[cctalk] Re: MS-DOS source code

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

It's historically interesting, plus it might help the FreeDOS folks plug
some compatibility holes since they can now legally look at the old code to
see how it does things.

Mike

On Thu, May 2, 2024, 9:53 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 5/2/2024 9:27 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote:
> > On Thu, 2 May 2024, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:
> >
> >> Some may find this interesting.  Microsoft has released the source for
> >> MS-DOS versions 1.25, 2, and 4.
> >>
> >> https://github.com/microsoft/MS-DOS
> >>
> >
> > I think the most interesting thing about this is that they published it
> > under an actual open source license (MIT) and not that nonsense that was
> > used when they released 1.25 and 2.0 through the CHM years ago.
> >
>
> All kind of meaningless as we have had an Open Source DOS equivalent
> for 3 decades already.
>
> bill
>
>

[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

The museum had been one of Paul Allen's private passion projects. Sadly, he
died rather unexpectedly and he hadn't really had time to set up a proper
legal entity to protect it after his death, so it and all his other passion
projects ended up controlled by his wife's real estate company which
started looking at ways of shutting them down almost immediately. COVID
gave them the perfect excuse, sadly.

Mike

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 1:16 PM Royce Taft via cctalk 
wrote:

> That’s really disappointing to hear. I only discovered that museum for
> myself via their website a couple of years ago and had no idea that it
> closed. I had planned on visiting next time my wife and I travel to
> Seattle.
>
> I hope that they are able to reopen.
>
> Royce
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 30, 2022, at 09:22, Michael Brutman via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > My apologies if this topic is a sore point for some of you.  Their
> abrupt
> > closing wasn't that long ago.
> >
> > Does anybody have any insight on what is going on there?  The web site
> has
> > not been updated in about 2.5 years.  The world seems to be moving on; it
> > would be nice to know if we're ever going to see the museum re-open, and
> in
> > what capacity.
> >
> > I realize the people are gone and scattered and it's never going to be
> the
> > same experience if it re-opens.  But there are plenty of us who still
> > believe in the need for such a place, and starting from scratch would be
> > difficult.
> >
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> > (Off-list replies are welcomed if that makes the discussion easier ...)
>

Re: A Personal Milestone (Data General Emulation)

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

Very cool. Maybe this will cause some of the documentation and software
that have been locked away in various private archives to finally shake
loose!

Mike

On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 4:46 PM Stephen Merrony via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I hope hope you don't mind me sharing a little personal milestone: today
> my long-winded attempt at a Data General AOS/VS emulator ran an original
> third-party program successfully for the first time.
>
> There are actually two closely-coupled emulators, one that attempts to
> emulate MV class hardware, and another that tries to provide a virtual
> AOS/VS environment.
>
> Due to the frustrating lack of freely available documentation and
> software for these machines which ceased production in the mid-1990s, I
> am now focusing on the AOS/VS emulator.
>
> Oh, the program that ran was OTHELLO, from the NADGUG (North American
> Data General User Group) games collection.  I lost the game :-/
>
> If anyone is interested, the emulator status is here:
> https://github.com/SMerrony/dgemua/blob/main/STATUS.md
>
> Steve
>
>

Re: What happened to control-data.info and controlfreaks.org?

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

I was able to find and archive the CYBIS kit, plus the associated
documentation, as well as binaries and source code for a version of DtCyber
that seem to be from January 2017. I actually have a web server that I
don't use for much, so I'll probably upload it there, as well as pushing
stuff to archive.org.

