[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks
I have a vague recollection of someone telling me there was a trick to demagnetizing high density disks. Perhaps wave a magnet in various ways, even moving the magnet to and from the disk's surface. Then again maybe it's just a chatgpt style hallucination. Wouldn't hurt to try though.
[cctalk] Re: BASIC
Quick Basic and I seem to recall all or most of M$ Quick compilers were released at 99$ US. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. As I think on it maybe QB i itially was 150$. Those were the cheap compilers I was referring to. By 1987/88 the cost was less then 1/2 a week's take home earnings no matter what you did. I found QB 3 at a computer show in 1990 and it wasn't much at all, maybe 25$. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Friday, May 3rd, 2024 at 9:40 AM, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, May 03, 2024 at 02:51:06AM +0000, Just Kant via cctalk wrote: > > > BASICs available at bootup were nice, but really were only useful with 8 > > bit micros. IBM ROM BASIC was hobbled until you ran BASICA from disk. And > > if you had a floppy it only made sense to buy a cheap compiler (Quick > > Basic, Turbo Basic, etc.). Whatever you were missing by not dropping > > 4-500$ for a full product probably wasn't worth the expense. > > > A bit of perspective: the equivalent of $400-500 (~£200-250) was a couple of > weeks salary in the UK at the time. Unless it could be written-off as a > business expense, the purchase of that "cheap" compiler just wasn't > happening.
[cctalk] Re: BASIC
BASICs available at bootup were nice, but really were only useful with 8 bit micros. IBM ROM BASIC was hobbled until you ran BASICA from disk. And if you had a floppy it only made sense to buy a cheap compiler (Quick Basic, Turbo Basic, etc.). Whatever you were missing by not dropping 4-500$ for a full product probably wasn't worth the expense. ROM BASICs outlived their usefulness very quickly. Compiled Basic was an entrance into real world development. It wasn't a tool you could do everything with. But how many programmers sitting at home were creating apps that were even 64k in size. Compiled Basic was the schnitzel. There are also several 32/64 bit versions available for free. Carry on.
[cctalk] Re: BASIC
My first experience with programming (BASIC) and even computers was on an Atari 400 in 9th grade. I hated those damned things, I guess mainly on account of the membrane keyboard. Elfin tight wads. In 10th I again decided to enroll in computer courses, FARTRAN and then COBOL. Mostly on teletype terminals that were arguably more unpleasant experience then BASIC on the 400. We had at least 1 Commodore Pet im the "lab". It would have been nice to use that which had an actual keyboard and screen.
[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks
Format it more then once. That may afford additional stability. Try formatting it in a pc. Then switch over to the HP.
[cctalk] looking for HP 9836U color monitor
Northeast US roughly.
[cctalk] oddity or just early 5160 mobo?
I sort of doubt any of these boards were factory supplied this way, but the date codes on the ram in question are consistent with most other ics . the other banks contain chips that are months older, or newer. 64-256KB SYSTEM BOARD 18 TI gold capped 4164-20 chips in banks 0 and 1. Mix of Fujitsu, TI, NEC chips in banks 2 and 3. There are a half dozen numeric codes present on the board. I don't know what any signify.
[cctalk] Re: Borland Turbo C++ and Turbo Basic - Books and Manuals
What about cans? They don't shatter. What? Too American? I mean I won't drink out of anything but glass. But dad used to drink those tall boy Rheingold and Schaeffer. He was so nasty in the mornings. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Sunday, April 7th, 2024 at 4:14 PM, Harald Arnesen via cctalk wrote: > ben via cctalk [07/04/2024 20.05]: > > > I don't think bottles would be ship able. Now a keg of beer might be. > > Or a least the old oak kegs you read in stories. > > > No problem to ship beer bottles, just pack them in diapers. We do this > all the time in the Norwegian homebrew competitions. Now, diapers are > the only thing really cheap in Norway. > -- > Hilsen Harald.
[cctalk] cheap boards for 16/32 bit apps
Ifo you absolutely must run something old, yet don't want to deal with the complexities of modern emulation: https://www.ebay.com/itm/191322319264 - drivers, whatever is needed, likely to be included on floppy. Ask seller. Not sure what tbe form factor it is. Who cares, nail it to a board or the wall. https://www.ebay.com/itm/283869740055 - obviously a lot faster. 2nd cpu isn't necessary or necessarily beneficial, but it is mandatory (says me, don't be a plebe). Unlike the Intel S5000 series serverboards, this bad boy has a FLOPPY connector. Should boot dos. But I haven't owned 1 yet. Can't remember if I even tried to boot my s5000vsadimmr4 or whatever I had from a dos loaded boot cd. Just can't. But my board did boot Windows 2000. Not too shabby. No drivers or i/o plate with this though. Drivers for Win2k are on tne net. I even foumd a manual I think. Check with me if you have need. The Intel boards have support for Win2008. NOT this board afaik. If that matters to you. Serverboards of this gen/chipset have steemy hot ram. You can nail this to the wall also. But have a desk fan to keep it all cool.
