[cctalk] Re: Thirties techies and computing history

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

 I suppose this makes a good point for me to jump in with my 20 
milli-dollarsworth.  To establish context, I'm in the middle to upper part of 
the age rangeat 62.  My first contact with a computer was my cousin's Altair 
around '76or '77.  The first exposure to information about computing were a 
PDP-8manual and a FORTRAN manual centered on the 1620 in the attic growingup.

I'm not sure where it came from, but even as early as my freshman year 
ofcollege, I had some interest in the history of the field.  Several of us 
misseda few days of class to attend NCC '81 in Chicago.  That year they 
werecelebrating the 35th anniversary of the UNIVAC I.  One of the days 
wasdesignated "founders' day" and they had a session where several 
earlypioneers spoke.  My memory is a little foggy, but I'm pretty sure the 
listincluded Hopper, Backus, Eckert, Kay Mauchly (John had already passed),and 
I think maybe even Zuse.  To this day, I've never been able to finda definitive 
list of who was there, much less a recording or transcript ofwhat they said.  
But it definitely made an impression on me.  That eventwas also coupled with an 
accidental brush with history during my undergraddays.  One day I was wandering 
through the stacks at the library when abook caught my eye.  The spine simply 
had the title "Manual of Operation."Of course, I had to take the volume down 
and see what it was the manualof operation for.  It was an original copy of the 
manual for the Harvard Mark I!Needless to say, I checked it out.

On Sunday, May 19, 2024 at 05:00:04 PM UTC, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk 
 wrote:  
 > But, Bill, maybe you did influence at least one student or more when you 
 > showed them> the PDP or VAX. Perhaps we don't know who, but we have to keep 
 > believing that we are> influencing someone somewhere.

That brings us to the present where I'm also on the faculty of a universityand 
am doing but a tiny amount to try to keep the history alive.  On Tueday,I'll be 
doing what I've come to call my CS professor endurance test wherefor six 
lectures in a row, I'll be presenting what has become a traditionallecture for 
our freshmen.  In it, I trace a line of influence from the Whirlwind,through 
the LINC, to a PDP-8/M that I demonstrate for the class, to the8-bit computers 
that I grew up with.  I've generally heard good thingsabout the experience, so 
there are at least some who are getting somevery brief exposure.

The other comment I'll make has to do with the natural evolution ofthe 
hobby/study of history.  The older things get, the more studyingthem becomes 
something specialized.  The number of people whoare enthusiasts of the '70s and 
'80s 8-bit micros here is certainly verystrong, and quite a number of us are 
also into minis from the likes ofDEC, DG, and HP.  But the interest in the 
vacuum tube machines ismuch more specialized.  It's natural to gravitate to 
what was availableand aspirational when we were first exposed to computing, but 
therewill always be some of us who go deep into older stuff.  I, myself, 
amseveral years down the rabbit hole of the ENIAC, the most recent bitbeing a 
direct demonstration of its Turing completeness:

http://cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/eniac/turing/


So I feel confident that the interest will always be there, but it will 
alwaysbe confined to a relatively small subset of those in the field.  As much 
asI think we'd all argue that it's important for anyone to know about the 
historyof their field, it's not likely to become pervasive unless the big-name 
employerssitting on advisory boards for CS departments start saying "you really 
needto have a required computer history class."  When every CS major hasthe 
experience of writing some PDP-8 assembly code and toggling itin on a front 
panel, when they all have the experience of realizing a differentialequation on 
an analog computer, when they have all written a simulatorfor an old machine, 
then I'll be able to die happy.  At this rate, I'll live forever.

BLS



  

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Wed, Mar 08, 2023 at 05:24:40AM -0600, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote:
> We're making final touches on a short history-video we've been making about
> home computers (my daughter, in middle school, has been helping).
> 
> If anyone has time/interest to do a review, the draft listing is here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9mgSVJZoFc

Steve,
I'll start by echoing what others have said in congratulating
you and your daughter on an excellent video.  

If you all are interested a different take on the origins of
personal computing, here's a recording I made for use during
the pandemic of a talk that I give every year to our freshmen
at Drexel University.

https://1513041.mediaspace.kaltura.com/media/Whence+Came+the+Personal+Computer/1_dq6va75g
 

If you'd like to go back even farther, here's a page I have
on the ENIAC.  At the bottom are links to a number of talks
I've given on the subject:

http://cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/eniac/

Again, good job, and I'm very happy to see that your daughter
is interested in the history of computing.

