[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels
I can't add attachments here. I emailed them to your direct email address. Bob On 11/17/2023 3:11 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote: Hi Bob The attachment seems to be missing. Rod Also I hae some more boards available M7856 X 2 M863 X 2 M837 X 2 M8650 M8320 M880 + H241 (MR8 EC) M849 M3310 On 16/11/2023 20:53, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote: Do you have any more of the DEC PDP-8 e/m/f front panels? I'm looking for one that matches the layout attached. I don't care what model (e/m/f etc.) it's for, but the rotary switch layout needs to be right and I prefer the matte finish. Color is not important either I have orange, green, and blue switch boards. Thanks, Bob -- Vintage computers and electronics www.dvq.com www.tekmuseum.com www.decmuseum.org
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels
Try printing them in PETG: I've printed several of them for my 8/L and they equal the strength of factory switches. Even the little pins are more than strong enough. PETG does require a higher printing temperature (220c-230c) but is well worth it and a massive improvement over PLA. Chris On 11/17/2023 11:26 AM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: I have tired to print the paddle handles both SLA and FDM and none match the quality and strength of injected molded paddles. Unless you print an entire set (light and dark colors) it is nearly impossible to match the colors also. Even if you were to find the perfect filament or resin color, the variability between batches makes accurate reproduction nearly impossible. On 11/17/2023 10:15 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: I had some toggles printed for me professionally, but they are inferior to the originals and the colours don't match. If anyone has spare DEC LAB-8/e switches please let me know. Thanks Tom On Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 10:14 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: On 11/17/2023 8:52 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: Hi Bob, I can't help with your search for 8/e front panels, but you mentioned "green switch boards". I have a nicely restored DEC LAB-8/e with green switch toggles. Do you have spare green switch toggles? I would love to have one dark green and one light green toggle. I don't need the actual switch, but would be happy to take the toggles with switch. Please let me know if you can help. Have you ever considered making your own? https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853 bill
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels
I have tired to print the paddle handles both SLA and FDM and none match the quality and strength of injected molded paddles. Unless you print an entire set (light and dark colors) it is nearly impossible to match the colors also. Even if you were to find the perfect filament or resin color, the variability between batches makes accurate reproduction nearly impossible. On 11/17/2023 10:15 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: I had some toggles printed for me professionally, but they are inferior to the originals and the colours don't match. If anyone has spare DEC LAB-8/e switches please let me know. Thanks Tom On Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 10:14 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: On 11/17/2023 8:52 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: Hi Bob, I can't help with your search for 8/e front panels, but you mentioned "green switch boards". I have a nicely restored DEC LAB-8/e with green switch toggles. Do you have spare green switch toggles? I would love to have one dark green and one light green toggle. I don't need the actual switch, but would be happy to take the toggles with switch. Please let me know if you can help. Have you ever considered making your own? https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853 bill
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels
Hi Bob The attachment seems to be missing. Rod Also I hae some more boards available M7856 X 2 M863 X 2 M837 X 2 M8650 M8320 M880 + H241 (MR8 EC) M849 M3310 On 16/11/2023 20:53, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote: Do you have any more of the DEC PDP-8 e/m/f front panels? I'm looking for one that matches the layout attached. I don't care what model (e/m/f etc.) it's for, but the rotary switch layout needs to be right and I prefer the matte finish. Color is not important either I have orange, green, and blue switch boards. Thanks, Bob
[cctalk] Re: Address wrapping in PDP-11 MMU
