Re: college study
I got my degree four years before my retirement. Fun stuff and memories. When I was at UMBC in 1986 I was kicked off the Vax 8600's for writing funny scripts that would run in the batch queues and resubmit between the systems when they completed. Net result was seriously elevated rights, baffled sysadmins, and a hilarious crash when they were killed improperly. Things happen. Off to Essex Community College and their IBM mainframe for me!!! Left college completely a year or so later because I kind of needed to eat, but fortunately I was also worked on the Vax 785 which was connected to this ArpaNet thing. The 8600's were on Bitnet. That knowledge got me 25 or so years of amazing work, friends, family, kids, and community. Finally I figured I would go back and finish an AS at Essex Community College (since I could claim that tuition tax credit too). They still had my old credits and 2 years of part time got me a degree in CS. Then I found you could transfer into U of M. And they had totally forgotten about the Vax thing (a funny story that I'll tell in person). So I spent 2 years doing that and finished my degree at 48. Not because I needed it, but because why not I guess you could say I gave up trying for it a long time ago, but I never quite gave up hope. It can be done. CZ
Re: Firing up the pdt11
RX01 format is a standard IBM format used by many systems, including many CP/M ones, so it was possible to buy pre-formatted disks. Maybe they came that way. That may be it: The Elephant disk does say on the factory label: Single sided, single density, IBM compatible, 128 bytes, 26 sectors. So something like that will INIT on an RX01? Maybe that was it, if so weird mystery solved. The other disks from Solarex are not looking good. Some of them have paper copies of directories, and they seemed to be using the FD: driver. Now I believe Solarex was running TSX on their systems, is FD: just TSX's way of saying DY? If not anyone need a bunch of 8 inch floppy disks? Thanks for the help on this one. If the PDT really can't do formatting then maybe I'll just stick it back in the closet for another 20-30 years. It's an odd duck, but a cute odd duck CZ
Informix for SCO XENIX
Just wanted to let you all know that I've found a copy of Informix 3.11 for SCO XENIX on the Lisa 2... anyone interested?
Re: college study
On 10/13/20 3:17 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Oct 13, 2020, at 2:50 PM, Cindy Croxton via cctalk wrote: ... My college friend says Wow, that is a LOT of work! Is there an expectation now that being educated is NOT a lot of work? It depends. In sciences, people understand that it's a lot of work. In what Robert Heinlein called the "fuzzy subjects", you can often be a party animal who does very little real work and get a degree anyway. If so, it doesn't mean you learned anything and it doesn't mean the field you picked as a major has any merit or usefulness. Many moons ago I used to work in a paper products plant. I used to have discussions on philosophy and literature with people with Masters and even Phd's that stuffed boxes with product just like I did. It did help pass the time but seemed somewhat of a waste of a lot of time and money on their part. I got my degree four years before my retirement. bill
Re: college study
> On Oct 13, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Liam Proven via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2020 at 00:19, Fred Cisin via cctalk
> wrote:
>>
>> Do you want the degree?
>> Or do you want to LEARN?
>
> Fair!
>
> Both.
I like learning. Partly it's the good influence of my late father, and I said
so in my eulogy. I keep learning new programming languages, for one thing.
:-) And I like learning strange stuff. Some years ago I bought a text book
about writing systems and read it with great pleasure. Some years earlier a
textbook about (human) languages and their relationship ("The world's major
languages", Bernard Comrie, Ed. -- VERY good). There are lots of ways to keep
your mind exercised.
>> Take a course in your limited "spare time".
>> Then another.
>> and another
>>
>> I did grad school (UC Berkeley) while teaching full time plus running a
>> business, and over 40 years old.
>
> This may be tricky in a country where I do not usefully speak the
> language ...
That's true. Studying the language is one example of "learning" you could
undertake. I remember a teleconference with an Indian colleague some years
ago. He had to drop off early because he was going off to Hebrew class -- he
had recently joined our team in Tel Aviv.
