Re: Looking for VAXSET Software Engineering Tools for VMS 4.x
On 04/17/2021 11:24 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: If anyone has any suggestions for how to clean CDs to recover data, I'm all ears. If by the "data side" you mean the clear side the CD is read from, those can be polished with toothpaste or plastic polish. Modern CD/DVD drives are much better at reading poor quality disks. If the data layer is scratched, they are likely unrecoverable. That is the side with the label on it, and the data layer is only a few thousandths below the label. Jon
Re: Looking for VAXSET Software Engineering Tools for VMS 4.x
On Sat, Apr 17, 2021 at 08:33:59PM +0100, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: > On 17/04/2021 19:35, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > On 4/17/21 11:30 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: > > > > > So far I've just tried using dd to recover the data but perhaps I > > > should try to find something that won't give up when the OS reports > > > an unreadable sector. Anyone have any suggestions? > > > > > > ddrescue > > > > I guess I should've remembered that one, thanks! > > > So has this just lost ~3KiB? "pct rescued" suggests that it did quite well. > Does "bad areas" mean one bad sector (2048 bytes)? > > > $ ddrescue -r5 -v /dev/sr1 JUL89DIST.iso JUL89DIST.map > GNU ddrescue 1.23 > About to copy 623247 kBytes from '/dev/sr1' to 'JUL89DIST.iso' > Starting positions: infile = 0 B, outfile = 0 B > Copy block size: 128 sectors Initial skip size: 128 sectors > Sector size: 512 Bytes > > Press Ctrl-C to interrupt > ipos: 623246 kB, non-trimmed: 0 B, current rate: 0 B/s > opos: 623246 kB, non-scraped: 0 B, average rate: 1303 kB/s > non-tried: 0 B, bad-sector: 4096 B, error rate: 73 B/s > rescued: 623243 kB, bad areas: 1, run time: 7m 58s > pct rescued: 99.99%, read errors: 49, remaining time: n/a > time since last successful read: 5m 11s > Finished > > This is what ls sees (I renamed the ISO to match what it actually is): > > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 antonioc antonioc 623243264 Apr 17 20:14 > CDROM-AG-MN36E-RE-1989-07-VMS-CONDIST.iso > > (That happens to be exactly the same result as dd). That looks pretty good already! Can you try with "-b 2048 -d" for direct disc access and maybe once more with "-R" for reverse? Cheers, Malte -- Malte Dehling
Re: Looking for VAXSET Software Engineering Tools for VMS 4.x
On 17/04/2021 19:35, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: On 4/17/21 11:30 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: So far I've just tried using dd to recover the data but perhaps I should try to find something that won't give up when the OS reports an unreadable sector. Anyone have any suggestions? ddrescue I guess I should've remembered that one, thanks! So has this just lost ~3KiB? "pct rescued" suggests that it did quite well. Does "bad areas" mean one bad sector (2048 bytes)? $ ddrescue -r5 -v /dev/sr1 JUL89DIST.iso JUL89DIST.map GNU ddrescue 1.23 About to copy 623247 kBytes from '/dev/sr1' to 'JUL89DIST.iso' Starting positions: infile = 0 B, outfile = 0 B Copy block size: 128 sectors Initial skip size: 128 sectors Sector size: 512 Bytes Press Ctrl-C to interrupt ipos: 623246 kB, non-trimmed: 0 B, current rate: 0 B/s opos: 623246 kB, non-scraped: 0 B, average rate: 1303 kB/s non-tried: 0 B, bad-sector: 4096 B, error rate: 73 B/s rescued: 623243 kB, bad areas: 1, run time: 7m 58s pct rescued: 99.99%, read errors: 49, remaining time: n/a time since last successful read: 5m 11s Finished This is what ls sees (I renamed the ISO to match what it actually is): -rw-rw-r-- 1 antonioc antonioc 623243264 Apr 17 20:14 CDROM-AG-MN36E-RE-1989-07-VMS-CONDIST.iso (That happens to be exactly the same result as dd). Antonio -- Antonio Carlini anto...@acarlini.com
Re: Looking for VAXSET Software Engineering Tools for VMS 4.x
On Sat, Apr 17, 2021 at 11:35:41AM -0700, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > On 4/17/21 11:30 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: > > > So far I've just tried using dd to recover the data but perhaps I should > > try to find something that won't give up when the OS reports an > > unreadable sector. Anyone have any suggestions? > > > ddrescue I agree with the suggestion. I think it's worth trying this before anything else. If anything can be read without further work, ddrescue should do the trick. Of course it helps to test with different drives, too, like you already did. Sorry this turned into more work than expected, and thanks again for your effort! -- Malte Dehling
