[cctalk] Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

In addition to the Goodyear STARAN computer, another tire company Firestone 
did built some interesting one off systems of unusual design. My first job out 
of college was with Firestone Central Research. While there, I became friends 
with William Clayton who was one of three of their research fellows. He was a 
big proponent of APL and there I was exposed to the MCM/700 (see 
https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/apl/Brochures/MCM700Brochure ) 
and the IBM 5100 desktop APL computer as well as APL via IBM 360 timeshare. We 
used APL to simulate the heat flow and rubber curing in very large earth mover 
tires with finite-element techniques coupled with chemical kinetics.

   However, Bill Clayton most interesting work was around optimizing 
formulations from designed experiment data. He built an analog computer that 
used static card readers that provided contacts to feedback resistors to 
simultaneous compute the output of 16 second order polynomial equations with 
cross terms for 8 independent variables. Each of these 16 polynomials had 54 
static coefficients that were determined from second order statistical 
regressions of data from designed experiments. One equation for example might 
be tensile strength of a rubber compounded with various amounts of sulfur, 
carbon black, oil, accelerators, etc. Then another equation might represent 
wear resistance measured from the same combination of compounding ingredients. 
The 16 equations had upper and lower limits of acceptable values for tensile 
strength, wear, etc. The analog computer would then begin an exhaustive grid 
search of the 8 independent variables to find a combination of the 8 
ingredients that met all 16 of the desired output traits. When a solution was 
found the independent variable value voltages were read by an A/D controlled by 
a PDP-8 and then printed on a console. Thus the system was actually a hybrid 
computer part analog and part digital. I was told that doing the 8 factor grid 
search in Fortran on an IBM 360/168 would have taken 1300 hours but this hybrid 
system did it in 5 minutes, Only three of these systems were ever built, two of 
which were used outside of Firestone (one by the Air Force). 

   U.S. Patent 3,560,725 from 1968 provides some background as it covered an 
early version of the later more highly developed system.

Mark






> From: Paul Koning 
> Subject: [cctalk] Re: C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer 
> Prototype, Dies at 89
> Date: May 23, 2024 at 6:58:06 PM CDT
> To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
> Cc: Kevin Anderson 
> Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a vague memory of visiting the Computer Museum when it was still at 
> DEC, in the Marlboro building (MRO-n).  About the only item I recall is a 
> Goodyear STARAN computer (or piece of one).  I found it rather surprising to 
> have see a computer made by a tire company.  I learned years later that the 
> STARAN is a very unusual architecture, sometimes called a one-bit machine.  
> More precisely, I think it's a derivative of William Shooman's "Orthogonal 
> Computer" vector computer architecture, which was for a while sold by Sanders 
> Associates where he worked.  
> 
>   paul

[cctalk] Re: VCFMW Anybody got an Emulex QD21?

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

Jon,
I have an Emulex QD21 that I could part with. I was hoping to attend VCF MW 
but it looks very doubtful at this point. I also have a spare DEQNA or DELQA. I 
have not tested these boards to verify that they work although I could test the 
ethernet boards on a PDP-11. Hans-Ulrich Hölscher mentioned work he did testing 
MicroVAX II transfers with Lee Gleason’s MicroVAX I project to transfer disk 
images on bare metal (no-OS) MicroVAX systems. I think that would be your best 
bet to recover your ESDI disk. If you don’t have any luck at the VCCF MW 
getting what you need, send me an email and we can work something out.  

Best,
Mark

[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

Chris,
   I would be interested in getting a copy of the SSPS/X software for POS. I 
have a manual for SPSS/11 and would love to  try to get the software running 
under RSX11M+ if possible.

Thanks,
Mark

> On Jul 26, 2023, at 12:00 PM, cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org wrote:
> 
> From: Chris Zach mailto:c...@alembic.crystel.com>>
> Subject: [cctalk] Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
> Date: July 26, 2023 at 9:30:10 AM CDT
> To: CCTalk mailing list mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>>
> Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
> mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>>
> 
> 
> Starting to go through my boxes of POS stuff. I know of course that 3.2 is 
> out there (minus the Pro/Communications option which has a bad disk in the 
> distro) however are these disks out there now?
> 
> Pro/Venix 1.0 on floppies
> POS V2.0a on floppies
> 
> POS version 1.5 (with test diskette, maintenance application, a thing called 
> Pro/Pre labelled "Diskette system", system overview and instruction disks)
> 
> POS V1.7 (I have that here somewhere)
> 
> Pro/Basic Version 1.0 and 1.2
> 
> SPSS/X For Professional (this is a really interesting one, anyone heard of 
> this?)
> 
> If so let me know and I won't copy them. If not I'll go over to the mighty 
> Deskpro/XE and start sucking the data off for archives
> 
> Thanks!
> Chris
> (Hoping to find old drivers or scaffolding or something that will give me a 
> hint into how DEC ported POS)

[cctalk] Re: Saturn-Calc

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

> On Dec 30, 2022, at 12:00 PM, cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> My 11/73 restoration has got to the point that I am loading stuff from RT11 
> backups, and I have a lot of Saturn-calc and wp data that I would like to see 
> again. My licensed copy and the manual are long gone!
> 
> I downloaded some RX02 images posted by Mark Matlock, but the disks appear to 
> be all zeroes where I expect the directory to be.
> 
> Does anybody know of a source?
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Nigel

Nigel,
I’ve been trying to find a working distribution for PDP-11 Saturn-Calc and 
Graph for some years now. I had a licensed copy many years ago for RSX11M but 
it no longer works. I do have a working copy of Saturn-Calc and Graph (but not 
WP) for VMS on my MV3100-80 but not the VMS distribution.

I have managed to contact the lead programmer that developed Saturn’s 
software through a former president of the company. The programmer believes he 
has a copy of the source code for PDP-11 and VAX on a CDROM that is in a 
storage unit. He has retired overseas and come back home where the storage unit 
is a couple times a year and I’m hoping he can find the CDROM on his next trip 
back. I can keep you posted on our progress in trying to recover this software. 
It helps that the programmer is interested in making the Saturn products 
available as it may need to be recompiled or at least relinked to be compatible 
with the newest versions of PDP-11 operating systems with Y2K etc. 

 We thought we had it recovered a couple years ago when nine RX50 floppies 
were found in Australia that were from a distributor that could be used to 
generate new customer distributions, but there was no documentation and some 
info was missing. Also, manuals for the Saturn products have not been scanned 
so we are looking for them as well.

 If you had some specific Saturn Calc spreadsheets that you wanted data 
extracted from, I might be able to help you with my working VMS version of 
Calc. Saturn Calc was a great product that we used a great deal back in the 
day. The Saturn Graph product supported VT340s with the mouse and could 
generate plots a wide variety of HP and other plotters, printers, etc.

Best Regards,
Mark

Re: VT340 Emulation

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

> On Jun 24, 2021, at 11:06 AM, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
> LK201s use 4800 baud UART interfacing.  PC keyboards with DIN connectors 
> (PS-2) have a very different type of interface, nothing like a UART.  If the 
> terminal you are talking about wants a PS-2 keyboard, as my VT501 does, you 
> need a protocol translator.  It would essentially be the reverse of the LK201 
> emulator for PS-2 keyboards I released a while back, and possibly the same 
> board could be used with a rather different program running on it.
> 
>   paul

Paul,
   The VT LAN 40 does use the PS-2 keyboard protocol like the VT501. The main 
board
of the unit is a PC mother board running Windows 3.1 from ROM. It has some 
amount of
non-volatile memory to store session settings.

