Re: Odd book
On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 5:59 PM Brian L. Stuart wrote: > If it's the one I'm thinking of, the game is called hexapawn, > though it's played on a 3x3 grid, like TTT. I've always > had a fond spot for that article. It was one of my inspirations > back when I did a lot of AI. I remember Martin Gardner writing on that too, I can't remember if it's the same article or not. I will have to go along my bookshelves... To keep this on-topic, I also remember an program for the HP67/97 to play Hexapawn, in the Games Pac 1 I think. -tony
Re: MicroVAX 3100 Model 95 Ripple
On 2020-May-09, at 9:32 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: > I have recently been trying to improve the ripple on the output of my > MicroVAX 3100 Model 95 PSU because occasionally it would fry a memory > module. I replaced a bunch of capacitors, some of which had started to leak. > However, the ripple does not seem much better. There is a scope trace here: > > https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/microvax-3100-model-95-psu-ripp > le-after-re-capping.png > > Ch1 is the 12V output and Ch2 is the 5V output. I had an old RD53 connected > as a dummy load. It is possible that the memory was breaking because of > occasional spikes that are worse, but I don't know. Does that seem OK? Two guesses come to mind, but a lot depends on, or greater insight might be gained from, knowing the design configuration of the power supply. The spikes are suggestive of ringing from a fast and undamped switching operation. Might be from switching of the primary-side driver, or from the switching of the secondary-side rectifiers in the conduction/non-conduction cycle. More scope observation and knowledge of the design might sort out whether the spikes are synchronous to the primary driver vs. the sec rectifiers. Guesses: - The snubbing/damping C/L/diode networks around the primary winding of the transformer. - The snubbing caps (usually) paralleling secondary-side rectifiers. As the spikes look to be heavier on the 5V circuitry, it may be those on the 12V output are 'just' induced reflections through the transformer from what's happening on the 5V circuitry.
RE: MicroVAX 3100 Model 95 Ripple
The spikes are 400mV. The probes are set to x10 and the scope is set for them to be x10. Regards Rob > -Original Message- > From: Jon Elson > Sent: 09 May 2020 17:45 > To: r...@jarratt.me.uk; Rob Jarratt ; General > Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: MicroVAX 3100 Model 95 Ripple > > On 05/09/2020 11:32 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: > > Hello, > > > > > > > > I have recently been trying to improve the ripple on the output of my > > MicroVAX 3100 Model 95 PSU because occasionally it would fry a memory > > module. I replaced a bunch of capacitors, some of which had started to leak. > > However, the ripple does not seem much better. There is a scope trace here: > > > > > > > > https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/microvax-3100-model-95-ps > > u-ripp > > le-after-re-capping.png > > > > > > > > Ch1 is the 12V output and Ch2 is the 5V output. I had an old RD53 > > connected as a dummy load. It is possible that the memory was breaking > > because of occasional spikes that are worse, but I don't know. Does that seem > OK? > > > > > These spikes are very likely not real, but a result of probe ground impedance. > There likely ARE some spikes and ripple, but not to the extent of the giant, > sharp vertical spikes. If you are using a X10 probe, does the 200 mV / div on > the scope trace reflect that attenuation? > > In other words, are the spikes 400 mV or 4 V? > > Jon
Re: Odd punched cards
If I said 'EPT' anywhere I apologize; I'm talking about PPT (Punched Paper Tape) and EPCs (Edge Punched Cards). Here's a description of a series 'L' system, the successor to the 'E' series, containing "The reader could be used for loading programs faster. It could also be used for accessing user data from punched paper tape or from edge-punched cards." http://www.picklesnet.com/burroughs/descriptions/bltc.htm And pictures of the PPT/EPC perforator and reader (unfortunately the perf picture seems to link to the reader so you don't get a full-sized picture) : http://www.picklesnet.com/burroughs/gallery/bpgltc.htm- A great (downloadable) book full of pictures and specifications of computers of that era is "A Third Survey of Domestic Electronic Digital Computing Systems" (one of a series): https://books.google.ca/books?id=fZg8yAEACAAJ=a+third+survey=en=X=0ahUKEwipiMiBlafpAhWjm-AKHQqcBhAQ6AEINTAC See P.179 for a well tricked out E101. Unfortunately people tend to dismiss this class of systems as 'only' accounting machines, largely because of their integrated keyboards