Re: Looking for VAXSET Software Engineering Tools for VMS 4.x
On 4/17/21 11:30 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: So far I've just tried using dd to recover the data but perhaps I should try to find something that won't give up when the OS reports an unreadable sector. Anyone have any suggestions? ddrescue
Re: Looking for VAXSET Software Engineering Tools for VMS 4.x
On 17/04/2021 18:03, Zane Healy wrote: On Apr 17, 2021, at 9:24 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: If anyone has any suggestions for how to clean CDs to recover data, I'm all ears. Do you have access to a Record Store that deals in used CDs? I know one of our local ones used to have a machine for resurfacing CDs, at the time, I didn’t need to make use of the service. Another option might be used Video Game stores. Thanks for that, I didn't realise that such a service even existed. There's a GAME in the Westgate in Oxford and the GAME website mentions CD cleaning for games, so I might call and check to see if they have the machine. £3 per disc, so it perhaps might be worth trying on one. When I hold the CD up to the light there are definite pin pricks where I can see the light shining through so I rather suspect that there are some points that are unrecoverable. So maybe not. I also happened across two youtube videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpcd-5fd9nY and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNV7mDfWuWI) where people do the same sort of thing by hand. I happen to have some 3000 grit wet-and-dry available. I might have a go at that too, although I think I should find a data CD that I don't care about, rough it up and see if I can "unrough it up". Pity I threw away all those AOL CDs years ago :-) Actually, I suspect I have a number of duplicate MSDN CDs, so those might do for experimentation. So far I've just tried using dd to recover the data but perhaps I should try to find something that won't give up when the OS reports an unreadable sector. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks Antonio -- Antonio Carlini anto...@acarlini.com
Re: Looking for VAXSET Software Engineering Tools for VMS 4.x
On 4/17/21 1:03 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: On Apr 17, 2021, at 9:24 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: If anyone has any suggestions for how to clean CDs to recover data, I'm all ears. Do you have access to a Record Store that deals in used CDs? I know one of our local ones used to have a machine for resurfacing CDs, at the time, I didn’t need to make use of the service. Another option might be used Video Game stores. I have used BonAmi to polish scratches on music CDs with considerable success. bill
Re: Looking for VAXSET Software Engineering Tools for VMS 4.x
On Apr 17, 2021, at 9:24 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: > > If anyone has any suggestions for how to clean CDs to recover data, I'm all > ears. Do you have access to a Record Store that deals in used CDs? I know one of our local ones used to have a machine for resurfacing CDs, at the time, I didn’t need to make use of the service. Another option might be used Video Game stores. Zane
Re: Looking for VAXSET Software Engineering Tools for VMS 4.x
On 17/04/2021 16:53, John H. Reinhardt via cctalk wrote: On 4/17/2021 2:15 AM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote: On Apr 16, 2021, at 11:38 AM, Malte Dehling via cctalk wrote: Whether VAXSET is on there or not, I would be very interested in ISOs of both of these either way! If Antonio does not mind sharing them a bit more widely, I would also like to have ISOs of them. I'm interested in running earlier VMS versions on my 11/730. I too would be interested if it is possible to get disk images of these two CDs. I'll make them available to all. May 1989 wouldn't load up at all in the DVD drive. When I looked at the data side they were very badly scuffed. July 1989 and November 1989 look better but don't read completely. I've tried some CD cleaning solution I have and I've also tried a different