   It does sound like a protocol translator like you design but in reverse 
would allow the
older more common VT keyboard to be used.

Mark

Re: VT340 Emulation

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

> On Jun 24, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Zane Healy  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> Thanks!  That’s not bad at all considering what VT525’s are going for, and 
> I’d really like to get a terminal with ReGIS Graphics (though I finally have 
> a VAXstation 4000/90 running as a VAXstation).  Mind you, I’m not sure why I 
> need one. 
> 
> I wonder if an LK450-AA keyboard will work, I have a couple with WPS 
> key-caps.  I know those will work on an AlphaStation.  The VTLAN40 page 
> indicates it needs a LK412-AQ for the WPS version of the keyboard, so i’d 
> probably better figure that in the cost.  This makes me wonder, has anyone 
> ever documented what all the different keyboards go to, and how they’re 
> different?
> 
> I’m more awake this morning, and took another look through the webpage, this 
> time on my computer, rather than an iPod.  This looks like the perfect 
> replacement for the VT420 & DECserver 90TL in my Office.  The ReGIS graphics 
> helps to sell it.  Most of the time I simply use SecureCRT on my Mac Pro, but 
> occasionally I need a real DEC keyboard.
> 
> Zane

Zane,
Does the LK450-AA keyboard have a round 6 conductor PS/2 style connector? 
If so I think it would work.
I looked up a pin out for that PS/2 connector and Pin 1 is data, Pin 2 is 
ground, Pin 4 is +5V, and Pin 5 is Clock
with Pins 2 and 6 not used. I suspect that a common cheap PS/2 keyboard would 
also work fine except that
keyboard mapping especially the keypad needed for EDT, KED, etc. might not work 
quite right.

I do think this would make a great replacement for a VT420 and DECserver as 
few terminal emulators do LAT
although Reflection did in the past. My favorite Mac VT terminal editor at the 
moment is ZOC which continues to
get better with each update (although no VT340).

   I’ll send you a .pdf of the user manual for the VT LAN 40 separately that 
will give you a better picture of the unit.

Best,
Mark

  

Re: VT340 Emulation

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

> On Jun 24, 2021, at 1:25 AM, Zane Healy  wrote:
> 
> And all this time I thought that I wanted a VT525!  How much are the 
> VTLAN40’s going for?
> 
> Zane 

Zane,
If you explain to Mitch Miller at Keyways that you are a hobbyist, he will 
sell them for $400,
at least he has in the past. He also has new and used LK411-AA keyboards. The 
last one I
bought was $190 for new. That seems expensive but it has the round connector 
like a PC
used to used for keyboard before USB. It might be possible to make an adapter 
to convert
an old VT420 keyboard to the round connector if one knew how the pin outs for 
each mapped?

  On the SVGA displays, I’ve been using the NEC Accusync LCD 71VM and it works 
well.
As the unit comes it will operate at 800 x 600 256 color, but if you go to the 
Windows 3.1 
settings it can be changed to 1024 x 768 x 16 colors which works better to have 
multiple 
sessions windows open at once.

Mark

Re: VT340 Emulation

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

   One VT340 emulator that works quite well is the VT Lan 40. This was one
of the last terminals made by DEC. It ran Windows 3.1 from ROM and
used the LK411-AA keyboard (with the round PC keyboard connector) 
displaying on a Super VGA LCD display (1024 x 768 x 16 colors)

  It could connect to several (unto 8) systems simultaneously using a 
DB25 serial, a MMJ serial, then over its ethernet connector: multiple LAT, 
CTERM (DECnet) and Telnet (TCP/IP) sessions. The session windows allow 
cut and paste between Windows.

   The VT340 emulation seems to be perfect displaying Regis and pixels 
correctly and handling mouse movements correctly in the VT340 mode. 
Output from Saturn Graph for VMS works great!

  It also displays APL overstrike characters correctly with VAX APL using 
the ^D prefix described in the APL documentation. It also handles some 
escape sequence quirks that RSX KED does that mess up other VT100
emulators.

   Being able to use a Super VGA display allows a small footprint compared to a 
real VT340 (for VCF events) and the fact that it uses a real LK411 keyboard is 
great.

   The only minor issue is that they are not cheap, but you can buy 
new-in-thebox
old inventory at:

http://keyways.com/vtlan40.html

   You’ll also need a VT411-AA keyboard sold separately and find a Super VGA 
LCD display. Fortunately the last item can be cheap. I got a good NEC one at a 
second hand store for $20.

   One final comment, the two VT Lan 40s I got eventually had a connector 
between the front power switch and the actual switch break due to a bad 
choice of plastic by DEC. However, this can easily be repaired with a 1” piece 
of 1/8” I.D. PVC tubing from the hardware store.

 Mark Matlock

Re: SCSI2SD

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

>  wrote:

In this the weakest link would appear to be the SD Card.  As such it seems to 
me that the best solution would be to have 2 or more SCSI2SD?s in the device. 
I?m not sure what benefit would be achieved by using a single board to present 
multiple devices.  Unless of course you had a drive size limitation, or you?re 
trying to emulate something like 2GB or 4GB drives.  As an example, that would 
be handy for VAXen with a 1GB Boot Drive limitation.

-Zane


Zane,
   I am using SCSI2SD cards in a VAXstation 4000/90a, and in a MV3100-80 as 
well as 
an Alpha DS10. 

  In the two VAXes, I use two SCSI2SD cards, configured identically with a 
system drive and a 
user drive on class 10 16GB microSD cards.  So each microSD card has both the 
system drive 
and the user drive.

   Thus I can use VMS backup from one microSD card to another so that if one 
microSD card fails I can 
easily recover from it. So far I have not had hardware failures, but being able 
to recover from a 
bad software installation which has been VERY helpful.

Mark

Re: cctech Digest, Vol 80, Issue 10

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 10:15:34 -0700
> From: Vincent Slyngstad 
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: QBUS/UNIBUS card handles
> Message-ID: <826ef016-3060-e690-de81-820947971...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> On 5/10/2021 9:25 AM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>>> On May 10, 2021, at 7:14 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk  
>>> wrote:
>>> I would assume it would be trivial to do an injection-moulded run of these 
>>> handles...
>> 
>> They might also be ideal for silicone mold / resin cast, for smaller/home 
>> production runs?
> 
> Resin casting will work, but it's messy, etc.  I haven't had any trouble 
> with the toughness of 3D printed handles.  Honestly, I often attach them 
> with a pair of small zip-ties instead of rivets, and they are still 
> plenty strong.  The usual caveats about 3D printing apply -- just don't 
> print it so that the layers will be torn apart when you pull on it!
> 
> Maybe you PDP-11 guys are more used to hex cards, or something?  I did 
> have some PCB made where the card fingers tended to bind, but that's 
> best addressed with some careful filing and a tweak of the CAD files for 
> the next run :-).  (The CAD files on so-much-stuff have long been 
> tweaked for a good fit to the connector blocks.)
> 
>   Vince

Vince,
I recently had Shapeways 3D print some of your card handles in Nylon 12.
They call Nylon 12 “versatile plastic” on their web site and they use a laser 
sintering 
process for fabrication. I used the card handles on my QBone and UniBone boards
which makes them MUCH easier to insert and pull. The Nylon 12 seems to be
quite tough and I used 3mm x 6mm long screws to fasten them. Shapeways
charged $5.00 each plus shipping to make them.

