UNIVAC keyboard, and some other seriously retro parts.  Might want to
>
> Hit this link:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-n9AUXZAiVw0nvht-JhD4IN8DMZWrAW7YCsS7gvFaP8/edit?fbclid=IwAR0t9_X5i_qC_k0lRZUvNyRLBXi98wn-MCBF6gT7lX1qR4vSYrPVAkvwZJk

Hopefully someone can snag that PDP-8/a faceplate.  Those are not
trivial to find.  Vince Slyngstad had to make a repo because the
originals are too scarce now.

I already have one.  I have to say that it's fun to watch but I
haven't spent a lot of time punching the buttons.

-ethan

Re: Introduction and need help bringing some pdp11's back

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Hi Paul!

Pleasure to meet you. What kinds of things do you have?

What I would love to do is get the latest versions of RSX11/M+ up and 
running. I have compiler licenses for Fortran77 and Cobol81, but only 
11/M 4.1 and 4.0 media on RL02/01 packs.


C

On 10/29/2019 10:16 PM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote:

Hi Chris,

I have a lot of the parts you might need. Please feel free to contact me
off list

Thanks, Paul

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 11:28 AM Chris Zach via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


Hi all!

Re-subscribing to this list after a 20+ year "vacation" while raising
kids. I was pretty active in the Dec pdp10, pdp11, and pdp8 communities
back in the 80's and managed to acquire a lot of "stuff". Now that I
have some time and space again I'm looking back into the pile of "high
mass hobbies" and wondering what still works.

In terms of communities I see the pdp8-lovers list is still going but I
can't seem to find the pdp11 email list anymore. If anyone can add me
I'd appreciate.

On to the technical issues: I currently am trying to bring back online a
PDT11/150 and my main Q-Bus pdp11/73. The 11/150 is trying to boot but
it looks like my old disk with RT11 5.1 and the PD: boot driver is no
longer working. Does anyone have a copy of RT11 5.1 source disks they
can loan me (I can't find my set).

The 11/73 is a bit more interesting: It's an 11/73 quad height CPU, 4mb
of ram on a single DEC Q bus card, and for storage has an MTI ESDI
controller hooked up to a Fujitsu ESDI drive. After some workings I was
able to get the controller back online (hint: The password to get into
the controller to make changes is MTI) and while I can boot RT11 off one
of the two partitions my RSX11M 4.0 generated instance is flunking with
a boot error. Probably some disk rot.

I also have a RLV12 controller in it and a pair of RL02's sitting in a
closet here that I can drag upstairs with RSX111M 4.1 on them. Better
than nothing and might allow me to boot up and possibly run a disk
repair/regenerate the boot code on the EDSI disk. But that's not the
real problem.

The real problem is I'm trying to put an RQDX3 in there instead of the
ESDI controller so I can boot off RX50's. And I have no idea which way
all the various ribbon cables are supposed to go. Will any 50 pin cable
work between the RQDX3 and the BA23 distribution bulkhead? Anything
special about the 34ish pin cable that goes between the bulkhead and the
RX50? So far when I try to boot all devices DU0-3 give me not yet ready.

Ultimately I would like to format one of my MFM Maxtor drives as a RD54,
then install MicroRSX and MicroRSTS from floppy. For the big ESDI drive
I'd be happy getting that upgraded to RSX11M+ if I can find install
media and running it as a serious system.

I also have TK70's, and a couple of other oddball things here including
all the parts for BLT.AI.MIT.EDU (Sometimes called LSD), a RM80, an RX02
with a RXV11 controller, and a bunch of other weird stuff.

Anyway, will be interesting to see if I can get these going. If I can
get the 73 running the next step would be to get the 11/24 up and going,
then start working on the 2020...

CZ

On 10/29/2019 11:27 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 10/29/2019 09:45 AM, jos via cctalk wrote:



an IBM 4331 for 1000 Euro b.i.n. seems OK to me, if I was in that sort
of thing !

See  https://www.ebay.de/itm/IBM-grosrechner/184010116585 and his
other offerings...


WOW, this is some amazing stuff he has!

Jon

Re: Estate sale -- Univac Terminal Keyboard

[jim stephens via cctalk]

Someone really wanted a keyboard for a Univac Terminal in the last year, 
year and a half.  Added to subject line to maybe attract attention of 
who was searching.


Someone in Europe though, IIRC?
thanks
Jim

On 10/29/2019 7:15 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote:

This link was posted on an Atari forum.  I noticed a PDP 8 faceplate, a
UNIVAC keyboard, and some other seriously retro parts.  Might want to

Hit this link:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-n9AUXZAiVw0nvht-JhD4IN8DMZWrAW7YCsS7gvFaP8/edit?fbclid=IwAR0t9_X5i_qC_k0lRZUvNyRLBXi98wn-MCBF6gT7lX1qR4vSYrPVAkvwZJk

Jeff

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 4:38 PM Rich Alderson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> From: Liam Proven
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 10:01 AM
>
> > On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 17:32, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
> >  wrote:
>
> >> 50 years ago, inter-computer communication was common enough that it was
> >> a standard option in most vendors' catalogs.
>
> >> Maybe you've got a digit wrong?
>
> > Tim Berners-Lee says it's the 50th anniversary of the first internet
> > packets. I believe him more than pretty much anyone.
>
> > It's also in multiple computer news stories today.
>
> > The historic event was comms between heterogenous computers over a
> > standardised protocol (IP, I think).
>
> Internet Protocol (IP) was developed in the very late 1970s, with the
> cutover
> of the ARPANET taking place 1/1/83.
>
> Prior to that, the underlying protocol was the one developed by Kleinrock
> et al.
> for the BBN IMP hardware.
>

NCP was the immediate predecessor of TCP/IP. Was that the datagram format,
more or less, 50 years ago?