drive (and a different OS!). I'll try them out on SIMH and if they're even partially useful, I'll post them. They should be backup savesets, so it should be easy to tell if those have been corrupted or not with BACKUP/ANALYSE. If anyone has any suggestions for how to clean CDs to recover data, I'm all ears. These came out of DEC and were probably dropped off in my cube (as the group was being sold off to Cabletron) after years of kicking around and being used as coasters etc. The ones that I was on a subscription list were looked after and still work :-) (but they're V6 onwards iirc). I suppose that I should start to archive those too, but it will take some time. I should be able to resurrect my SIMH config tonight/tomorrow and then I can test them and put them up somewhere. Any thoughts about what to provide for each one? So far ...: the ISO (with SHA256 or similar) a scan of the CD a README with the CD title and whether it read error free or not: in the latter case a dnesg snippet. Anything else worth adding while I'm at it? Antonio -- Antonio Carlini anto...@acarlini.com
Re: Looking for VAXSET Software Engineering Tools for VMS 4.x
On 4/17/2021 2:15 AM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote: On Apr 16, 2021, at 11:38 AM, Malte Dehling via cctalk wrote: Whether VAXSET is on there or not, I would be very interested in ISOs of both of these either way! If Antonio does not mind sharing them a bit more widely, I would also like to have ISOs of them. I'm interested in running earlier VMS versions on my 11/730. I too would be interested if it is possible to get disk images of these two CDs. -- John H. Reinhardt
Re: GNO and ORCA Pascal
0vv0 s. Picked up all the Orca > languages and have begin playing around with them but am not an expert > with them by any means. There are others with more knowledge about them > I'm sure. > > I started out (when I was a kid) on the PDP-11 at my dad's work (he was an anthropologist at ASU and couldn't use a computer at gunpoint)... and then convinced him to buy an Apple //e. I could never convince him to buy a GS. So, I finally found one in England (moved here 21 years ago). Right now it's just a ROM 3 base unit with no drives or memory expansion. I have all that stuff on order but COVID is making shipping take forever... so for now I'm playing with KEGS I have looked at GNO/ME but haven't actually worked with it yet. My > understanding is where you can use it in place of the Orca shell, it > isn't a 100% compatible drop in replacement. You can run the Orca tools > and compilers and such from it without any trouble I believe. > > What is it you are trying to do with it? I've been trying to think of > something that one would do in the language that would be specific to > the shell itself. > > I've managed to get ORCA Pascal to compile and link.. with a litlle help from Kelvin Sherlock... but I don't want to annoy him too much. The kernel for GNO provides preemptive multitasking. My friend and I wrote a BBS in Turbo Pascal when we were kids... and it was fairly popular in Phoenix Arizona for a while. I wrote a new version of it in Ruby that's multithreaded and thus multiuser... I've never really LIKED Ruby... I also noticed that there isn't really a BBS program that is specific to the GS... and certainly not one that is multi user. So, I'm going to rewrite my multiuser BBS for it but in Pascal. This would be quite a bit easier if I was into C. I suspect that I'm going to have to write my own unit to talk to the Kernel. In theory that shouldn't be too hard, as I have the source to the compiler and the built in units for talking to the toolbox. But, I don't believe in reinventing the wheel for things like this... Take Care, Mark aka John > David Williams > www.trailingedge.com > -- Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow" Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
Re: Looking for VAXSET Software Engineering Tools for VMS 4.x
> On Apr 16, 2021, at 11:38 AM, Malte Dehling via cctalk > wrote: > > Whether VAXSET is on there or not, I would be very interested in ISOs of > both of these either way! If Antonio does not mind sharing them a bit more widely, I would also like to have ISOs of them. I'm interested in running earlier VMS versions on my 11/730. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X https://www.nf6x.net/