  Thanks for the great 3D design!

Best Regards,
Mark
 

Re: Pro350/"XT" pre-release documents

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 21:27:58 -0400
> From: Chris Zach 
> To: dst...@execulink.com, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
>   Posts" 
> Subject: Re: Pro350/"XT" pre-release documents
> Message-ID: <9f8a2890-d268-bb19-1989-e26364c9c...@alembic.crystel.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> Well, what I have is this:
> 
> SPSS/Pro introductory guide
> (2) SPSS/Pro for DEC professional/350
> SPSS-X User's guide, third edition (Think telephone book)
> 4 disks VOL NAME SPSSPRO1 (to 4)
> 
> 
> Hey, in one of the manuals there is an additional disk SPSS/Pro 
> DEMONSTRATION
> 
> I guess I can copy them on my Pro/380 to other disks, but does anyone 
> have a better way to make a spare copy? They are almost 40 years old at 
> this point...
> 
> Interesting stuff.
> 
> C


Chris,
There was also a SPSS-11 for RSX and your SPSS for Pro/350 would likely be 
a later version. A few years ago I bought the SPSS-11 manual from an Ebay 
seller. It looks like SPSS-11 ran a lot like the IBM OS/360 version in that it 
was feed a file of input and it produced a file of output (like a batch job). 

   The Pro 350 version was likely a bit more interactive and I would be very 
interested in getting a copy of it. As far as the best way to get a copy made, 
it would be great to read them on a M+ system that has TCP/IP or is at least 
connected to HECnet so the disk images could be uploaded somewhere. Also, the 
manuals would be of interest as well. The SPSS-11 manual I have is a relatively 
thin paperback book.

Thanks,
Mark

 

RE: SaturnCalc, Graph, and WP disks uploaded

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

Hi all!
Spent some serious time this evening with the RX02 drives: I managed to 
download the images of the SaturnCalc 3.0, Saturn Graph, and Saturn WP 
software to RX02 images. I think it's set right, can someone take a look 
at the images and see if they are good? Should be RT11 format, RX02 (of 
course), I recorded from both sides of the disks (they're double sided, 
hole punched by the vendor) and are at
https://www.crystel.com/bob
You should see the disks and the meta files.
Let me know if they work, I need to get to bed. Either burn them on real 
RX02's or read them with a SIMH image.
C

Chris,
   I am very interested in Saturn Calc for PDP-11s specifically for RSX.
I downloaded your floppies and will take a look at them soon. You mention
that they are in RT-11 format. Do you know which PDP-11 OS the Saturn
software was for. They had versions also for RT-11, TSX and RSTS. Later
they had native VMS and MSDOS versions.
There are images of RX50s for RSX Saturn Calc, Graph and WPS at 
Malcolm’s web site. 

https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=2570 

   He also gave me some documentation that I have scanned and put up at

http://www.rsx11m.com/SaturnInstall.pdf 


http://www.rsx11m.com/SaturnCalc.pdf 

http://www.rsx11m.com/SaturnCalcRef.pdf 


   Saturn products on the PDP-11 and VMS used their own license key
systems. I do have valid licenses for Calc and Graph for VMS and have
them running on a MV3100-80. It would be great to get the RSX version
running. I used it extensively back in the day and it would be wonderful
to preserve it.

Best,
Mark Matlock

Re: DEC ADV11-D Analog to Digital converter with DMA

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

Paul, Jerry,

   Thanks for the suggestion to take a look at DataTranslation!

Looking in the bitsavers folder for DataTranslation, I found a 239 page 
July 1986 Data  Translation manual for the DT3362 series of A/Ds. There are 23 
sub-models of that board but the DT3362-16SE/8DI specifications matches the 
ADV11-D (A1008).

The best part is that chapter 8 of this manual has 5 programming examples, 
two of which use the DMA capability.With a bit of research (and some luck) I 
think this will give me the info I need.

Thanks again,
Mark
   

Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 02:06:25 -0500
From: Paul Anderson 

I think they were made by Data Translation.

On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 8:00 PM Jerry Weiss via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> 
> I just picked a AAV11-D D/A Board for which documentation is also
> scarce. The general design may be similar.  I should be able to reverse
> engineer the analog/digital output section for pin-outs. Lacking
> manuals/source code, if someone has an existing driver or software in
> binary, I would be willing to disassemble that for its secrets.  Perhaps
> these boards mimic the methods used by ADAC or Data Translation used for
> their Qbus products.  Their documentation may also give some insight on
> how to setup these CSR's.
> 
> Regards,
> Jerry
> 

DEC ADV11-D Analog to Digital converter with DMA

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

   I recently acquired an ADV11-D Qbus A/D board and having been working on a 
RSX11M+ driver for it. It is similar enough to the ADV11-C that the driver I 
wrote for the -C works ok, but the -D is DMA capable.

It seems to have two extra CSR registers in addition to the CSR, and read 
buffer. Does anyone have documentation for this board? It is mentioned in the 
Oct. 88 Microsystems Option Guide and both RSX and VMS supported it. It was 
also mentioned in the Dec 92 Real Time Products Technical manual.

  It has a 40 pin IDC connector that appears to have some amount of differences 
from the ADV11-C and no where have I seen any info on the DMA capability. 

   Does anyone have a ADV11-D user manual or XXDP source code for testing it?

Thanks,
Mark

RE: Odd book

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

> From: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
> Subject: Odd book
> Message-ID: <20200506152915.23ea118c...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
> 
> So, I've come across an odd book that might interest some here: "Achieving
> Accuray: A Legacy of Computers and Missiles", by Marshall William McMurray.
> 
> The first couple of chapters merely re-tell the story of earliest computers
> (pre-elecronic and electronic), up through the IBM 701, Elliott 401, NCR 304,
> SAGE, CDC 6600, IBM 7090, etc. Competent, but nothing special. Then it
> gets interesting, though.
….
> A very unusual and off-beat work.
> 
>  Noel

Noel,
   Thanks for the book recommendation above. I was happy to see that it was 
available in a reasonably priced Kindle version.
One of my favorite computer history books is Stan Augarten's 1984 book, Bit by 
Bit: An Illustrated History of Computers.

I did manage to find a copy and really enjoyed reading it and looking at 
the great photos in it. I was curious to know
a bit more about the author and in “DuckDuckGoing” him I ran across an online 
college course by Haverford University:

http://ds-wordpress.haverford.edu/bitbybit/bit-by-bit-contents/front-matter/table-of-contents/
 


that has the entire text and the photos from Stan Augarten’s book. It is a 
great way to read an otherwise hard to find
book. It also has some .pdfs of the lecture slides from the professors who put 
this great web site together.

Mark

Re: pdp11/84 PMI memory: What is the problem with Q bus?

