[cctalk] Re: mainframe vs mini
On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 02:00:19PM -0500, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > You mean DOS/360 as opposed to OS/360? I don't know that one. DOS/360 evolved into DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, and through a few other versions eventually evolving into today's z/VSE. > But OS/360 came in three flavors: PCP, MFS, and MVS. With OS/360 the latter two would have been MFT and MVT. MVS came later. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
[cctalk] Re: mainframe vs mini
On Thu, Mar 09, 2023 at 03:51:44PM -0600, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > I always considered a mainframe to basically be a "fully decked out" > minicomputer. I've always considered a fully decked out minicomputer to be a fully decked out minicomputer. :-) > What do you guys think? Or is a mainframe one of those giants so large, > you walk inside its CPU? Mainframes used to be that large. But these days it's hard to tell by size. When I first got into mainframe operations as an IBM OS/390 operator at my previous employers near the end of the last century, the mainframe was over in the corner of the computer room and was about the size of two large commercial refrigerators back to back. I wish I had gotten into mainframe operations a little sooner. They had just recently migrated to that box from a water cooled IBM 3090 that filled half of the computer room. I would have loved to have gotten to know the 3090. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Burroughs Emulators (Was: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?)
Jay, On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 08:56:53PM -0500, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote: > Did you try contacting that particular author? His github info > indicates it should run under Cygwin on Windows or Linux. No. I checked the github issue tracker to see if a bug report had already been filed for the issue. Before I got around to filing one someone reminded me that a SIMH B5500 emulator was available. I have MCP MARK XIII and CANDE up and running on that emulator. I also have ClearPath MCP Express Release 6.0 up and running. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: SimH B5500 Emulator with MCP XIII (Was: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?)
Lars, On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 04:34:36PM +, Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk wrote: > Richard Cornwell added one to SIMH: > > https://github.com/simh/simh/tree/master/B5500 Nice. I already had a git clone of the SIMH git repo that had it in it. I probably tried unsuccessfully in the past to find software to run on it, then forgot about it. My terrible memory is inconvenient at times. It built successfully, and Bing found documentation on running MCP XIII on it at: https://Sky-Visions.com/burroughs/B5500_quick_start.pdf I'll give it a try as soon as I have time. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?
Jay, On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 08:46:37PM -0500, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote: > There are a couple of B5500 emulators out there. One I have worked with > is pretty much fully functional, but I believe there are more than one. > B5500 System Tapes are also available online. Contact me if you need > links - might take me a few minutes to hunt them down. I'm an emulator addict, so I'd definitely be interested in checking out the available emulators. Bing found: https://GitHub.com/pkimpel/retro-b5500/ and https://GitHub.com/stacklover/b5500emulator The first lead me to the software available at: http://www.PHKimpel.us/B5500/webSite/SoftwareRequest.html and https://GitHub.com/retro-software/B5500-software The first emulator is web based, and the second fails to build. I'm not a fan of web interfaces. Are there any other B5500 emulators and/or software that Bing missed? -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Adventures online
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 09:52:14PM +0200, 821--- via cctalk wrote: > Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online running on a mainframe! > Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure games > on a mainframe > > https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1 What make/model mainframe are they running on, and what OS is it running? -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Unisys MCP (was: Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?)
On Thu, Jul 02, 2020 at 01:41:53PM -0700, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > I have never had Windows stop working despite not activating it and have > gone at least 6 months without doing so. Despite now working for MS, I > don't know the ins and outs of Windows activation. (I work on embedded > Linux there.) The Windows 7 VM I've been using to run MCP Express hasn't stopped working, but it recently started telling me I need to register to regain full functionality. I haven't figured out what functionality has been limited yet. Its desktop now has a black background with "Unregistered Version" in the lower right hand corner. Has anyone managed to get MCP Express running with Wine on Linux? I've heard of people getting OS/2200 Express running under Wine, but it doesn't have the Windows services MCP Express does. I might consider registering a copy of Windows to run under VirtualBox if Microsoft would stop trying to make the user interface look worse with each new version. I don't mind Windows 7, but newer versions look absolutely horrid. Even the new Office 365 on my Windows 7 PC at work looks terrible. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Unisys MCP (was: Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?)
