Re: DF32?
On 3/9/21 5:49 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Interesting document Al. Reading about the RK05, it seems to be little more than a double density version of the RK8/RK03(?) Was that a Diablo drive or a Pertec? RK03 was a Diablo. The big difference was the linear voice coil motor in the RK05, similar to the PERTEC D3000 and it being DEC's first in-house moving head disk design.
Re: DF32?
remided me of the problems with rhodium plating on RF08 drives here on page 9 http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2012/08/102746014-05-01-acc.pdf Interesting document Al. Reading about the RK05, it seems to be little more than a double density version of the RK8/RK03(?) Was that a Diablo drive or a Pertec? C (Had an RK8, big square drive number buttons with lights in them)
Re: DF32?
On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 6:38 PM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > Sure, a generalization of Dave Gesswein's MFM emulator. I was just > looking the other day how practical it would be for such a device to do an > RK05 emulation. The answer seems to be: quite practical. > Dave made a DF32/DS32 emulator: https://www.pdp8online.com/dfds32/emulator/index.shtml Constructing an RK05 emulator would be very handy, for sure. I have toyed with the idea for those that want to spin rust on a PDP-8 (but only have 12-sector packs) to have a timing converter within the RK05 that uses a PLL to generate 16 sector pulses from 12, and can auto-detect when a real 16-sector pack is spinning (to pass the sector pulses through directly). Has this been done? Kyle
Re: DF32?
> On Mar 9, 2021, at 8:32 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk > wrote: > >> Really? The very similar RS64, as well as the RS11, both had a formatter >> device that field service could use to write the timing tracks if they were >> lost. Or, for that matter, if the platter had to be replaced, since it >> arrived from the factory totally blank. > > Oh, sorry, meant the data was lost. I don't think it had the formatter on the > unit though. Right, the formatter was a piece of field service hardware. I think typically it had to be shipped up from Maynard, there wasn't enough call for them to have them at each field office. One oddity is that the timing track clock frequency on those writers is variable. The device would write the correct number of timing pulses and then read the timing track to verify the length of the gap at the end. Lights would indicate whether the gap was too small, correct, or too long, and you'd adjust the frequency knob accordingly until the "ok" light came on. It's documented in the maintenance manual. I read it long before I saw it done, and was amazed that yes, it actually work just as strangely as what the manual claims. Judging by the block diagram in the manual, you could build your own in an afternoon or two. >> Sure, a generalization of Dave Gesswein's MFM emulator. I was just looking >> the other day how practical it would be for such a device to do an RK05 >> emulation. The answer seems to be: quite practical. > > The MFM emulator is an amazing bit of kit. It certainly is. It works wonderfully well. paul
Re: DF32?
On 3/9/21 5:32 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Oh, sorry, meant the data was lost. I don't think it had the formatter on the unit though. track writers were something not even every field office had we had to borrow one from Chicago because the Milwaukee office didn't have one i know I have the track writer box schematics around somewhere
Re: DF32?
Really? The very similar RS64, as well as the RS11, both had a formatter device that field service could use to write the timing tracks if they were lost. Or, for that matter, if the platter had to be replaced, since it arrived from the factory totally blank. Oh, sorry, meant the data was lost. I don't think it had the formatter on the unit though. Sure, a generalization of Dave Gesswein's MFM emulator. I was just looking the other day how practical it would be for such a device to do an RK05 emulation. The answer seems to be: quite practical. The MFM emulator is an amazing bit of kit.
Re: DF32?
On 3/9/21 4:45 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: the platter looks like it's been blued like old style firearms. paul remided me of the problems with rhodium plating on RF08 drives here on page 9 http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2012/08/102746014-05-01-acc.pdf
Re: DF32?
> On Mar 9, 2021, at 7:38 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > > > >> On Mar 9, 2021, at 6:53 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk >> wrote: >> >>> So did one you bid over $1500? >> >> Not me. $1k would have been my limit, it's really kind of insane to run >> something like that. As I put on my old memory hat I remember that the >> platter would rust but at least the heads would not weld to the platter. > > Hm. I know we had that exact problem in college with an RS11 disk (on our > RSTS system). That required replacing the heads, platter, and I think motor. I meant that I have experienced welding of the heads. I haven't seen rusting, though I could believe that it's possible -- the platter looks like it's been blued like old style firearms. paul
Re: DF32?
