Re: PCI floppy controller
On 4/22/22 18:43, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > I guess I'll find out. I just ordered one. Shipping is almost as much > as the device. :-( > > Still think I will look into what it would take to access floppies > from an Arduino. They're fun to play with, too. As far as I am aware, none of the "sampling" (basically use an internal timer to "capture" the interval between flux transitions) solutions have BIOS Int 13 access nor Windows NT sector-level access. If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me. The principle is quite simple and is the same one used by the old Catweasel board. You have a free-running timer at some rate, say 24 Mhz. Every time the magnetic flux on the floppy track reverses, you grab the current counter value and store it away. Some implementations reset the counter at that point; others just let it run and correct the counts at end-of-track.Then you go over the track data and derive the content, using software to simulate a data separator. For writing, you employ a similar counter idea, except the the counter is programmed as a pulse width modulator fed by a stream of values. Very simple--I can recall coaxing people into this on VCFed back around 2005 or so--I recall doing a very simple implementation employing a (now long-EOLed) ATMega162 and an external SRAM. It's not rocket science--a $3 "Blue Pill" stm32f103 board MCU needs little other than a connector to a floppy and some firmware. It runs at 72MHz, which is more than sufficient. Data is streamed to the host via the integral USB connection. However, it needs to be stated that everything from the Catweasel on depends on post- or pre-processing. As far as I know, none enjoys an Int 13h interface, like a standard floppy controller would. Now external drives like the Backpack did enjoy an Int 13h connection because they use a standard FDC inside. I suppose one could do the same with a USB setup. Mostly a matter of software. --Chuck
Re: PCI floppy controller
Isn't that what Greaseweasel and similar do? I have a kyroflux that I use to read floppies on my macbook. It can write as well and understands a ton of formats. Greaseweasel is more available and supported (I got my kyroflux before things went south, so wouldn't recommend others get one these days). On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: I guess I'll find out. I just ordered one. Shipping is almost as much as the device. :-( Still think I will look into what it would take to access floppies from an Arduino. They're fun to play with, too. In the early days of some of those devices, the primary users of them were interested in saving the raw track images for later recreation/copying of disks, and many didn't see any reason to want to even convert to sectors, much less parse the DIRectory and implement fucnctions of the file system to get FILES as output. It would be interesting to hear about the current state of the art of software for them to use as sector readers and for which file systems there is now software to extract FILES. (as opposed to raw image archiving for recreation/copying only) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: PCI floppy controller
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
As another person with a desire to be able to read/write/create
disks of different sizes and formats I have found this interesting.
So the question, then
How hard would it be to make a floppy disk interface using an Arduino
or even RasberryPi? If you could do that the choices of interface
to a PC opens up quite a bit. It would never be like having a floppy
hanging off the PC, but then none of the formats I am interested in
are grounded in the PC anyway and utilities would need to be written
to access them.
comments?
There are a LOT of possibilities.
At one point, one of my associates was playing around with various "PC on
a board" motherboards that were 5.25" floppy drive size. ("Quark" 80186
equivalent of an Ampro Little Board) He mounted it with spacers on a
5.25" drive, in an external case. It was a complete PC, that looked like
an externala drive.
His primary purpose was to build dedicated PC industrial data acquisition
units. (Elcompco made several data acquisition systems that
interfaced directly with banks of elevators)
With trivial some software on it, it could connect to a "real" PC and do
disk I/O.
I once saw an extremely similar commercial product being marketed for
Macintosh that was an "external 5.25" floppy drive that can read PC
diskettes". It was an Ampro Little Board on a drive, with software for
letting the Macintosh access files on its disks. They avoided mentioning
what was inside the box, and presented it as a Macintosh special external
drive. (similar to the Macintosh version of Video Toaster having an
Amiga in the box)
They added software to it to handle some CP/M formats. I was amused that
among the formats that they supported were a format where I had misspeled
the format name (due to customer handwriting), and they copied my
mispelling, and they had a format that I had put into XenoCopy for a
friend to handle his on-off prototype machine that never went to market.
