Re: [simh] RSTS processor identification
On 2021-03-07 23:00, Paul Koning wrote: On Mar 5, 2021, at 9:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2021-03-06 02:33, Paul Koning wrote: ... I would have liked better comms. The USART has such a tiny FIFO that you can't run it at higher than 9600 bps even with the J-11 CPU. At least not with RSTS; perhaps a lighter weight OS can do better. The printer port is worse, that one can't run DDCMP reliably at more than 4800 bps. I normally run DDCMP on the PC3XC, which is a 4-line serial card that uses two dual UART chips (2681?) with reasonable FIFO. Hmm. I'm pretty sure I was running my -380 with the printer port for DDCMP on HECnet for a while, and at 9600 bps. DDCMP runs fairly well on RSTS with the printer port at 9600, but I get some overruns. My guess is that the terminal driver (which is front ending the DDCMP machinery) isn't as lightweight as the equivalent on RSX. Or do you bypass the terminal driver and get a separate comms-specific driver for this case? I realized I might have spoken too soon. There is also a comm port, and now I'm unsure if DECnet isn't running over that one actually. Anyway, in RSX, when running DDCMP on the serial port, DECnet has its own device driver. So not talking through any terminal device driver, which have all kind of features and capabilities expected for a terminal line. Same with normal RSX, which is why you have to dedicate the whole controller to either DECnet or TT. You can't mix. But with P/OS, you are not using the console port as such. That's all on the graphics side. But unless I'm confused, that's the same port. The printer port just can also be the console port, if you short pins 8-9, right? Except it won't fully work the same as the DL11, since interrupts work differently. But polled I/O will work the same. But I would expect the speed characteristics to be the same for the console as for the printer port. Correct, printer and console are actually the same thing. If you use the console cable (pin 8 connected to 9) then that materializes a DL11-like CSR set at 177560. Yes, with polled I/O such as the ODT microcode uses that works just like a real DL11, but for interrupts it's different. In RSTS, either way that port becomes a terminal port. RSTS does have support for the graphics module, in "glass TTY" mode within the initialization code and full VT220 emulation in RSTS proper. Well, except for blink mode, and no bold in 132 column mode. Well, in P/OS you do have the option of also play graphics, and do different resolutions. But the "terminal" handling for it have similar limitations. I think blink isn't working the same as in a VT100, nor is reverse (if I remember correctly). And of course, smooth scrolling do not work you you don't scroll the whole screen, since the hardware isn't capable, and doing it in software would be way too slow. There was even a window system available, which sortof reminds of Windows before 3.1. Played a little with it. It works, but it's a bit limited. But from the pure graphics point of view, it's nice. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Re: [simh] RSTS processor identification
> On Mar 5, 2021, at 9:02 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > On 2021-03-06 02:33, Paul Koning wrote: >>> ... > >> I would have liked better comms. The USART has such a tiny FIFO that you >> can't run it at higher than 9600 bps even with the J-11 CPU. At least not >> with RSTS; perhaps a lighter weight OS can do better. The printer port is >> worse, that one can't run DDCMP reliably at more than 4800 bps. I normally >> run DDCMP on the PC3XC, which is a 4-line serial card that uses two dual >> UART chips (2681?) with reasonable FIFO. > > Hmm. I'm pretty sure I was running my -380 with the printer port for DDCMP on > HECnet for a while, and at 9600 bps. DDCMP runs fairly well on RSTS with the printer port at 9600, but I get some overruns. My guess is that the terminal driver (which is front ending the DDCMP machinery) isn't as lightweight as the equivalent on RSX. Or do you bypass the terminal driver and get a separate comms-specific driver for this case? > But with P/OS, you are not using the console port as such. That's all on the > graphics side. > But unless I'm confused, that's the same port. The printer port just can also > be the console port, if you short pins 8-9, right? Except