Mike

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 10:09 PM Andrew Warkentin via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 11/18/21, Michael Kerpan via cctalk  wrote:
> > What happened? Looking back at my emails, the list was operating normally
> > until September 3. Then it just stopped. There were normal discussions
> > going on. There was no flood of spam. As far as I can tell, nothing
> occured
> > that would trigger a rage quit.
> >
> > Is the software and documentation that was on the site at least archived
> > elsewhere? Has anybody downloaded it and can maybe upload to archive.org
> ?
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
> I downloaded some of the software and documentation from there a long
> time ago and still have it, although I didn't actually scrape the
> entire site. I can upload what I've got to archive.org.
>
> The disk image kit of NOS 2.8.7 with CYBIS has been mirrored at
> <https://codex.sjzoppi.com/doku.php?id=utilities:start> and most of
> the documentation for it is available from the Wayback Machine at
> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20210421202420/http://www.control-data.info/CybisRelease.html
> >
>

The precarious state of classic software and hardware preservation

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

The recent discussion of the sudden disappearance of DtCyber and the
various classic CDC software to run on it from the Internet has got me
thinking about just how precarious so much of computer history is in. So
much of what's out there online (and in person) today is at risk just
vanishing if whoever maintains the archive either loses interest (lots of
projects over the years succumb to this) , or rage quits (see the
expungement of DtCyber and Controlfreaks from the internet), or ends up
dying without having made proper arrangements (See the sad fate of the
Living Computer Museum, which was killed by its new owners as soon as COVID
gave them an excuse to do so)

What are we, as a community, to do to fix this and make sure that our
history stays peserved and isn't one bad day away from vanishing.

Mike

Re: What happened to control-data.info and controlfreaks.org?

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

Why would legal counsel tell him to take the site down? That makes no sense.

Mike

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 9:24 AM James B DiGriz via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 07:23:40 -0600
> Daniel Seagraves via cctalk  wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:53 AM, Jim Carpenter via cctalk
> > >  wrote:
> > >
> > > Is anybody able to access these sites? I just get redirected to
> > > Google.
> > >
> > > Jim
> >
> > Quite simply, Tom got mad, took his ball, and went home. It is my
> > understanding that everything has been deleted and won’t be restored.
> >
> >
>
> Maybe. I'm thinking it's possible he's acting on advice of legal
> counsel, and the sites will be restored at some point. We'll see.
>
> Thanks, Tom, for DtCyber, GPL'ing it,  and for making the sites
> available as long as you did.
>
> jbdigriz
>

Re: What happened to control-data.info and controlfreaks.org?

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

What happened? Looking back at my emails, the list was operating normally
until September 3. Then it just stopped. There were normal discussions
going on. There was no flood of spam. As far as I can tell, nothing occured
that would trigger a rage quit.

Is the software and documentation that was on the site at least archived
elsewhere? Has anybody downloaded it and can maybe upload to archive.org?

Mike

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 8:23 AM Daniel Seagraves via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> > On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:53 AM, Jim Carpenter via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Is anybody able to access these sites? I just get redirected to Google.
> >
> > Jim
>
> Quite simply, Tom got mad, took his ball, and went home. It is my
> understanding that everything has been deleted and won’t be restored.
>
>
>

Re: VT340 Emulation

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

Grab the sources from https://invisible-island.net/xterm/ and build
it. Documentation is lacking,but you should be able to find out what
options are needed to enable ReGIS and Sixel graphics by running
"./configure --help"

Mike

On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 1:47 PM Douglas Taylor  wrote:
>
> On 6/18/2021 8:49 PM, Michael Kerpan wrote:
>
> IIRC, Xterm has ReGIS and Sixel support in it's code these days, but most 
> Linux distro disable those features in their prepackaged builds for some 
> reason.
>
>
> Really?  I'm interested.  How do you build your own xterm?
>
> Doug
>
>
> Mike
>
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 3:50 PM Douglas Taylor via cctech 
>  wrote:
>>
>> Right, according to the few notes I've seen on the packages currently
>> for sale on ebay.
>>
>> I hesitate to buy because I picked up a similar piece of software,
>> Smarterm 240, which seemed to do the desired emulation.  It was old
>> software for DOS, but I have an old DOS machine I use for PUTR I thought
>> I could install it on and be up and running.  It didn't turn out that
>> way because Smarterm wanted a particular video card and driver (which I
>> didn't have, of course).  I didn't find that out until I got the package
>> open and tried installing it.
>>
>> I don't know if the Reflection software has any restrictions like that.
>> The versions I see for sale are for Win3.1 and such, not exactly the
>> heyday of plug and play.  I was hoping to get some guidance from someone
>> who has used the Reflection software on what the actual
>> hardware/software requirements are.
>>
>> On a side note, emulating a Tektronix 4010 is apparently free and high
>> quality (see github).  It is the DEC graphics terminals that no one has
>> produced an open source emulation software for, so that's why I am
>> asking this question.
>> Doug
>>
>> On 6/18/2021 1:16 PM, Bill Degnan wrote:
>> > Reflection 4 should do that, right?
>> > Bill
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 1:15 PM Douglas Taylor via cctech
>> > mailto:cct...@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Does anyone have experience with the Reflection software that will
>> > emulate a DEC VT340 color graphics terminal?
>> >
>>
>