Warner


> Quit splitting hairs, folks.
>
> New to this list, are you?
>
> Rich
>

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[allison via cctalk]

On 10/29/19 8:50 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. via cctalk wrote:
> We celebrated the 40th anniversary of the Internet less than 2 years
> ago:
> 
>> https://computerhistory.org/blog/born-in-a-van-happy-40th-birthday-to-the-internet/
> 
> The ARPAnet was a WAN (wide area network) and not an Internet, but it
> was one of the three networks involved in that first test on November
> 22, 1977 (after a two network test the previous year). The option to use
> TCP/IP in addition to the native NCP became popular on the ARPAnet to
> the point that NCP was turned off in 1983. It was hardly the only
> network to get assimilated into the Internet, but it was the one with
> the most impact. That makes the 50th anniversary of the first ARPAnet
> packet an important milestone in Internet pre-history.
> 
> -- Jecel
> 

The whole story of what was going on was far more complex and interesting.

Funny thing was DECnet was in 1983 the largest world wide network
period.  By then is was well over 300 nodes and climbing fast.
And none of it used IP or NCP though it did transport P packets
encapsulated using DECnet.  A lot of DEC hardware was involved
in the DARPA/Arpanet.

The network wars were warming up about then (1982ish) and it
would take till the late 80s early 90s for IP to win that war.
The big explosion was WWW.

Other names or routable networks, Banyan vines, and IPX come
to mind besides DECNET Phase III and IV.

Allison

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On 10/29/19 5:50 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. via cctalk wrote:

The ARPAnet was a WAN (wide area network) and not an Internet, but it
was one of the three networks involved in that first test on November
22, 1977 (after a two network test the previous year). The option to use
TCP/IP in addition to the native NCP became popular on the ARPAnet to
the point that NCP was turned off in 1983. It was hardly the only
network to get assimilated into the Internet, but it was the one with
the most impact. That makes the 50th anniversary of the first ARPAnet
packet an important milestone in Internet pre-history.



On Tue, 29 Oct 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

Doesn't AUTODIN precede ARPAnet by a few years?


How did Licklider's "Intergalactic Network" fit in?


And, was that a factor in Gary Kildall's choosing the name "Intergalactic 
Digital Research"?



Or, was everything beyond what was current called "intergalactic"?

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[allison via cctalk]

On 10/29/19 8:21 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>>> The first "internet" packet was certainly a significant event.
> 
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2019, Paul Koning wrote:
>> Indeed.  So "remote communication between heterogeneous computers"
>> would probably be a good description.
> 
> not so sure, . . . I think that there had been others.  BUT, first with
> the IP protocol, . . .

Maybe so, likely UUCP first.  IP networks were a thing that sorta grew
as standard developed.  Either way it was well before the late 70s.

Also Aloha-net was when?  I thought that was the first wide area network
that also used radios for links.

Generally "first" works if your specific enough.  But in the old
Arpanet days if you said that on a list and were incomplete or wrong
you got your head handed to you upside down.  Sometimes gently, maybe.
;-)

Allison

> 
>> I'm not sure it's "bogus" but you have to understand the qualifiers.
>> Columbus is a good example, because it's well known that other
>> Europeans traveled to America quite some time before he did.  However,
>> those earlier visits made no lasting impression on history, while the
>> one Columbus made did.
> 
> so, . . .
> "first" means earliest that WE are aware of, . . . "first" means the one
> that our schoolbooks talk about, . . . Being in the history books may
> mean "most important", but not "first"; the textbooks in the schools are
> astonishingly inaccurate.  And, yes, some of them are going to say that
> Steve Jobs invented computers.
> 
>> But it was first in the same sense that the Vikings were first to
>> America.
> 
> There were some Asians? quite a bit earlier.  The residents did not
> evolve here.

Re: Estate sale

[Mark Linimon via cctalk]

Any hints about where in the world this is?

mcl

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/29/19 5:50 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. via cctalk wrote:

> The ARPAnet was a WAN (wide area network) and not an Internet, but it
> was one of the three networks involved in that first test on November
> 22, 1977 (after a two network test the previous year). The option to use
> TCP/IP in addition to the native NCP became popular on the ARPAnet to
> the point that NCP was turned off in 1983. It was hardly the only
> network to get assimilated into the Internet, but it was the one with
> the most impact. That makes the 50th anniversary of the first ARPAnet
> packet an important milestone in Internet pre-history.

Doesn't AUTODIN precede ARPAnet by a few years?

--Chuck

Re: Introduction and need help bringing some pdp11's back

[allison via cctalk]

On 10/29/19 8:37 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
>> I assume your building up a Qbus PDP-11.
> 
> Yup. They're easier to get going for starters and since I got rid of the
> 11/44 the fastest system I've got.

I like them for the many flavors of CPU and and possible configurations.
I have a few really one of every possible base PDP-11 and a few MicroVax
cpus.

> 
>> To go from RQDX3 to any drive you need a distrbution panel as used in
>> BA23 or M9058 distribution board usually used in BA123.
> 
> Yup, got one of those in the BA23. Oh, are the floppies DU0/DU1 with the
> disk drive DU2 or is it different?

Memory test.  Look up the standard jumpers. Should be in the MicroPDP-11
handbook or slipcase doc set.

>> The M9058 can plug in to any general slot in Qbus for power and does not
>> past interrupt or DMA grant.  Bottom/end of the bus is fine.
> 
> Interesting, I didn't realize the RQDX series boards didn't use
> interrupts or DMA. Does the CPU just poll them endlessly?

Oh yes they do!   The breakout board m9058 is a dumb beast.
The RQDX3 is M7555.

And yes you can put a RQDX3 and M9058 in a BA23 for a three drive system
using half height drives (two st225 or st250 and a RX33).  That is not
documented but works just fine.