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

> I actually have -B/-C boards, I should plug one in in QBUS mode, and get my
> QSIC prototype working again (it somehow random failed during the last year,
> and I've been too lazy to debug it), and write a little program to DMA blocks
> in and out, and see what happens to the data. If I get really energetic I
> could throw a 'scope on the bus and look at bus cycles and see if they look
> OK.
> 
> It would be interesting to have some more detail on the failure.
> 
>  Noel

Noel,
   The experiments you describe above would be very interesting! In the 
accidental tests 
I did using -C boards in an 11/83, RSX booted ok and ran for a good bit but I 
think errors
Started to accumulate due to bad DMA writes that either were written to the 
wrong logical block
Or the data written was scrambled. When this happened on my BA23 11/83 I 
scratched my head
Took the boards to a BA123 11/83 and repeated the mistake. Fortunately I use 
two SCSI2SD devices
In each system and leave one identical unit unmounted except during disk to 
disk backups.
With good memory boards I was able to do a disk to disk restore and recover 
everything up to
My last backup. 


> And that might make sense: PMI memory responds to the Q bus just like 
> normal memory. So from a Q bus device perspective it's just boring old 
> memory and thus no speed improvement. What might speed up is if I did 
> memory to memory (VM0:) copies, but with only 2mb running at the moment 
> there's not a lot of time to check for performance differences.

Chris,
   I think the way that you see the biggest performance improvements in PMI 
over Q22 memory
Is when you have heavy asynchronous I/O happening at the same time the CPU is 
compute bound
And the memory access is not well cached due to the type of programs being run. 
This is more
Likely to happen in a busy multi-user environment. RSX has a tool IOX that was 
developed to load a
RSX system and simulate multiple users. The CPU can get at memory via the PMI 
and not be delayed
Waiting on the Q22 bus. This is particularly helpful with larger block mode Q22 
transfers that don’t cause
CPU memory access delays.

Mark
 

Re: pdp11/84 PMI memory: What is the problem with Q bus?

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:17:07 -0400
> From: Chris Zach 
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: pdp11/84 PMI memory: What is the problem with Q bus?
> Message-ID: <27647f0e-19d4-b484-d288-e9f3bb715...@alembic.crystel.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> Thanks Mark! Actually this was just the boards from the 11/84 (no idea 
> what happened to the chassis, drat) so it's an 11/84 CPU (18mhz, FPP 
> chip installed), 2 PMI boards (one old 2mb, one new 1mb) a console board 
> of some sort and the Unibus map.
> 
> I popped this into my BA23 to speed things up a bit in place of my quad 
> height 11/73 CPU with 2mb memory. So far it seems to work, and with the 
> CA memory in the PMI slot managed to boot RSX11M 4.2 and compile up EMPIRE.

Chris,
   I understand now. I also have a PDP-11/83 in a BA123 box and the CPU and 
PMI memory (M8637-E) can move from the Qbus box to the 11/84 box and work fine
In either. I spent a good bit of time tinkering with the 11/84 power supply 
which did not
Work until I put a M7556 minimum load module in it. Basically the +/- 12 Volts 
needs a
Load or you get a hung bus error. Also, with the Unibus you have to pay 
attention to
The NPR/NPG grant jumpers. 

   For disks on the QBus systems I used the UC07 and SCSI2SD. The UC07 can be
 can be configured for block mode transfers and I think it is doing it. I guess 
I’d need
 to hook up a logic analyzer to know for sure.

The 11/84 uses a UniBone and when it is emulating a MSCP disk, it can do 
150 
I/Os a second (using IOX on RSX11M+) The 11/83 using the UC07 and a SCSI2SD
Does about 60 I/Os per second. I think the UC07 could go faster but is limited 
by the
SDcard interface. I need to put a fast real SCSI disk on it sometime and see 
what it can do.

> 
> My guess is the 11/84's Unibus talks directly to the PMI bus and 
> orchestrates the data transfers, but there is something wrong when the 
> PMI memory is accessed on the true Q bus. That would not happen on an 
> 11/84 (CPU and Map use PMI only) but when you have a Q bus DMA device it 
> probably manifests at random. It's possible the MTI card is throttling 
> the DMA to single mode instead of hog mode, wonder if I want to screw up 
> my disk to verify this….

What is the model # for your MTI disk controller?

> 
> Drat. On the positive side it's chock full of 256k chips, which I could 
> pull off and put on the EA board to bring it up to 2mb memory. I have 
> air heat tools and a pre-heater so getting the chips off should be 
> pretty basic. Getting them on the new board though could be a pain since 
> all the holes are soldered over….


   Moving the RAM chips sounds a bit tedious but would certainly be possible. 

> 
> No way to reprogram or fix it I assume?

Are you asking about making the M8637-B or -C into the -D or -E? If so I’ve
 never seen any reference to doing that. I was very fortunate that the person
 Who sold me the M8637-C was willing to trade it for a -E.

 Mark

pdp11/84 PMI memory: What is the problem with Q bus?

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

> 
> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:29:44 -0400
> From: Chris Zach 
> To: CCTalk mailing list 
> Subject: pdp11/84 PMI memory: What is the problem with Q bus?
> Message-ID: <3efa4105-3d3d-bb98-0358-8c46fca0f...@alembic.crystel.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> So I picked up an 11/84 CPU, 3mb of memory, and a 11/84 Unibus card on 
> Ebay. Goal is to speed up my fastest 11 here
> 
> For boot time, the diagnostics run in 13 seconds (from when it starts to 
> prompt) on the 11/73 board I have and 13 seconds on the 11/84 board. 
> This is with a camintonn 2mb half height memory board.
> 
> Put in the first PMI module above the 11/84 CPU and tried it out. This 
> is a CA rev board which apparently only works in a Unibus pdp11 and not 
> a Q-bus one. Apparently it does work.
> 
> So what exactly was the bug with the older PMI memory? Block mode DMA, 
> I'm using an MTI ESDI controller which can do 16 word block DMA on Q 
> Bus. Something else?


Chris,
  Congrats on the PDP-11/84! I also have a PDP-11/84 that uses one of Joerg’s 
Hoppe’s 
UniBone devices to simultaneously emulate MSCP disks, RL02 disks (including the 
RL02 Load/Ready/WriteProtect/ and fault lights) and a DL11.

  I have a question about something you said above, that you are using a MTI 
ESDI disk controller and then you mention Qbus block mode DMA. Are you able to 
use a 
Qbus MTI controller in the 11/84’s Qbus section of the backplane? This is 
something 
I’ve often wondered about but never tried. 

 Also, you mention putting the PMI memory above the 11/84 CPU. In the 11/83 
Qbus backplane this is of course determines whether the M8637 memory is 
accessed via 
Q22 or PMI. In the 11/84 System Maintenance Guide Figure 2-8 shows the 
CPU card above the memory which if you were to do this in the 11/83 would mean 
that the memory will be accessed via Q22 and essentially become an 11/73.
In my 11/83 I have run both configurations to understand and measure the 
benefit of PMI.

  As has been mentioned the 11/84 can use any of the M8637 memory boards but the
11/83 can only use the M8637-D or -E versions. For anyone who is curious about 
what
Happens when a M8637-C version board is used as PMI memory in an 11/83 I can 
speak
From experience. This was running RSX11M+ and it boots fine but after a few 
minutes if
The system is active, the console starts to report that various installed tasks 
are corrupted
And the system will XDT a bit later. After this the disk is corrupted and you 
will need to restore
the system disk from backups after you get the correct PMI memory boards.