(a non-deliberate Mountweazel poach flag copyright trap)
You could build a small box with a drive and either a from scratch
controller, or a 765 (or better yet, a WD 179x), that connects to PC.
In that box, you could put almost anything that could work with the FDC
and communicate.
But, as a first step, and "proof of concept" for an external box,
why not just start with a 5160 or 5170, running software and communicating
with your host PC? Then, later, you could replace the 5160/5170 with a
more compact dedicated bespoke device.
(OK, I'm still thinking in terms of the days when people were upgrading
PCs and throwing out the old ones, so that an XT cost NOTHING)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: PCI floppy controller
On 4/22/22 21:19, Warner Losh wrote: On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 7:07 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: As another person with a desire to be able to read/write/create disks of different sizes and formats I have found this interesting. So the question, then How hard would it be to make a floppy disk interface using an Arduino or even RasberryPi? If you could do that the choices of interface to a PC opens up quite a bit. It would never be like having a floppy hanging off the PC, but then none of the formats I am interested in are grounded in the PC anyway and utilities would need to be written to access them. comments? Isn't that what Greaseweasel and similar do? I have a kyroflux that I use to read floppies on my macbook. It can write as well and understands a ton of formats. Greaseweasel is more available and supported (I got my kyroflux before things went south, so wouldn't recommend others get one these days). Warner I guess I'll find out. I just ordered one. Shipping is almost as much as the device. :-( Still think I will look into what it would take to access floppies from an Arduino. They're fun to play with, too. bill bill
Re: PCI floppy controller
On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 7:07 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > As another person with a desire to be able to read/write/create > disks of different sizes and formats I have found this interesting. > > So the question, then > > How hard would it be to make a floppy disk interface using an Arduino > or even RasberryPi? If you could do that the choices of interface > to a PC opens up quite a bit. It would never be like having a floppy > hanging off the PC, but then none of the formats I am interested in > are grounded in the PC anyway and utilities would need to be written > to access them. > > comments? > Isn't that what Greaseweasel and similar do? I have a kyroflux that I use to read floppies on my macbook. It can write as well and understands a ton of formats. Greaseweasel is more available and supported (I got my kyroflux before things went south, so wouldn't recommend others get one these days). Warner
RE: Advice on Desoldering an IC
Indeed! Great investment. 73 Eugene W2HX Subscribe to my Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/w2hx-channel/videos -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt via cctalk Sent: Friday, April 22, 2022 2:04 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: Advice on Desoldering an IC I decided to invest in a Hakko FR-301. It worked almost immediately. Hours of trying before, I did it in 10 minutes! Regards Rob > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of dwight via > cctalk > Sent: 16 April 2022 14:00 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: Advice on Desoldering an IC > > Sometimes the IC has been installed with the pins under tension. This > is typical of machine inserted ICs. When the solder is loose, bend the > pin away from the side it is pressed against. Do this carefully, don't > over bend. You want it to center in the hole. I recommend doing this > with a separate iron than the desoldering tool, so you can see what > you are doing. Once the pin is nicely centered in the hole use the > desoldering tool to suck the solder out. > Make sure to always use a clean tip. An oxidixed tip will require > excess pressure to transfer heatand damage the trace. Keep the solder > shinny with a spung or soft metal wool. Do mot use a hard metal to > clean an iron clad tip or it will damage the iron and rot it from the > inside > When not using the iron but leaving it hot, always leave a blob of > solder so that it won't have a thin oxide coating that is hard to > remove. KEEP A CLEAN TIP! > After sucking the solder with the tool, with a small screw driver, > give the pin a slight sideways pressure and let the screw driver slip > off the pin. It should make a plink sound or a momentary ring. This is > something that you'll just have to learn the sound of. If it doesn't > sound right it means it isn't free of the sides. Add solder and try to bend > the pin. > Often the body side of the IC will have a tiny film of solder right > where the IC sits on the trace. If