it won't fully work > the same as the DL11, since interrupts work differently. But polled I/O will > work the same. > But I would expect the speed characteristics to be the same for the console > as for the printer port. Correct, printer and console are actually the same thing. If you use the console cable (pin 8 connected to 9) then that materializes a DL11-like CSR set at 177560. Yes, with polled I/O such as the ODT microcode uses that works just like a real DL11, but for interrupts it's different. In RSTS, either way that port becomes a terminal port. RSTS does have support for the graphics module, in "glass TTY" mode within the initialization code and full VT220 emulation in RSTS proper. Well, except for blink mode, and no bold in 132 column mode. paul
Re: Vax/pdp on ebay
On 07/03/2021 21:31, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Sold for $4,900. Looks like a couple of low score bidders got in a > bidding war and really wanted to win. Must be those deskthority people _really_ wanted those '220 keyboards. :) On UK epay, an LK201 fetches maybe £25 - £50. Pity, I have a few that might work once the dirt is cleaned off ... I'd be willing to trade for a small PDP-11 :-) Antonio -- Antonio Carlini anto...@acarlini.com
Re: Vax/pdp on ebay
> Sold for $4,900. Looks like a couple of low score bidders got in a > bidding war and really wanted to win. Must be those deskthority people _really_ wanted those '220 keyboards. :) De
Re: Vax/pdp on ebay
On 3/7/2021 1:56 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 11:25 PM Wayne S via cctalk wrote: Is anyone from this list bidding on this. If so i’ll back out. Just don’t want it to be “recycled “ and i have room for it. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-DEC-BA23-Lot-Micro-PDP-11-73-VAXstation-3200-x2-VT220-x2-Extras-Docs/224368924502?hash=item343d6e1756:g:zp8AAOSwvWNgO9qe Sold for $4,900. Looks like a couple of low score bidders got in a bidding war and really wanted to win. Nice bit of kit to jumpstart a QBus VAX / PDP collection, but that price seems just a tad bit too much... At least I doubt it will be getting recycled anytime soon. I was watching the auction because I thought I might bid. Silly me. :-) With 15 minutes to go, it was $595. At 10 minutes it was up around $1200. The last 2 minutes were something to watch as the price jumped to $2000, then $2400, $2700, $3700 and higher. The last 15 seconds saw the price soar through the $4000's and nearly make it to $5000. By then, I was hoping to see it that $5000 mark but it fell just short. -- John H. Reinhardt
Re: Vax/pdp on ebay
*Wow* That's a bit much. On 3/7/2021 2:56 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 11:25 PM Wayne S via cctalk wrote: Is anyone from this list bidding on this. If so i’ll back out. Just don’t want it to be “recycled “ and i have room for it. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-DEC-BA23-Lot-Micro-PDP-11-73-VAXstation-3200-x2-VT220-x2-Extras-Docs/224368924502?hash=item343d6e1756:g:zp8AAOSwvWNgO9qe Sold for $4,900. Looks like a couple of low score bidders got in a bidding war and really wanted to win. Nice bit of kit to jumpstart a QBus VAX / PDP collection, but that price seems just a tad bit too much... At least I doubt it will be getting recycled anytime soon.
Re: Vax/pdp on ebay
On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 11:25 PM Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > > Is anyone from this list bidding on this. > If so i’ll back out. Just don’t want it to be “recycled “ and i have room for > it. > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-DEC-BA23-Lot-Micro-PDP-11-73-VAXstation-3200-x2-VT220-x2-Extras-Docs/224368924502?hash=item343d6e1756:g:zp8AAOSwvWNgO9qe > Sold for $4,900. Looks like a couple of low score bidders got in a bidding war and really wanted to win. Nice bit of kit to jumpstart a QBus VAX / PDP collection, but that price seems just a tad bit too much... At least I doubt it will be getting recycled anytime soon.
Re: digital group's Richard Bemis
> > I merely wanted to point out the ambiguity in the original message, > though... > Every time I ran across "DG" in there I had to stop because I mentally filled in "Data General" at first. I have one of their dual 8" floppy drives for a Z80 machine. Be interesting to see the final video.
Re: PIC programmers? More generic programmer? Port?