and printer carriages based on the earlier electro-mechanical machines for operator familiarity, so there's little information and discussion about them. But they are definitely 'true' computers using the same technology as contemporary general-purpose systems, core memory, disk drives, etc., and as technology advanced IC memory, high-speed dot-matrix printers etc., and, in the latest models, multiple high-speed cassette drive systems used the same way as the big brother tape drives and almost as much fun to watch in action. Sorry for going a little OT; I'll do some digging for those cards... mike - Original Message - From: "Peter Van Peborgh" To: "'Mike Stein'" Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2020 6:27 AM Subject: RE: Odd punched cards > M, > > An intriguing email. Also leaves me with more questions... And longings! > > My [PVP: ] comments are in your email below. > > Vintage computers forever! Many thanks, > > P > > -Original Message- > From: Mike Stein > Sent: 08 May 2020 16:45 > To: Peter Van Peborgh > Subject: Re: Odd punched cards > > The systems that I'm familiar with that used EPCs were Burroughs 'E' series > accounting computers; the readers and perforators handled both PPT and EPCs > and the cards were a sort of random-access PPT. > > [PVP: ] I am having problems finding info on these two types of cards: EPT > and EPC. Can you point me in the right direction? > > If you were preparing an invoice, for example, you might have a set of cards > for the customer name and address and another (possibly different colour) > set for the line items; you'd enter the quantities and it would be printed > and punched out on PPT for the accounting functions. > > Still have some cards and the perfs and readers somewhere; must play with > them one day... > > [PVP: ] This is cruelty to animals! Is there ANY way you could dig up some > of these EPC and EPT cards for my collection/display? Talk to me about > postage, etc... > > > m > > - Original Message - > From: "Peter Van Peborgh" > To: "'Mike Stein'" > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 3:45 PM > Subject: RE: Odd punched cards > > >> Mike, >> >> 96-column cards I have, thank you. >> >> I used edge-punched cards to record scientific papers' details when I was >> doing research. Did any get used with computers, do you know? >> >> Many thanks, >> >> peter >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Mike Stein >> Sent: 23 April 2020 19:17 >> To: Peter Van Peborgh ; General Discussion: On-Topic >> Posts >> Subject: Re: Odd punched cards >> >> How about 96 column and EPC (Edge Punched) Cards? >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Peter Van Peborgh via cctech" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 2:03 PM >> Subject: Odd punched cards >> >> >>> Guys, >>> >>> I got a positive response about the Port-A-Punch cards so no longer any >> need >>> to respond to this one. Very encouraging. >>> >>> Still looking for Jacquard cards and original Hollerith cards. Hope >> springs >>> eternal. >>> >>> peter >>> >>> || | | || | | || >>> Peter Van Peborgh >>> 62 St Mary's Rise >>> Writhlington Radstock >>> Somerset BA3 3PD >>> UK >>> 01761 439 234 >>> >>> "Our times are in God's wise and loving hands" >>> >>> || | | || | | || >>> >>> >> >
Re: Odd book
On Saturday, May 9, 2020, 11:42:11 AM EDT, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: >On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 4:23 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk >wrote: >> >> > From: Dwight Kelvey >> >> > There was a fellow that made a relay logic that could play tic tac toe There's a guy who brings the stepper/relay TTT machine he did in high school to VCFSE every year. >> In high school, my math teacher (I think it was) used a couple of matchboxes >> and some beads to create a TTT device; he 'programmed' it by playing against >> it, and when the device lost a game, he pulled out the bead that indicated >> the device's previous move, so it could never make that losing move again. >> Pretty impressive, I thought... > > I am pretty sure that was in one of Martin Gardner's columns > (Mathematical Games) in Scientific American, and is reprinted in one > of his books. Of course he might have got it from your teacher rather > than vice versa. If it's the one I'm thinking of, the game is called hexapawn, though it's played on a 3x3 grid, like TTT. I've always had a fond spot for that article. It was one of my inspirations back when I did a lot of AI. BLS
Re: MicroVAX 3100 Model 95 Ripple