Alan, On Thu, Jul 02, 2020 at 01:41:53PM -0700, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > I have never had Windows stop working despite not activating it and have > gone at least 6 months without doing so. That's encouraging. > I have been using those blogs to remind myself of how it all work. As someone new to MCP they've been a big help. This morning I started reading through the system operations guide, 86000387-512. Some concepts are going to take some getting used to. MCP physical and logical files are a bit different than AS/400 physical and logical files. Also, according to the system operations guide, a CD-ROM is a magnetized disk. I thought all CD-ROMs were optical disks. > I did my day-to-day work with CANDE (Command AND Editor) and with MCP > Express one get to that through MARC. However, when I run the MARC > script, the Windows VM crashes. This blog post: https://Unite.org/wp/tuning-the-mcp-express-installation/ says that other terminal emulators can be used to access the communications interfaces, including MARC and CANDE. Does anyone know how? I've tried connecting with PuTTY to the standard telnet port and the port the included MARC terminal shortcut uses to no avail. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Unisys MCP (was: Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?)
Alan, On Wed, Jul 01, 2020 at 08:00:00PM -0700, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > Got it installed and running on a Windows 10 VM on my MacBook. Pretty > interesting, but I haven't used MCP since '89 and seldom used the ODT > (console) on A Series systems when I did, so lots of trying to recall > how to do stuff. I got it installed and running on a Windows 7 VM on my 2009 Mac last night. I've never used MCP before, so there's been lots of reading trying to learn how to do stuff. I didn't have much time to work with it last night, so I haven't gotten very far yet. Has anyone attempted to run MCP Express under Wine on Linux? I don't know how long I'll be able to use the VM I currently have it running on. I don't have a Windows license key for it. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?
On Wed, Jul 01, 2020 at 09:17:47AM -0400, Michael Kerpan via cctalk wrote: > This thread has been truly enlightening. I had no idea that UniSys had > hobbyist versions of both their Univac and Burroughs stuff available. I'm very happy to find that MCP Express is available to hobbyists. I currently know very little about Burroughs mainframes. I've searched several times in the past for Burroughs emulators. I found a nice series of blog posts on getting started with MCP Express: https://Unite.org/wp/getting-started-with-mcp-express/ I read most of the posts last night, and received my MCP Express download link this morning. I'll download and install it as soon as I get home this evening. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?
Alan, On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 03:29:31PM -0700, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > Why would one get OS/2200 when they can get > https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-products/clearpath-mcp-software/clearpath-mcp-express > ? > > OK, I may be a little biased since my first job out of college was working at > Burroughs on MCP. I don't remember how I stumbled across the OS/2200 Express download option. I hadn't found the MCP Express download option. Now that you've pointed it out, my download request has been submitted. Hello, my name is Kevin, and I'm a mainframe emulator/mainframe OS addict. :-) -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?
Bill, On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 04:26:52PM -0400, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > Technically, I think it kinda qualifies. I was an old Univac-1100 > running Exec-8 programmer and I have already been told on more than > one occasion that my experience is totally up to date on the 2200. That's good. > I am running it just fine under Wine on Ubuntu. I'll have to give Wine a try. I don't know how long I'll be able to use the Windows 7 VM without a license key. > I don't remember there being anything like that even in the days of > the 1100. There were Univac Education Courses but nothing in the > general press. It is different, at least at the ECL vs. JCL level. After posting I found the Exec System Software Operations Manual: https://Public.Support.UniSys.com/2200/docs/CP17.0/PDF/78310281-032.pdf which has some introductory information on console keyins, etc. I think it'll help me get familiar with some of the OS basics, command parameter formats, etc. I was an IBM operator for a couple of decades, so learning console commands is right up my alley. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?
