Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Thanks!
Marc

> On May 2, 2020, at 4:49 AM, David Collins via cctech  
> wrote:
> 
> I've pulled together details of the controller used with an HP2748 paper 
> tape reader to dump a bunch of tapes from the HP Computer Museum's collection 
> with the help of J. David Bryan.
> 
> The details are at this link..
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KaJkVgYzPusJN9tLf4IaSIa104fvLhUs
> 
> The unit and Arduino code are both pretty rough and ready and I'm sure can be 
> improved - but they served their purpose!
> 
> Hope it is of use to others...  
> 
> Now to get those new tape files published...
> 
> David Collins
> www.hpmuseum.net
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: David Collins  
> Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2020 7:34 AM
> To: J. David Bryan ; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts 
> 
> Subject: Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
> 
> Further to Dave’s post below, I’m happy to share the Arduino code and 
> schematic if anyone has a suitable reader and wants to try it. It was indeed 
> designed to interface to the HP2748 but is pretty simple and could be adapted 
> to any similar reader. 
> 
> David Collins
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>>> On 29 Apr 2020, at 6:33 am, J. David Bryan via cctech 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 17:56, Tony Duell via cctech wrote:
>>> 
>>> The HP2748 is a common-ish example of this type of un[i]t. 
>> 
>> David Collins of the HP Computer Museum and I just recently completed 
>> reading some 200+ paper tapes from the museum collection.  He used a 
>> 2748 coupled with a custom Arduino-based interface to produce 
>> plain-text files containing an octal representation of the tape bytes.  
>> We passed these through a small program to convert them to binary 
>> files and a second program to verify checksums of those tapes 
>> containing relocatable or absolute binary object data.  The resulting 
>> files can be used as is with the HP 2100 SIMH simulator or could be 
>> punched back into physical paper tapes if desired.
>> 
>> -- Dave
>> 
> 

Re: Great, my VT52 is shot.

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Well, I pulled the E2 op-amp and replaced it with a NOS one of the same 
model. Put the supply together and now I am getting -17 volts on pins E2 
to ground (E10).


I'm thinking of just replacing the power transistor Q12 with a 7912 -12v 
regulator that I have here and bypassing the whole op amp/transistor 
mess. That should give me a solid -12v on the E2 line and provide power 
for the -5 volt divider circuit.


Thoughts?
C

On 4/22/2020 11:52 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 04/21/2020 10:09 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

On 2020-Apr-21, at 5:27 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Meantime reading the manual I found an interesting test: If you short 
emitter to base on Q4 (easiest way is to jumper diode D10) the 
voltage on the -12v supply goes to .4 volts. They're saying it's E2, 
R15,R17,R14.


Is there a way I can test the op-amp in circuit? Maybe it's dead.



Well, if the circuit **IS** regulating, then the voltage on the two 
inputs will be identical.
But, since it might not be regulating, then these voltages would not be 
equal.
But, if you can see that the + input is more positive than the - input, 
yet the output
is pegged negative, for instance, then you know either the op-amp is 
bad, or another circuit is overloading

the output and forcing it that way.

Jon

Re: MSV11-R doc needed

[Aaron Taylor via cctalk]

> But I agree that given the 18 chips, [the MSV11-R is] probably parity.

The link below is a screenshot from the onboard KDJ11-B 'print a memory map'
function. It confirms the DEC MSV11-R is recognized as parity.

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=37954=1493018113

Aaron

Re: MSV11-R doc needed

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Chris Zach

> http://www.aceware.com.au/acms/images/Invent/GeneralRoboticsMSV_11R.jpg

I don't know what that is, but it's not an MSV11-R. Here:

  https://gunkies.org/wiki/File:MSV11-R.jpg

is an MSV11-R.


> Maybe it's PMI memory without ECC? I count 18 bits across which seems 
> like the MSV11-Q parity memory.

Alas, there is almost zilch original DEC documentation extant which speaks of
it; not even uNote #28:

  
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/micronotes/numerical/micronote28.txt

which briefly covers all the other late DEC QBUS memories (including the
MSV11-M, which ia otherwise _completely_ un-documented) mentions it.

But I agree that given the 18 chips, it'a probably parity.

Noel

Re: MSV11-R doc needed

[Aaron Taylor via cctalk]

> I'm trying to confirm an online report that [the MSV11-R is] a PMI card;

I can confirm that the DEC MSV11-R is a PMI card. I own two and have used them
with my KDJ11-B.