>> Then you need a 50 wide cable from RQDX3 to the distribution board and
>> the cable to match floppy from the distribution board (usually 34 wide).
> 
> Got that. The floppy cable I have has a twist between the second and
> third plugs, but I'm using the straight section only.

The twisted cables are for PCs only the rest of the world never did
that.  Reason if you did it the normal way you could have up to four
drives (but you had to setup the jumper/dip-switches) the twisted scheme
maxed at 2 (no setup as both drive were the same).

>> Jumper details are up to  you to slug out but I have two systems using
>> the RQDX3 and M9058.  I also have the Micro PDP-11 using the ba23
>> distribution.   Don't ask right now I can not get to them for the next
>> month.  Drive jumpers have to be correct.
> 
> For the RX50's were there any jumpers? If I'm still fiddling with this
> in a month I might ask for a pic of the configuration.

If no one played with the RX50s (and they actually work) it should be
plug and play. About half the RX50s I see are not functional and that
was more than 25 years ago and it cannot have gotten better.  Ir you
end up with a pile you can play mix and match and maybe get lucky.

Yes I believe two of them one being drive select.  Right now I can maybe
touch them, open them up for PICs, your kidding. ;)

I'm overhauling space (one 10x14 room) that has both lab, office and
ham radio... and a 50" rack of PDP11/73, BA123 MicoVAXII, and 10
Microvax3100s of multiple flavors, 2 MV2000s (one to format media and
the other runs ultrix 4.2) plus a few Linux PCs to do day to day stuff.
Then there is the S100 collection.

>> All of this is in the various manuals but no single one!
> 
> The RQDX3 was kind of out of my price zone the last time I worked on
> this stuff. The ESDI controller is extremely fast (and does elevator
> seeks so it rocks on RSX11) but doesn't have floppy support.
> 
> I'll see if I can dig out/find any of my RQDX1 boards to cross-check the
> RQDX3. Any of them should be able to run a RX50 (and lord be told I have
> RD52 and RD53 drives around here)
> \

RQDX1 is in compatable with RQDX3 formatted RD disks!  best leave that
one alone.

I was lucky being both Ex-Digit (former dec) and in the immediate area
so finding stuff years ago was easy and free.  Long since dried up.

best advice is get DOCs, as much and varied of the QBUS PDP-11 family
and the various packaged systems as you can find or on line. Oh the
nasty part, you will have to actually read them to find a lot of the
details.

Allison

Re: Introduction and need help bringing some pdp11's back

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

Hi Chris,

I have a lot of the parts you might need. Please feel free to contact me
off list

Thanks, Paul

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 11:28 AM Chris Zach via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> Re-subscribing to this list after a 20+ year "vacation" while raising
> kids. I was pretty active in the Dec pdp10, pdp11, and pdp8 communities
> back in the 80's and managed to acquire a lot of "stuff". Now that I
> have some time and space again I'm looking back into the pile of "high
> mass hobbies" and wondering what still works.
>
> In terms of communities I see the pdp8-lovers list is still going but I
> can't seem to find the pdp11 email list anymore. If anyone can add me
> I'd appreciate.
>
> On to the technical issues: I currently am trying to bring back online a
> PDT11/150 and my main Q-Bus pdp11/73. The 11/150 is trying to boot but
> it looks like my old disk with RT11 5.1 and the PD: boot driver is no
> longer working. Does anyone have a copy of RT11 5.1 source disks they
> can loan me (I can't find my set).
>
> The 11/73 is a bit more interesting: It's an 11/73 quad height CPU, 4mb
> of ram on a single DEC Q bus card, and for storage has an MTI ESDI
> controller hooked up to a Fujitsu ESDI drive. After some workings I was
> able to get the controller back online (hint: The password to get into
> the controller to make changes is MTI) and while I can boot RT11 off one
> of the two partitions my RSX11M 4.0 generated instance is flunking with
> a boot error. Probably some disk rot.
>
> I also have a RLV12 controller in it and a pair of RL02's sitting in a
> closet here that I can drag upstairs with RSX111M 4.1 on them. Better
> than nothing and might allow me to boot up and possibly run a disk
> repair/regenerate the boot code on the EDSI disk. But that's not the
> real problem.
>
> The real problem is I'm trying to put an RQDX3 in there instead of the
> ESDI controller so I can boot off RX50's. And I have no idea which way
> all the various ribbon cables are supposed to go. Will any 50 pin cable
> work between the RQDX3 and the BA23 distribution bulkhead? Anything
> special about the 34ish pin cable that goes between the bulkhead and the
> RX50? So far when I try to boot all devices DU0-3 give me not yet ready.
>
> Ultimately I would like to format one of my MFM Maxtor drives as a RD54,
> then install MicroRSX and MicroRSTS from floppy. For the big ESDI drive
> I'd be happy getting that upgraded to RSX11M+ if I can find install
> media and running it as a serious system.
>
> I also have TK70's, and a couple of other oddball things here including
> all the parts for BLT.AI.MIT.EDU (Sometimes called LSD), a RM80, an RX02
> with a RXV11 controller, and a bunch of other weird stuff.
>
> Anyway, will be interesting to see if I can get these going. If I can
> get the 73 running the next step would be to get the 11/24 up and going,
> then start working on the 2020...
>
> CZ
>
> On 10/29/2019 11:27 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> > On 10/29/2019 09:45 AM, jos via cctalk wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> an IBM 4331 for 1000 Euro b.i.n. seems OK to me, if I was in that sort
> >> of thing !
> >>
> >> See  https://www.ebay.de/itm/IBM-grosrechner/184010116585 and his
> >> other offerings...
> >>
> > WOW, this is some amazing stuff he has!
> >
> > Jon
>

Estate sale

[Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk]

This link was posted on an Atari forum.  I noticed a PDP 8 faceplate, a
UNIVAC keyboard, and some other seriously retro parts.  Might want to 