paul
Re: Maynard MaynStream
On Wed, 2020-10-14 at 00:02 +0200, Liam Proven wrote: > On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 at 21:51, Van Snyder via cctalk< > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I have a Maynard MaynStream tape backup unit from the 1980's. > > It uses audio-format cassettes with 1/4" tape, but it's a > > differenttape composition, and the cassette has a notch in it to > > tell the deviceit's not just plain audio tape. The capacity was 80 > > MB per cassette. > > I also have four ISA controller cards, four cables, and > > severalcassettes. We used it for backup with IBM PC/AT boxes many > > years ago. > > Does anybody want it? It seems a shame to throw it in the e-waste > > bin. > > At least offer it for sale! I'll send it for a PDF of a shipping label for a 20" x 10" x 10" 10lb box, your choice of carrier. > I had a later model, which used VHS-C cassettes. I should get > anotherone, as I have a bunch of backup tapes and some stuff on there > isprobably the only copy I own now... >
Re: college study
Take a course in your limited "spare time". Then another. and another I did grad school (UC Berkeley) while teaching full time plus running a business, and over 40 years old. On Wed, 14 Oct 2020, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: This may be tricky in a country where I do not usefully speak the language -- but if we get through the newest pandemic outbreak and out the other side next year some time, when Ada is a little older, it's worth investigating. Thanks for the encouragement. You can do it! START SMALL. One trivial class, first. My father got his PhD at 38, when I was 7 years old He never discussed it with us, but I found out that he had needed the credibility of the degree for getting grants and projects. My grad degrees made NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL in my employment - my experience had already bumped me up to the top of the heap for my teaching job. If your sole motivation is the diploma, then it may be problematic and frustrating. But, if you also want to LEARN the material, then even the tiniest amount at a time eventually adds up. And there are so many things that are FUN to learn. I am still checking the class schedules to see if/when the Computational Linguistics class gets taught again. Also the bookbinding class! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: college study
On Wed, 14 Oct 2020 at 00:19, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > Do you want the degree? > Or do you want to LEARN? Fair! Both. > Take a course in your limited "spare time". > Then another. > and another > > I did grad school (UC Berkeley) while teaching full time plus running a > business, and over 40 years old. This may be tricky in a country where I do not usefully speak the language -- but if we get through the newest pandemic outbreak and out the other side next year some time, when Ada is a little older, it's worth investigating. Thanks for the encouragement. -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: college study
On Tue, 13 Oct 2020, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: I see comments like in this thread a lot, and I have also looked over some modern uni papers and they look straight forward to me. I only have a BSc and I have PhD envy, and occasionally idly considered "dropping out" from work and doing a Master's and a PhD over here in Czechia. Then I unexpectedly had a daughter, at 52, and it's no longer Do you want the degree? Or do you want to LEARN? Take a course in your limited "spare time". Then another. and another I did grad school (UC Berkeley) while teaching full time plus running a business, and over 40 years old. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: Firing up the pdt11
On 13/10/2020 22:28, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Then I guess the question rattling around my brain is "How did I get this Elephant Memory systems disk formatted?" RX01 format is a standard IBM format used by many systems, including many CP/M ones, so it was possible to buy pre-formatted disks. Maybe they came that way. I do have a card around here called an RXV21 from Plessy or something like that, maybe it could talk to an RX01 drive and format the disks? Many 3-party controllers could. Mine isn't a Plessey one, but it can do that - but mine connects to standard SA800-style drives, not an RX02. I also have a Baydel F311 controller, which also can format disks and connects to standard SA800-style drives, but it only does single density. -- Pete Pete Turnbull
Re: Maynard MaynStream
On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 at 21:51, Van Snyder via cctalk wrote: > > I have a Maynard MaynStream tape backup unit from the 1980's. > > It uses audio-format cassettes with 1/4" tape, but it's a different > tape composition, and the cassette has a notch in it to tell the device > it's not just plain audio tape. The capacity was 80 MB per cassette. > > I also have four ISA controller cards, four cables, and several > cassettes. We used it for backup with IBM PC/AT boxes many years ago. > > Does anybody want it? It seems a shame to throw it in the e-waste bin. At least offer it for sale! I had a later model, which used VHS-C cassettes. I should get another one, as I have a bunch of backup tapes and some stuff on there is probably the only copy I own now... -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: college study
On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 at 21:17, Paul Koning via cctalk
wrote:
>
> It depends. In sciences, people understand that it's a lot of work. In what
> Robert Heinlein called the "fuzzy subjects", you can often be a party animal
> who does very little real work and get a degree anyway. If so, it doesn't
> mean you learned anything and it doesn't mean the field you picked as a major
> has any merit or usefulness.
I see comments like in this thread a lot, and I have also looked over
some modern uni papers and they look straight forward to me. I only
have a BSc and I have PhD envy, and occasionally idly considered
"dropping out" from work and doing a Master's and a PhD over here in
Czechia. Then I unexpectedly had a daughter, at 52, and it's no longer
an option.
But the thing is -- over here in the former communist bloc, people are
even keener on education and degrees than back in the West. (I had to
bring my degree certificate to prove I had one!) Study is free or very
cheap and not time-limited; I know of people who have been at uni for
over a decade.