Classic Computer Fans, Technically this isn't a classic OS, but I suspect its lineage goes back far enough to be of interest. Has anyone tried out UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express? https://www.UniSys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-products/clearpath-os-2200-software/clearpath-os-2200-express I normally don't run Windows at home, but have set up a Windows 7 VM to try it out. It includes a few PDFs, including basic startup and shutdown procedures. I haven't found any intro to OS/2200 type docs yet. If anyone knows of any, please let me know. It looks like it could be an interesting system, if I can ever learn my way around. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
DtCYBER and/or CYBIS Resources
Classic Computer Fans, I tried out the CYBIS release: http://www.Control-Data.info/CybisRelease.html on the DtCYBER emulator when it first came out. I've since forgotten most of what I'd learned. Recently I fired CYBIS back up and started relearning. Does anyone know if any user mailing lists for the DtCYBER emulator and/or the CYBIS release? At the moment I'm trying to find a Linux friendly terminal type that works with NOS's FSE. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Prime Sample System Releases
Prime Fans, I just noticed on comp.sys.prime that I missed a couple of sample system releases. I have a process set up to dump messages from some news groups into my IMAP server for easy reading with my mail client, but I don't have anything set up to easily reply via the news groups. Does anyone know what's new in the recent sample system releases? -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: DIBOL and RPG for RSTS
On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 06:55:34PM +, dwight via cctalk wrote: > It is clearly not just a backwards LISP. LISP is another language that I shied away from in the past, but finally started exploring a while back. > It is not Python either. There's another point in its favor. I've tried to develop a fondness for Python over the years. It hasn't happened yet. The languages I've used most are probably Perl and Clipper. At work before we retired our mainframe I did a little COBOL, EasyTrieve, and Gener/OL programming. Now that we've migrated to an IBM i platform, I've done some CL and RPG programming. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: DIBOL and RPG for RSTS
On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 06:55:34PM +, dwight via cctalk wrote: > There are a few reasons most don't like Forth: I've looked at a few example Forth programs in the past. I usually cringed and quickly moved on. I should have done a little more research back then. This thread inspired me to take a closer look. Once I discovered that Forth uses reverse Polish notation, I'm intrigued. I was introduced to HP RPN calculators in high school, and eventually bought my own HP 11C. These days on Linux I use Orpie, a ncurses full screen RPN calculator. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Prime 50-Series emulator announcement
Dennis, On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:36:44AM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > There's a fair amount of material that we don't have packaged up for > download yet, including one or two versions of INFORMATION, some text > games, and most of a PULSE library from the Rev 17? era. The Georgia Tech > Software Tools environment is available. There are several full screen > editors, including Emacs and the Sheffield editor. We have the indexed > file handler, but not the DBMS. It sounds like we have a lot to look forward to. I have a fondness for databases, and full screen text based data entry apps, so INFORMATION and the forms management system sound particularly interesting to me. I've read through a bit of the FORMS users guide. I only found FORMS installed on the Rev 19 sample system so far, but haven't checked all the systems yet. I haven't tried to do anything with FORMS aside from listing existing forms. There weren't any. The only info I could find on INFORMATION was its product bulletin. Was it The Prisoner's title sequence where a voice kept repeating INFORMATION ... INFORMATION? For some reason that came to mind. I need to get around to watching that series. I've only seen a bit of the first episode. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Prime 50-Series emulator announcement
Bill, On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 02:50:46PM -0400, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > So, how do I login a regular user? Does the emulator come up with an > open port that I can telnet into to get a regular serial line? Use the emulator -tport command line option to set its incoming terminals port. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Prime documentation