Hit this link:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-n9AUXZAiVw0nvht-JhD4IN8DMZWrAW7YCsS7gvFaP8/edit?fbclid=IwAR0t9_X5i_qC_k0lRZUvNyRLBXi98wn-MCBF6gT7lX1qR4vSYrPVAkvwZJk

Jeff

Re: Introduction and need help bringing some pdp11's back

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Ok, first hurdle is down. In reading the RQDX3 Controller Module Users 
Guide it shows that for a BA23 the 50 pin cable goes down under the Q 
bus chassis then loops straight up into the RQDX3. Which is impossible 
to do with a modern (hee hee!) 50 pin SCSI ribbon cable as the cable 
keys are set up so that it would not be possible to plug the cable into 
the RQDX3 without inverting it (Because DEC likes to sell their cables 
with upside-down keys). However 30 seconds with a flush cutting pliers 
allowed me to remove the cam/key from the cable connector and plug it 
into the RQDX3.


System is now booting up off the floppy. Good step forward. I'll shut it 
down for now, and get a XXDP+ floppy from Ebay. That should allow me to 
format a Maxtor RD54 drive and get this thing up to steam.


Bit of progress. Thanks all! :-)

CZ

On 10/29/2019 9:53 PM, allison via cctalk wrote:

On 10/29/19 9:34 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:


On 29/10/2019 20:37, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:

The M9058 can plug in to any general slot in Qbus for power and does not

past interrupt or DMA grant.  Bottom/end of the bus is fine.


Interesting, I didn't realize the RQDX series boards didn't use
interrupts or DMA. Does the CPU just poll them endlessly?


RQDX1 and 2 did not pass them but used them. (Maybe not NPG)  I believe
the RQDX3 did, however.

Nigel



Ok for the edification of all.  The M9058 IS NOT the RQDX3 board,
It is the breakout board used with The RQDX2 or 3.  What the M9058 needs
power for, it adds additional decodes to address up to 4 RD drives
or 4 floppies, the total is four if mixed so the usual was 3 RDs and 1
floppy usually RX50 or later RX33.

All RQDX3 pass grants, some later version RQDX2s pass grants.

The RQDX3 with either breakout board can interface RD50 through RD54
MFM disks and RX50, RX33, as well as RX23 depending on revision level
and system software.

The RQDX2 is an earlier quad width and ther eare at least three versions
(firmware and board revisions) will work with All of the RDs 50 through
54 but only RX50 and later RX33.

How do I know?

MicroVaxII in BA23
MicrovaxII/GPX in BA123
MicroPDP-11 in BA23 pedestal stand
BA11 PDP-11/23 (with smaller ABCD backplane)
BA11 PDP11/23B (18 slot backplane)
BA11 PDP11/73  (18 slot backplane)

All of winch have RQDX3 or late version RQDX2 (BA11 11/23)
with the BA23 breakout board or M9058 (standard config is BA123).

Not all of those are "supported configuration" but the docs
describe them and the setup is straight forward.

Allison




Nigel Johnson

MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route
from me to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable
by any number of system administrators along the way.
    Nigel Johnson 

     Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to
print this message

Re: Introduction and need help bringing some pdp11's back

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Oh the 9058 is the "Q Bus" card with the 50 pin breakout to 34 pin and 
20 pin lines for the various drives. That's not the RQDX3, and I don't 
need that since I have the BA23 with a bulkhead connector.


And yes, I do remember nothing could be after a RQDX1 or 2 so they had 
to be in the last unused slot on the box with a grant card needed if the 
slot above and to the right was open. They do use DMA/NPG.


Off to look up the jumper settings and see if this RQDX3 is configured 
properly


CZ

On 10/29/2019 9:34 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:


On 29/10/2019 20:37, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:

The M9058 can plug in to any general slot in Qbus for power and does not

past interrupt or DMA grant.  Bottom/end of the bus is fine.


Interesting, I didn't realize the RQDX series boards didn't use 
interrupts or DMA. Does the CPU just poll them endlessly?


RQDX1 and 2 did not pass them but used them. (Maybe not NPG)  I believe 
the RQDX3 did, however.


Nigel



Nigel Johnson

MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route 
from me to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable 
by any number of system administrators along the way.

    Nigel Johnson 

Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to 
print this message

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Jecel Assumpcao Jr. via cctalk]

We celebrated the 40th anniversary of the Internet less than 2 years
ago:

> https://computerhistory.org/blog/born-in-a-van-happy-40th-birthday-to-the-internet/

The ARPAnet was a WAN (wide area network) and not an Internet, but it
was one of the three networks involved in that first test on November
22, 1977 (after a two network test the previous year). The option to use
TCP/IP in addition to the native NCP became popular on the ARPAnet to
the point that NCP was turned off in 1983. It was hardly the only
network to get assimilated into the Internet, but it was the one with
the most impact. That makes the 50th anniversary of the first ARPAnet
packet an important milestone in Internet pre-history.

-- Jecel

Re: Introduction and need help bringing some pdp11's back

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Oh yes. If you could drop David an email with my email I'd appreciate it.

C

On 10/29/2019 2:50 PM, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote:

Chris Zach wrote:


Maryland


I'm in Maryland, but not much into dec.  You may remember David Gesswein, he's 
here in MD as well.  The MARCH group is technically in New Jersey, but most of 
us down here belong to that as well.

Bill S.

Re: Introduction and need help bringing some pdp11's back

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

I assume your building up a Qbus PDP-11.


Yup. They're easier to get going for starters and since I got rid of the 
11/44 the fastest system I've got.



To go from RQDX3 to any drive you need a distrbution panel as used in
BA23 or M9058 distribution board usually used in BA123.


Yup, got one of those in the BA23. Oh, are the floppies DU0/DU1 with the 
disk drive DU2 or is it different?



