[cctalk] Re: PDP8 @ 50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXTQvlkYJvI&t=4s
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
On 2024-04-20 8:33 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: For anything more sophisticated than your coffee pot the RP2040 from Raspberry Pie is a fantastic little chip, dual core 133 MHz Cortex M0+ with 8 PIO engines, 264K of RAM, ADC, UART, SPI, I2C all for under a dollar. I designed a fully functional RP2040 with 16 Mb flash for under $2.00. In large enough quantities that's encroaching on 8 bit PIC territory at over 1000 times the memory and CPU power. I am wishing for a Quality Product, cheap crap is not always better. USB comes to mind. 256Kb ram is only 32K 64 bit words. Cache memory never works. My $5 internet toaster, just exploded after 3 days. So what? Just buy the new model that works with windows 12. Download a buggy new tool chain. The Z80 tools worked. The PDP8 was built to last. 50+ years and going strong. NOT the crappy PI PDP-8 or PDP-10. I give it 2 years max. Now a PI style computer with compact FLASH x 2, NO USB and 2 MEG ram , real serial and printer ports that will work in a noisy industrial setting, would be quite usefull. I'd pay even $3 for it. :)
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
For anything more sophisticated than your coffee pot the RP2040 from Raspberry Pie is a fantastic little chip, dual core 133 MHz Cortex M0+ with 8 PIO engines, 264K of RAM, ADC, UART, SPI, I2C all for under a dollar. I designed a fully functional RP2040 with 16 Mb flash for under $2.00. In large enough quantities that's encroaching on 8 bit PIC territory at over 1000 times the memory and CPU power. On 4/20/2024 6:30 PM, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote: On 4/20/24 13:16, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: Who still uses the Z80 line for new projects? Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper to just use an Arduino or Raspberry Pi? I dissected a dead coffee maker last week that has a current-design 8051 clone running the control board. Well-known instruction sets and "Nobody cares if I clone this" make powerful arguments Doc
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
On 4/20/24 13:16, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: Who still uses the Z80 line for new projects? Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper to just use an Arduino or Raspberry Pi? I dissected a dead coffee maker last week that has a current-design 8051 clone running the control board. Well-known instruction sets and "Nobody cares if I clone this" make powerful arguments Doc
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
On 2024-04-20 12:20 p.m., Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: On 4/20/2024 1:16 PM, Wayne S wrote: Who still uses the Z80 line for new projects? Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper to just use an Arduino or Raspberry Pi? Given the list you're posting on... :-) Jim True, but the Z80 is 5 volt logic. Still important in my mind plus timing is easy to figure out if you just need 8 bit logic.
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
Good point but i’m not an trained EE, just a hobbyist so i’m just curious. I buy Z80’s and other’s for repair projects but … Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 20, 2024, at 11:20, Jim Brain wrote: > > On 4/20/2024 1:16 PM, Wayne S wrote: >> Who still uses the Z80 line for new projects? Wouldn’t it be easier and >> cheaper to just use an Arduino or Raspberry Pi? > > Given the list you're posting on... :-) > > Jim
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
On 4/20/2024 1:16 PM, Wayne S wrote: Who still uses the Z80 line for new projects? Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper to just use an Arduino or Raspberry Pi? Given the list you're posting on... :-) Jim
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
Who still uses the Z80 line for new projects? Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper to just use an Arduino or Raspberry Pi? Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 20, 2024, at 10:54, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > > to
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
On 4/20/2024 9:55 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 4/19/24 21:07, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Gee! Have sales gone down? One more reason to use the 8080 subset when writing CP/M programs. Aren't there already some licensed second sources? Harris also made an all-CMOS plug-compatible Z-80. I used it in a low-power project. Jon This was my line of thinking... * Aren't there second/third sources for the original? * I understand the core lives on in ez80 and other lines. Is it possible to make a small PCB with a 40 pin DIP footprint and put one of these other designs on there? (I admit I have not looked at the other cores, so perhaps they can't be coaxed to act like just a Z80, just wondering). Jim -- Jim Brain br...@jbrain.com www.jbrain.com
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
On 4/20/24 01:37, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote: > There's this thing called "inflation", which does tend to become somewhat > significant after four decades. > > In the mid-80s, a pint of beer cost about 70 pence. I've escaped that > benighted island, but according to friends who were not so lucky it is now > now seven quid in London these days. That's enough to drive you to drink, > except, well... Absent the price of a pint at the local pub, the sub-$1.00 price for a Z-80 was remarkable for the time. Well within the range of the price range of MSI or even DRAM chips. I note that at the time, Zilog was being run as a subsidiary of Exxon, the oil giant. Other acquisitions of the time, (Qyx, Qwip and Vydec in the Office Systems, Ray Point uranium ore processing) fared as badly from mismanagement as did Zilog. After the relative flop of the Z8000, it seems that the Z80 remained the bread-and-butter part of the whole venture. The other acquisitions appear to be consigned to the dustbin of history. Zilog was fortunately saved from that fate by a buy-back by employees and management in 1989. Still, the succeeding years were pretty rocky, including a Chapter 11 bankruptcy. That Zilog survives today is remarkable. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
On 4/19/24 21:07, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Gee! Have sales gone down? One more reason to use the 8080 subset when writing CP/M programs. Aren't there already some licensed second sources? Harris also made an all-CMOS plug-compatible Z-80. I used it in a low-power project. Jon
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
On 4/19/24 20:57, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: As it is now, running z80 production must no longer be profitable for Zilog, but some other manufacturer can license z80 production. Right? If there is a demand someone will produce them Rochester Electronics might buy up the masks and uncut wafers. That's their business model. Jon
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
On 2024-04-20 04:37, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote: Unless people start panic-buying them, Z80 chips are likely to languish in Mouser etc's warehouses for years. After all, Zilog wouldn't stop production of something in high demand. They will be still at Mouser/DigiKey for a while, then be moved to Rochester & alike for the time being. You won't be able to buy single quantities anymore, that's all.
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 09:34:42PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 4/19/24 19:39, ben via cctalk wrote: [...] >> Now is a good time to stock up for any z80 projects or repair, while they >> are $10 or less on epay. Unless people start panic-buying them, Z80 chips are likely to languish in Mouser etc's warehouses for years. After all, Zilog wouldn't stop production of something in high demand. > I seem to remember that in the mid 80s, OEM quantity price for a Z80A was > less than a buck a chip. There's this thing called "inflation", which does tend to become somewhat significant after four decades. In the mid-80s, a pint of beer cost about 70 pence. I've escaped that benighted island, but according to friends who were not so lucky it is now now seven quid in London these days. That's enough to drive you to drink, except, well...