*But* saying that, I taught English for a year or so over here, and 2
of my students were also full-time uni students. One was studying
English, because she wanted to be a TEFL teacher. It was her 3rd
attempt at a degree.
Another did physics, dropped out, then did maths, dropped out, then
did computer science, and dropped out.
The real core point of a degree, I feel, is that it shows that you can
pick a subject, knuckle down, study it for several years, subject
yourself to the stress of exams and theses and so on, and _keep doing
it until you have one_.
This is _not_ an idle threat. I personally know smart, motivated
people who just did not have that degree of self-control and
self-discipline.
I also have a friend with quite severe ADHD who has a good history
degree. He has _very little_ self-control and a butterfly mind, but
the point is, he knew he needed it so he got his head down and did it.
So, yes, they _do_ seem easier now than when I did mine in the late
1980s, but they are still hard and still take a long time and they
_do_ select people -- or *deselect* people.
And as for the "soft" studies, the oft-mocked arts and so on... well,
I had friends at Uni who did maths or comp-sci, and some were
_startlingly_ ignorant of the world around them, because _all_ they
knew was maths. I had a close friend -- who still is, nearly 40y later
-- who did English. He had a laughable lecture load of an hour or
90min a week, and moved to a house 30 miles and a couple of hours'
travel away. But the amount of reading he was expected to do was
extremely intimidating. I'm a speed-reader; I did most of the optional
reading for all my courses, including my Eng Lit "high school"
course. ('A'-level, for the English.) My friend did about 10x more
than that or more. Consistently several long dense books a week for 3
years, holidays/vacation included. Not trivial at all!
And long after, I befriended 2 young chaps via a wonderful
organization I was extremely peripherally involved in founding and
running -- Skeptics in the Pub. These guys were friends of each other
from Uni, where they both did Media Studies, a subject I'd always
regarded as a bit of a joke.
I learned something from them. I was wrong. They're both very smart,
and their knowledge and erudition was astonishing. Far far more than
my English-degree olding friend, who even now in his 50s is an
unworldly ingenue. Alex and Jonathan had a good solid grasp of world
communications and affairs going back 50 years -- they could, for
instance, pick up subsconscious references or quotations or
paraphrases from minor TV series that I watched decades before they
were born, and not only that, tell me who acted in, wrote and directed
it. They knew science communications, good and bad, and how it should
be done, and the problems, and the core stuff that it needed. They
knew print fiction and poetry and song and theatre and classic and
modern painting and sculpture and so on.
The point I took away from this is that *if* you're genuinely
interested and *if* you genuinely work on this kind of study, it _is_
very much real, valid and important, and the resultant knowledge and
understanding are profound and valid and useful.
In our current world of "fake news" and biased reporting and
politicians cuddled up with media conglomerates, of foreign nations
using paid posters on social networks to influence social opinions, of
people inserting falsehoods into online references, inventing scare
stories and spreading them online, all this sort of thing -- people
who _know_ and truly understand and can dissect and if needed
manipulate "The Media" are essential.
So, yes, I no longer mock the "soft sciences" and the liberal arts and
humanities as much as I did. I've come to see it's not an easy or
lightweight option, it's hard and it's arguably important and
certainly worthwhile.