  I’m not completely sure how the write DMA operations put bad data through the 
disk controller
(I was using an Emulex UC07 with a SCSI2SD) into the disks but that is what 
happens.

Mark Matlock

RE: pdp11/84 PMI memory: What is the problem with Q bus?

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:29:44 -0400
> From: Chris Zach 
> To: CCTalk mailing list 
> Subject: pdp11/84 PMI memory: What is the problem with Q bus?
> Message-ID: <3efa4105-3d3d-bb98-0358-8c46fca0f...@alembic.crystel.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> So I picked up an 11/84 CPU, 3mb of memory, and a 11/84 Unibus card on 
> Ebay. Goal is to speed up my fastest 11 here
> 
> For boot time, the diagnostics run in 13 seconds (from when it starts to 
> prompt) on the 11/73 board I have and 13 seconds on the 11/84 board. 
> This is with a camintonn 2mb half height memory board.
> 
> Put in the first PMI module above the 11/84 CPU and tried it out. This 
> is a CA rev board which apparently only works in a Unibus pdp11 and not 
> a Q-bus one. Apparently it does work.
> 
> So what exactly was the bug with the older PMI memory? Block mode DMA, 
> I'm using an MTI ESDI controller which can do 16 word block DMA on Q 
> Bus. Something else?


Chris,
   Congrats on the PDP-11/84! I also have a PDP-11/84 that uses one of Joerg’s 
Hoppe’s 
UniBone devices to simultaneously emulate MSCP disks, RL02 disks (including the 
RL02 Load/Ready/WriteProtect/ and fault lights) and a DL11.

   I have a question about something you said above, that you are using a MTI 
ESDI disk controller and then you mention Qbus block mode DMA. Are you able to 
use a 
Qbus MTI controller in the 11/84’s Qbus section of the backplane? This is 
something 
I’ve often wondered about but never tried. 

  Also, you mention putting the PMI memory above the 11/84 CPU. In the 11/83 
Qbus backplane this is of course determines whether the M8637 memory is 
accessed via 
Q22 or PMI. In the 11/84 System Maintenance Guide Figure 2-8 shows the 
CPU card above the memory which if you were to do this in the 11/83 would mean 
that the memory will be accessed via Q22 and essentially become an 11/73.
In my 11/83 I have run both configurations to understand and measure the 
benefit of PMI.

   As has been mentioned the 11/84 can use any of the M8637 memory boards but 
the
11/83 can only use the M8637-D or -E versions. For anyone who is curious about 
what
Happens when a M8637-C version board is used as PMI memory in an 11/83 I can 
speak
From experience. This was running RSX11M+ and it boots fine but after a few 
minutes if
The system is active, the console starts to report that various installed tasks 
are corrupted
And the system will XDT a bit later. After this the disk is corrupted and you 
will need to restore
the system disk from backups after you get the correct PMI memory boards.

   I’m not completely sure how the write DMA operations put bad data through 
the disk controller
(I was using an Emulex UC07 with a SCSI2SD) into the disks but that is what 
happens.

Mark Matlock

APL-11

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

>Problem with that is all the files get jumbled into one directory
>and I am sure the build will want them in the right proj,uid locations
>in order to work.  I am thinking a backup tape may do the job.  SPD's
>seem to say that later versions of RSX and RSTS had compatible BACKUP
>formats.  We'll see.  If that don't work there is always kermit.  :-)

>It must be possible because the installation manual says the
>installation tape works for all four PDP-11 OSes.
Bill,
   I’ve looked extensively to see if I can find the original distribution tape 
image and can’t find it. 
At one point DEC donated the APL-11 to DECUS and I think that is when I got it 
back in 1984 or so. The files I have include the Macro-11 source code which as 
near as I can tell was not on the DEC distribution when it was a layered 
product. I now think that the copy of APL-11 I have must have come from a 
restored backup tape from my old system.
   In the DEC distribution, it was a DOS-11 tape which could be read by all the 
PDP-11 OSes as you say. I just attempted to create a DOS-11 tape similar to the 
DEC distribution, but when I try to run the installation against it I get a 
task build of APL that doesn’t work. It immediately exits and I think is due to 
some differences between the auto overlay code in RSX11M+ V4.6 and the V2.1 M+ 
that I used to have. I added the .MAC files and .CMD files (for assembly, and 
linking) to the tape and make it available at:

http://www.rsx11m.com/apl11.tap 
   Let me know if that works for you. It may build under RSTS fine. 
   A backup plan to make it available is that also on the same web site are two 
disk images for the PiDP-11/70 folks that is a complete RSX11M+ V4.6 ready to 
run under Simh. On the DU1 disk image in [201,50] and [201,200] are all the 
APL-11 files I have. That system also installs a working APL-11 for RSX.
Mark

APL-11

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

>According to the Ref Manual, that's the one I was looking for.
>Now to mount the RL on RSTS and see what it takes to build it
>there.  I'll let the list know how I make out in case someone
>else is interested.
>
>bill
   The RL02 image is RSX Files-11, and I’m not sure if you can mount that with 
RSTS. I could move it to a RT-11 formatted RL02 or if your RSTS system is on 
HECnet I can put it where you could get it that way. I looked for the original 
DOS-11 formatted DEC distribution tape but can’t find it at this time. Let me 
know if you need anything.

Mark

REL APL-11

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 10:58:46 -0400
> From: Bill Gunshannon  >
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
>   mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>>
> Subject: APL-11
> Message-ID:
>   
>   
> >
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> 
> Haven't given up on DIBOL.  May try installing the RT-11 version and
> see if it runs.
> 
> But now another language of interest has reared its ugly head.  :-)
> 
> Anybody have an image of the tape for APL-11?  Manual claims it
> runs on all of the PDP-11 OSes and it is another language from
> my past that I haven't touched (other than to read some programs
> out of curiosity) in more than two decades.

Bill,
I have the APL-11 V2.1 source files on a RL02 disk image. I will make it 
available at http://www.rsx11m.com/apl11.zip 

Once you mount the disk image with Simh, the are two ready to run task 
images that will run under RSX11M or M+
In [201,200]APL6OK.TSK and APL7OK.TSK that are the REAL*4 and REAL*8 versions 
of APL-11. On the disk are the
Original .MAC sources as well as files from a RSX SIG tape that modified APL-11 
for I/D under RSX11M+ that increased
The workspace (.BXWA from ~3 to ~6 bytes). It also contains a character 
set for Vt220 for the APL character set.

   When you install the APL task experiment with the /INC to maximize the 
available workspace, On my system, I can
INS APL6.TSK/INC=37000 to max the workspace for the single precision version.

   Also, the scanned APL-11 reference manual can be downloaded at 
http://www.rsx11m.com/APL-11-Ref-Man.pdf 

 and the APL11 installation guide at http://www.rsx11m.com/APL11ins.pdf 


   The RSX SIG files that have the info to change APL-11 to an I/D RSX11M+ task 
are at [370,360] on the RL02 disk. I remember having this work back in the 
mid-1980s butI have not been able to get it to work today. If I link it with 
ODT it seems to blow up when the first overlay is loaded. If anyone could help 
with that I’d really appreciate it!