The M9058 can plug in to any general slot in Qbus for power and does not
past interrupt or DMA grant.  Bottom/end of the bus is fine.


Interesting, I didn't realize the RQDX series boards didn't use 
interrupts or DMA. Does the CPU just poll them endlessly?



Then you need a 50 wide cable from RQDX3 to the distribution board and
the cable to match floppy from the distribution board (usually 34 wide).


Got that. The floppy cable I have has a twist between the second and 
third plugs, but I'm using the straight section only.



Jumper details are up to  you to slug out but I have two systems using
the RQDX3 and M9058.  I also have the Micro PDP-11 using the ba23
distribution.   Don't ask right now I can not get to them for the next
month.  Drive jumpers have to be correct.


For the RX50's were there any jumpers? If I'm still fiddling with this 
in a month I might ask for a pic of the configuration.



All of this is in the various manuals but no single one!


The RQDX3 was kind of out of my price zone the last time I worked on 
this stuff. The ESDI controller is extremely fast (and does elevator 
seeks so it rocks on RSX11) but doesn't have floppy support.


I'll see if I can dig out/find any of my RQDX1 boards to cross-check the 
RQDX3. Any of them should be able to run a RX50 (and lord be told I have 
RD52 and RD53 drives around here)

\

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

The first "internet" packet was certainly a significant event.


On Tue, 29 Oct 2019, Paul Koning wrote:
Indeed.  So "remote communication between heterogeneous computers" would 
probably be a good description.


not so sure, . . . I think that there had been others.  BUT, first with 
the IP protocol, . . .


I'm not sure it's "bogus" but you have to understand the qualifiers. 
Columbus is a good example, because it's well known that other Europeans 
traveled to America quite some time before he did.  However, those 
earlier visits made no lasting impression on history, while the one 
Columbus made did.


so, . . .
"first" means earliest that WE are aware of, . . . 
"first" means the one that our schoolbooks talk about, . . . 
Being in the history books may mean "most important", but not "first"; the 
textbooks in the schools are astonishingly inaccurate.  And, yes, some of 
them are going to say that Steve Jobs invented computers.


But it was first in the same sense that the Vikings were first to 
America.


There were some Asians? quite a bit earlier.  The residents did not evolve 
here.

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Oct 29, 2019, at 3:40 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> ...
> 
> The first "internet" packet was certainly a significant event.

Indeed.  So "remote communication between heterogeneous computers" would 
probably be a good description. 

> But, calling it "The first inter-computer communication" is comparable to 
> saying that Columbus was the first to think that the world was round and 
> discovered America, or that Ford invented the automobile, or that Bill Gates 
> invented software or at least operating systems, or that Steve Jobs invented 
> computers.

Certainly multiple computers were interconnected quite some time before, at 
least within a room.  Multi-mainframe computers such as CDC 6000 series, not to 
mention CPU to PPU in those same machines.  Large computers with smaller ones 
as communication front ends going back at least to the mid 1960s (EL-X8 with 
PDP-8 front end, "Wammes" timesharing system).  And so on.

> ...
> "First"s are usually expanded into things that they aren't, and almost always 
> fail to acknowledge those less "famous" who were already doing it.
> 
> OK, I claim to be the first to say "first" is a bogus way to describe any 
> historical event.  It is how non-historians fail to comprehend historians.

I'm not sure it's "bogus" but you have to understand the qualifiers.  Columbus 
is a good example, because it's well known that other Europeans traveled to 
America quite some time before he did.  However, those earlier visits made no 
lasting impression on history, while the one Columbus made did.

There are other examples.  I'm playing with one right now, the invention of FM. 
 Usually attributed to Edwin Armstrong, who indeed was first in the way 
Columbus was.  But a different system for sending FM was invented in 1919 in 
Holland and used for 5 years for a commercial broadcasting station.  That 
particular system then disappeared and was never used again.  But it was first 
in the same sense that the Vikings were first to America.

paul

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/29/19 4:19 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

> None of the objections to "first inter computer communication" should
> diminish the importance of the "first packet of the internet".  It was
> surely a moment of rejoicing when it finally worked.

I suspect that the first inter-computer communication occurred during
the 1930s or thereabouts when one Langley employee asked another if
she'd like to have lunch.

--Chuck

RE: 50 yrs. ago today

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Maybe you've got a digit wrong?


On Tue, 29 Oct 2019, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote:

500 years ago?  A pair of abaci (or abacuses?) linked with strings?


It has been said that when more digits were needed, that two abaci were 
put together, . . .


"a digit wrong" could also mean 60 or 70 instead of 50

There is nothing to indicate that the Antikythera had any communications 
capabilities.


The first known documented use of "computer" in English is 400 years ago.
In those days, it was somebody who computes.  Now, it is something that 
computes.


BUT, if we drop the English ethnocentricity, Pliny the elder said,
"latitudo sane computetur", referring to computing the size of Asia.
And from there, quite likely some unrecorded references to the "computers" 
doing the computing.


Among people who compute[d], there was certainly communication.
There must have been inter-computer communication, or where would little 
computers come from?


The "first" commercial modem is stated as being 1962.  But, there were 
plenty of computers directly connected to each other before that.



None of the objections to "first inter computer communication" should 
diminish the importance of the "first packet of the internet".  It was 
surely a moment of rejoicing when it finally worked.



--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

The first inter-computer  communication happened 50 years ago today. L.
Kleinrock part of that historic moment, said, and I paraphrase here,
ARPANET was the instrument that was to enable computers to talk to each
other remotely. He sent ~@~\LO~@~] because the system crashed(how

surprising was
that!) This was the precursor to the inter-net, moving from the 

intra-net.

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

Tim Berners-Lee says it's the 50th anniversary of the first internet
packets. I believe him more than pretty much anyone.
It's also in multiple computer news stories today.
The historic event was comms between heterogenous computers over a
standardised protocol (IP, I think).
Quit splitting hairs, folks.