[cctalk] Re: EMP was: oscilloscopes
Accordimg to certain individuals on this list, going back a few years, electronics/computers can be damaged due to an electrical storm, presumably very intense activity, even while off. Go look through the archives. I knew people back in the 80s that said they could "torque" certain frequencies with a cb radio in the vicinity of a car wash and turn the whole joint on! Vending machines are/were said to be similaely vulnerable. Such is the basis behind emc testing. I should know. A specific component is wrapped with wire say, or is placed in front of various antennas, and currents are pumped through or frequencies are directed at the item to see if it fails. Or fries (very uncommon). Specifications are provided as to what tests need to be conducted, literally, or radiated. If the item fails, additional work is required to keep the item in spec so that it doesm't fail in the field. Which frequencies are present in an EMP I couldn't tell you. But I have to believe they delivered with considerable power. I did work like that back in the 80s. In general I don't think too much equipment was radiation hardened back then. It was believed then the threat would be from a neutron bomb. A high altotude emp strike probably wouldn't affect much. But I'd certainly be concerned about one in the vicinity of a server farm or a military complex may frig up quite a bit. You don't havento knock out everyone's electronics in order to frig up a society or crucial portions of it. I'm binging Pikard at the moment. Their comms have limited effectiveness because relays (repeaters?) don't exist in 2024. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Monday, April 1st, 2024 at 9:46 PM, Christian Kennedy via cctalk wrote: > On 4/1/24 17:42, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: > > > Will things like PDAs and tablets, powered off and stored inside steel ammo > > boxes survive? > > > Yes, as will most contemporary electronics, even without elaborate > protection. > > The amount of current induced in a device by EMP is a function of the > number and length of conductors; most modern electronics are unlikely to > have an issue given relatively short conductor lengths. Automotive > ECUs, in particular, are unlikely to be affected, as they're equipped > with seriously clamped lines and generally have been tested in lightning > simulators (EMP looks like lightning, but EMP has a much faster rise > time, much higher voltages, and vastly higher currents); likewise the > commercial electrical grid is likely to be largely unaffected due to > existing lightning protection. If your device can withstand a nearby > lightning strike, it's probably going to survive a high altitude EMP event. > > The biggest problem for semiconductor devices is from neutron flux when > under power, hence weird solutions for military systems where a PN diode > will be used to trigger a crowbar on the power supply (ionizing > radiation arrives well in advance of the neutrons). The upshot is that > warfighting systems will recover, although the same probably can't be > said for the warfighters. > > Yes, I spent entirely too much time in this space in my misspent youth. > > Note that none of this is to suggest that all electronics will survive, > but the doom and gloom people associate with high altitude EMP, and > Carrington events in particular, are generally overblown. > > -- > Christian Kennedy, Ph.D. > ch...@mainecoon.com AF6AP | DB0692 | PG00029419 > http://www.mainecoon.com PGP KeyID 108DAB97 > PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 > "Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration…"
[cctalk] oscilloscopes
I have more then I need. All the working ones are HP w/color crts, and as far as older, verifiably vintage tools (right down to the 680x0 processor in either) I have to admit I favor them as a brand. Call we an oddball, weird egg, badges I wear with pride. But who could resist the allure of the newer ultra portable, even handheld units (some with bandwidth or sampling rates to 50mhz). I'm a big cheapo. But there's no real reason to agonize over a 65 - 200$ or thereabouts acquisition. It's a bit tiring to wade through the piles of availability. I favor a desktop unit, larger screen (but not always, careful). But most of those need wall current I think? The convenience of a handheld battery powered unit obviously has it's benefits. I will always love and dote upon my color crt based HPs. But the damned things are so heavy, so unwieldy. Judy-Jude knocked my 54111d over, hit the paved floor, shook the house. And still works! Built to withstand an atomic bombardment.
[cctalk] typical IC kits on Amazon and elsewhere
Clearly all or virtually all chineseum, correct? That being the case, um, what type.of.quality can be expected? Some are fairly cheap. I guess thenworld isn't to be expected.
[cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard
I'm not at liberty at this time to disclose what nefarious purpose I have in mind. Are you selling? It depends on where you're located. But say if I was purchasing 3 boards (I personally have never heard of a 512k 5150 board), I may be willing to pay shipping from ... wherever. Please respond offlist if you are willing to sell. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Saturday, March 30th, 2024 at 4:04 PM, Marvin Johnston via cctalk wrote: > Just out of curiosity, what are you using this board for? The IBM 5150 > uses at least three different mother boards, 16K, 256k, and I think > 512K soldered in RAM. Each is expandable to 640K with 3rd sourced RAM > boards. > > I should have (somewhere) at least one of each. I also have several 5150 > complete units including keyboard (not so sure about the monitors.) > > Marvin > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 20:04:52 + > > From: Just Kant kantexpl...@protonmail.com > > Subject: [cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Message-ID: > GF90Qn4F1qIjDg9zX6isIYVyVHgohkRHHQfwzcnS3zKK8LHe0s=@protonmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > If you're willing to ship, I'll offer 30$ total. But it has to be IBM. > > > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > > > I have one at Kennett Classic for sale, I think it's $20. I believe it's > > an original IBM, but it may be a close clone. Untested. > > b
[cctalk] stack of Tab books for sale
Electronics, robotics, lasers. 10 in all. Overall comdition 6 or so out of 10. 50$ + shipping. NJ.