Re: VT340 Emulation

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

IIRC, Xterm has ReGIS and Sixel support in it's code these days, but most
Linux distro disable those features in their prepackaged builds for
some reason.

Mike

On Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 3:50 PM Douglas Taylor via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Right, according to the few notes I've seen on the packages currently
> for sale on ebay.
>
> I hesitate to buy because I picked up a similar piece of software,
> Smarterm 240, which seemed to do the desired emulation.  It was old
> software for DOS, but I have an old DOS machine I use for PUTR I thought
> I could install it on and be up and running.  It didn't turn out that
> way because Smarterm wanted a particular video card and driver (which I
> didn't have, of course).  I didn't find that out until I got the package
> open and tried installing it.
>
> I don't know if the Reflection software has any restrictions like that.
> The versions I see for sale are for Win3.1 and such, not exactly the
> heyday of plug and play.  I was hoping to get some guidance from someone
> who has used the Reflection software on what the actual
> hardware/software requirements are.
>
> On a side note, emulating a Tektronix 4010 is apparently free and high
> quality (see github).  It is the DEC graphics terminals that no one has
> produced an open source emulation software for, so that's why I am
> asking this question.
> Doug
>
> On 6/18/2021 1:16 PM, Bill Degnan wrote:
> > Reflection 4 should do that, right?
> > Bill
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 1:15 PM Douglas Taylor via cctech
> > mailto:cct...@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have experience with the Reflection software that will
> > emulate a DEC VT340 color graphics terminal?
> >
>
>

Re: Lisa Source Code

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

So what happened to cancel the release? Did Apple get cold feet and
withdraw permission? Was there simply more work and less time than expected?

Mike

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021, 2:45 PM Al Kossow via cctalk 
wrote:

> On 4/6/21 11:00 AM, John Many Jars via cctalk wrote:
> > Anyone know if this actually happened?
>
> It has not
>

Re: Exploring early GUIs

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

Well, CD images are available on the Web for both IRIX 5.3 and 6.5.
Various manuals, including installation guides seem to be available at
http://irix7.com/techpubs.html

As long as you have a CD drive (which you would have needed to install
Linux), you should be good to go, though certain bits and pieces like
the compilers probably need license keys to work properly.

Mike

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 3:46 AM John Many Jars via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> I have an SGI Indy that some idiot (tm) (okay, it was me) put Linux on.
>
> Anyone have any way to undo my mistake? (:  I'd like to get the thing
> running properly again, if it even still powers up.  I imagine the HD is
> probably knackered by now anyway.
>
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 at 20:30, Ray Jewhurst via cctalk 
> wrote:
>
> > Also available on MAME is HP VUE on the 9000/360 and 370 and not a super
> > early GUI but quite breathtaking is Irix on the SGI Indy. Directions to set
> > up both are all over the web.
> >
> > Ray
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 2:23 PM jacob--- via cctalk 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 17 Sep 2020, Michael Kerpan via cctalk wrote:
> > >
> > > > Something in another recent thread about LISP machines got me
> > wondering:
> > > > how many early graphical systems are well emulated (or emulated at
> > all)?
> > > I
> > > > know that there are more or less functional emulations of Alto, Star,
> > and
> > > > Lisa out there, but what about the various LISP machines or the early
> > > > workstations (Sun 68K, Apollo, etc) Also, assuming that there are
> > > emulators
> > > > for some of these systems out there, has any software to run on them
> > and
> > > > been archived?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > >
> > > Mame can emulate the Apollo Domain machines,
> > > https://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/Driver:Apollo
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jacob Dahl Pind | telefisk.org | fidonet 2:230/38.8
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems:  "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
> Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
>
> 
> "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
> that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift

Exploring early GUIs

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

Something in another recent thread about LISP machines got me wondering:
how many early graphical systems are well emulated (or emulated at all)? I
know that there are more or less functional emulations of Alto, Star, and
Lisa out there, but what about the various LISP machines or the early
workstations (Sun 68K, Apollo, etc) Also, assuming that there are emulators
for some of these systems out there, has any software to run on them and
been archived?

Mike

Re: CMU Andrew system (and wm) preservation

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

AFS is also cool, but it's a separate project that's still actively
maintained and (presumably) used. The Andrew UI stuff is more firmly in the
realm of computer history. Honestly, I'm surprised that it didn't get more
traction early on Linux, given that it was included in some of the more
influential early distros and it included a more complete set of apps than
anything else that you could get for free at the time. That said, it's also
a shame that IBM wouldn't allow the native window manager to be released
like the rest of the system. It probably would have been a better fit for
PC hardware of the early to mid 90s than X11...

Mike

On Mon, Sep 7, 2020, 5:26 PM Zane Healy  wrote:

>
>
> > On Sep 7, 2020, at 2:04 PM, Don Stalkowski via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon Sep  7 15:29:51 2020 cctalk@classiccmp.org (Michael Kerpan via
> cctalk) wrote:
> >>
> >> Has anybody even been able to get the X-based version to build? I
> remember
> >> finding it on some Unix/Linux source code CD-ROM like 20 years ago,
> >> thinking it sounded useful and cool, and trying to build it on whatever
> >> Linux I was using on my hand-me-down 486 back in 1999/2000. Even back
> then,
> >> it didn't build for me.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >
> > The version that came with Yggdrasil Linux back in 1993 included
> > binaries ans source. That distro had 0.99.13 kernel, gcc-2.4.5, and
> > XFree86-1.2. So, it did build at one time.
>
> I want to say that it was included with SLS as well in ’92/93.  Really the
> main thing I remember about CMU Andrew was AFS.  I had to work with that
> from late ’96, until I think 2005.
>
> Zane
>
>
>

Re: CMU Andrew system (and wm) preservation

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

Has anybody even been able to get the X-based version to build? I remember
finding it on some Unix/Linux source code CD-ROM like 20 years ago,
thinking it sounded useful and cool, and trying to build it on whatever
Linux I was using on my hand-me-down 486 back in 1999/2000. Even back then,
it didn't build for me.

Mike

On Mon, Sep 7, 2020, 2:44 PM Chris Hanson via cctalk 
wrote:

> On Sep 7, 2020, at 6:24 AM, dst...@execulink.com wrote:
> >
> > The description I have for AUIS (6.3.1) is:
> >
> > "AUIS (Andrew User Interface System) - compound document
> > environment offering a word processor, mail/bulletin board
> > reader/writer, drawing editor, spreadsheet, font editor,
> > application builder, and many other facilities"
> >
> > Again, an application, not a windowing system per se.
>
> Yes, the Andrew environment implemented proper layering, so ATK was made
> to work atop X and the applications (messages, ez, console, typescript,
> etc.) came along.
>
> At Carnegie Mellon in the early 1990s, you could (with only a little work,
> to use a console rather than graphical login) use either X or wm on some of
> the campus workstations. On a DECstation 3100 running Ultrix, if you
> weren’t going to run any X applications wm was *much* more responsive. I
> wasn’t around when the clusters had Sun-3 or IBM RT hardware but I can
> imagine the differences there were even more pronounced. (With wm, a
> DECstation felt as much faster than a Mac II as it actually was…)
>
> Applications built against ATK could run atop either wm or X; I don’t know
> if there were distinct builds of ATK or if the conditional logic was in the
> framework itself, but the applications themselves worked just fine with
> either since Andrew implemented a shared library mechanism. (Yes, even on
> Ultrix.)
>
> The publicly-released Andrew distributions don’t include the wm code, only
> the X version. I don’t know if they’ll actually build against the wm
> headers and libraries if they’re present, or if by the time CMU was
> releasing them publicly they had stripped that code out entirely.
>
>   — Chris
>
>
>