> On Mar 9, 2021, at 6:53 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk > wrote: > >> So did one you bid over $1500? > > Not me. $1k would have been my limit, it's really kind of insane to run > something like that. As I put on my old memory hat I remember that the > platter would rust but at least the heads would not weld to the platter. Hm. I know we had that exact problem in college with an RS11 disk (on our RSTS system). That required replacing the heads, platter, and I think motor. > > Also there were two timing tracks on it and if they were toast the platter > was as well. Really? The very similar RS64, as well as the RS11, both had a formatter device that field service could use to write the timing tracks if they were lost. Or, for that matter, if the platter had to be replaced, since it arrived from the factory totally blank. > Although these days you could probably just build a formatter for it from a > Beaglebone and reformat. But at that point you could just have the BB spit > out the head data right to the controller. And you could just replace the > whole thing with a BB that could replicate every disk drive DEC made for the > pdp8. Sure, a generalization of Dave Gesswein's MFM emulator. I was just looking the other day how practical it would be for such a device to do an RK05 emulation. The answer seems to be: quite practical. paul
Re: DF32?
I feel kinda stupid, given that the thing's original BIN was $1500; I wasn't going to go that high on it but a friend of mine offered to chip in at the last minute so I got outbid by $25 over the original BIN price. No, someone with an unlimited amount of $$$ did a last minute snipe bid. Good strategy, but the limit could have been 2k, 10k 100k. Never know. It's OK, I have enough projects as it is and I definitely didn't need to spend more money. Yep I have to get the 8/L's working first...
Re: DF32?
On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:39 PM Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 6:10 PM Josh Dersch via cctalk > wrote: > > I have a bid on it right now, I was hoping to use it with my straight-8, > > should I be so lucky to win it. Don't want to collide with you, > however... > > > > - Josh > > > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:04 PM Chris Zach via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > There's a DF32 on Ebay. I've got a bid in on it, will see what happens. > > So did one you bid over $1500? > Not I. I wonder what the high bidder's max was... I feel kinda stupid, given that the thing's original BIN was $1500; I wasn't going to go that high on it but a friend of mine offered to chip in at the last minute so I got outbid by $25 over the original BIN price. It's OK, I have enough projects as it is and I definitely didn't need to spend more money. - Josh > > -ethan >
Re: DF32?
So did one you bid over $1500? Not me. $1k would have been my limit, it's really kind of insane to run something like that. As I put on my old memory hat I remember that the platter would rust but at least the heads would not weld to the platter. Also there were two timing tracks on it and if they were toast the platter was as well. Although these days you could probably just build a formatter for it from a Beaglebone and reformat. But at that point you could just have the BB spit out the head data right to the controller. And you could just replace the whole thing with a BB that could replicate every disk drive DEC made for the pdp8. Not every model, every drive ever sold :-) C -ethan
Re: DF32?
On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 6:10 PM Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > I have a bid on it right now, I was hoping to use it with my straight-8, > should I be so lucky to win it. Don't want to collide with you, however... > > - Josh > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:04 PM Chris Zach via cctalk > wrote: > > There's a DF32 on Ebay. I've got a bid in on it, will see what happens. So did one you bid over $1500? -ethan
Re: DF32?
On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 4:04 PM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > There's a DF32 on Ebay. I've got a bid in on it, will see what happens. > Always wanted on, to set up a TSS/8. I hope one of you guys gets it and can put it to good use.
Re: DF32?
Jesus that went insane. I did not bid on it and would not have gone above 1k anyway. Hope you got it. C On 3/9/2021 6:10 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: I have a bid on it right now, I was hoping to use it with my straight-8, should I be so lucky to win it. Don't want to collide with you, however... - Josh On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:04 PM Chris Zach via cctalk mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: There's a DF32 on Ebay. I've got a bid in on it, will see what happens. In the unlikely event I win I'll have to build a system to adapt the Negibus to the pdp8/L. However did the pdp8/L have 3 cycle data break? C
Re: DF32?
I dropped. On 3/9/2021 6:10 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: I have a bid on it right now, I was hoping to use it with my straight-8, should I be so lucky to win it. Don't want to collide with you, however... - Josh On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:04 PM Chris Zach via cctalk mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: There's a DF32 on Ebay. I've got a bid in on it, will see what happens. In the unlikely event I win I'll have to build a system to adapt the Negibus to the pdp8/L. However did the pdp8/L have 3 cycle data break? C
Re: DF32?
I have a bid on it right now, I was hoping to use it with my straight-8, should I be so lucky to win it. Don't want to collide with you, however... - Josh On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:04 PM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > There's a DF32 on Ebay. I've got a bid in on it, will see what happens. > > In the unlikely event I win I'll have to build a system to adapt the > Negibus to the pdp8/L. However did the pdp8/L have 3 cycle data break? > > C >
DF32?