The vcfed.org thread linked by someone else was actually started by me when I
purchased them and couldn't find dipswitch settings. The screenshots I posted
there confirm the board is recognized as PMI by my KDJ11-B.

Aaron

Re: MSV11-R doc needed

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

One is a DEC M7458 MSV11-R, the other is from a 3rd party "General Robotics
Corp." according to the printing on the board, which apparently happens to
share the same model name.

On Wed, May 6, 2020, 3:57 PM Chris Zach via cctalk 
wrote:

> Cool, but can't see without logging in. Was the other pic wrong?
>
> C
>
> > Photos of an actual DEC M7458 MSV11-R, not some random 3rd party
> > board, on this thread:
> >
> >
> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?55636-MSV11-R-dipswitch-settings
> >
>

Re: Facit N4000 Schematic

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Would love to see it, I have such a machine in the queue for restoration.
Marc

> On Apr 30, 2020, at 5:49 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> From time to time there are posts here about the Facit N4000 paper
> tape punch/reader unit. The one that looks like a Facit 4070 with a
> tape reader on the front (in fact the punch mechanism is much the same
> as that in the 4070).
> 
> I have reverse-engineered mine and traced out the schematics. Of
> course it's one of my hand-drawn ones but I think it's mostly legible.
> If anyone wants it I am happy to send out a copy (but as ever I'd
> rather send it out once and have somebody else pass it on)
> 
> -tony

Re: MSV11-R doc needed

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Cool, but can't see without logging in. Was the other pic wrong?

C


Photos of an actual DEC M7458 MSV11-R, not some random 3rd party
board, on this thread:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?55636-MSV11-R-dipswitch-settings

Re: MSV11-R doc needed

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 1:23 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> Hi, I'm looking for documentation on the MSV11-R; there's next to nothing
> online. (An -11/84 manual gives config, but that's all I cam find.) There is
> an 'MSV11-R User Guide' (EK-MSV1R-UG), but it's not online; I don't suppose
> anyone out there has one?
>
> I'm trying to confirm an online report that it's a PMI card; if so, I want to
> put a warning on the CHWiki page for it, to warn people not to plug it into a
> Q/Q backplane. (I have one, and did try it back when I first got it, but I
> don't recall if I knew it might be a PMI card at the time! I'm too
> lazy/low-energy to get my Q/CD machine running so I can plug it in and see if
> it still works. :-)
>
> Given the size of the card, and the amount of non-memory logic, compared to
> the MSV11-M and MSV11-Q, I would tend to suspect it is a PMI card, but it
> would be good to find some DEC docs to confirm it.
>
>   Noel

Photos of an actual DEC M7458 MSV11-R, not some random 3rd party
board, on this thread:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?55636-MSV11-R-dipswitch-settings

Re: MSV11-R doc needed

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Ok. I think this is a picture of it:

http://www.aceware.com.au/acms/images/Invent/GeneralRoboticsMSV_11R.jpg

However if it is PMI then it does not have ECC. That's more like a 
MSV11-Q type memory.


C

Re: MSV11-R doc needed

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

The link doesn't work but this does.

http://www.aceware.com.au/acms/images/Invent/GeneralRoboticsMSV_11R.jpg

Maybe it's PMI memory without ECC? I count 18 bits across which seems 
like the MSV11-Q parity memory.


Does it say PMI on the side?
C

Re: MSV11-R doc needed

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

here is a picture of the board
http://www.aceware.com.au/acms/ExpandThumbnail.asp?str640_480Image='images%2FInvent%2FGeneralRoboticsMSV_11R.jpg'

RE: Odd book

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

> From: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
> Subject: Odd book
> Message-ID: <20200506152915.23ea118c...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
> 
> So, I've come across an odd book that might interest some here: "Achieving
> Accuray: A Legacy of Computers and Missiles", by Marshall William McMurray.
> 
> The first couple of chapters merely re-tell the story of earliest computers
> (pre-elecronic and electronic), up through the IBM 701, Elliott 401, NCR 304,
> SAGE, CDC 6600, IBM 7090, etc. Competent, but nothing special. Then it
> gets interesting, though.
….
> A very unusual and off-beat work.
> 
>  Noel

Noel,
   Thanks for the book recommendation above. I was happy to see that it was 
available in a reasonably priced Kindle version.
One of my favorite computer history books is Stan Augarten's 1984 book, Bit by 
Bit: An Illustrated History of Computers.