The first "internet" packet was certainly a significant event.

But, calling it "The first inter-computer communication" is comparable to 
saying that Columbus was the first to think that the world was round and 
discovered America, or that Ford invented the automobile, or that Bill 
Gates invented software or at least operating systems, or that Steve Jobs 
invented computers.


Some may beg to differ, or point out that those are not accurate 
descriptions of the events.


"First"s are usually expanded into things that they aren't, and almost 
always fail to acknowledge those less "famous" who were already doing it.



OK, I claim to be the first to say "first" is a bogus way to describe any 
historical event.  It is how non-historians fail to comprehend historians.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/29/19 12:11 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:

> The historic event was comms between heterogenous computers over a
> standardised protocol (IP, I think

So, more properly--50 years of IP?

--Chuck

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[dwight via cctalk]

Until recently, a computer was a person that did calculations. I suspect that 
if they we smart enough to do the calculations they were smart enough to talk 
to each other.
Dwight


From: cctalk  on behalf of ED SHARPE via cctalk 

Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 12:11 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Re: 50 yrs. ago today

I will have to see if our  old next  boots!  -Ed#

In a message dated 10/29/2019 10:01:21 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
Tim Berners-Lee says it's the 50th anniversary of the first internet
packets. I believe him more than pretty much anyone.

It's also in multiple computer news stories today.

The historic event was comms between heterogenous computers over a
standardised protocol (IP, I think

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/29/19 11:39 AM, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:

> 
> New to this list, are you?
> 


EVERYONE knows that Steve Jobs invented the microcomputer and Nikola
Tesla invented alternating current.

--Chuck

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/29/19 11:53 AM, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote:
> Chuck Guzis wrote
>> 50 years ago, inter-computer communication was common enough that it was
>> a standard option in most vendors' catalogs.
>>
>> Maybe you've got a digit wrong?
> 
> 500 years ago?  A pair of abaci (or abacuses?) linked with strings?

I wonder if computer-to-computer connection dates back 70 years. (5->7)
Same number digits, just one of them changed.

--Chuck

Re: [cctalk] First transistors

[Gregory Beat via cctalk]

Jack Ward would be happy to include in the museum collection.
http://semiconductormuseum.com/Museum_Index.htm

Helped Jack over a decade ago, to document the usage of transistors in Explorer 
I.  He did oral history interview with Dr. George Ludwig before he passed in 
2013.
http://semiconductormuseum.com/Museum_Index.htm#ORAL_HISTORIES

gb

RE: 50 yrs. ago today

[Rich Alderson via cctalk]

From: Liam Proven
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 10:01 AM

> On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 17:32, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
>  wrote:

>> 50 years ago, inter-computer communication was common enough that it was
>> a standard option in most vendors' catalogs.

>> Maybe you've got a digit wrong?

> Tim Berners-Lee says it's the 50th anniversary of the first internet
> packets. I believe him more than pretty much anyone.

> It's also in multiple computer news stories today.

> The historic event was comms between heterogenous computers over a
> standardised protocol (IP, I think).

Internet Protocol (IP) was developed in the very late 1970s, with the cutover
of the ARPANET taking place 1/1/83.

Prior to that, the underlying protocol was the one developed by Kleinrock et al.
for the BBN IMP hardware.

> Quit splitting hairs, folks.

New to this list, are you?

Rich

Re: Introduction and need help bringing some pdp11's back

[allison via cctalk]

On 10/29/19 2:13 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:
> On 29/10/2019 16:28, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
>> The real problem is I'm trying to put an RQDX3 in there instead of the
>> ESDI controller so I can boot off RX50's. And I have no idea which way
>> all the various ribbon cables are supposed to go. Will any 50 pin
>> cable work between the RQDX3 and the BA23 distribution bulkhead?
>> Anything special about the 34ish pin cable that goes between the
>> bulkhead and the RX50? So far when I try to boot all devices DU0-3
>> give me not yet ready.
> 
> Welcome back!
> 

I assume your building up a Qbus PDP-11.

To go from RQDX3 to any drive you need a distrbution panel as used in
BA23 or M9058 distribution board usually used in BA123.

The M9058 can plug in to any general slot in Qbus for power and does not
past interrupt or DMA grant.  Bottom/end of the bus is fine.

Then you need a 50 wide cable from RQDX3 to the distribution board and
the cable to match floppy from the distribution board (usually 34 wide).

FYI that combo works with RX50, RX33 (teac FD55GFR) , and RX23 (3.5"
floppy).

The most desirable drive is the RX33 as it stores more and faster
plus makes it easier to write a disk from a PC.

Jumper details are up to  you to slug out but I have two systems using
the RQDX3 and M9058.  I also have the Micro PDP-11 using the ba23
distribution.   Don't ask right now I can not get to them for the next
month.  Drive jumpers have to be correct.

If the cables are upside down you break nothing but noting works.
Hint flip only one end!

All of this is in the various manuals but no single one!

Allisonn

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

I will have to see if our  old next  boots!  -Ed#

In a message dated 10/29/2019 10:01:21 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
Tim Berners-Lee says it's the 50th anniversary of the first internet
packets. I believe him more than pretty much anyone.

It's also in multiple computer news stories today.

The historic event was comms between heterogenous computers over a
standardised protocol (IP, I think

RE: 50 yrs. ago today

[William Sudbrink via cctalk]

Chuck Guzis wrote
> 50 years ago, inter-computer communication was common enough that it was
> a standard option in most vendors' catalogs.
> 
> Maybe you've got a digit wrong?

500 years ago?  A pair of abaci (or abacuses?) linked with strings?