There's a DF32 on Ebay. I've got a bid in on it, will see what happens. In the unlikely event I win I'll have to build a system to adapt the Negibus to the pdp8/L. However did the pdp8/L have 3 cycle data break? C
Re: Need to have a roll of paper punch tape read by a tape reader and printed
I'm in the US, and have a couple people already volunteering their help. Thanks, anyway. Gary Gary From: Camiel Vanderhoeven Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:03:35 AM To: Gary Dye ; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Need to have a roll of paper punch tape read by a tape reader and printed Gary, I don't know if you're in Europe or elsewhere. I'm in the Netherlands, and I could do that free of charge. I'd also make a video recording of the process for your sons education. Camiel From: cctech on behalf of Gary Dye via cctech Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 11:30 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Need to have a roll of paper punch tape read by a tape reader and printed Hi folks. I wrote a basketball program in Basic over 40 years ago in high school. I printed the 13 pages of code, and produced a roll of paper punch tape of the code, but the 13 pages were destroyed, leaving me with only the paper tape. My 14-year-old son was pretty fascinated to see the roll of computer punch tape -- paper with holes in it! -- that we used to store files in the old days. And that we didn't have computer screens, but only a teletype element that printed -- one letter at a time -- the back-and-forth information between the timeshare computer and the teletype (output). This paper punch tape is the Basic program that I wrote in high school that played a random basketball game (as called by Bill Schonely, radio voice of the Portland Trailblazers). I'm trying to find someone to run it through a tape reader so that I can retrieve the code and play the game again. I'm hoping to explain the code to Owen so that he might understand the power of coding and get interested in coding. Is there anyone out there that I can send my roll of paper tape to such that the code can be restored? I could pay some compensation for your troubles. Much appreciated, Gary This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain privileged, confidential, proprietary, private, copyrighted, or other legally protected information. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity designated above. If you are not the intended recipient (even if the e-mail address above is yours), please notify us by return e-mail immediately, and delete the message and any attachments. Any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this message or any attachments by an individual or entity other than the intended recipient is prohibited.
Re: Need to have a roll of paper punch tape read by a tape reader and printed
OOPS on my last response... I should have said I found the original on the CCTECH archive. Hope there was no confusion there!
Re: Need to have a roll of paper punch tape read by a tape reader and printed
FWIW, I went back to the CCTALK archives and could not find the original message either. Being curious, I went back to the CCTALK archives and there it was. Hi folks. I wrote a basketball program in Basic over 40 years ago in high school. I printed the 13 pages of code, and produced a roll of paper punch tape of the code, but the 13 pages were destroyed, leaving me with only the paper tape. My 14-year-old son was pretty fascinated to see the roll of computer punch tape -- paper with holes in it! -- that we used to store files in the old days. And that we didn't have computer screens, but only a teletype element that printed -- one letter at a time -- the back-and-forth information between the timeshare computer and the teletype (output). This paper punch tape is the Basic program that I wrote in high school that played a random basketball game (as called by Bill Schonely, radio voice of the Portland Trailblazers). I'm trying to find someone to run it through a tape reader so that I can retrieve the code and play the game again. I'm hoping to explain the code to Owen so that he might understand the power of coding and get interested in coding. Is there anyone out there that I can send my roll of paper tape to such that the code can be restored? I could pay some compensation for your troubles. Much appreciated, Gary
Re: Need to have a roll of paper punch tape read by a tape reader and printed
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021, Vincent Slyngstad wrote: I am a cctalk subscriber, but I don't seem to be getting messages reliably any more. So, I'm replying to the reply, as I never got the original query. Interesting, I did not get the original message either... Christian
Re: Need to have a roll of paper punch tape read by a tape reader and printed
Sorry Vince & Gary, it was my fault that the original cctalk posting was deleted amongst the spam. It did get to cctech which is where Camiel saw it. But before I could ask Gary to re-post, Camiel had replied so I figured that everyone would get to see that. Lawrence On 9/03/21 9:41 am, Vincent Slyngstad via cctech wrote: I am a cctalk subscriber, but I don't seem to be getting messages reliably any more. So, I'm replying to the reply, as I never got the original query. Anyway Gary, I'm in Beaverton OR, USA and so quite possibly local, and I can read your paper tape easily enough. Email or a thumb drive or whatever so you can print out the result. I don't think my Teletype is in good enough shape at the moment to make you a period correct print-out, though. Vince On 3/9/2021 12:03 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctech wrote: Gary, I don't know if you're in Europe or elsewhere. I'm in the Netherlands, and I could do that free of charge. I'd also make a video recording of the process for your sons education. Camiel From: cctech on behalf of Gary Dye via cctech Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 11:30 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Need to have a roll of paper punch tape read by a tape reader and printed Hi folks. I wrote a basketball program in Basic over 40 years ago in high school. I printed the 13 pages of code, and produced a roll of paper punch tape of the code, but the 13 pages were destroyed, leaving me with only the paper tape. My 14-year-old son was pretty fascinated to see the roll of computer punch tape -- paper with holes in it! -- that we used to store files in the old days. And that we didn't have computer screens, but only a teletype element that printed -- one letter at a time -- the back-and-forth information between the timeshare computer and the teletype (output). This paper punch tape is the Basic program that I wrote in high school that played a random basketball game (as called by Bill Schonely, radio voice of the Portland Trailblazers). I'm trying to find someone to run it through a tape reader so that I can retrieve the code and play the game again. I'm hoping to explain the code to Owen so that he might understand the power of coding and get interested in coding. Is there anyone out there that I can send my roll of paper tape to such that the code can be restored? I could pay some compensation for your troubles. Much appreciated, Gary This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain privileged, confidential, proprietary, private, copyrighted, or other legally protected information. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity designated above. If you are not the intended recipient (even if the e-mail address above is yours), please notify us by return e-mail immediately, and delete the message and any attachments. Any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this message or any attachments by an individual or entity other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence at ljw.me.uk The IBM 360/30 page http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360
Re: Need to have a roll of paper punch tape read by a tape reader and printed
I am a cctalk subscriber, but I don't seem to be getting messages reliably any more. So, I'm replying to the reply, as I never got the original query. Anyway Gary, I'm in Beaverton OR, USA and so quite possibly local, and I can read your paper tape easily enough. Email or a thumb drive or whatever so you can print out the result. I don't think my Teletype is in good enough shape at the moment to make you a period correct print-out, though. Vince On 3/9/2021 12:03 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctech wrote: Gary, I don't know if you're in Europe or elsewhere. I'm in the Netherlands, and I could do that free of charge. I'd also make a video recording of the process for your sons education. Camiel From: cctech on behalf of Gary Dye via cctech Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 11:30 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Need to have a roll of paper punch tape read by a tape reader and printed Hi folks. I wrote a basketball program in Basic over 40 years ago in high school. I printed the 13 pages of code, and produced a roll of paper punch tape of the code, but the 13 pages were destroyed, leaving me with only the paper tape. My 14-year-old son was pretty fascinated to see the roll of computer punch tape -- paper with holes in it! -- that we used to store files in the old days. And that we didn't have computer screens, but only a teletype element that printed -- one letter at a time -- the back-and-forth information between the timeshare computer and the teletype (output). This paper punch tape is the Basic program that I wrote in high school that played a random basketball game (as called by Bill Schonely, radio voice of the Portland Trailblazers). I'm trying to find someone to run it through a tape reader so that I can retrieve the code and play the game again. I'm hoping to explain the code to Owen so that he might understand the power of coding and get interested in coding. Is there anyone out there that I can send my roll of paper tape to such that the code can be restored? I could pay some compensation for your troubles. Much appreciated, Gary This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain privileged, confidential, proprietary, private, copyrighted, or other legally protected information. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity designated above. If you are not the intended recipient (even if the e-mail address above is yours), please notify us by return e-mail immediately, and delete the message and any attachments. Any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this message or any attachments by an individual or entity other than the intended recipient is prohibited.
Re: Need to have a roll of paper punch tape read by a tape reader and printed
Gary, I don't know if you're in Europe or elsewhere. I'm in the Netherlands, and I could do that free of charge. I'd also make a video recording of the process for your sons education. Camiel From: cctech on behalf of Gary Dye via cctech Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 11:30 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Need to have a roll of paper punch tape read by a tape reader and printed Hi folks. I wrote a basketball program in Basic over 40 years ago in high school. I printed the 13 pages of code, and produced a roll of paper punch tape of the code, but the 13 pages were destroyed, leaving me with only the paper tape. My 14-year-old son was pretty fascinated to see the roll of computer punch tape -- paper with holes in it! -- that we used to store files in the old days. And that we didn't have computer screens, but only a teletype element that printed -- one letter at a time -- the back-and-forth information between the timeshare computer and the teletype (output). This paper punch tape is the Basic program that I wrote in high school that played a random basketball game (as called by Bill Schonely, radio voice of the Portland Trailblazers). I'm trying to find someone to run it through a tape reader so that I can retrieve the code and play the game again. I'm hoping to explain the code to Owen so that he might understand the power of coding and get interested in coding. Is there anyone out there that I can send my roll of paper tape to such that the code can be restored? I could pay some compensation for your troubles. Much appreciated, Gary This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain privileged, confidential, proprietary, private, copyrighted, or other legally protected information. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity designated above. If you are not the intended recipient (even if the e-mail address above is yours), please notify us by return e-mail immediately, and delete the message and any attachments. Any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this message or any attachments by an individual or entity other than the intended recipient is prohibited.