Re: OpenVMS Community License

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

In practical terms, I suspect that running VMS on a VAX (real or emulated)
will end up a lot like running DEC's PDP-11 software. Not technically
legal, but also not a practical problem, because the people who own the
rights simply don't care and aren't going to waste their time and resources
hunting down a bunch of nerds running obsolete software on ancient hardware
or some simulation thereof. If they DID decide that they cared, they'd be
within their right to go nuclear, but the odds of that happening are
exceedingly low.

Mike

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 7/29/20 10:07 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:
> > On 29/07/2020 14:19, Paul Koning wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Jul 29, 2020, at 4:28 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ...
> >>> For those of you with hobbyist licence PAKs, I presume that pakgen.c
> >>> will work on all versions that VSI doesn't support. I know it's
> >>> frowned on but it's not really different to running PDP-11 software
> >>> is it (as that is/was generally not licenced).
> >> Not licensed?  What about the Mentec hobbyist license?  That's pretty
> >> broad and clear.
> >>
> >> paul
> >>
> > All I can find is one on the IA:
> >
> >
> >
> https://web.archive.org/web/20110629021938/https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mader/delta/download/license.txt
> >
> >
> >
> > That covers SIMH rather than real HW (afaict). If there's another one,
> > that's good.
> >
>
>
> It also only covered SIMH until Bob Supnik left DEC.
>
> "MENTEC grants to CUSTOMER a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free
> license under MENTEC's INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS to use and copy
> the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY solely for personal, non-commercial uses in
> conjunction with the EMULATOR."
>
> Note that EMULATOR is highlighted with capitalization.
>
> " EMULATOR shall mean software owned by Digital Equipment Corporation
> that emulates the operation of a PDP-11 processor and allows PDP-11
> programs and operating systems to run on non-PDP-11 systems. "
>
> Here it is defined.  "owned by Digital Equipment Corporation".
> That condition ceased to exist when Bob left DEC and DEC allowed
> him to take SIMH with him.
>
> This is plain English.  One does not need to be a lawyer to see
> what it actually says.  They were very explicit in their wording.
>
> bill
>

Re: OpenVMS Community License

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

This leaves those of us using VAX emulation high and dry, still. HP was
unwilling to let VSE offer VAX licenses. Are there any good free/cheap
Alpha emulations that are at least as functional as SIMH is for VAX stuff?
That may be the way forward, at least until the x86 version ships. Do any
of these newer things still run VAX binaries? There's a bunch of old games
like old-school VMS Moria and BOSS (a science fiction game in the
Rogue/Moria tradition) that I'd like to me able to keep playing.

Mike

On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 10:17 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 7/28/20 10:15 AM, Michael Kerpan via cctalk wrote:
> > Is that the right link? The video I saw was talking about setting up
> > failover in clusters.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 10:04 AM Lee Courtney via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >> FYI...new VMS community license.
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ2n2RlNVtw
>
> Link worked for me.  I have applied for my License.
>
> bill
>
>

Re: OpenVMS Community License

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

Is that the right link? The video I saw was talking about setting up
failover in clusters.

Mike

On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 10:04 AM Lee Courtney via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> FYI...new VMS community license.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ2n2RlNVtw
>
> --
> Lee Courtney
>

Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

This thread has been truly enlightening. I had no idea that UniSys had
hobbyist versions of both their Univac and Burroughs stuff available. I'll
have to give them both a try. Is there any software out there for them or
is the general idea that you're supposed to write your own?