this is just the tiny amount to > solder, one can break it loose with a pair of short needle nose > pliers, By squeezing the two sides of the IC together. Don't expect to break > loose a large blob. > Of course, if you expect to throw the IC away, use sharp pointed dikes > to cut the pins at the package and pull each pin individually while the > solder is hot. > Use a small vice to hold the board so you can work from both sides. > Tweezers are best but heat the solder first and when hot grab the pin from > the top. > Work quickly while the solder is hot. > You may need to refill the pin with fresh clean solder. Old oxidized > solder does not remove easily. Use separate rosin flux if you have it > ( not plumber flux!! ). > Like I said earlier, use a really clean tip. It should be shinny > before trying to heat the board. It is hard to do with the higher > temperature solders. There is some low temperature stuff you can use to > remove solder more quickly. > I like using a large manual plastic solderpulit. Some like to use solder wick. > The solder removal suckers are often hard to keep the tip clean. If > you have to press hard on the tip to the work, the tip is not clean. > It does help to have some really tiny flux core solder to touch right > at the junction of the iron and work to start the heat transfer. Never > use force to get the heat to start to transfer! Clean tip and a quick touch > with solder is all that is needed. > When you are not using the iron for some time, but leaving it on, add > a thicker blob of solder on it so it doesn't get a thin hard to clean oxide > on it. > KEEP YOUR TIP FREE OF THIN OXIDE! > Dwight > > > > > From: cctalk on behalf of Rob Jarratt > via cctalk > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2022 10:49 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Advice on Desoldering an IC > > I am trying to remove an IC from my PDP 11/24 CPU, a DS8641. I am > really struggling to desolder it. I am using the technique of applying > fresh solder and then removing it. But after multiple cycles of this I > think I am starting to damage the PCB. > > > > I am using a fairly cheap desoldering station (this one > https://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00672/desoldering-station-uk-eu- > plug/dp/SD > 01384?st=duratool%20desoldering). Its spec in terms of vacuum pressure > is equivalent to that of the professional Hakko ones though. I am also > trying a hand desoldering pump. None of these are able to clear many > of the holes of solder, although some are doing better than others. > Nevertheless, the IC remains stubbornly unmoving. > > > > Are there any tips for removing ICs? > > > > Thanks > > > > Rob
Re: PCI floppy controller
As another person with a desire to be able to read/write/create disks of different sizes and formats I have found this interesting. So the question, then How hard would it be to make a floppy disk interface using an Arduino or even RasberryPi? If you could do that the choices of interface to a PC opens up quite a bit. It would never be like having a floppy hanging off the PC, but then none of the formats I am interested in are grounded in the PC anyway and utilities would need to be written to access them. comments? bill
Re: PCI floppy controller
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk wrote: You can of course build a PCI FDD interface around the NEC uPD765 or an equivalent controller, but you can't make it compatible with existing PC software, because too much PC specifics has been embedded there around the 8237 DMA controller and DMA page registers at fixed port I/O locations, which is inherently incompatible with the PCI decoding model. While the lack of DMA would make it impossible to have complete compatability, it could still be partially compatible and have its own version of INT13h that would work for most? floppy utility software. Consider the PCJr. It did not have DMA, and wasn't compatible with everything for many MORE reasons, but some/most INT13h access to floppies did work. There were, however OTHER problems; IBM made the mistake of thinking that the PCJr could compete on its own as a home computer, failing to realize that everybody who used PCs at work expected to be able to use the PCJr as a PC, and to be able to expand it the same as a PC. As a further example of IBM's error in perception of the PCJr, they supplied it with a chiclets keyboard (just like the Coco), and then later had to give away FREE "real" keyboard replacements for the chiclets (just like the Coco). Don't expect access BELOW INT13h, talking to the DMA and FDC chips directly. For example, reading side B of a Kaypro disk, where the head number field in the sector headers doesn't match the number of which head it is on, and isn't the expected '1'. Fortunately, most computers with WD FDCs that used invalid head number fields in the sector headers didn't CARE what was there, and would work with disks formatted with correct head number fields.