BLS

ENIAC 75th Anniversary Celebration

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

This evening begins a series of events celebrating the
75th anniversary of the unveiling of the ENIAC at the
University of Pennsylvania.  On the 11th and 18th, the
Philadelphia Venture Cafe will be hosting virtual round
tables with a number of us who have some connection to
the ENIAC and Philadelphia technology.  Included among
the people present will be:

- Bill Mauchly and Chris Eckert, sons of the ENIAC
creators
- Bill Mensch, part of the 6502 engineering team
- Kathy Kleiman, producer of the ENIAC programmers
documentary

(And yes, I'll be there for anyone who wants to get
nerdy and talk about the technical aspects of the
machine and its programming.)

Monday, the 15th is the day of the anniversary, and
there will be a full day of webcasting.  Starting at
10:30 EST, UPenn will be holding a mini-symposium in
recognition of the ENIAC.  Then at 3:30 EST, Unisys
will be webcasting an ENIAC celebration video that
includes a number of panel discussions, as well as
clips from early newsreels, and happy birthday wishes
from the various locations housing ENIAC artifacts.

More details and links to all the events can be found
here:

http://www.eniacday.org/events/

BLS

Re: Ridiculous RL11's on eBait

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Friday, January 29, 2021, 5:44:05 PM EST, Noel Chiappa via cctalk 
 wrote: 
> This seller:
>
>  https://www.ebay.com/itm/303862645513
>
> is _completely_ insane! ~$2400 for an RL11 board?

But you get a discount if you order 2...  :)

BLS

Re: APL\360

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Friday, January 29, 2021, 10:19:54 AM EST, Liam Proven via cctalk 
 wrote: 
>On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 at 13:11, Peter Corlett via cctalk  
>wrote:
>>
>> It is *also* the use of symbols. Firstly, some people are just symbol-blind
>> and prefer stuff spelled out in words. It's just how brains are wired.
> 
> Agreed. I submit this is also why some people find Lisp (and perhaps
> Forth and Postscript) straightforward, while to others it remains
ineffable.

This reminds me of something I once heard Grace Hopper
say.  Now this won't be an exact quote since I'm relying
on some rather old memory.  As I remember it, she said:

"There are basically two kinds of people in the world.
The first is those of use who are Mathematicians at
heart.  We want to take all the words and turn them
into symbols.  Everyone else wants to take all the
symbols and turn them into words.  COBOL is for
them."

BLS

Re: RL02 Disk and maybe pdp11 something at auction.

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Monday, October 19, 2020, 5:34:03 PM EDT, Chris Zach via cctalk 
 wrote: 
> Maybe. If so it's a seriously overpowered 11/84 with only a pair of 
> RL02's. Might also be an 11/24.
> 
> I'll check into it. NJ isn't too far away although I don't think it will 
> fit easily in a Porsche 928. So I'd have to rent a truck as well. Hm
>
> Anyone else bidding on it?

I'm definitely considering it.  I'm located in south
Jersey so I'm not too far from it.  Though if the bids
get up to more than nominal, I expect I'll drop out.

I'm sure it won't fit in my Boxster either, and I doubt
it'll fit in my wife's CR-V.  So I'd probably rent a van
or small truck too.  I moved a VAX 3600 in the same
cabinet in U-Haul van, so I at least have an idea
what I'm getting myself in for.

BLS

Re: Odd book

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

 On Saturday, May 9, 2020, 11:42:11 AM EDT, Tony Duell via cctalk 
 wrote:
>On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 4:23 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk  
>wrote:
>>
>> > From: Dwight Kelvey
>>
>> > There was a fellow that made a relay logic that could play tic tac toe

There's a guy who brings the stepper/relay TTT machine
he did in high school to VCFSE every year.

>> In high school, my math teacher (I think it was) used a couple of matchboxes
>> and some beads to create a TTT device; he 'programmed' it by playing against
>> it, and when the device lost a game, he pulled out the bead that indicated
>> the device's previous move, so it could never make that losing move again.
>> Pretty impressive, I thought...
>
> I am pretty sure that was in one of Martin Gardner's columns
> (Mathematical Games) in Scientific American, and is reprinted in one
> of his books. Of course he might have got it from your teacher rather
> than vice versa.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, the game is called hexapawn,
though it's played on a 3x3 grid, like TTT. I've always
had a fond spot for that article. It was one of my inspirations
back when I did a lot of AI.