Mike

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

Indeed. This looks bad. Hopefully they can pull a rabbit out of their hat
and figure out how to reopen, but I'm not holding my breath.

Mike

On Wed, May 27, 2020, 6:26 PM Lee Courtney via cctalk 
wrote:

> "In the coming weeks we’ll follow up with information about ticket,
> membership and donation refunds."
>
> The "membership and donation refunds." bothers me the most, especially with
> Paul Allen no longer on the scene.
>
> If LCM were to cease operations permanently that would be a disaster, as
> there is no institution that performs the preservation, restoration, and
> hands-on public education function as well as them. :-(
>
> Lee C.
>
> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:53 PM Guy Sotomayor via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they were
> > suspending operations.  It wasn't clear from the email what that
> > actually means.
> >
> > TTFN - Guy
> >
> >
>
> --
> Lee Courtney
> +1-650-704-3934 cell
>

Re: Prime 50-Series emulator announcement

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

Great news. I look forward to trying it out. Other than compilers, is there
much else to run on Prime at the moment? Do any applications still exist to
try and run? Is Prime Information (apparently the platform's "killer app")
available? Are there any games? Was there the equivalent of a DECUS or
Usenix through which freeware speed across the community?

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020, 11:41 AM Dennis Boone via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I'm reposting this announcement from Jim Wilcoxson.
>
> De
>
> 
>
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 08:34:13 -0700 (PDT)
> Message-ID: <0c560b91-35d2-4dcc-b859-a8eb4d22b...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Prime emulator source released on GitHub
> From: Jim Wilcoxson 
>
> Today, with much help from Dennis Boone, I'm releasing the Prime
> emulator source code on GitHub for non-commercial use.  This is the full
> version of the emulator running on Linux and supports:
>
> - all Prime CPU modes: 16S, 32S, 32R, 64R, 64V, 32I
> - all Prime models, from the P400 to P6550
> - up to 512MB of memory, depending on the Primos rev and CPU
> - a system console
> - 128 incoming telnet terminal connections
> - 8 disk controllers, 8 drives each
> - support for all 25 disk drives sold by Prime
> - a tape controller, 4 drives, using the .TAP format
> - a PNC controller emulating RingNet over TCP/IP
> - a bypass for Primos system serial number checks
> - Unix utilities to read/write physical tapes & Magsav tapes
>
> Dennis owns the emulator GitHub repo and has also kindly agreed to take
> over hosting of the public Prime emulators that have been online since
> 2008.  There are 7 public emulators running in a virtual Prime ring,
> allowing both remote terminal sessions (netlink) and remote disk access
> via PrimeNet.  The Prime emulator on Linux is currently running 45-55
> Prime MIPS in 64V mode.
>
> A wide range of Prime software is loaded on the public emulators:
>
> - ftn screaming fast Prime Fortran 66 compiler, written in assembler
> - f77 the not-so-screaming but full-featured Fortran '77
> - pl1g the PL/I Subset G compiler
> - pl1 the full PL/I compiler
> - plp the original Prime systems language (like PL/I)
> - spl the 2nd generation Prime systems language
> - cc the C compiler written by Garth Conby of Pacer Software
> - pascal the Pascal compiler
> - modula Wirth's successor to Pascal
> - dbg Prime's source level debugger rivaling modern debuggers
> - pma the Prime assembler
> - basicv the Prime BASIC compiler
> - cobol the original Prime COBOL compiler
> - cbl the Prime COBOL '74 compiler
> - emacs the full screen editor still used by many today (me!)
> - midas the Prime indexed sequential file software
>
> This week we are working on releasing Prime disk images for all of the
> public emulators to make it easy for others to get their own Prime up
> and running.  For the truly adventurous who want to bootstrap their own
> Prime system, there are links in the emulator readme to Prime tape
> images at Bitsavers and to a large library of Prime manuals.
>
> I learned more about operating systems, compilers, concurrency, and
> other systems programming topics by reading Prime source code, making
> changes to Primos, and fiddling with Prime hardware, than I did from all
> of my college degree work.  I loved Prime computers, Prime software,
> Prime hardware, and the Prime Computer company, and am grateful to all
> of the former Prime engineers that provided this robust and interesting
> hardware and software platform.
>
> I hope you enjoy it too!   https://github.com/prirun
>
> Jim
>