Best,
Mark

> 
> I have the source to something called APL-11 for Unix but it is
> not the same thing.  Actually, not even close.  :-)
> 
> Would love to see a few pointers.
> 
> Oh, and in case anyone is curious about my endeavors
> The SIMH system I am  using now is based on the 11/70 and was built
> with only 2M of memory.  Why you would do that under SIMH where there
> is really no memory constraint at all, I can not fathom.  I used to
> have a bunch of 11/44's and that has been my favorite since my original
> 11/24 system died long, long ago./  I am going to configure a SIMH
> System using the 11/44 as my model and then reinstall everything in
> order to have a really good system for playing with this stuff.
> 
> Sure wish there was a way to find some of the third party stuff from
> the sourcebooks.  A lot of nice software that should have been saved
> for historical reasons, if nothing else, has been lost.
> 
> bill

REL APL-11

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

Bill,
   The APL-11 files on DECUS RSX85A are not a complete distribution but a 
modified version that was intended to run under I/D on M+.

I have the APL-11 V2.1 source files on a RL02 disk image. I will make it 
available at http://www.rsx11m.com/apl11.zip

Once you mount the disk image with Simh, the are two ready to run task 
images that will run under RSX11M or M+
In [201,200]APL6OK.TSK and APL7OK.TSK that are the REAL*4 and REAL*8 versions 
of APL-11. On the disk are the
Original .MAC sources as well as files from a RSX SIG tape that modified APL-11 
for I/D under RSX11M+ that increased
The workspace (.BXWA from ~3 to ~6 bytes). It also contains a character 
set for Vt220 for the APL character set.

   When you install the APL task experiment with the /INC to maximize the 
available workspace, On my system, I can
INS APL6.TSK/INC=37000 to max the workspace for the single precision version.

   Also, the scanned APL-11 reference manual can be downloaded at 
http://www.rsx11m.com/APL-11-Ref-Man.pdf
 and the APL11 installation guide at http://www.rsx11m.com/APL11ins.pdf

   The RSX SIG files that have the info to change APL-11 to an I/D RSX11M+ task 
from RSX85A are also at [370,360] on the RL02 disk. I remember having this work 
back in the mid-1980s but I have not been able to get it to work today. If I 
link it with ODT it seems to blow up when the first overlay is loaded. If 
anyone could help with that I’d really appreciate it!

Best,
Mark

Re: Catatonic Rockwell AIM-65

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

Rick,
   I have a Rockwell AIM-65 and back in the day did a lot of laboratory data 
acquisition and other things with them. I interfaced one to an atomic 
absorption graphite furnace  to collect the readings and compute the parts per 
billion of various trace minerals in samples to translate 6 bit ticker tape 
code at 66.67 baud to 9600 baud ascii for a PDP-11/44. I did development on the 
AIM-65 and then transferred the code on EPROMs to Rockwell RM6500 single board 
cards usually. At home I made a ballistic chronometer with some aluminum foil 
and a resistor and my trusty AIM-65.

   The most interesting project was an instrument I designed to measure how 
stable a vegetable oil was to oxidation. The AIM-65 would test 16 samples using 
a wire wrapped relay board to sequence through the signals, an Intersil 7109 12 
bit A/D chip, a conductivity circuit, 32 Kbytes of RAM to hold data for 
plotting and a small 4 inch wide Radio Shack Pen Plotter. We built about five 
of them to use within our company, but had requests from customers for the 
instruments. Eventually, we out licensed the patents to an external company and 
I rewrote the software to run on a IBM PC. Later I rewrote the software in 
LabVIEW and it still runs in many labs where vegetable oils are refined or 
used. The analytical method  for it is called the “Oil Stability Index” and I 
wrote the official method (AOCS Cd12b-92) that defines it. If you search for 
“Oil Stability Index” you’ll find it is widely used in the field. It is also 
sometimes called the Rancimat method after another automated instrument 
introduced later that works in the same way.

  When I do get my AIM-65 out to play, it often is catatonic at first. I’ve 
found that (at least for mine) it is related to the inexpensive IC sockets 
Rockwell used in it. Usually some Deoxit or tuner cleaner on the sockets and 
reseating some ROM chips is all that is needed to get it going. That said you 
certainly could have more complicated issues as well.

Best,
Mark

RE: Raised Floors

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

   The discussion on raised floors in data centers reminded me of an 
interesting past experience. My company had installed its first supervisory 
process control system in an enzyme plant. The plant had been around for quite 
some time and the process control system was part of a retrofit of the 
facility. Part of that retrofit was remodeling a room for the PDP-11/44 and the 
related racks of industrial controllers. There were hundreds of cables carrying 
various analog and digital signals and control signals under the raised floor 
that they installed. 

   The only bad thing about the location of the data center was that it was 
directly under some tanks that were installed on the roof. One tank was for 
concentrated sulfuric acid which was used to adjust pH in the fermenters. That 
acid tank was filled from tanker trucks that would come from time to time. One 
day a trucker who was filling the tank was not paying attention and over filled 
the roof tank and acid overflowed over onto the roof which should have held the 
overflow, but it was a flat roof designed to protect from rain not concentrated 
sulfuric acid. Down in the data center the operator noticed that liquid was 
flowing down the walls of the room and past the raised floor tiles into the 
space below. It was easy to confirm it was acid since it was attacking the 
paint on the wall. The acid pooled under the floor with the cables.

 That was when they called the research chemists next door. We came in and 
determined that there were some drains under the floor (it had been a factory 
room before it was converted) and we suggested that they flush the space under 
the floor with water to dilute the acid to get as much of it out as possible. 
Then they used fans to try to dry out the room and the space under the floor.

 After all this, miraculously everything seemed ok, but about once every 6 
weeks or so that PDP-11/44 would develop some issue and the DEC field service 
guy (it was under contract) would come out and swap a board or two, marveling 
at how he had never seen boards that were so corroded. In retrospect I’m amazed 
that 11/44 survived as well as it did.

Mark

Re: Yes there is a PDP 10 front panel and Kenbak on Ebay

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

Subject: Re: Yes there is a PDP 10 front panel and Kenbak on Ebay

> > From: Guy Dunphy
>
> > What I want to know is, how do front panels of historic computers so
> > often get separated from the rest of the computer?
>

   The other thing that happened on PDP-11/70s was that if your system
was maintained by DEC, the field service group would want to install
the KY11-RE Remote Serial Console Control which replaced the beautiful
front panel with a more or less blank panel with only a key switch. It
let DEC dial in and run diagnostics, and the Blinkin' Light panel was
set aside often in the collection of someone. However the blank panel
still needs the bezel for a good display of it. So unfortunately,
there are more console panels than bezels which often did not get
salvaged at the time the PDP-11/70 was taken out of service.

Mark M.

Re: VT100s

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

   One terminal system I haven’t seen mentioned is the VT LAN40. I bought one 
new in the box about a year ago from Keyways ($400) and have found it to be 
very useful although it is not contemporary with most of the DEC systems we 
discuss.

  It needs a flat screen monitor, but can have multiple windows that allow cut 
and paste between between serial ports and it can talk LAT, CTERM, Telnet on 
its ethernet port. It has a mouse and does a great VT340 emulation. The unit can
Mounted vertically and take very little bench space, but as has been mentioned 
before the keyboard is a typical VT420 sized keyboard.

  It has a history buffer so has many of the advantages of a good software 
emulator but is very accurate in the emulation. It gives me a single screen and 
keyboard that I can use to simultaneously work with my RSX11M+ (via LAT), the 
RT-11 MINC via serial and the two VAXes and any RPi’s running linux.