I did manage to find a copy and really enjoyed reading it and looking at 
the great photos in it. I was curious to know
a bit more about the author and in “DuckDuckGoing” him I ran across an online 
college course by Haverford University:

http://ds-wordpress.haverford.edu/bitbybit/bit-by-bit-contents/front-matter/table-of-contents/
 


that has the entire text and the photos from Stan Augarten’s book. It is a 
great way to read an otherwise hard to find
book. It also has some .pdfs of the lecture slides from the professors who put 
this great web site together.

Mark

Re: MSV11-R doc needed

[Wayne S via cctalk]

In case you didn’t already have this info...

http://pdp-11.nl/fieldguide.html

This site has a doc “ Field guide to Q bus and unibus options“ modules and it’s 
listed as a Q bus 3rd party option as follows...

MSV11-R Q   General Robotics 4Mb 22-bit memory, MSV11-p compatible

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2020, at 13:31, Chris Zach via cctalk  wrote:

Never heard of it, but if you want me to try plugging it into my BA23 let me 
know. What's the worst that could happen :-)

C

On 5/6/2020 4:23 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
Hi, I'm looking for documentation on the MSV11-R; there's next to nothing
online. (An -11/84 manual gives config, but that's all I cam find.) There is
an 'MSV11-R User Guide' (EK-MSV1R-UG), but it's not online; I don't suppose
anyone out there has one?
I'm trying to confirm an online report that it's a PMI card; if so, I want to
put a warning on the CHWiki page for it, to warn people not to plug it into a
Q/Q backplane. (I have one, and did try it back when I first got it, but I
don't recall if I knew it might be a PMI card at the time! I'm too
lazy/low-energy to get my Q/CD machine running so I can plug it in and see if
it still works. :-)
Given the size of the card, and the amount of non-memory logic, compared to
the MSV11-M and MSV11-Q, I would tend to suspect it is a PMI card, but it
would be good to find some DEC docs to confirm it.
  Noel

Re: MSV11-R doc needed

[John H. Reinhardt via cctalk]

Hmmm.  Smoke???

--
John H. Reinhardt

On 5/6/2020 3:30 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:

Never heard of it, but if you want me to try plugging it into my BA23 let me 
know. What's the worst that could happen :-)

C

On 5/6/2020 4:23 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

Hi, I'm looking for documentation on the MSV11-R; there's next to nothing
online. (An -11/84 manual gives config, but that's all I cam find.) There is
an 'MSV11-R User Guide' (EK-MSV1R-UG), but it's not online; I don't suppose
anyone out there has one?

I'm trying to confirm an online report that it's a PMI card; if so, I want to
put a warning on the CHWiki page for it, to warn people not to plug it into a
Q/Q backplane. (I have one, and did try it back when I first got it, but I
don't recall if I knew it might be a PMI card at the time! I'm too
lazy/low-energy to get my Q/CD machine running so I can plug it in and see if
it still works. :-)

Given the size of the card, and the amount of non-memory logic, compared to
the MSV11-M and MSV11-Q, I would tend to suspect it is a PMI card, but it
would be good to find some DEC docs to confirm it.

   Noel

Re: MSV11-R doc needed

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

Never heard of it, but if you want me to try plugging it into my BA23 
let me know. What's the worst that could happen :-)


C

On 5/6/2020 4:23 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

Hi, I'm looking for documentation on the MSV11-R; there's next to nothing
online. (An -11/84 manual gives config, but that's all I cam find.) There is
an 'MSV11-R User Guide' (EK-MSV1R-UG), but it's not online; I don't suppose
anyone out there has one?

I'm trying to confirm an online report that it's a PMI card; if so, I want to
put a warning on the CHWiki page for it, to warn people not to plug it into a
Q/Q backplane. (I have one, and did try it back when I first got it, but I
don't recall if I knew it might be a PMI card at the time! I'm too
lazy/low-energy to get my Q/CD machine running so I can plug it in and see if
it still works. :-)

Given the size of the card, and the amount of non-memory logic, compared to
the MSV11-M and MSV11-Q, I would tend to suspect it is a PMI card, but it
would be good to find some DEC docs to confirm it.

   Noel

MSV11-R doc needed

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

Hi, I'm looking for documentation on the MSV11-R; there's next to nothing
online. (An -11/84 manual gives config, but that's all I cam find.) There is
an 'MSV11-R User Guide' (EK-MSV1R-UG), but it's not online; I don't suppose
anyone out there has one?