Dennis, On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 10:51:52AM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > To continue through to the end of the startup process, tell it: > > CO CONTINUE 6 The system appears to have a few more issues. After the above: CO CONTINUE 6 OK,CO SYSTEM>DSM.SHARE.COMI 7 /* Share DSM facility Not found. (CO) ER! CO CONTINUE 6 OK,START_DSM /* Start DSM phantoms [START_DSM Rev. 22.1.4.R48 Copyright (c) 1991, Prime Computer, Inc.] [Serial #IDBR-G5RKKW-J6BW (ALBERTUS MAGNUS COLLEGE)] [12 Mar 20 10:06:44 Thursday] DSM initialization started. OK, /* CO SYSTEM>SPOOL.SHARE.COMI 7 /* Share SPOOL database OK, /* OK, /* CO SYSTEM>SPL.SHARE.COMI 7 /* Share SPL compiler OK, /* CO SYSTEM>PLP.SHARE.COMI 7 /* Share PLP compiler OK, /* CO SYSTEM>PMED.SHARE.COMI 7/* Share EDS OK, /* OK,PROP PR0 -START/* Start PR0 printer [PROP Rev. 22.1.4 Copyright (c) 1990, Prime Computer, Inc.] [Serial #IDB8-G5RKKX-K90X (ALBERTUS MAGNUS COLLEGE)] Error from Spooler (PROCESS_ASYNC-88): Not found.: Opening environment file ER! *** DSMSR (user 17) at 10:06 Unable to open journal Insufficient access rights.. ( *** DSMSR (user 17) at 10:06 Error: Unable to write loaded configuration file. () Phantom 18: Normal logout at 10:06 Time use *** SYSTEM_MANAGER (user 19) at 10:06 Unable to open journal DSM*>JOURNALS>SYSTEM_MANAGER.2. (Insufficient access rig Warning: SYSTEM_MANAGER terminated. Event logging will not take place! User 19: Phantom requested terminal input. d: 00h 00m connect, 00m 00s CPU, 00m 00s I/O. Phantom 19: Abnormal logout at 10:06 Time used: 00h 00m connect, 00m 01s CPU, 00m 00s I/O. Phantom 17: Normal logout at 10:06 Time used: 00h 00m connect, 00m 01s CPU, 00m 00s I/O. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Prime documentation
Dennis, On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 09:20:08PM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > I was able to reproduce the issue. When I repacked these using the > Rev. 22 MAGSAV, the install worked correctly. Here's the repacked tape > set: > > https://yagi.h-net.org/m2214repack.tar.gz I was able to restore from the above tapes, and have a bootable system. It looks like the system might have an editor issue. At the tail end of the boot, I'm getting: OK,CO SYSTEM>ED.SHARE.COMI 7 /* Share ED editor Not found. (CO) ER! I just downloaded the sample system images. I'll use those to start getting familiar with PRIMOS, and get back to installing a system from scratch at a later date. Thank you for all the work you've put in to making these systems and this wealth of PRIME information and resources available to hobbyists!!! -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Prime documentation
Dennis, On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 09:20:08PM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > I was able to reproduce the issue. When I repacked these using the > Rev. 22 MAGSAV, the install worked correctly. Here's the repacked tape > set: Many, many thanks!!! I'll give these a try tomorrow. For some reason this week's time change feels like we lost more than an hour. Wednesdays I go into work an hour earlier than the rest of the week. I'm about to feed my dogs and head for bed. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Prime documentation
Dennis, On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 05:03:01PM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > These are the essential ones: > > -disk -split -part -dt -badlev > > Some of the others have less-abbreviated forms that would work, but are > not critical. > > Note that at the "Enter command line options:" prompt, you can say > "-help" to see the syntax summary. I think I'm making progress. I don't know if I've encountered an emulator issue, or if the primos_22.1.4_1of3.tap tape image from Bitsavers is bad. I didn't encounter any errors unzipping the zip archive it was in. When restoring logical tape number 2 from it, I got an MT read error: MT Read Error 00 000300 020350... Unrecovered Restore aborted on: NETWORK_MGT*>ICS1DLLTSR.RUN Unexpected EOF encountered: NETWORK_MGT*>ICS1DLLTSR.RUN Assuming End of Log. tape. No LEOT record! Illegal name. followed by a variety of control characters and a few Unexpected EOF encountered: errors. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Prime documentation
Dennis, On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 04:32:00PM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Try this instead: > > $ em -boot 10005 > [Prime Emulator ver 5350ae7 Feb 17 2020] > [Copyright (C) 2005-2012 Prirun LLC pri...@gmail.com] > Booting from file mt0 > [BOOT Rev. 23.4 Copyright (c) 1993, Computervision Corp.] > > RUN FILE TREENAME=make.save > > BOOTING FROM MT0make.save > > MAKECopyright (c) 1991, Prime Computer, > Inc. > Enter command line options: -disk -part -dt -ac -badlev -baud > > Note that I've changed the em command line, and the MAKE options. That might have worked. There were some prompt differences in the next section compared to the install guide: MAKECopyright (c) 1991, Prime Computer, Inc. Enter command line options: -disk -part -dt -ac -badlev -baud Physical device? 2060 Partition name? cmddev Disk type must be one of the following: SMD 80MB or 300MB removable CMD Cartridge module device 68MB 68 megabyte fixed media 158MB 158 megabyte fixed media 160MB 160 megabyte fixed media 600MB 600 megabyte fixed media MODEL_4475 300 megabyte fixed media MODEL_4714 84 megabyte fixed media MODEL_4711 60 megabyte fixed media MODEL_4715 120 megabyte fixed media MODEL_4735 496 megabyte fixed media MODEL_4719 258 megabyte fixed media MODEL_4845 770 megabyte fixed media MODEL_4721 328 megabyte fixed media MODEL_4860 817 megabyte fixed media MODEL_4729 673 megabyte fixed media MODEL_4730 213 megabyte fixed media Disk type? 160mb Level of bad spot checking? (default = 4) 0 Baud rate? 9600 Which file sectoring scheme would you like? Type "0" (Reverse Sector) or "1" (Forward Sector) > 0 Making 8 head partition CMDDEV Tracks:821 Sectors per track: 9 Partition is using Reverse Sectoring Partition is in -All_Controller Mode Partition size in decimal records: 58910 Unable to get badspots from device: 002060 Continuing with make. (MAKE) Partition CMDDEV created successfully. After the above I have a 506K disk image file. Are any changes needed to the make options in the following section to create the paging space? Your online guide has: -disk -split -part -dt -new -ac -badlev -nin -nfl -sec -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Prime documentation