Re: Selling my 026/029 IBM punch card control drum ($150)
I picked one up several years ago for my 029. maybe 25 or 30 bucks. I also grabbed a couple of the cylinders that were used to put legends on cards, which were around. Never knew exactly what process used them, but the look cool. On 4/22/2022 3:16 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 4/22/22 14:37, Lee Courtney via cctalk wrote: Works fine. Good Condition. Doesn't say whether it includes power cord or not? You'd figure that there would be buckets of these things around. Many keypunch pools would have several of them for each keypunch, preloaded with cards for appropriate forms. They were also commonly "appropriate" by various individuals. Still, I guess if any technology is old enough, it gets scarce. --Chuck
Re: PCI floppy controller
On 4/22/22 15:47, Maciej W. Rozycki wrote: > On Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> I suppose it might be possible to fashion a legacy floppy controller on >> a PCI card with enough supporting logic to make it compatible with >> existing software, but I'm not aware of such an effort. > A feasible solution is a SCSI FDD option, such as the DEC RX23 device > (which is actually a whole embedded microcomputer built around an 8080 CPU > and using an 8237 DMA controller, an 8259 interrupt controller, a uPD765 > floppy drive controller and a 5380 SCSI interface), which works as a > removable drive with any single-ended parallel SCSI host adapter, e.g.: However--the SCSI floppy is treated as a normal relative-block device (like a hard disk). AFAIK, provisions aren't made for alternate addressing schemes (e.g. first sector not being C0 H0 S1), FM encoding or interesting formats, such XDF. One might as well buy a cheap USB floppy drive. It's a pretty safe bet that you won't be able to read, much less format, an entire IBM System/3 floppy using one. --Chuck
Re: PCI floppy controller
On Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > I suppose it might be possible to fashion a legacy floppy controller on > a PCI card with enough supporting logic to make it compatible with > existing software, but I'm not aware of such an effort. You can of course build a PCI FDD interface around the NEC uPD765 or an equivalent controller, but you can't make it compatible with existing PC software, because too much PC specifics has been embedded there around the 8237 DMA controller and DMA page registers at fixed port I/O locations, which is inherently incompatible with the PCI decoding model. A feasible solution is a SCSI FDD option, such as the DEC RX23 device (which is actually a whole embedded microcomputer built around an 8080 CPU and using an 8237 DMA controller, an 8259 interrupt controller, a uPD765 floppy drive controller and a 5380 SCSI interface), which works as a removable drive with any single-ended parallel SCSI host adapter, e.g.: scsi 2:0:4:0: Direct-Access DEC RX23 (C) DEC 0054 PQ: 0 ANSI: 1 CCS Such SCSI host adapters remain widely available as PCI and PCIe options. HTH, Maciej
Re: Selling my 026/029 IBM punch card control drum ($150)
On 4/22/22 14:37, Lee Courtney via cctalk wrote: >> Works fine. Good Condition. > > Doesn't say whether it includes power cord or not? You'd figure that there would be buckets of these things around. Many keypunch pools would have several of them for each keypunch, preloaded with cards for appropriate forms. They were also commonly "appropriate" by various individuals. Still, I guess if any technology is old enough, it gets scarce. --Chuck
Re: Selling my 026/029 IBM punch card control drum ($150)
Works fine. Good Condition. On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, Lee Courtney via cctalk wrote: Doesn't say whether it includes power cord or not? Wouldn't matter. There aren't any Windows 10 drivers for its PCI card.