On 05/09/2020 11:32 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: Hello, I have recently been trying to improve the ripple on the output of my MicroVAX 3100 Model 95 PSU because occasionally it would fry a memory module. I replaced a bunch of capacitors, some of which had started to leak. However, the ripple does not seem much better. There is a scope trace here: https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/microvax-3100-model-95-psu-ripp le-after-re-capping.png Ch1 is the 12V output and Ch2 is the 5V output. I had an old RD53 connected as a dummy load. It is possible that the memory was breaking because of occasional spikes that are worse, but I don't know. Does that seem OK? These spikes are very likely not real, but a result of probe ground impedance. There likely ARE some spikes and ripple, but not to the extent of the giant, sharp vertical spikes. If you are using a X10 probe, does the 200 mV / div on the scope trace reflect that attenuation? In other words, are the spikes 400 mV or 4 V? Jon
MicroVAX 3100 Model 95 Ripple
Hello, I have recently been trying to improve the ripple on the output of my MicroVAX 3100 Model 95 PSU because occasionally it would fry a memory module. I replaced a bunch of capacitors, some of which had started to leak. However, the ripple does not seem much better. There is a scope trace here: https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/microvax-3100-model-95-psu-ripp le-after-re-capping.png Ch1 is the 12V output and Ch2 is the 5V output. I had an old RD53 connected as a dummy load. It is possible that the memory was breaking because of occasional spikes that are worse, but I don't know. Does that seem OK? Thanks Rob
Re: Odd book
> On May 9, 2020 at 10:41 AM Tony Duell via cctalk > wrote: > > On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 4:23 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk > wrote:>> > From: Dwight Kelvey> > There was a fellow that made a relay logic > that could play tic tac toe> What's with these new-fangled devices using > _electricity_ anyway? :-)> In high school, my math teacher (I think it was) > used a couple of matchboxesand some beads to create a TTT device; he > 'programmed' it by playing againstit, and when the device lost a game, he > pulled out the bead that indicatedthe device's previous move, so it could > never make that losing move again.Pretty impressive, I thought...I am pretty > sure that was in one of Martin Gardner's columns(Mathematical Games) in > Scientific American, and is reprinted in oneof his books. Of course he might > have got it from your teacher ratherthan vice versa. MENACE? 1960? https://opendatascience.com/menace-donald-michie-tic-tac-toe-machine-learning/ Will
Re: Odd book
On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 4:23 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > > From: Dwight Kelvey > > > There was a fellow that made a relay logic that could play tic tac toe > > What's with these new-fangled devices using _electricity_ anyway? :-) > > In high school, my math teacher (I think it was) used a couple of matchboxes > and some beads to create a TTT device; he 'programmed' it by playing against > it, and when the device lost a game, he pulled out the bead that indicated > the device's previous move, so it could never make that losing move again. > Pretty impressive, I thought... I am pretty sure that was in one of Martin Gardner's columns (Mathematical Games) in Scientific American, and is reprinted in one of his books. Of course he might have got it from your teacher rather than vice versa. I am sure I have the appropriate book on my shelves, I can try to find the reference if you want it. -tony
Re: Odd book
> From: Dwight Kelvey > There was a fellow that made a relay logic that could play tic tac toe What's with these new-fangled devices using _electricity_ anyway? :-) In high school, my math teacher (I think it was) used a couple of matchboxes and some beads to create a TTT device; he 'programmed' it by playing against it, and when the device lost a game, he pulled out the bead that indicated the device's previous move, so it could never make that losing move again. Pretty impressive, I thought... Noel
RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: DIGI-COMP 1 enhanced
Love it! https://Museum.syssrc.com/tour Bob Roswell -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Tapley, Mark B. via cctalk Sent: Friday, May 08, 2020 6:10 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: DIGI-COMP 1 enhanced > On May 8, 2020, at 10:08 AM, Jörg Hoppe via cctalk > wrote: > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] > > Guys, > > I added a motor drive to my DIGI-COMP I, and wrote 4 web pages about that > device. > > See http://www.retrocmp.com/articles/digi-comp-1/ > > or just the video https://youtu.be/D6GgxXRJXnw > > best regards, > > Joerg I can hear the overclocking crowd coming already. :-). And, I love the program - that looks a lot like my first program.