  The CPU is a little slow but response is acceptable. The ROMs in it might 
have bit a good starting point for reverse engineering.

   I think Keyways has a number of them and believe he will sell to hobbyists 
at the lower price above.

I found this description at https://vt100.net/dec/vt_history

VT LAN40
In February 1995, Digital announced the VT LAN40, a colour windowing network 
terminal. This device was a diskless PC, containing Windows 3.1 in ROM, and 
supporting up to eight terminal sessions over LAT, DECnet, TCP/IP or serial 
line, using TD/SMP. The system box and mouse had a suggested list price of 
$890. It connected to standard PC keyboards and monitors.

Mark

PDP-11/84 Qbus slots for memory

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

   The PDP-11/84 uses the M8190 CPU that is also used in a PDP-11/83. The 11/83 
and 11/84 use PMI
Memory but the 11/83 also can use Q22 memory. With the 11/83 the position of 
the memory board (assuming
one is using the MSV11-JD or JE) above the CPU uses PMI and below the CPU in 
the backplane uses 
Q22. In the 11/84 the CPU is above the MSV11-JE memory but the CPU only uses 
PMI to talk to memory.
diagrams in the Unibus processor handbook indicate that the M8191 Unibus map 
board only communicates
through the PMI bus to both memory and to the CPU.

   Now my question is, there are 3 Bus slots in the 11/84 above the Unibus map 
board, would it be possible
to put a dual width Q22 I/O board in the second memory slot (not the PMI side 
of the slot) and have it
able to DMA into the MSV11-JE? 

   If so then something like an Emulex UC07 and a SCSI2SD card could make a 
cost effective disk solution, 
since Unibus SCSI controllers are so expensive.

Mark

RE: AIM 65 Cassette Test Program

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

Bill,
   I’m not familiar with the program they mention for the AIM65, but in Section 
9
of the User’s manual on bitsavers is a good description of how to set up 
cassette
recorders with the AIM65. If the recorder has a pause input the AIM65 can
control the tape both during read and write. If two cassette tapes were 
available
It could read assembly source code from one and write object to the other. (When
the computer came with 1K Ram expandable to 4K you did stuff like that.

On page 9-13 they do have two short test programs “SYN Write” and “SYN Read” 
that can be used to adjust record and playback volume as well as the VR1 pot
on the AIM.

If they are just looking for ways to save and load programs the best way was to 
utilize 
Teletype interface that is described on page 9-26. The described interface is 
for the
current loop that ASR33’s had but that is pretty easy to change to RS232 with 
some
external chips. With that interface 240 characters per second could be read or 
written.
If you upgraded the RAM a bit with an external board the AIM was quite a nice 
6502 
development tool. I built a number of things with it.

1. Instrument to measure the stability of vegetable oils. (See “Oil Stability 
Index”)
This analytical method is still used today but with more modern systems. It used
a ICL7109 12 bit A/D, 16 relays, a pen plotter, and a home built conductivity 
circuit
with 32KB Ram with software burned to 2532 EPROMs. We wrote the source
on a PDP-11/24 and loaded it into the AIM65 for local assembly and store to RAM.
We used 2K Byte battery backed up RAM (MK48Z02B-25) on the AIM till debugged
then burned an EPROM.

2. A data acquisition system for a Perkin Elmer AA / Graphite Furnace.

3. A converter to change 66.67 baud 6 bit ticker tape code to 9600 baud ASCII.
(see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticker_tape 
 ) Believe or not there was one
commodity exchange still transmitting their data in this format in the 1980s and
Our PDP-11/44’s DZ11 interface could do 50,75,110 and higher baud but could read
this data. This used a 6522 to generate 16 times the 66.67 baud and was fed to 
a UART to read it. 64 byte program, and 64 byte look-up table. 

4. A remote monitor that provided video output, and RS232 data recording from
9 digital temperature meters. The meters were read by counting their clock
pulses during the down slope of the dual slope meter allowing each meter
to be read with three wires (Ground, Clock, Gate) that were switched with 74150
Chips.

So I have found memories of the AIM65 and the last time I had it set up about 2 
years ago it still ran fine.

Mark



Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2018 11:27:36 -0400
From: Bill Degnan 
To: cctech 
Subject: AIM 65 Cassette Test Program

Hi all...I got the following through my web site.  Does anyone have a good
known-working test program for an AIM 65 cassette that I can attempt and or
send in response?  I still have to set mine up and attempt to reproduce,
but someone here likely has more experience, it has been at least 5 years
since I powered mine on.  Also, the article this guy references from MICRO
April 1979 volume 11 is not present in my copy of MICRO, he may be mistaken
in his reference.  I don't know what cassette program he is referencing.  I
do know that the cassette test program that comes in the Rockwell AIM 65
manual is in error, but I don't have the corrections.  I also know that one
needs the correct (optional otherwise) power lines when using cassette.
Bill
VintageComputer.net Inquiry -
I am one of the founders of the Computer Museum in Basel (CMBB/CMGB).
We have 2 AIM 65 units that seem functional. However, we're
experiencing problems with the cassette drive when trying to read back.
We tried to record using cassette recorders and also a modern PC
through line in and the audio signals are clearly recognizable
(from pin M). A connection to pin L and using the corrected program
to test readback from "micro_11_apr_1979_text_syn_read_program_AIM65.pdf"
only displays the "N" on either AIM 65 system. The cassette interface
potentiometers are sealed in one of the units by the manufacturer and
have never been changed as far as we can tell. Is there anything we
could try to get reading from tape to work? We are running our of
ideas. Is there any way to visualize the incoming signal through a
small program other than the one from the magazine?

Scanned paperback book "RSX A User's Guide"

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

   I recently decided to make scan a paperback book that I happen to have two 
copies of. It is "RSX A Guide for Users by John Pieper” published in 1987 by 
DEC. I have not seen a copy of it in any of the online sources like bit savers. 
For anyone just starting out with RSX it is a nice general read that also 
covers some system topics like backups, etc. similar to the paper back VAX/VMS 
user and system manager books.

   I’d like to make it available online but wasn’t sure how to submit it. It is 
about 38 MB in size so bigger than an email (at my email).

  Since I didn’t have an industrial book shear to remove the binding, I used a 
belt sander to remove enough go the binding to pull the pages free easily and 
then used a paper cutter to trim the pages a bit to remove any last traces of 
glue that would have jammed the scanner. The book is about 360 pages.

Thanks,
Mark Matlock

Re: ADV11-A vs. ADV11-C and 22-bit Bus

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

Jerry, Noel,

Thanks for your feedback. Also, Noel was correct on the typos I made on 
DD1, DE1, and DF1. I was copying from a scanned .pdf and some strange OCR 
translation was occurring and I missed correcting those.

Yesterday I stuck the ADV11-A in a MINC-23 with 256 KB memory and verified 
that it worked. The CSR is different than a MNCAD and the voltage range bits 
may be different, but when I connected a 40 pin cable and a IDE to screw 
terminal connector on the I could match up the +4.5 and -4.5 reference voltage 
signals with the diagram with the screw terminals and then make voltage changes 
on channel 0 and see the A/D counts change.