Yes, true, smart students can coast through. But that's
Re: Firing up the pdt11
> DEC controllers and DEC 8" drives cannot. Not for any platform. > > Back in the day, DEC floppy users purchased pre-formatted floppies. > If you had an RX02, you could "INIT" an RX01 floppy to RX02 use - > essentially just rewriting the data portion of the sector to > double-density (256 bytes per sector) and I _think_ it's possible to > put it back. Then I guess the question rattling around my brain is "How did I get this Elephant Memory systems disk formatted?" I know I didn't have an RX02 at the time, and I know DEC didn't do it for me as a favor. I know I bought a box of ten of them because I stuck the Elephant Memory Systems sticker on the front of my RM02 for good luck (I wonder where that drive is these days) I thought that is why I kept the PDT11 around. I do have a card around here called an RXV21 from Plessy or something like that, maybe it could talk to an RX01 drive and format the disks? Darn brain, there's a hole in it somewhere around this seemingly not-interesting fact. The disk though is still here, and is formatted RX01 with programs I wrote to it 30 years ago. I did have an H11 computer, but it did not have the H27 disk drive, or at least I have no memory of owning one after looking at that one on Ebay. In a practical sense, I really don't need to format anything anymore: The best use for the RX01 is to bootstrap BRUSYS so I can backup the EDSI disk with the TK50. Reading old disks is nice, but the first thing I do is create a .DSK image of them on a real disk. In theory it is handy to have a small capacity disk to do image transfers from SIMH using the PDP11GUI but now that I have Kermit up I can just transfer stuff that way Anyone want a pile of old RX02 formatted disks? I'll trade them for a few RX01 floppies just to have and to make PD: bootable disks for all the MiniMINCs out there. Back in the day, DEC floppy users purchased pre-formatted floppies. If you had an RX02, you could "INIT" an RX01 floppy to RX02 use - essentially just rewriting the data portion of the sector to double-density (256 bytes per sector) and I _think_ it's possible to put it back. Hm. Well at least that makes disk alignments a lot simpler: If all the disks were originally formatted at DEC then interchange is pretty much guaranteed. Ah DEC. Always wanted to get that last nickel from their user base. CZ
Re: Firing up the pdt11
On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 7:15 PM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > Well, the drive is working. Better... Excellent! > I've heard that the RX02 can format an RX01, but can it? Nope. There were 3rd party controllers that could format 8" media in DEC machines (DSD for one). DEC controllers and DEC 8" drives cannot. Not for any platform. Back in the day, DEC floppy users purchased pre-formatted floppies. If you had an RX02, you could "INIT" an RX01 floppy to RX02 use - essentially just rewriting the data portion of the sector to double-density (256 bytes per sector) and I _think_ it's possible to put it back. CP/M users could and did buy blank media and format it. -ethan
Maynard MaynStream
I have a Maynard MaynStream tape backup unit from the 1980's. It uses audio-format cassettes with 1/4" tape, but it's a different tape composition, and the cassette has a notch in it to tell the device it's not just plain audio tape. The capacity was 80 MB per cassette. I also have four ISA controller cards, four cables, and several cassettes. We used it for backup with IBM PC/AT boxes many years ago. Does anybody want it? It seems a shame to throw it in the e-waste bin. Van Snyder van.sny...@sbcglobal.net
Re: college study
On 10/13/20 12:25 PM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: > On 13/10/2020 20:14, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> As evidenced in many areas. For example, a DMA degree does not >> guarantee one a performing gig. It may not even guarantee a teaching >> gig. > > > Is a DMA degree one where some other entity does all the work but the > degree ends up in the right place? :-) An apology--I forgot to elaborate: DMA = Doctor of Musical Arts. One can get such a degree from a university without having much real talent...but the same can be said of many fields of study. I once worked with an EE who was a secret Juilliard grad in piano. I didn't know he could play--and neither did any of his friends--or his wife. He didn't eve own a piano. We didn't find out until there was a party at one of my co-workers. One of those affairs where booze flows freely and musical instruments are scattered about for anyone who would like to perform or accompany someone. These were all computer people. Said fellow observed me noodling around on the ivories mangling some ragtime piece. He was pretty soused and sat down next to me and asked if there was anything that I'd like to hear him play. I suggested the Bach Goldberg variations in jest. He tore right off on them, from the aria to the quodlibet, not even pausing to recall. His wife was beside herself and nearly in shock. He never discussed it again. --Chuck
Re: college study
On 13/10/2020 20:14, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: As evidenced in many areas. For example, a DMA degree does not guarantee one a performing gig. It may not even guarantee a teaching gig. Is a DMA degree one where some other entity does all the work but the degree ends up in the right place? :-) Antonio -- Antonio Carlini anto...@acarlini.com
Re: college study
> On Oct 13, 2020, at 2:50 PM, Cindy Croxton via cctalk > wrote: > > ... > My college friend says Wow, that is a LOT of work! > > Is there an expectation now that being educated is NOT a lot of work? It depends. In sciences, people understand that it's a lot of work. In what Robert Heinlein called the "fuzzy subjects", you can often be a party animal who does very little real work and get a degree anyway. If so, it doesn't mean you learned anything and it doesn't mean the field you picked as a major has any merit or usefulness. paul
Re: college study