BLS
  

Happy 74th Birthday ENIAC

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On this, the 74th anniversary of the unveiling of
the ENIAC, I've decided to post a couple of things
I've been working on.  The first is the 3D model
of the ENIAC mentioned before.  It's designed
using brlcad, from the Ballistics Research Lab.
It just seemed too appropriate to model it using
the tool devleoped where it lived.  The
thingiverse link is:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4164825

The second thing is a draft of a chapter from a
book I'm in the very early stages of.  It
describes the basic circuit designs used in the
ENIAC with SPICE simulations of them.  The layout
and formatting are based on the old Army Technical
Manuals of the time.

http://cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/eniac/ch1.pdf

Enjoy,
BLS

P.S. Apologies if you got this multiple times; I've
posted it to a few lists I'm on.

Re: HP9816 PAL16L8

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Tue, 6/11/19, dwight via cctalk  wrote:
> When I needed to create a PAL from a schematic, I first made
> a schematic of what the PAL was suppose to do, using the
> same basic model of logic that the PAL provided. Once I was
> done, I took the PAL map from the TI book and made red dots
> on each of the connections I needed. I'd then go back

I thought I was the only one!  Back when I first used a PAL, I
also photocopied the page from the databook, marked up
the connections I wanted, and then asked my coworkers
how to get that programmed into the device.  It was pretty
annoying to learn I had to convert it to equations first.  It
seemed like a pointless extra step when the software was
just going to turn around and turn the equations back into
the matrix wiring I had just marked up.

BLS

Re: Plane of core memory

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Thu, 4/18/19, dwight via cctalk  wrote:
> My understanding was that the mercury delay lines
> needed periodic repairs ( not sure what the cause
> was but mercury does dissolve into many metals ).
> If I were going to make a delay line memory, I'd go with
> the magnetostrictive. These are practical to make. One just
> needs a little ingenuity and a spool of piano wire.
> Dwight

Or still do a fluid one, but take Turing's suggestion
and use gin as the medium.

BLS

Re: V6 cc needs hash before whitespace before first include?

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Thu, 2/28/19, Fritz Mueller via cctalk  wrote:
> I've just been tripped up for a little
> over the fact that the C compiler barfs if there is
> whitespace/comentary before the first #include; the
>
> I found this curious.  Anybody
> know what the story is there?

My recollection is that it's documented in the 6th
Ed C manual that # has to be in the first column.
Beyond that, I vaguely recall something to the effect
that if the first line isn't a preprocessor directive,
then it skips any preprocessing at all.

BLS
 

Re: PDP-8/e

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

Several years ago when I restored my 8/M, I whipped up
a quick and dirty program that uses TCL/Tk to make a
little graphical interface for selecting, reading, and punching
paper tape images.  When running, it looks something
like this:

https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/museum/asrscreen.jpg

You need the P9P (Plan9 from user space) libraries installed
to build it, but I could whip up a binary for you if you'd like
to try it out.  I typically run it in a shell script that looks like:

#!/bin/sh

xterm -vb -sb -geom +180+10 -fg '#D0D0FF' -bg black -e asr33 $*


BLS


On Fri, 12/7/18, Rod G8DGR via cctalk  wrote:

 Subject: PDP-8/e
 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
 Date: Friday, December 7, 2018, 4:59 AM
 
 
 Hi All
    Seasons Greetings..
 
 My PDP-8/e was long due for a major
 overhaul. 
 1. So everything out
 2. Big Hoover job on the Omnibus 
 3. Bring up on Variac – No smoke
 4. Check  PSU volts. – All OK
 5. Power off
 6. Install minimal System – Front
 Panel, Three CPU cards, RFI shield,  4k Core and Bus
 term.
 7. Yup all looks in right order
 8. Power on
 9. Toggle in standard AC count up
 program
 10. Clear + Cont 
 11. And they are racing at
 Rockingham!!
 12. Yup counts up just like it should.
 13. Let it run for a while.
 14. All stop.
 15. PSU off
 16. Inset Async Card (Its 110 baud
 only)
 17. Fire up VT100. Beep - yup its
 alive.
 18. Toggle in keyboard echo test.
 19. Clear + Cont – Program runs
 20. And .. yes keyboard gets echoed
 back.
 
 OK now I need a little help. 
 Does anybody know of a terminal
 emulation program that will simulate the reader on an
 ASR33?
 I know about   RIM and BIN loaders
 but how and what to feed them I have long forgotten
 My PDP-8 course completion certificate
 is dated November 1975.
 