Dennis, On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 04:01:30PM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > If the disk container file is non-zero size, the make may have worked. The disk container file size is zero. > Otherwise, check the top of console.log, before the spin starts, and see > if there's anything diagnostic there. There is nothing in the console log after the make options entry: [CPBOOT Rev. 19.0 Copyright (c) 1990, Prime Computer, Inc.] [BOOT Rev. 23.4 Copyright (c) 1993, Computervision Corp.] RUN FILE TREENAME=make.save BOOTING FROM MT0make.save MAKECopyright (c) 1991, Prime Computer, Inc. Enter command line options: -disk -part -dt -new -ac -badlev -baud -nin -dbs -nfl -sec -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Prime documentation
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 03:22:31PM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Of particular use might be this writeup on installing PRIMOS Revs 22 or > 23 on the emulator. It's set up for the old demo version of the > emulator, so needs a fair amount of updating, but may help get you > started. I'll work on it soonish. > > https://sysovl.info/reference_prime_drb_installing_primos.html I got as far as MAKE options prompt. After entering: -disk -part -dt -new -ac -badlev -baud -nin -dbs -nfl -sec something appeared to get stuck in a loop, displaying: Press Enter to continue, h to halt... over and over again. I eventually resorted to killing the emulator. It took a kill -9 to get it to end. In case it gives any clues, after killing it the error.log contained: -nport is zero, PNC not started emulator: device '7 failed initialization - device removed -tport is zero, AMLC devices not started emulator: device '53 failed initialization - device removed emulator: device '54 failed initialization - device removed I did use the file names mentioned as being needed by newer versions of the emulator, disk26u0.160m and mt0. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Prime 50-Series emulator announcement
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 11:41:22AM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > I'm reposting this announcement from Jim Wilcoxson. > > Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 08:34:13 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Prime emulator source released on GitHub > From: Jim Wilcoxson > > Today, with much help from Dennis Boone, I'm releasing the Prime > emulator source code on GitHub for non-commercial use. This is exciting news. I've been curious about Primes ever since I first heard of the emulator. I took the publicly accessible systems for a spin way back then, but have forgotten what I learned. I was an IBM z/OS operator for a couple of decades. The system operation side is what interests me most. I've been hoping that the emulator and PRIMOS would be released to hobbyists some day. I've downloaded and built the emulator, and grabbed the available tape images and documentation, but I have no idea where to go from there. I'm looking forward to any future information, disk image releases, etc. I've already skimmed through a bit of the operations guide. I might be able to figure out how to install PRIMOS from tapes with the help of the Admin Guide(s). Info on configuring the emulator, creating disk images, etc., would be helpful. I did find emulator command examples in em.c. I anticipate some sleep deprivation in the near future. I've been known to loose track of time exploring new to me older systems. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
On Sun, Mar 08, 2020 at 03:21:27PM -0500, John H. Reinhardt via cctalk wrote: > IIRC there is about a two week wait from the time you get your member > number on Eisner until the number is active in the HPE database for the > Hobbyist license so you may have to wait a bit. With one of my previous renewal requests, I made a typo and entered the wrong DECUS number. They still sent hobbyist license packs to me. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: OT - FTGH - U-Matic Tapes
On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 11:30:31PM +, Kevin Parker via cctalk wrote: > A we're all aware members on this list often dabble with other > technologies. In my very aggressive cleanup of my hobby space I came > across a number of U-Matic Video Tapes. If anyone is into this older > video technology and would like these 8 tapes please contact me off > list. (They are physically located in the south west of Victoria, > Australia) I'm interested in the technology, but I'm on the wrong side of the world to add these to my collection. I have a few U-Matic tapes, but haven't found a player yet. To make this slightly less off topic, three of the U-Matic tapes I have are in an SRA Computer Training Library boxed set containing: MVS Concepts and Facilities - Mini-Course 2 - Introduction to Job Processing MVS Concepts and Facilities - Mini-Course 5 - MVS System Programs MVS: JCL Coding - Mini-Course 11 - Requesting Space for DASD Data Sets I found them in my current employer's document library years ago. Any player(s) we had were long gone, so I've never seen them. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Is IBM RPG classic?
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 03:25:26PM -0600, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk wrote: > It depends on the version and platform. For free format on an IBM i, > something like: Another good resource for modern IBM i RPG is the RPG400-L mailing list: https://Lists.MidRange.com/mailman/listinfo/rpg400-l -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Is IBM RPG classic?