I'm trying to confirm an online report that it's a PMI card; if so, I want to
put a warning on the CHWiki page for it, to warn people not to plug it into a
Q/Q backplane. (I have one, and did try it back when I first got it, but I
don't recall if I knew it might be a PMI card at the time! I'm too
lazy/low-energy to get my Q/CD machine running so I can plug it in and see if
it still works. :-)

Given the size of the card, and the amount of non-memory logic, compared to
the MSV11-M and MSV11-Q, I would tend to suspect it is a PMI card, but it
would be good to find some DEC docs to confirm it.

  Noel

RE: Odd book

[Ali via cctalk]

> Yes, the Monrobot is particularly interesting
> because (among other things) it was reviewed
> in the New Yorker magazine.
> 
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1960/03/19/portable-robot

That must have been quite a machine to beat a person five times in Tic Tac
Toe. Even the WOPR couldn't do that...

-Ali

RE: Odd book

[William Sudbrink via cctalk]

Noel Chiappa wrote:

> Competent, but nothing special. Then it
> gets interesting, though.

> MONROBOT III (!!),

Yes, the Monrobot is particularly interesting
because (among other things) it was reviewed
in the New Yorker magazine.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1960/03/19/portable-robot

Bill S.


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Odd book

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

So, I've come across an odd book that might interest some here: "Achieving
Accuray: A Legacy of Computers and Missiles", by Marshall William McMurray.

The first couple of chapters merely re-tell the story of earliest computers
(pre-elecronic and electronic), up through the IBM 701, Elliott 401, NCR 304,
SAGE, CDC 6600, IBM 7090, etc. Competent, but nothing special. Then it
gets interesting, though.

Chapter 4 is "Small Magnetic Drum Computers of the 1950s", and it covers a
bunch of machines I'd never heard of: JAINCOMP B-1 (!), MONROBOT III (!!),
CADAC 101, 102 (!!!) and on and on.

Chapter 5 is "Real-Time Control Computers", and it covers a long group of
machines: ALWAC I, II, III; Univac Athena; Autonetics Verdan D9A-L; Librascope
C-141 to name but a few. Pure gold, this chapter and the one before - retrieved
a lot of machines from the memory hole.

Chapter 6 is "NASA Control Computers", and it covers the usual suspects: IBM
ASC 15, IBM LVDC, IBM GDC, Librascope Centaur, AGC, IBM 4Pi. Some of these
are covered elseshere, but it's nice to have them all in one place.

Chapter 7 is "Late-Model High Speed Supercomputers", with quite a range:
starting with Cray 1, Sun, SGI, then the various ASCI array multi-processor
systems at LLNL, etc.

It then moved over to missiles, and goes through a similar progression,
starting early, with some details of WWII era stuff (e.g.Hs 293's), then a
chapter on V-1's amd V-2's and their derivatives.

More chapters on "Early US Missile Programs", NAA's inertialguidance work and
its applications up through Polaris, Titans, etc. Then more on later US
missiles and their guidance systems, such as Minuteman, Trident and MX.

A lengthy Chapter 13 is "Soviet and Russian Land-Based Missile Systems", which
doesn't have quite the detail of the US chapters (in which the authot was
personally involved), but is still novel. Another chapter then finishes with
Soiet/Russian naval missiles.

A very unusual and off-beat work.

  Noel

Heathkit H8 and other items on Minneapolis craigslist

[Mike Begley via cctalk]

Hey, all.

I was browsing various craigslist places around the US and found someone 
selling off a substantial collection of classic micros outside Minneapolis

His ad is here:
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/sys/d/silver-lake-vintage-computer-collection/7100922754.html

Through our email chats I've determined that he has these components of an old 
Heathkit system of unknown workingness:

H8
H17-3 floppy drive
H17-2 drive chassis
Zenith data systems ZVM-131 monitor

Also, he has a terminal made by Data-100, for which I can't find much info but 
I suspect will be a 3270-compatible terminal of some sort.

He also has a variety of micros, particularly some Atari 8-bit, Apple II , 
CoCos, and other things.  The photos in the ad only show a fraction of what he 
has.  He's not terribly knowledgeable - he came into this stuff as part of an 
estate cleanout and had 4 pickup truck loads of this stuff, so who knows what 
has been lost.

I let him know that I would be posting here, so feel free to reach out to him 
directly.

Anyway, I figured I'd post this here given that someone in the Minneapolis area 
might be interested in checking some of this stuff out, in a covid-compliant 
manner, of course...

-mike