 Rod Smallwood
 
 
 
 Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

Re: Large Collection Of Dec/Digital PDP Documentation

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Tue, 11/6/18, Zane Healy via cctalk  wrote:
> For those not in the know, orange binders for RT-11 should mean v5.x.  An 
> probably v4.x for
> RSX11M.  Definitely a great pile of documentation for someone that is close 
> enough!

Isn't RT-11 V4 orange?  I'll have to check when I get home, but
I'm pretty sure that's the set I have.  (That and a blue binder set
for V3 and a loose set of V2.)

BLS

Re: Desktop Metaphor

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Tue, 10/23/18, Paul Berger via cctalk  wrote:
> This is my issue with a lot of Linux distros they seem to try to hard to 
> look and work like mac or like windows while I would rather have them 
> look and work like the xwindows I knew and loved.  One of my biggest 
> aggravations is cut and paste I would very much rather it worked more 
> like it used to on X.

Amen Brother!

I mostly use rio (based on the same named windowing
system on Plan 9) for my window manager so at least
I get to avoid the dancing frogs.  But back in the '80s
we were using a much nicer approach to cut-and-paste
on X than the commercial guys ever managed.

Time to take my cane back inside now that I've finished
yelling at the kiddies to get off my lawn.

BLS

Re: AlphaWindows - Protocol Information?

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Wed, 9/5/18, Al Kossow via cctalk  wrote:
> Martin and I thank you!

Al and Martin,
I've run the standard though our fancy copier
at the office and had it scan at 400dpi, bilevel
directly to PDF.  A quick look with xpdf seems
to be a pretty decent scan.  I've put it up here:

http://cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/alphawindows.pdf

I also had a sales slick from ADDS for their
4000/AWT terminal that supported AlphaWindows.
I went ahead and scanned that one in color:

http://cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/adds_4000awt.pdf

Hope that helps,
BLS

Re: What platform can run m68k COFF binaries?

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Wed, 9/5/18, Ethan Dicks via cctalk  wrote:
> The part that puzzles me is the collection of object files and
> binaries in the directory above that.  'file' tells me that they are
> "m68k COFF" files.  From what I've read so far, COFF binaries are from
> System V Release 2-4.  What I can't reconcile is what they might have
> been compiled on.  Is it possible these were made for A/UX?  The
> relevant file dates (late-1988 through mid-1989) do overlap
> availability of A/UX version 1.

I'm pretty sure the AT UNIX PC (7300/3b1) used COFF.
I remember messing around with it when porting an old
version of gcc to the machine.  At that time, GNU was
playing around with something called robotusin (COFF
medicine).

BLS

Re: AlphaWindows - Protocol Information?

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Wed, 9/5/18, Martin Hepperle via cctalk  wrote:
> In the 1990s a computer terminal standard "AlphaWindows" was proposed by the
> Display Industry Association (DIA). Sort of X-Windows for the poor.
> 
> Does anyone have a manual with escape sequences for one of the terminals
> mentioned? Or other material describing this protocol?

It so happens that I do have a copy of the standard.  I
suppose I'm one of only a few who paid the $99 to DIA
to get a copy.  Back in the early '90s I started writing an
implementation for the Mac, but ended up not getting
very far before other projects pushed it down onto the
stack.  I'll see what I can do about scanning it for you.

BLS

Re: 8085 Dissasembly?

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Tue, 4/17/18, Eric Smith via cctalk  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 7:29 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk 
>  wrote:
>> Disassembly is never lots of fun,
>
> Some of us might disagree.
> But then, some of us might be masochists.

I was just thinking the same thing.  This whole discussion
has taken me back to fond memories of writing a 68000
disassembler in AWK (long story).

BLS

Re: RL02 to PC image

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Fri, 12/15/17, Ethan Dicks via cctalk  wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 1:49 PM, systems_glitch  
> wrote:
> > It's on my list of things to do -- you can run external clock into DL11 and
> > DLV11-J style connectors, and IM6402 UARTs are supposed to go up to 2 mbit,
> > so somewhere between 38400 and 2 mbit should be possible.
> 
>  A side-effect of modding the DLV11J could be high-speed TU58 emulation...

The LSI-11 I had at last spring's VCFs did that with a little home-brew
6809 board I was using for TU58 emulation.  I wasn't going into a
DLV11 per se, but into an MXV11.

I'd have to go back and look at the details to see how fast it was actually
running.  Somewhere in the back of my mind, I had to back off a little
bit on what the hardware could do because something on the software
side couldn't take it that fast.