On Sat, 2021-03-06 at 10:13 -0800, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > It should be possible to do the same using a Blue Pill cheapie and > MAX232 level shifter. Still if this is a one-off, I doubt that it > would matter to the user. That's what I had started thinking. Use the STM32 board with the built in 3 UARTS (yes, I know you can bit-bang, but why not use em if you got em?) and one of those cheapie DC-DC switching converter boards plus a MAX232. Don't need to get any expensive programming stuff then (yeah, $65 is a great deal compared to what they were in the '90s, but still it is COVIDtime), and less outlay for supplies. Easy for others to make too. Have a question - for PS/2 the power-on handshake the byte sent is 0xAA per my reference. The keyboard(7) manpage gets a little coy here for the IRIS keyboard, with a unnamed first byte and a second byte that sends keyboard configuration information. Anyone know what that first byte on the IRIS side is? I want to have the adapter do the handshaking if possible to enable KVM use. > > FWIW, I did the PC AT/PS2 to PC XT keyboard converter years ago > using > the cheapest PIC I could find--a 12F629--and I still had program > memory > left over. A cap, a diode and a resistor were the only external > components. > > --Chuck >
Re: Spelunking the places where files are not
At 07:55 PM 3/6/2021, John Foust via cctalk wrote: >And I guess I hadn't thought of that case where the file system >named the number of bytes in the file and that the unused ends >of blocks could also contain stuff, too. Is there a name for those bytes? An interesting analysis of "slack bytes" on the IBM DOS 1.0 disks. https://thestarman.pcministry.com/DOS/ibm100/Exam.htm - John
Re: 80286 Protected Mode Test
> From: Jim Stephens > The 286 can exit protected mode with the LOADALL instruction. Really? So why all the hullabaloo about Triple Faults: http://www.rcollins.org/Productivity/TripleFault.html back in the day; and why did IBM set up the keyboard controller so it could send a RESET signal (so people could get out of protected mode)? Or is it that LOADALL (which was also undocumented early on, so maybe that's why the IBM thing) could be used to cause a triple fault? Noel
RE: 80286 Protected Mode Test
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Fred Cisin via > cctalk > Sent: 06 March 2021 23:17 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: 80286 Protected Mode Test > > A stupid idea: > Could the test require, and be failing, access to memory above 1M? > I think that is unlikely because the board comes with 1M onboard and I believe the system is designed to work with just that memory. I can try it though if I can find compatible 30-pin simms (I do have some somewhere). Curious why you think it might require access to memory above 1M though? I am currently working to the hypothesis that it needs the non-volatile memory to work to remember that the reset was part of the POST. The NVR is provided by the RTC element of the 82C206 chip. I may have to get the logic analyser out to see if that is happening or not, but at the moment I still have an intermittent problem getting the board to start at all, I think due to my poor work on the repair wires for the damaged tracks. Regards Rob > > On Sat, 6 Mar 2021, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: > > > I have a DECstation 220 (Olivetti M250E) which is failing POST on a > > "simple test of the 80286 protected mode". It says in a service manual > > I have that for this test the CPU is set in the protected mode, the > > machine status word is checked to see whether it indicates the > > protected mode and then exits protected mode. This test seems to be > > failing. Is there any possible explanation for this other than a > > failed 80286 CPU? Could there be any external reason? This board > > suffered some battery leak damage. Clearly the > > 80286 is working well enough to execute this diagnostic and send some > > text to the screen, so it basically works. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Rob
Re: Tymshare PDP-10 tapes
The tapes are now hosted here: http://vtda.org/bits/software/DEC/PDP-10/tymshare/
Re: Tymshare PDP-10 tapes
Jim Carpenter wrote: > Tony Aiuto wrote: >> I think that is an artifact of the files being created with the wrong >> names. For example, with tape 169249, after you skip the UFDs, tito >> -t prints >> >>(SYS).SHR1977-01-26 22:22 [1,4] >> [...] >> >> All the file names are missing. That seems not right. > > Very not right, because this is what tito -t is giving me: > >(SYS) PIP .SHR1977-01-26 22:22 [1,4] > [...] I have no idea what could make that happen. I made some improvements to tito.c, so please try the latest version. (I also have a dart.c in the works for WAITS tapes. Mostly useful if you're running WAITS and want to transfer files in and out.)