Re: Facit N4000 Schematic
On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 1:07 PM Stefan Skoglund wrote: > > tor 2020-04-30 klockan 13:49 +0100 skrev Tony Duell via cctalk: > > From time to time there are posts here about the Facit N4000 paper > > tape punch/reader unit. The one that looks like a Facit 4070 with a > > tape reader on the front (in fact the punch mechanism is much the > > same > > as that in the 4070). > > > > I have reverse-engineered mine and traced out the schematics. Of > > course it's one of my hand-drawn ones but I think it's mostly > > legible. > > If anyone wants it I am happy to send out a copy (but as ever I'd > > rather send it out once and have somebody else pass it on) > > > > -tony > > When was your punch made in Åtvidaberg ? I will have to check (and my 4070s) > > According to Tekniska museet (museum of technology) Stockholm, they > were made between 1968 to 1999. The Facit 4070 might have been (the first version of the logic board used DTL I seem to recall) but the N4000 is much later. There's a 6809 microprocessor and a 68701 microcontroller in there. -tony
Re: Facit N4000 Schematic (BESK application)
tor 2020-04-30 klockan 13:49 +0100 skrev Tony Duell via cctalk: > From time to time there are posts here about the Facit N4000 paper > tape punch/reader unit. The one that looks like a Facit 4070 with a > tape reader on the front (in fact the punch mechanism is much the > same > as that in the 4070). > > I have reverse-engineered mine and traced out the schematics. Of > course it's one of my hand-drawn ones but I think it's mostly > legible. > If anyone wants it I am happy to send out a copy (but as ever I'd > rather send it out once and have somebody else pass it on) > > -tony On the page about the Facit N 4070, (the page is really about the BESK) is a link to a early computer generated film: https://youtu.be/XhNT501DsJI Using the BESK, the road designers of the motorway between Stockholm and Nacka was able to simulate driving on the road.
Re: Facit N4000 Schematic
tor 2020-04-30 klockan 13:49 +0100 skrev Tony Duell via cctalk: > From time to time there are posts here about the Facit N4000 paper > tape punch/reader unit. The one that looks like a Facit 4070 with a > tape reader on the front (in fact the punch mechanism is much the > same > as that in the 4070). > > I have reverse-engineered mine and traced out the schematics. Of > course it's one of my hand-drawn ones but I think it's mostly > legible. > If anyone wants it I am happy to send out a copy (but as ever I'd > rather send it out once and have somebody else pass it on) > > -tony When was your punch made in Åtvidaberg ? According to Tekniska museet (museum of technology) Stockholm, they were made between 1968 to 1999. About 145000 done in total.
Re: DIGI-COMP 1 enhanced
> On May 8, 2020, at 10:08 AM, Jörg Hoppe via cctalk > wrote: > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] > > Guys, > > I added a motor drive to my DIGI-COMP I, and wrote 4 web pages about that > device. > > See http://www.retrocmp.com/articles/digi-comp-1/ > > or just the video https://youtu.be/D6GgxXRJXnw > > best regards, > > Joerg I can hear the overclocking crowd coming already. :-). And, I love the program - that looks a lot like my first program.