[cctalk] Re: need a 5150 motherboard
If you're willing to ship, I'll offer 30$ total. But it has to be IBM. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Friday, March 29th, 2024 at 3:03 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > I have one at Kennett Classic for sale, I think it's $20. I believe it's > an original IBM, but it may be a close clone. Untested. > b
[cctalk] need a 5150 motherboard
The board itself, including the traces, has to be in good shape. Don' t care about it's functionality, or even if chips are missing. An actual IBM product, regardless of revision. Might consider an entire 5150 box. NJ. Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.
[cctalk] Re: Keyboard Blockers?
O my Lord what have we here? Service Merchandise? They seemed to be the sole supplier of the ITT Xtra pcs. I had the ITT Xtra XP, an xt/80286 hybrid (no 16 bit isa slots). The memories!! I learned how to hack games on some Origin title. A.D. 2042 or what have you. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Sunday, March 10th, 2024 at 10:13 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > I took a second look and here are the keys that were 'locked': > Set Up > Break > Del > Line INS Char > Line DEL Char > Scrn CLR Line > INS Repl > Escape > Home > All the Arrow keys, up, down, right, left > > It's a standard ASCII Wyse Keyboard > > Doug > > On 3/10/2024 6:10 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > > > > I thought, at first, some dirt or debris had gotten stuck there, but > > > on closer look I saw something black below the keys that seemed to be > > > stuck. I pulled a key cap off and found a U shaped piece of black > > > plastic that was put there on purpose to prevent you from depressing > > > the key. > > > > > The question came to mind; "What sort of application would be so > > > crude that you would have to prevent the user from depressing certain > > > keys?" > > > > I saw this in at least two applications: > > > > 1. The Service Merchandise chain > > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Merchandise) used serial > > terminals for their in-showroom catalog ordering. Some keys were > > blocked somehow, though I never peeled up key caps to see how. :) > > I want to say that backspace was one of the blocked keys, the > > aggravation of which is probably why I remember this. > > > > 2. CLSI library systems (LIBS100 on PDP-11). Ours here had ADM-3A > > (iirc) terminals with the break key blocked, iirc, though there were > > plenty of other ways to discombobulate the thing inadvertently. It was > > also available via dialup from keyboards that were not so modified. > > > > I once heated up a paper clip to read hot and shoved it through the stem > > of a TVI-925's SEND key, which was used for block mode functions, and > > caused the terminal to vomit screen contents back to the host. Unwanted > > presses of course produced a heck of a mess. (Older versions of our > > application ran in block mode, but you could always hit ESC-S to send > > the screen, and it was unfortunately easy, at least for me, to thwack > > SEND by mistake.) > > > > De > >
[cctalk] Re: Turbo Prolog
He meant to say Prolog, not Pascal. Regardless if you want to alleviate all the fuss and mess of running 16 bit wares on modern h/w, just look for a 32 bit cast off. Many appropriate mobos can be had on epay for a song. Now no one I know wants to spend the next 40 years writing 16 bit apps. But if it can't be (easily) done otherwise, it can be done on raw metal cheaply. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Sunday, February 25th, 2024 at 6:41 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > I wrote a large application in Turbo Pascal in 1996 or so, > and it had been cast adrift since then. The computer it ran > on was getting old and I was worried it would die, and then > I discovered FPC (Free Pascal Compiler). It was designed to > port over Turbo Pascal and DEC Pascal programs, and took the > separate compilation directives like uses and $I. I was > able to get that program running on a Linux system in a few > days. > > Jon
[cctalk] Re: Turbo Prolog
So the portions of code belonging to chatgpt which produce the hallucinations have been isolated? Which languages were used to build it?
[cctalk] Turbo Prolog
Has anyone used it or something contemporaneous? Is it at all applicable to any degree to today's approach to AI/machine learning tasks? I would like to perhaps eventually create a game, probably not chess, lilely something simpler. The old expert system modeling paradigm seems to have largely if not entirely fallen out of favor. From what I'm reading though TP seems to be geared for that.
[cctalk] NEC APC external floppy drivers needed
I don't even have an APC anymore. But since this thing is eyeing me menacingly I figured I'd put the request out. Butler Flats Associates dual external 5 1/4" accoutrement, has it's own controller card (based on wd1771/1772 iirc). Contact me off list if you have these. Much appreciated. Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.