Re: Selling my 026/029 IBM punch card control drum ($150)
> Works fine. Good Condition. Doesn't say whether it includes power cord or not? Lee Courtney On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 12:41 AM Christian Corti via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Barry Hills wrote: > > Selling my 026/029 IBM punch card control drum ($150) > > Thanks, I had a good lough :-D > > Christian > -- Lee Courtney +1-650-704-3934 cell
Re: PCI floppy controller
On 4/22/22 1:26 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: Swearing about it doesn't make it so. Agreed. Though swearing about it does speak to how strongly I /thought/ it was the case. Clearly I was wrong. It's only been about two decades since I would have messed with this. Maybe my grey matter is suffering bit rot faster than I realized. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: PCI floppy controller
On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 11:25 AM Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > I'd swear that I've used a PCI Adaptec card with a floppy controller. > 2942 comes to mind. Swearing about it doesn't make it so. Are there any Adaptec SCSI controllers other than the various flavors of these models which have floppy controllers? AHA-1522 (ISA) AHA-1542 (ISA) AHA-1742 (EISA) AHA-2742 (EISA) AHA-2842 (VLB)
Re: PCI floppy controller
On Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 12:25 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 4/22/22 11:46 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: > > By the time there were PCI Adaptec cards, there was no longer a floppy > > controller on them that I ever saw. As others have pointed out, > > though, it would need special drivers and/or BIOS support because > > PCI devices mixed poorly with ISA DMA that the floppy was built on. > > I'd swear that I've used a PCI Adaptec card with a floppy controller. > 2942 comes to mind. > I thought the 2942 had 2 SCSI channels, I thought. Google can't find a definitive answer but all the 2940 cards on eBay didn't have obviously unstuck parts for a floppy. The aha 1540 did... Warner -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die >
Re: PCI floppy controller
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 19:11, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > Back in the 90s, we bought these things by the carton, modified them to > work with Japanese DOS 2.0 format (PC98) 3.5" floppies, rewrote the > drivers, added a VxD for Win3.1 compatibility and sold a bunch of them. > Popular with some segments of the CNC and other crowds. Huh! Nice work if you can get it. > A not well-known fact is that the thing supports up to 4 drives and that > the configuration NVRAM stores not only the "ID" of the unit but also > the types of the 4 drives connected. You mean, in principle 1 interface could control 4 drives? Wow! > It's rare (and perhaps impossible) to find a real parallel port on a > modern system--usb parallel dongles don't work No, I wouldn't expect 'em to. > and neither do the PCIe > parallel port cards. OK, now that surprised me. But on consideration, I suppose that they appear at different locations. 0x378 for I/O and IRQ 7, wasn't it? :-) 0x3BC and 0x278 for LPT2 and LPT3. I guess PCI[e] ones appear elsewhere and DOS doesn't know about the addresses. A Linux driver might have a shot. Any Windows driver old enough to drive a parallel port won't work on any currently-supported version of Windows. > Along with the legacy floppy interface, the > legacy serial and parallel ports may have been the last vestiges of the > ISA architecture to be discarded. Yup. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
Re: Advice on Desoldering an IC
On 4/22/22 12:03 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: I decided to invest in a Hakko FR-301. It worked almost immediately. Hours of trying before, I did it in 10 minutes! Thank you for the feedback and the comparison of without and with it. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: PCI floppy controller
On 4/22/22 11:46 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: By the time there were PCI Adaptec cards, there was no longer a floppy controller on them that I ever saw. As others have pointed out, though, it would need special drivers and/or BIOS support because PCI devices mixed poorly with ISA DMA that the floppy was built on. I'd swear that I've used a PCI Adaptec card with a floppy controller. 2942 comes to mind. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
RE: Advice on Desoldering an IC