OK, a faux descriptor would work round the documented checks which are on block number rather than EA - there is a hardware overide I'm delighted to hear that RSTS won't play along and set up for EA overflow Martin -Original Message- From: Paul Koning [mailto:paulkon...@comcast.net] Sent: 17 November 2023 20:52 To: Martin Bishop Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [cctalk] Address wrapping in PDP-11 MMU Ok, but I think that's not what I meant. Suppose I have APR6 = 17 and length > 1. That means VA 140076 maps to physical address 1776, and VA 140100 maps to physical addres 2000 which when masked with 22 bits would end up at 0. The offset within the page is <= the page length. Meanwhile, I discovered that RSTS actually rejects attempts to map things this way. :-( paul > On Nov 17, 2023, at 2:24 PM, Martin Bishop > wrote: > > EK-DCJ11-UG-Pre DCJ11 Microprocessor User's Guide says it will abort [the > first processor guide on the shelf] > > $4.5.2.2 (p4-7) Page Length Field ... "The block number of the virtual > address is compared against the page length field to detect length errors" ... > > $4.7.1 MMR0 <14> Abort Page Length Error > > $4.7.1.1.2 Abort -- Page Length > > When descriptors exist as they do in the PAR / PDR pair it is usual to police > them. A QL at the manual indicates no exception behaviour for kernel mode or > an override. > > The behaviour may be model dependent, but if MMR0<14> is populated I should > expect an abort -- you could code the abort ISR for desired behaviour and > return > > It would be easier to build hardware without the checking, but harder to > debug the system. > > Martin > > -Original Message- > From: Paul Koning via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] > Sent: 17 November 2023 18:16 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: Paul Koning > Subject: [cctalk] Address wrapping in PDP-11 MMU > > I'm working on some code where it would be handy to map the top of the I/O > page along with the bottom of physical memory. An obvious hack is to point > the APR to the I/O page address needed, then set the length so that the > address modulo 2^22 also covers the low memory range. > > It seems from the architecture manual that this would work, and SIMH seems to > do this (since it adds VA and PAR then masks with a 22 bit mask). Would this > work on real hardware? > > paul >
[cctalk] Re: Address wrapping in PDP-11 MMU
Ok, but I think that's not what I meant. Suppose I have APR6 = 17 and length > 1. That means VA 140076 maps to physical address 1776, and VA 140100 maps to physical addres 2000 which when masked with 22 bits would end up at 0. The offset within the page is <= the page length. Meanwhile, I discovered that RSTS actually rejects attempts to map things this way. :-( paul > On Nov 17, 2023, at 2:24 PM, Martin Bishop > wrote: > > EK-DCJ11-UG-Pre DCJ11 Microprocessor User's Guide says it will abort [the > first processor guide on the shelf] > > $4.5.2.2 (p4-7) Page Length Field ... "The block number of the virtual > address is compared against the page length field to detect length errors" ... > > $4.7.1 MMR0 <14> Abort Page Length Error > > $4.7.1.1.2 Abort -- Page Length > > When descriptors exist as they do in the PAR / PDR pair it is usual to police > them. A QL at the manual indicates no exception behaviour for kernel mode or > an override. > > The behaviour may be model dependent, but if MMR0<14> is populated I should > expect an abort -- you could code the abort ISR for desired behaviour and > return > > It would be easier to build hardware without the checking, but harder to > debug the system. > > Martin > > -Original Message- > From: Paul Koning via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] > Sent: 17 November 2023 18:16 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: Paul Koning > Subject: [cctalk] Address wrapping in PDP-11 MMU > > I'm working on some code where it would be handy to map the top of the I/O > page along with the bottom of physical memory. An obvious hack is to point > the APR to the I/O page address needed, then set the length so that the > address modulo 2^22 also covers the low memory range. > > It seems from the architecture manual that this would work, and SIMH seems to > do this (since it adds VA and PAR then masks with a 22 bit mask). Would this > work on real hardware? > > paul >
[cctalk] Re: Address wrapping in PDP-11 MMU
EK-DCJ11-UG-Pre DCJ11 Microprocessor User's Guide says it will abort [the first processor guide on the shelf] $4.5.2.2 (p4-7) Page Length Field ... "The block number of the virtual address is compared against the page length field to detect length errors" ... $4.7.1 MMR0 <14> Abort Page Length Error $4.7.1.1.2 Abort -- Page Length When descriptors exist as they do in the PAR / PDR pair it is usual to police them. A QL at the manual indicates no exception behaviour for kernel mode or an override. The behaviour may be model dependent, but if MMR0<14> is populated I should expect an abort -- you could code the abort ISR for desired behaviour and return It would be easier to build hardware without the checking, but harder to debug the system. Martin -Original Message- From: Paul Koning via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] Sent: 17 November 2023 18:16 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Paul Koning Subject: [cctalk] Address wrapping in PDP-11 MMU I'm working on some code where it would be handy to map the top of the I/O page along with the bottom of physical memory. An obvious hack is to point the APR to the I/O page address needed, then set the length so that the address modulo 2^22 also covers the low memory range. It seems from the architecture manual that this would work, and SIMH seems to do this (since it adds VA and PAR then masks with a 22 bit mask). Would this work on real hardware? paul