BLS

Re: Details about IBM's early 'scientific' computers

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Wed, 11/15/17, Jon Elson via cctalk  wrote:

> PDP-5 and LINC certainly fit that requirement.
 
Funny the LINC should come up tonight.  Earlier this evening
I went to a talk given by Mary Allen Wilkes who was the
developer of the system software for the LINC.  She had one
in her parents' house around the 1965 timeframe.  Here's
a pic of her with that machine.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Mary_Allen_Wilkes_-_LINC_at_Home_-_1965.jpg

Hard not to call the LINC "personal" in that context.

BLS

Re: Computing Pioneer Dies

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Fri, 11/10/17, Dave Wade via cctalk  wrote:

> https://www.theguardian.com/global/2017/nov/08/geoff-tootill-obituary

This raises the question, is there anyone still alive from those
first-generation projects?  I had guessed that at age 101, Harry
Husky was the last one still alive when he passed away earlier
this year.  To put a finer point on the question, is anyone who
was involved with the original designs of the ENIAC, the Baby,
the EDSAC, the Pilot ACE, the Z1, or the Harvard Mark I still
with us?

BLS

Re: OT: the death of shortwave / Re: Hallicrafters S-85

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Fri, 10/20/17, Al Kossow via cctalk  wrote:

> I've noticed since I've gotten into this again that there is a lot of 
> closed-source thinking

It's pretty disturbing when you think about how the amateur
radio world developed and that it was given legal status
in part to encourage experimentation.

Personally, I wish people would wake up to the reality that
any proprietary protocol is actually a violation of the prohibition
against encrypted traffic.  Any protocol that is not published
is a shared secret (i.e. a key).  The original plaintext cannot
be recovered without the secret.  That's pretty much the
definition of symmetric encryption.

Of course, some would claim that a proprietary protocol is
not "encoded for the purpose of obscuring the meaning."
However, I would argue that such protocols exist for the
purpose of obscuring the meaning in such a way that those
who have not paid the key ransom (purchase of proprietary
equipment, paying licensing fees, etc) are prevented from
understanding the traffic.  In other words, a proprietary
protocol exists precisely to obscure for the purpose of
monatary gain.

This same reasoning is also one of the reasons that I
summarily reject any proprietary file formats, closed
source software, etc.

BLS
wd4awy

Re: Not Booting OS/8

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Tue, 8/8/17, Rod Smallwood via cctalk  wrote:

>          Well not surprisingly it didn't. I keyed in the bootstrap and 
>
> So next move will be to try and see if we can read / write the registers 
> on the controller card.
> 
> First find out what address they are at.

Unlike the 11s, the device registers on an 8 aren't memory
mapped.  The controller effectively adds instructions to the
repetoire.  Doug Jones' site has a good summary of the RX8
functionality:

http://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/man/rx01.html

BLS

Re: TU-58 in simh

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Fri, 4/21/17, Don North via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On 4/21/2017 4:25 PM, Brian L. Stuart via cctalk wrote:
>> I've seen suggestion that TU-58s are emulated in simh on
>> PDP-11s.  However, I'm not seeing it in a show dev and my
>> google-fu is failing me to find any info on how to use it.  Any
>> pointers on how to boot from a TU-58 image?
>
> Using simh v4.0 from github, in the PDP11 simh ini file:
 
Thanks much.  I was using v3.9 which is why I couldn't find
it.  Not everything is working yet, but at least it's loading
and running the boot block.

BLS

TU-58 in simh

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

I've seen suggestion that TU-58s are emulated in simh on
PDP-11s.  However, I'm not seeing it in a show dev and my
google-fu is failing me to find any info on how to use it.  Any
pointers on how to boot from a TU-58 image?

TIA,
BLS

Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation

[Brian L. Stuart via cctalk]

On Sat, 3/11/17, Douglas Taylor via cctalk  wrote:
> One of the things  that I tried
> was running kermit inside the xterm window, I was able to 
> connect to the Vax but was unable to test the graphics portion.

There are two things that come to mind as possibilities.  First, if
xterm isn't getting switched into Tek mode, who knows what you'll
see displayed.  To force it into Tek mode, start it with the -t option
or in a vt100 xterm window do a ctrl-middle click and you'll get a
menu where you can select "Switch to Tek Mode."  The other
possibility is that depending on setting, kermit might not be 8-bit
clean.  IIRC the Tek escape codes need the terminal line to be
in 8-bit mode.  When I'm connecting to a device speaking the Tek
escape codes, I usually use cu instead, and it's generally worked
pretty well for me.

BLS