I decided to invest in a Hakko FR-301. It worked almost immediately. Hours of trying before, I did it in 10 minutes! Regards Rob > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of dwight via cctalk > Sent: 16 April 2022 14:00 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: Advice on Desoldering an IC > > Sometimes the IC has been installed with the pins under tension. This is > typical of machine inserted ICs. When the solder is loose, bend the pin away > from the side it is pressed against. Do this carefully, don't over bend. You > want it to center in the hole. I recommend doing this with a separate iron > than the desoldering tool, so you can see what you are doing. Once the pin is > nicely centered in the hole use the desoldering tool to suck the solder out. > Make sure to always use a clean tip. An oxidixed tip will require excess > pressure to transfer heatand damage the trace. Keep the solder shinny with > a spung or soft metal wool. Do mot use a hard metal to clean an iron clad tip > or it will damage the iron and rot it from the inside > When not using the iron but leaving it hot, always leave a blob of solder so > that it won't have a thin oxide coating that is hard to remove. KEEP A CLEAN > TIP! > After sucking the solder with the tool, with a small screw driver, give the > pin a > slight sideways pressure and let the screw driver slip off the pin. It should > make a plink sound or a momentary ring. This is something that you'll just > have to learn the sound of. If it doesn't sound right it means it isn't free > of > the sides. Add solder and try to bend the pin. > Often the body side of the IC will have a tiny film of solder right where the > IC > sits on the trace. If this is just the tiny amount to solder, one can break it > loose with a pair of short needle nose pliers, By squeezing the two sides of > the IC together. Don't expect to break loose a large blob. > Of course, if you expect to throw the IC away, use sharp pointed dikes to cut > the pins at the package and pull each pin individually while the solder is > hot. > Use a small vice to hold the board so you can work from both sides. Tweezers > are best but heat the solder first and when hot grab the pin from the top. > Work quickly while the solder is hot. > You may need to refill the pin with fresh clean solder. Old oxidized solder > does not remove easily. Use separate rosin flux if you have it ( not plumber > flux!! ). > Like I said earlier, use a really clean tip. It should be shinny before > trying to > heat the board. It is hard to do with the higher temperature solders. There is > some low temperature stuff you can use to remove solder more quickly. > I like using a large manual plastic solderpulit. Some like to use solder wick. > The solder removal suckers are often hard to keep the tip clean. If you have > to press hard on the tip to the work, the tip is not clean. It does help to > have > some really tiny flux core solder to touch right at the junction of the iron > and > work to start the heat transfer. Never use force to get the heat to start to > transfer! Clean tip and a quick touch with solder is all that is needed. > When you are not using the iron for some time, but leaving it on, add a > thicker blob of solder on it so it doesn't get a thin hard to clean oxide on > it. > KEEP YOUR TIP FREE OF THIN OXIDE! > Dwight > > > > > From: cctalk on behalf of Rob Jarratt via > cctalk > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2022 10:49 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Advice on Desoldering an IC > > I am trying to remove an IC from my PDP 11/24 CPU, a DS8641. I am really > struggling to desolder it. I am using the technique of applying fresh solder > and then removing it. But after multiple cycles of this I think I am starting > to > damage the PCB. > > > > I am using a fairly cheap desoldering station (this one > https://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00672/desoldering-station-uk-eu- > plug/dp/SD > 01384?st=duratool%20desoldering). Its spec in terms of vacuum pressure is > equivalent to that of the professional Hakko ones though. I am also trying a > hand desoldering pump. None of these are able to clear many of the holes of > solder, although some are doing better than others. Nevertheless, the IC > remains stubbornly unmoving. > > > > Are there any tips for removing ICs? > > > > Thanks > > > > Rob
Re: PCI floppy controller