[cctalk] Address wrapping in PDP-11 MMU
I'm working on some code where it would be handy to map the top of the I/O page along with the bottom of physical memory. An obvious hack is to point the APR to the I/O page address needed, then set the length so that the address modulo 2^22 also covers the low memory range. It seems from the architecture manual that this would work, and SIMH seems to do this (since it adds VA and PAR then masks with a 22 bit mask). Would this work on real hardware? paul
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels
On 11/16/2023 12:53 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote: Do you have any more of the DEC PDP-8 e/m/f front panels? I'm looking for one that matches the layout attached. I don't care what model (e/m/f etc.) it's for, but the rotary switch layout needs to be right and I prefer the matte finish. Color is not important either I have orange, green, and blue switch boards. Thanks, Bob Whoops, this should have been a private message to Rod. Too quick with the mouse... What I'm looking for is the plastic panel for the bezel. I have the switch PCB with switches (at least most of them). I have played with 3D printing switches. They work, but colors are way off. Someday I'm going to play with an SLA printer. There are dye sets (such as the Monocure CMYK) set) that should allow pretty close matching to the original colors. The switches will also come out smoother. Bob -- Vintage computers and electronics www.dvq.com www.tekmuseum.com www.decmuseum.org
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels
I had some toggles printed for me professionally, but they are inferior to the originals and the colours don't match. If anyone has spare DEC LAB-8/e switches please let me know. Thanks Tom On Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 10:14 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 11/17/2023 8:52 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > > Hi Bob, > > I can't help with your search for 8/e front panels, but you mentioned > > "green switch boards". I have a nicely restored DEC LAB-8/e with green > > switch toggles. Do you have spare green switch toggles? I would love to > > have one dark green and one light green toggle. I don't need the actual > > switch, but would be happy to take the toggles with switch. Please let me > > know if you can help. > > > > Have you ever considered making your own? > > https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853 > > > bill >
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels
On 11/17/2023 8:52 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: Hi Bob, I can't help with your search for 8/e front panels, but you mentioned "green switch boards". I have a nicely restored DEC LAB-8/e with green switch toggles. Do you have spare green switch toggles? I would love to have one dark green and one light green toggle. I don't need the actual switch, but would be happy to take the toggles with switch. Please let me know if you can help. Have you ever considered making your own? https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853 bill
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels
Hi Bob, I can't help with your search for 8/e front panels, but you mentioned "green switch boards". I have a nicely restored DEC LAB-8/e with green switch toggles. Do you have spare green switch toggles? I would love to have one dark green and one light green toggle. I don't need the actual switch, but would be happy to take the toggles with switch. Please let me know if you can help. Tanks and best regards Tom Hunter On Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 2:18 PM Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Do you have any more of the DEC PDP-8 e/m/f front panels? > > I'm looking for one that matches the layout attached. I don't care what > model (e/m/f etc.) it's for, but the rotary switch layout needs to be > right and I prefer the matte finish. Color is not important either I > have orange, green, and blue switch boards. > > Thanks, > > Bob > > -- > Vintage computers and electronics > www.dvq.com > www.tekmuseum.com > www.decmuseum.org >
[cctalk] Re: Free to good home HP 7510a Photo Plotter - UK
Hi Dave, Did this go? If not, I'd be interested. I'm located in Hebden Bridge, so could drive over to collect. Best, Andrew On 16/11/2023 10:24, Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk wrote: > Folks, > > > > Trying to reduce the weight in my loft and I would like to donate my HP > Photoplotter to a good home. > > . Photos of the plotter and some sample plots are on my OneDrive here:- > > > > https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ag4BJfE5B3ongspXY7zySSZsDj-WMg > > > > It has both serial and IEEE interfaces and uses HPGL like the GP and Roland > pen plotters. > > The plots on there are the samples built into the plotter taken on a Fuji > XE-1 digital camera and are cropped because the Fuji does not have a full > frame sensor. > > The tube is actually a white tube and the colours are generated by rotating > colour filters. > > Its powered by a 68000 and you can see the various boards in the pictures. > > > > Dave > > > > >