On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 08:40:29AM -0800, Guy N. via cctalk wrote: > Is it classic enough to ask about on this list? Older fixed format RPG probably would be. Modern free format RPG probably wouldn't be. > A friend of mine finds himself in the awkward position of being asked to > take on some RPG programming, but knows nothing about it. I knew very little about it before we migrated from our IBM mainframe system running z/OS to an IBM i based system where I work a few years ago. > Can anyone here suggest some good resources for a crash course in RPG? It depends on the version and platform. For free format on an IBM i, something like: https://www.Amazon.com/Free-Format-RPG-IV-Express-Learning/dp/1583474137 and/or http://www.RedBooks.IBM.com/abstracts/sg245402.html might be helpful. And/or sites like the RPGPGM Blog: http://www.RPGPgm.com and/or RPG Cafe: https://www.IBM.com/developerworks/ibmi/rpg/welcome -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Tandem Minicomputers
Jason, On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 11:46:03PM -0500, Jason T via cctalk wrote: > There's such as thing as "so obscure that no one knows/cares about > it". I've had those before. Do I have another? It sure is heavy. I've been curious about Tandem systems for years. I had the opportunity to use a Tandem system briefly a couple of decades ago as an end user in freight bill entry and driver check in. I remember very little about the system, other than the exit key from most, if not all, screens was F16. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: phone systems, old and less-old
On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 11:23:38AM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > What's in a name? Accuracy. > It looked gray to me. Me too. But enough videos that I watched featured individuals who felt compelled to emphasize that were telco cables are concerned, the colors are violet and slate, not purple and gray, that I'm willing to take their word for it. It kind of reminds me of when Dr. Pulaski met commander Data, and mispronounced his name as Dat-ah, instead of Day-tah. He told her how it was pronounced. She asked, "What's the difference?" He replied, "One is my name, the other is not." Where the 25 pair telco color code is concerned, violet and slate are in the color code, purple and gray are not. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: phone systems, old and less-old
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 09:05:07PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > 25 pairs, where > > White Red Black Yellow Violet for each "bank" and within each bank > Blue Orange Green Brown Gray >From what I've heard and read, where a 25 pair cable is concerned, it's slate, not gray. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: phone systems, old and less-old
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 06:34:55PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > You have to be OLD to have used these? Golly, maybe I really am OLD. No. I encountered similar phones at a Service Merchandise I worked at in the early '90s. They were connected to some type of early PBX system. I wish I knew more about it. > My grandmother's was 46 (no exchange or dial; rural phone company). That reminds me of an early Lassie episode. Lassie was going blind, and Jeff took her into the city to a human eye doctor. The doctor asked Jeff for his phone number. Jeff replied, "There's no number. Just one long ring, two short ... Jenny knows." Jenny was the Calverton switchboard operator. > Anyone collect the old Rolm (IBM) PBX stuff? No, but if I ever come across any I might. Having worked in z/OS and AS/400 operations for a couple of decades I've developed a fondness for IBM gear. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: phone systems, old and less-old
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 01:32:21PM -0500, jwest--- via cctalk wrote: > I know zilch about phone systems, and don’t want to know anything about > phone systems They were on the wall of a warehouse telco closet that my > client just rented and we need the space on the dmarc wall for a rack. If > someone wants them, and is willing to pay ship/pack (ups) from 63146 let > me know within 2 days or they go to the skip. I sent a short replied off list to express interest. I'm not sure what it is about phone systems. I've had a fascination with them for years, especially PBX type systems. I've only recently started setting up a home PBX style phone system. At the moment I have a couple of Cisco IP phones and a few analog phones from the 1930's and 1940's working using Cisco CME on a 3845 router as a phone controller. I'm about to take a stab at punching down a 25 pair cable on a 66 block to connect to a Cisco VG224 voice gateway, which would enable me to connect 24 analog extensions to my current system. I don't know why I'm doing this. I live alone. I don't need to be able to call from one room to another in my house. I've been eyeing 1A2 key systems and Nortel PBX systems for a while, not to mention Mitel, Avaya Definity, and more. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Storage for 1/2" open reel tape
On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 10:57:54AM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > I hit on the idea of using 16mm move film plastic "cans". Much to my > surprise, I found that there is still an active market for these things. My small 16mm collection is stored on an open reel tape cart. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: IBM 3174 C 6.4 Microcode Disks?