On 10/13/20 11:56 AM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > My opinion, based on my experience: > There is an expectation that getting a degree is not, or should not be, a lot > of work. Many people confuse getting a degree with getting an education. As evidenced in many areas. For example, a DMA degree does not guarantee one a performing gig. It may not even guarantee a teaching gig. I know of a few engineers who went back to school after getting a DMA in order to find a regular paying job. Indeed, when I was a young man, almost nobody in my department had a degree in Computer Science. It lent a great deal of variety to the work environment. --Chuck
Re: college study
> On 10/13/2020 1:50 PM Cindy Croxton via cctalk wrote: > > > My grandfather wrote a book, "This is the Way to Study" > > ... > My college friend says Wow, that is a LOT of work! > > Is there an expectation now that being educated is NOT a lot of work? > > -- > My opinion, based on my experience: There is an expectation that getting a degree is not, or should not be, a lot of work. Many people confuse getting a degree with getting an education. Will
college study
My grandfather wrote a book, "This is the Way to Study" SQ3R was the system Study, Question, Read, Write, Review Look over the chapter, read the captions of the pics, look at the bold text then make notes of questions for things that pop up Then Read the chapter through Write down more questions read again to find your answers then do the problems at the end of the chapter look over everything again, and see if u understand it all have someone else quiz u, if needed then review it all, and u should have a good grasp on it My college friend says Wow, that is a LOT of work! Is there an expectation now that being educated is NOT a lot of work? -- Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 direct
Re: Tutor needed for college student
On 10/12/20 5:43 PM, dwight wrote: Remakable. It was not the descrete math I know, then. It would vary heavy on logic and set theory stuff. Not the kind of stuff I deal with at work. It was a long time ago though. Things have changed. The closest we go to a real computer was a Monrow calculator. I used to laugh when I heard students (Freshman who had not actually started CS classes yet) talking among themselves about how this was totally unrelated to CS so why do they have to take it. I started in CS before I had any kind of degree so taking college courses later was like finishing up the documentation on a project. When I took Discrete Math I was amazed at how much of it applied to my everyday job in IT. Venn Diagrams and writing SQL queries. Node Diagrams and linked lists or network architecture. And the list goes on and on. Yes, I did the job without having taken a Discrete Math course, but that doesn't mean I didn't learn it. I just learned it like everything else. The hard way on the job learning from my mistakes. I didn't take any college level programming courses until after 20 years of doing the job. But that doesn't necessarily mean the courses are unneeded. bill Dwight *From:* cctalk on behalf of Bill Gunshannon via cctalk *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 1:54 PM *To:* cctalk@classiccmp.org *Subject:* Re: Tutor needed for college student On 10/12/20 4:29 PM, dwight via cctalk wrote: I'm not too sure Hackers will have someone that is into Discrete Math. It is way beyond what a typical engineer will go through to get a degree. It is not a course someone would take without expecting to get into theoretical mathematics. Seriously? Every CS and CIS student at the University where I worked for 25 years had to take Discrete Math. I am sure most other engineering disciplines required it, too but I would have to look it up to be sure. bill
Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 73, Issue 11
I suspect much of the electronics is fine. It would be good for someone wanting backup cards. You must be joking. Those cards are done. Any chip that is still operational will likely fail upon or shortly after power is applied. Most components can stand soldering temperatures. It is clear that it was only hot enough to melt plastics. That isn't even hot enough to damage boards. I have physically seen the equipment in question, in the warehouse. A few of the cards in the cage may still be salvageable - maybe, with some very powerful juju. But much of the hardware is damaged *far* beyond any hope of recovery. As Jim says, the ~~ Mark Moulding
Re: Looking For Computer Automation LSI-3/05 Documentation
On Thu, Oct 08, 2020 at 11:57:01PM +, TangentDelta via cctalk wrote: > Hello. > > I have two card cages out of a pair of Linotron 202 phototypesetting > machines, and have been hunting for documentation for the Naked Mini systems > used in them for over a year now. The Computer Automation CPU boards in the > systems have been a complete mystery to me until recently. To make a long > story short, I happened to stumble across the patent for the machine > (https://patents.google.com/patent/US4254468A/en), which has the same bus > configuration as my card cages, and also provides some good evidence that > "Naked Milli" 3/05 CPU boards were used. > I've found documentation for the LSI 3/05's instruction set and an > informative brochure, but nothing technical. Bitsavers has been a great help > in my efforts to uncover more information about this processor, but there's > still a lot of technical information that has eluded me (such as the autoload > ROM, and how its data is arranged). The LSI-series computer handbook mentions > a dedicated manual for the LSI 3/05, but I haven't found anything else about > it online. > > If anyone has any information about the LSI 3/05, or where I might look for > the manual, it'd be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks. Hi This seems to be mostly about the Naked Mini 4. But perhaps you can find something useful: http://www.update.uu.se/~pontus/CA-mirror/www.sdu.se/ or maybe here: ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pontus/alpha_lsi Regards, Pontus