Re: HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

The PDP-11 and VAX versions of BSD have been freely available for years. As
soon as V7 and 32V were declared open source, that meant that everybody had
a valid Unix source license and were therefore eligible to download the
BSDs. IIRC, Novell or Lucent or whoever owns the copyright these days also
released whatever bits of V8-V10 could be dug up under a hobbyist license,
but unlike V7 and earlier, it's not actually open source. I'd love to see
System V similarly made available, but frankly BSD has more toys to play
with anyway.

Mike

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020, 8:06 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 3/11/20 6:26 PM, Katherine Barto wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On Mar 11, 2020, at 3:18 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
> >> mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 3/11/20 3:59 PM, James B DiGriz via cctalk wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2020 08:08:43 -0700
> >>> Al Kossow via cctalk  >>> > wrote:
> 
>  Release of Classic HP3000 died for the same reason from the same
>  company.
> 
> >>> After HP bought TI's DSG lines, TI SysV was eventually turned over to a
> >>> 3rd party, who has so far been unresponsive to my
> >>> inquiries about possible hobbyist licensing, either binary or source.
> >>> Evidently S1500's may still in use somewhere, unless I'm just the wrong
> >>> person asking, or the maintainer simply no longer has the time, having
> >>> moved on to newer platforms. In which case, why not a FOSS release? I
> >>> understand it's his baby, but still...
> >>> Oh, well, I guess there's always the Linux port I was working on off
> and
> >>> on. Hate to have to reinvent the DNIO stuff when I don't even have the
> >>> binaries, but there you go.
> >>
> >> I assume SysV means Unix SysV.  Unless there has been a change
> >> I have not heard about nothing newer than V7 has been released
> >> for use by the holders of the Unix IP.  I have a copy of that
> >> somewhere.
> >>
> >> bill
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Unix newer than V7 is available at https://www.tuhs.org
> >
> > Including System III, 32V, and BSD ports up to and including 4.4
>
> The last time I wanted access to anything newer than V7 I had
> to provide a copy of an original AT Unix license.  I haven't
> looked lately.
>
> bill
>
>
>

Re: HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

IIRC, System III is not really "legal", as it was never re-licensed with a
BSD style license the way earlier editions were. Of course, the important
thing was the open source release of V7 and 32V, as that allowed the
various BSDs to be made freely available. 4.3BSD has much more in the way
of goodies than System III (or even System V) in any event.

Mike

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020, 6:26 PM Katherine Barto via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> > On Mar 11, 2020, at 3:18 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 3/11/20 3:59 PM, James B DiGriz via cctalk wrote:
> >> On Wed, 11 Mar 2020 08:08:43 -0700
> >> Al Kossow via cctalk  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Release of Classic HP3000 died for the same reason from the same
> >>> company.
> >>>
> >> After HP bought TI's DSG lines, TI SysV was eventually turned over to a
> >> 3rd party, who has so far been unresponsive to my
> >> inquiries about possible hobbyist licensing, either binary or source.
> >> Evidently S1500's may still in use somewhere, unless I'm just the wrong
> >> person asking, or the maintainer simply no longer has the time, having
> >> moved on to newer platforms. In which case, why not a FOSS release? I
> >> understand it's his baby, but still...
> >> Oh, well, I guess there's always the Linux port I was working on off and
> >> on. Hate to have to reinvent the DNIO stuff when I don't even have the
> >> binaries, but there you go.
> >
> > I assume SysV means Unix SysV.  Unless there has been a change
> > I have not heard about nothing newer than V7 has been released
> > for use by the holders of the Unix IP.  I have a copy of that
> > somewhere.
> >
> > bill
> >
> >
>
> Unix newer than V7 is available at https://www.tuhs.org <
> https://www.tuhs.org/>
>
> Including System III, 32V, and BSD ports up to and including 4.4
>
> David
>
>