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 7:54 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 4/21/22 5:47 PM, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote: > > Were there ever any floppy controllers for the (parallel) PCI bus? > > Didn't some of the Adaptec SCSI cards have a floppy controller on them? > > Could that be made to work? > The AHA 15x2 cards had a floppy controller. It was a nothing special floppy controller that you'd otherwise find bundled on a multi-function card. These cards were ISA. The details of which controller varied over time, IIRC, but I had one of these since I didn't have a multi-function card in my 486 DX2-66 that I started my PC journey with (it took me a while to give up on the Rainbow). The AHA 1742 cards had a floppy controller on them as well. Same deal: but this was a EISA card. I'm told the AHA1642 was similar, but I've not seen a microchannel version of the card. By the time there were PCI Adaptec cards, there was no longer a floppy controller on them that I ever saw. As others have pointed out, though, it would need special drivers and/or BIOS support because PCI devices mixed poorly with ISA DMA that the floppy was built on. Warner
Re: PCI floppy controller
On 4/22/22 04:44, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > The company did a range of parallel-port storage drives: CDs, tape > drives and so on. Most were slow but worked, but the floppy drives > were quite a good option at the time for things like laptops which > couldn't accept another drive or controller, or for adding drives > unsupported by the built-in controller. I used them for emergency > backups, data transfer, data recovery and so on. Back in the 90s, we bought these things by the carton, modified them to work with Japanese DOS 2.0 format (PC98) 3.5" floppies, rewrote the drivers, added a VxD for Win3.1 compatibility and sold a bunch of them. Popular with some segments of the CNC and other crowds. If you check (very) old posts on VCFed, you may find the code I published that provides a complete set of BIOS functions. It illustrates how the parallel link works, among other things. Internals were pretty simple--a floppy drive (usually Newtronics/Mitsumi), either an NSC 8374 FDC or later NSC 8477 FDC, an 8051-family MCU and about 16KB of SRAM and a small NVRAM chip to store configuration information. A not well-known fact is that the thing supports up to 4 drives and that the configuration NVRAM stores not only the "ID" of the unit but also the types of the 4 drives connected. It's rare (and perhaps impossible) to find a real parallel port on a modern system--usb parallel dongles don't work and neither do the PCIe parallel port cards. Along with the legacy floppy interface, the legacy serial and parallel ports may have been the last vestiges of the ISA architecture to be discarded. --Chuck
Re: PCI floppy controller
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 13:44, Liam Proven wrote: > 5¼": > https://www.amazon.com/MICRO-SOLUTION-1-44MB-Backpack-Parallel/dp/B512MS Oops, sorry, badly-chosen link. Both of those are, of course, 3½ drives. The company *did* also offer 5¼" units, though, as did others... https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=72333 https://picclick.com/MicroSolutions-BackPack-525-Parallel-Port-Floppy-Drive-Rare-283066058252.html Here's the manual: http://minuszerodegrees.net/manuals/MicroSolutions/Micro%20Solutions%20-%20Backpack%20Diskette%20Drive%20-%20Users%20Guide%20-%201997.pdf -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
Re: PCI floppy controller
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 01:48, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote: > > Were there ever any floppy controllers for the (parallel) PCI bus? Floppy *controllers*, no. Floppy *drives*, yes. The Backpack range were the most well-known, I'd say. e.g. 5¼": https://www.amazon.com/MICRO-SOLUTION-1-44MB-Backpack-Parallel/dp/B512MS 3½": https://www.ebay.com/itm/384823809302 The company did a range of parallel-port storage drives: CDs, tape drives and so on. Most were slow but worked, but the floppy drives were quite a good option at the time for things like laptops which couldn't accept another drive or controller, or for adding drives unsupported by the built-in controller. I used them for emergency backups, data transfer, data recovery and so on. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
Re: interesting DEC Pro stuff on eBay
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 07:12:07PM -0400, Sean Conner via cctalk wrote: [...] > Agree here. I loved the 68K and have fond memories of writing programs in > it. But while the x86 has been Frankensteined into 64 bits, I don't think > I can see the 68K ever being a 64-bit architecture. I don't think there > are enough unused bits in the instruction formatting for that. The Apollo 68080 core claims to have 64 bit registers, but the whole thing is woefully underdocumented. If there's documentation of its instruction encodings beyond the vasm source code, I can't find it.
Re: Selling my 026/029 IBM punch card control drum ($150)
On Thu, 21 Apr 2022, Barry Hills wrote: Selling my 026/029 IBM punch card control drum ($150) Thanks, I had a good lough :-D Christian