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

RE: Introduction and need help bringing some pdp11's back

[William Sudbrink via cctalk]

Chris Zach wrote:

> Maryland

I'm in Maryland, but not much into dec.  You may remember David Gesswein, he's 
here in MD as well.  The MARCH group is technically in New Jersey, but most of 
us down here belong to that as well.

Bill S.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Introduction and need help bringing some pdp11's back

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 29/10/2019 16:28, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
The real problem is I'm trying to put an RQDX3 in there instead of the 
ESDI controller so I can boot off RX50's. And I have no idea which way 
all the various ribbon cables are supposed to go. Will any 50 pin cable 
work between the RQDX3 and the BA23 distribution bulkhead? Anything 
special about the 34ish pin cable that goes between the bulkhead and the 
RX50? So far when I try to boot all devices DU0-3 give me not yet ready.


Welcome back!

No, there's nothing special about either the 50-way ribbon cable or the 
34-way ribbon cable.  Just don't use a PC-style floppy cable with a 
twist in it.  DEC did it the way God (and Alan Shugart) intended.  But 
which distribution bulkhead have you got?  I assume not an M9058, 
because that's a card with lots of options that goes in a Q-bus 
backplane and wants jumpers setting.


Either way, you might find this file helpful if you want to work out 
what's going where:

http://www.dunnington.info/public/RQDX/RQDXn_pinout.pdf
and maybe even a glance at this one:
http://www.dunnington.info/public/RQDX/M9058_schematic.pdf
because it shows the relationship between the connectors and the signals 
a bit better.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: Introduction and need help bringing some pdp11's back

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Maryland

On October 29, 2019 1:41:27 PM EDT, Bill Degnan via cctalk 
 wrote:
>On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 12:28 PM Chris Zach via cctalk <
>cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi all!
>>
>> Re-subscribing to this list after a 20+ year "vacation" while raising
>> kids. I was pretty active in the Dec pdp10, pdp11, and pdp8
>communities
>> back in the 80's and managed to acquire a lot of "stuff". Now that I
>> have some time and space again I'm looking back into the pile of
>"high
>> mass hobbies" and wondering what still works.
>>
>> 
>
>
>Where are you located?
>Bill

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

RE: Original DEC logo in PostScript

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

I know next to nothing about PostScript and fonts, is it possible to convert 
this to a font that can be installed on Windows? I found a site that says it 
converts it (convertio.co), but I am suspicious of free sites like that.

Regards

Rob

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Jason T via cctalk
> Sent: 29 October 2019 04:34
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: Original DEC logo in PostScript
> 
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 1:46 PM Adrian Graham via cctalk
>  wrote:
> > This news must have done the rounds back in 2007 though,  because I have
> the file in question (declogo17.ps) on my Mac already…hmm...
> 
> 2007 is about right:
> 
> https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/200712/ancient_history_the_digital_logo.h
> tml

Re: Introduction and need help bringing some pdp11's back

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 12:28 PM Chris Zach via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> Re-subscribing to this list after a 20+ year "vacation" while raising
> kids. I was pretty active in the Dec pdp10, pdp11, and pdp8 communities
> back in the 80's and managed to acquire a lot of "stuff". Now that I
> have some time and space again I'm looking back into the pile of "high
> mass hobbies" and wondering what still works.
>
> 


Where are you located?
Bill

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Nemo via cctalk]

On 29/10/2019, Murray McCullough via cctalk 
wrote (in part):
> The first inter-computer  communication happened 50 years ago today. L.
> Kleinrock part of that historic moment, said, and I paraphrase here,
> ARPANET was the instrument that was to enable computers to talk to each
> other remotely. He sent “LO” because the system crashed(how surprising was
> that!)

According to "Where Wizards stay up late", the FEP crashed because of
an "optimization" that stuffed "gin" into the buffer faster than the
FEP could handle it.

N.

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 17:32, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> 50 years ago, inter-computer communication was common enough that it was
> a standard option in most vendors' catalogs.
>
> Maybe you've got a digit wrong?

Tim Berners-Lee says it's the 50th anniversary of the first internet
packets. I believe him more than pretty much anyone.

It's also in multiple computer news stories today.

The historic event was comms between heterogenous computers over a
standardised protocol (IP, I think).

Quit splitting hairs, folks.

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: IBM 1500 [was RE: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation]

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/28/19 12:14 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:

> The 1500 I worked with at the University of Texas School of Education was 
> based
> on an 1800 (which is of course the same architecture as the 1130, but in 
> highboy
> industrial cabinetry rather than a desk.  Coursewriter II and APL\1500 for the
> educational software, FORTRAN II and assembler for background tasks.

I recall that Standard Oil in Whiting, IN conducted on-site classes for
local high-school students on their 1800. This was about 1967 or so.

Wasn't the 1800 introduced slightly before the 1130? I seem to remember
something about that.

--Chuck

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/29/19 6:15 AM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
> The first inter-computer  communication happened 50 years ago today. L.
> Kleinrock part of that historic moment, said, and I paraphrase here,
> ARPANET was the instrument that was to enable computers to talk to each
> other remotely. He sent “LO” because the system crashed(how surprising was
> that!) This was the precursor to the inter-net, moving from the intra-net.

50 years ago, inter-computer communication was common enough that it was
a standard option in most vendors' catalogs.

Maybe you've got a digit wrong?

--Chuck

Introduction and need help bringing some pdp11's back

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Hi all!

Re-subscribing to this list after a 20+ year "vacation" while raising 
kids. I was pretty active in the Dec pdp10, pdp11, and pdp8 communities 
back in the 80's and managed to acquire a lot of "stuff". Now that I 
have some time and space again I'm looking back into the pile of "high 
mass hobbies" and wondering what still works.


In terms of communities I see the pdp8-lovers list is still going but I 
can't seem to find the pdp11 email list anymore. If anyone can add me 
I'd appreciate.