Grant, On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 04:02:33PM -0700, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > Why do there need to be 10 VTAM/SNA nodes defined for the RS/6000? > Wouldn't it be one node unto itself, much like a 3174, with the 10 > VTAM/SNA nodes for the terminals behind it? Our RS/6000 running DirectTalk/6000 had one VTAM LU for each voice channel so that each call had its own dedicated 3270 session. Under the "3270 Operations" display it would show the list of LUs, and which, if any, scripts were running on them. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: IBM 3174 C 6.4 Microcode Disks?
Grant, On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 07:36:11PM -0700, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > If the 2513 you have is the one that was used for this, I'd love to see > the config, if it's still on there. That would very likely settle > things for my curiosity. I have the 2513 now. I'm new to Cisco router commands and configuration. If you could give me a crash course on the commands that would display the parts of the configuration that would settle things for your curiosity, I'll see what it has. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Free: 2x DEC Alpha workstations - 164LX and XP1000
Arun, On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 11:26:41AM -0600, K. Arun via cctalk wrote: > I have a couple of Alpha workstations that were last used 5-6 years ago > with some version of Tru64 on them. They haven't been turned on since, and > may need some work to get running again. They're free to anyone who thinks > they can use them, and can pick them up from the 78722 zip code (near UT > Austin). Please contact me off-list to co-ordinate pickup. I sent you an off-list reply, but thought I'd mention it here in case the off-list reply doesn't reach you. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: OT: Phone museum seeks new owner
On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 09:58:00AM -0600, John Foust via cctalk wrote: > Old tech, but not computers: I have a fondness for old rotary dial phones, especially ones like they used in movies and TV shows set in the '40s and '50s. I've never managed to acquire one. I'd love to have a few of them, but not that many. :-) -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: OT: Phone museum seeks new owner
On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 09:58:00AM -0600, John Foust via cctalk wrote: > Old tech, but not computers: > > https://madison.com/business/galesville-antique-phone-dealers-looking-to-offload-vast-collection/article_b1845009-c861-50ff-82c8-60a15866fc6d.html Interesting, but what does it have to do with Kemners Surplus? -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: IBM 3174 C 6.4 Microcode Disks?
Grant, On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 11:05:23PM -0700, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > Is that by chance a 9291? Looks like a white / bage box with a grey > strip on the front with lights or buttons and a serial port and ""phone > (PSTN) network jack on the back? Checking our hardware list it looks like I made a typo. It is a 9291. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: IBM 3174 C 6.4 Microcode Disks?
Grant, On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 07:36:11PM -0700, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > I'm running into collisions with IBM 9121 and mainframe components. > Even that is vague. I'm not having nearly the luck I usually do looking > up IBM four digit model numbers. The 9121 voice server connected a T1 line to the RS/6000 for use by DT/6000. DT/6000 was used to create interactive phone menu systems. > So you had IP connectivity from Ethernet to Token Ring. That's trivial > to do. The Cisco 2513 would be a very good candidate router to do that. I suspect wherever I saw the term "bridge" used, it was used in the sense of providing IP connectivity from token ring to Ethernet, in the same sense that a physical bridge provides connectivity between two banks of a river. > I think it's also possible to have (Token Ring or Ethernet) network > connected clients telnet to and use the 3174 as a gateway to connect to > ESCON / Bus and Tag machines. Yes, that's what our RS/6000 was doing. It connected via token ring to the 3174 and screen scraped 3270 sessions to move data between its phone menu system and our mainframe. You might find this interesting: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/lan/ZZ78-0355-0_IBM_Token-Ring_Gateways_and_Bridges_Comparisons_and_Recommendations_Nov89.pdf > If the 2513 you have is the one that was used for this, I'd love to see > the config, if it's still on there. I don't have it yet. If I'm able to get it with its config intact, I'll share what I can, minus any company specific details. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: IBM 3174 C 6.4 Microcode Disks?
Jim, On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 11:37:34PM -0600, Jim Stefanik via cctalk wrote: > As for my system, I've got a z800 (a 2066-0A1 to be exact). Nice!! > It's got ESCON, so I've got an Optica converter box of which the model > number escapes me; but it's the replacement/alternative to the IBM Pacer > boxes. That allows bus and tag gear to connect up to ESCON channels. My 3174 was last attached to a z890, 2086-A04, via a similar ESCON converter box. Actually, they might be the same. The name Optica sounds familiar. We have five or six of them under the floor. I haven't pulled them yet, but they're on my list. Since we've downgraded to an AS/400 based platform, the powers that be want "all that old mainframe stuff" out of our computer room. Fortunately I managed to get permission to haul off as much as I can myself before they get recyclers involved. Now if I could only fit a z890 in my minivan. :-) I know, they're not called AS/400s any more. We're on a POWER 8 box, an 8286-41A. But until IBM comes up with a new name that's an improvement over AS/400, we're sticking with that name. Apple was already using the letter i, and giving the platform a single letter name makes searching for online information about the platform a challenge. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: IBM 3174 C 6.4 Microcode Disks?