  Today, I cut the BDAL18 BC1 trace to ground, verified it still worked in the 
MINC, then moved it to a PDP-11/73 RSX11M+ system I use for hardware testing. 
The RSX system was not configured for this card and the default 400 vector 
conflicts (I think) with the bottom of kernel stack so I’ll need to either move 
the vector switches on the card down or re-sysgen this test RSX system. Thus, 
the only quick testing I could do is via the CSR. 

   Also, to make it easy to see values change I used the 2 digit LED display 
next to the console port to display the least significant bits of the readings. 
This is a technique I use to debug interrupt routines as you can write a 2 
digit octal number with a simple MOV.

I didn’t loop on the status bit because RSX is multiuser/tasking, but just 
used a 1 second mark time to assure the conversion was done. This would be 
changed to an interrupt service routine once I fix the vector issue. Using the 
LED display made the test code very simple:

.TITLE ADTST
.ENABL LC
.IDENT /280118/

; TKB commands: IDLE/PR:5/-FP=IDLE
.MCALL EXIT$S MRKT$S WTSE$S

LEDCSR = 177524
ADCSR  = 170400
ADBUF  = 170402

.even

LEDS:   MOV #17,R0
MOV #100,R1 ; COUNT
10$:MOV R0,@#LEDCSR ; Display inverted contents of R0
CLR @#ADCSR ; Clear A/D status register
INC @#ADCSR ; START A/D
MRKT$S  #1,#1,#2; Set Mark Time for 1 sec on eflg #1
WTSE$S  #1  ; Wait for eflg #1
MOV @#ADBUF,R0  ; Get A/D value
BIS #177700,R0  ; Set all bits high but lower 100
;   DEC R0  ; this line counts to 77 octal on display
SOB R1,10$
MOV #17,@#LEDCSR; Reset LEDs to .
EXIT$S
.ENDLEDS

  So Noel and Jerry, you are correct it is that simple. If the A/D was DMA, 
that would be another situation (like the RX02 controller).

Best Regards,
Mark 
 

ADV11-A vs. ADV11-C and 22-bit Bus

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

   I have an ADV11-A that I would like to use in a Q22 RSX11M+ system. The 
ADV11-C will work in a 22-bit Bus system from what I understand but the ADV11-A 
was made for 18 bit Bus systems. In the OEM Micronote book, Note 5, it states:

Any device which uses backplane pins BC1, BD1, BEl, BF1 or DC1, 001, DEl, 
OF!, for purposes other than BDAL18-21 is electrically incompatible with the 
22-bit bus and may not be used without modification. 


   Further down it lists the ADV11-A as a device that does not meet the 
requirements for a Qbus 22-bit system because:
ADV11 (A012).   A/D Converter. (Use of BC1 for purposes other than 
BDAL18)

   When I look at the Board connector B pin C side 1 (component side) the BC1 
pin is tied to ground. Several other pins are also tied to ground on that 
connector such as BC2, BJ1, and BT1. Other than BC1 which is BDAL18 being tied 
to ground the pins BDAL19 (BD1), BDAL20 (BE1), And BDAL21 (BF1) are all not 
connected to anything. This also matches the field engineering print for 
ADV11-A (B-TC-ADBV11-A-1) where BC1 is shown tied to ground on page 21.

   So it looks like if I simply cut the trace between the BC1 finger and its 
connection to ground on the board it would become Q22 compatible.

Is it that simple?


Thanks,

Mark Matlock

   

Looking for PDP-11 DECUS software 110590 MINC-11 Data Acquisition Package for RSX-11M

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

   I’m looking for information on MINC-11 systems, particularly documentation 
on the CSR bit functions for
the MNCKW and MNCAD modules. Recently, Fred Jan Kraan added a great deal of 
information to his excellent 
web site on MINC-11 including the 8 MINC user manuals which to date did not 
exist on the internet. 


 http://electrickery.xs4all.nl/comp/minc/doc/

Thanks Fred Jan Kraan and Kees Stravers!

  One thing I am looking for now is a DECUS package 110590 A description of it 
is below taken from
a page that Tim Shoppa put on bitsavers. I have found some mostly RT-11 DEUS 
packages and of
course all of the RSX-11M & M+ semi-annual SIG Tapes are available, but I can’t 
find quite a number
of these DECUS packages that never made it to a SIG tape.

Does any one have this?

Thanks!
Mark Matlock

110590 MINC-11 Data Acquisition Package for RSX-11M  Version: July
1983
Submitted by: Walter E. Wahnsiedler, Aluminum Company of America,
Alcoa Center, PA
Operating System: MINC, RSX-11M V4.0  Source Language: FORTRAN-77
Memory Required: 54KB  Hardware Required: In submitted form, MINC
analog-digital modules (MNCAD MNCAM). Can be readily modified to other
A-D's.  Keywords: Conversions - Analog/Digital, Graphics, MINC/RSX-11
Software
Abstract: This package consists of three FORTRAN programs and related files 
which implement a flexible data
acquisition algorithm for RSX-11M based systems. The analog-to-digital 
converter handling is set up to use
MINC-series modules (MNCAD, MNCAM), but the code dealing with actual 
analog-to-digital conversion is collected in
one subroutine to make modifications to other hardware easy. During the data 
acquisition process, the user is
provided with a live terminal keyboard which can be used to modify any of the 
following data collection
parameters. Accessible parameters are the disk storage file name, assigned A-D 
channel numbers, preamplifier
settings (MNCAG), collection rate, total time to collect, scale factors, and 
storage suppression
threshold. The user can also start and stop data collection sequences from his 
terminal and force the
collection of one or more individual data points at any time.
While data is being collected, the user may also "disconnect" his terminal from 
the data collection
process, allowing it to be used for other purposes. Data may be written out 
numerically on the user's terminal as
it is taken, or returned via system messages to a customized program for 
graphic display. An example of
such a customized graphic program is included for VT105 and VT125 terminals. Up 
to three user terminals may be
simultaneously "connected" to the data acquisition process, and each may 
display the data numerically,
graphically, or both, and each may be used to modify the data collection 
process in any way. A "profile" of
default parameters is kept for each user, to alleviate the necessity of 
entering repetitive information each
time the programs are run.

Media (Service Charge Code): One RX01 Diskette (KA)  Format: FILES-11,
600' Magnetic Tape (MA)  Format: FILES-11

RE: BBS software for the PDP 11

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

As for power, if you  have a wife and/or kids, a PDP-11's power
> consumption is not even above the noise floor in your electric bill.
> (Unless your trying to do it with RA disks!!)
> 
> bill

Out of curiosity how much power do these wee beasties consume?
___
The plate on the back of my 11/93 says 345 Watts.  That's about a fifth what 
your
wifes hair dryer draws.  Or slightly more than 3 100 watt light bulbs (which 
your
kids leave on all over the house all the time!!)
bill

I run a similar PDP-11/83 system 24/7 on a BA23 in a Pedestal stand. It has two 
2MB memory boards, an Emulex UC07 connected to two SCSI2SD Cards emulating two 
RD54s and two RA92s, and a DELQA-T running RSX11M+, DECnet and Johnny 
Billquist;s TCP/IP and it draws 100-105 watts on my UPS. 

I also run a Simh PDP-11 on a Raspberry Pi 3 as an adjacent node and it is much 
faster, much quieter, but not quite as much fun.

Mark Matlock