On to the technical issues: I currently am trying to bring back online a 
PDT11/150 and my main Q-Bus pdp11/73. The 11/150 is trying to boot but 
it looks like my old disk with RT11 5.1 and the PD: boot driver is no 
longer working. Does anyone have a copy of RT11 5.1 source disks they 
can loan me (I can't find my set).


The 11/73 is a bit more interesting: It's an 11/73 quad height CPU, 4mb 
of ram on a single DEC Q bus card, and for storage has an MTI ESDI 
controller hooked up to a Fujitsu ESDI drive. After some workings I was 
able to get the controller back online (hint: The password to get into 
the controller to make changes is MTI) and while I can boot RT11 off one 
of the two partitions my RSX11M 4.0 generated instance is flunking with 
a boot error. Probably some disk rot.


I also have a RLV12 controller in it and a pair of RL02's sitting in a 
closet here that I can drag upstairs with RSX111M 4.1 on them. Better 
than nothing and might allow me to boot up and possibly run a disk 
repair/regenerate the boot code on the EDSI disk. But that's not the 
real problem.


The real problem is I'm trying to put an RQDX3 in there instead of the 
ESDI controller so I can boot off RX50's. And I have no idea which way 
all the various ribbon cables are supposed to go. Will any 50 pin cable 
work between the RQDX3 and the BA23 distribution bulkhead? Anything 
special about the 34ish pin cable that goes between the bulkhead and the 
RX50? So far when I try to boot all devices DU0-3 give me not yet ready.


Ultimately I would like to format one of my MFM Maxtor drives as a RD54, 
then install MicroRSX and MicroRSTS from floppy. For the big ESDI drive 
I'd be happy getting that upgraded to RSX11M+ if I can find install 
media and running it as a serious system.


I also have TK70's, and a couple of other oddball things here including 
all the parts for BLT.AI.MIT.EDU (Sometimes called LSD), a RM80, an RX02 
with a RXV11 controller, and a bunch of other weird stuff.


Anyway, will be interesting to see if I can get these going. If I can 
get the 73 running the next step would be to get the 11/24 up and going, 
then start working on the 2020...


CZ

On 10/29/2019 11:27 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 10/29/2019 09:45 AM, jos via cctalk wrote:



an IBM 4331 for 1000 Euro b.i.n. seems OK to me, if I was in that sort 
of thing !


See  https://www.ebay.de/itm/IBM-grosrechner/184010116585 and his 
other offerings...



WOW, this is some amazing stuff he has!

Jon

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 10:21 AM William Donzelli via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > You may want to reword that statement ("first inter-computer
> > communication"). The SAGE Direction Center computers were talking to each
> > other (cross-tell) in 1958, via Bell 101 modems.
>
> "First" is a dangerous word, isn't it?
>
> --
> Will
>

I wonder who said that first.

Re: And yet another batch of IBM big iron one Ebay Germany..

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 10/29/2019 09:45 AM, jos via cctalk wrote:



an IBM 4331 for 1000 Euro b.i.n. seems OK to me, if I was 
in that sort of thing !


See  https://www.ebay.de/itm/IBM-grosrechner/184010116585 
and his other offerings...



WOW, this is some amazing stuff he has!

Jon

And yet another batch of IBM big iron one Ebay Germany..

[jos via cctalk]

an IBM 4331 for 1000 Euro b.i.n. seems OK to me, if I was in that sort of thing 
!

See  https://www.ebay.de/itm/IBM-grosrechner/184010116585 and his other 
offerings...



Jos

Re: IBM 1500 [was RE: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation]

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

> The 1500 I worked with at the University of Texas School of Education was 
> based
> on an 1800 (which is of course the same architecture as the 1130, but in 
> highboy
> industrial cabinetry rather than a desk.  Coursewriter II and APL\1500 for the
> educational software, FORTRAN II and assembler for background tasks.

I think most were 1130 (1131 to be more precise) based, but a few were
indeed 1800. Not sure why - maybe larger installations?

--
Will

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[William Donzelli via cctalk]

> You may want to reword that statement ("first inter-computer
> communication"). The SAGE Direction Center computers were talking to each
> other (cross-tell) in 1958, via Bell 101 modems.

"First" is a dangerous word, isn't it?

--
Will

Re: 50 yrs. ago today

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:


The first inter-computer  communication happened 50 years ago today. L.
Kleinrock part of that historic moment, said, and I paraphrase here,
ARPANET was the instrument that was to enable computers to talk to each
other remotely. He sent ?LO? because the system crashed(how surprising was
that!) This was the precursor to the inter-net, moving from the intra-net.

Happy computing all!


   You may want to reword that statement ("first inter-computer 
communication"). The SAGE Direction Center computers were talking to each 
other (cross-tell) in 1958, via Bell 101 modems.



Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

50 yrs. ago today

[Murray McCullough via cctalk]

The first inter-computer  communication happened 50 years ago today. L.
Kleinrock part of that historic moment, said, and I paraphrase here,
ARPANET was the instrument that was to enable computers to talk to each
other remotely. He sent “LO” because the system crashed(how surprising was
that!) This was the precursor to the inter-net, moving from the intra-net.

 Happy computing all!

Murray  ☺


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

IBM 1500 [was RE: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation]

[Rich Alderson via cctalk]

From: William Donzelli
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2019 6:45 PM

> PICTURES! PICTURES! PICTURES!

>> I have been unable to find anything about the 4505 display station. Does
>> anyone know any details about this item? It resembles an IBM 2260, but the
>> keyboard is not built-in, as in the 2260.

> I think it may be for an IBM 1500, the educational system based on an 1130.

The 1500 I worked with at the University of Texas School of Education was based
on an 1800 (which is of course the same architecture as the 1130, but in highboy
industrial cabinetry rather than a desk.  Coursewriter II and APL\1500 for the
educational software, FORTRAN II and assembler for background tasks.

Rich