Jim, On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 10:23:30PM -0600, Jim Stefanik via cctalk wrote: > Simon Systems should be able to get you the microcode diskettes. I think > they charged me around $35 USD when I bought in Nov. 2017. Send them an > email and let them know what you need. Thanks!! I'll check with them. > On a side note, I may need to ping you off list...I've got an 11R and I'm > curious if it can be converted to an 11L, since I'd prefer to channel > attach it to my machine instead of use ethernet. Now I'm curious, as others on the list might also be. What machine do you have with bus and tag channels to connect an 11L to? Unfortunately I know nothing about converting an 11R to an 11L, or if it's even possible. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: IBM 3174 C 6.4 Microcode Disks?
Grant, On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 08:52:25PM -0700, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > Nice haul. I also acquired an RS/6000 7012-340, its 7208 8mm tape drive, and a couple of 9121 voice servers. It used to run DirectTalk/6000. > You mentioned telnet, which largely implies TCP/IP, which in combination > with Token Ring means specific things. Things which I question about > how much of a "bridge" the device was as much as a gateway. I might have the terminology wrong. I not very familiar with the token ring side of things. By the time I got into mainframe operations about twenty years ago we only had a few token ring devices left. The RS/6000 mentioned above was only connected to the token ring side of our network. It connected to the 3174 via token ring to screen scrape emulated 3270 sessions. Before the RS/6000 was shut down, I was able to telnet to it from my PC, which was on the Ethernet side of the network. The router in is the Cisco 2500 series, perhaps a 2513. I found this photo on the net, which looks like the router in question, if I remember correctly: https://kyozoufs.blob.core.windows.net/filestoragetcdb/Pictures/_30/29886/29885389.jpg As for using telnet on the 3174, I'm going by what I've seen posted on Hercules mailing lists about how others have connected real terminals to the Hercules mainframe emulator. A few pictures of such terminals connected to Hercules can be found at: http://CoreStore.org/emuterm.htm The posts I've seen say one either needs a router to act as a token ring to Ethernet bridge, or a PC with both token ring and Ethernet cards in it to act as a bridge. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
IBM 3174 C 6.4 Microcode Disks?
Classic Computer Fans, I posted this to the IBM-Legacy-Hercules mailing list. I just realized it probably wouldn't hurt to post it here too. I'm finally in possession of a box that hopefully is capable or can be made capable of connecting a real terminal to Hercules. It's a 3174 11L. It was retired last year where I work. I finally got the okay to save it from being sent to a scrapper. I love the build quality of older IBM gear, except when I'm trying to move such gear. Between the 3174 and a 9406-520 I also acquired, I pulled or strained something in my left arm moving them into place. It's currently wired to run on 220v. I think I've seen mentioned somewhere that it can be changed to run on 110v. If that's the case, does anyone have a pointer to documentation on what's involved? It has dual floppy drives. At least one drive is a 2.4MB drive. But, all the microcode disks I have are at level B 4.6. Does anyone know where I can get a set of C 6.4 control and control extension disks. From what I've heard those are what's needed to enable an attached terminal to connect to other systems via telnet. It has a token ring card. I will probably be able to get the MAU it was connected to, and possibly the router that acted as a token ring to Ethernet bridge. I'm not sure how much memory it has. Does anyone have any tips on determining the amount of memory it has, and/or identifying its boards? These are the numbers on its boards: 9210 9351 9052 z2 9053 9501 Plus the boards for coax connections. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum. Posted by: Kevin Monceaux Yahoo Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ibm-legacy-hercules/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ibm-legacy-hercules/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: ibm-legacy-hercules-dig...@yahoogroups.com ibm-legacy-hercules-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ibm-legacy-hercules-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to: https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/ -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: MicroVAX I
On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 06:59:06PM +0100, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: > Even though the 730 is also pretty slow, I would love to have one if > anyone in the UK has one going spare I'd love to come across one needing a good home in my neck of the woods some day myself, or even more so an 11/750. An 11/750 was my first exposure to a system larger than a PC. Actually I probably wouldn't say no to any VAX in need of a good home, including a MicroVAX I. -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