Re: HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

Well that's sad news. Since VMS Software may or may not ever launch a
proper hobbyist program and has stated that they don't have the ability to
issue licenses for VAX versions of VMS, that means we have until 2021 to
legally use VMS on the vintage hardware or emulations. After that, I guess
we will have to either sail the seven seas or learn to love 4.3BSD...

Mike

On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 6:33 AM John H. Reinhardt via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> For those interested, HPE has finally, formally announced the end of their
> participation in the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program.  A number of people have
> received the below message from HPE, probably everyone they have on record
> as having current Hobbyist licenses.
>
>
> If you have any current or future ( at least before the end of 2021 )
> interest in Hobbyist licenses for any version of OpenVMS from 5.0 through
> 8.4 for VAX ( only up to 7.3) or Alpha and Itanium, then register now.  HPE
> is looking to find out how many are interested in Hobbyist offerings and
> even though the new license will be good through 2021, I don't expect them
> to be generating them past the end of 2020 and maybe sooner.
>
> Register for Hobbyist PAKs at one of the following (I suggest the HPE
> address first):
>
> https://www.hpe.com/h41268/live/index_e.aspx?qid=24548
>
> http://plato.ccsscorp.com/hobbyist_registration.php
> Note the underscore between hobbyist and registration in
> hobbyist_registration.
>
> One Hobbyist user reports this:
>
>
> I’ve just received an update from the OpenVMS Customer lab:
>
> Here’s the message from the OpenVMS team.  The idea was that hobbyists
> would visit the site and renew their licenses, and in response, we would
> provide the final set of licenses,
>
> explaining the scenario:
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>As we approach the end of the HPE OpenVMS V8.4 standard support
> period, HPE
>
>plans to conclude the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program.
>
>The HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist licenses we are issuing in 2020 will be
> the last set.
>
>Subsequently, HPE will not issue new HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist licenses.
> Attached
>
>is the final set of the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist licenses. These final
> licenses
>
>are valid through December 31st, 2021. We hope that this additional
> validity
>
>period will enable users to plan for the future.
>
>Users who wish to avail of HPE OpenVMS long term licenses are
> encouraged to
>
>purchase permanent licenses at standard prices. You may contact
> [Fellman, Jon]
>
>mailto:jon.fell...@hpe.com>> for the same.
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
> Cheers, Wiz!!
>
>
> John H. Reinhardt
>
>
> *From:*owner-hec...@update.uu.se [mailto:owner-hec...@update.uu.se] *On
> Behalf Of *David Moylan
> *Sent:* Saturday, 7 March 2020 4:14 PM
> *To:* hec...@update.uu.se
> *Subject:* [HECnet] HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist license program is closing
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just received the e-mail below. I’ve hunted around all the various
> Hobbyist locations and licensing pages and can’t find any additional
> information.
>
> I’ve already replied back to ask what the impact of Hobbyist renewal
> licensing will be. I have no further information at this stage.
>
> Have others received this as well? Does anyone have any further knowledge
> on this?
>
> I can see a few people have forwarded/posted the same message on
> comp.os.vms.
>
> Cheers, Wiz!!
>
> *From:*OpenVMS Customer Lab [mailto:openvmscustomer...@hpe.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, 7 March 2020 3:13 PM
> *Cc:* OpenVMS Customer Lab
> *Subject:* OpenVMS Hobbyist Notification
>
> Dear HPE OpenVMS hobbyist,
>
> This is to inform you that HPE is concluding the HPE OpenVMS Hobbyist
> license program in alignment with the HPE OpenVMS support roadmap.
>
> If you wish to understand more details, please reach out to us at the
> earliest through the usual license renewal webpage.
>
> Thank you.
>
> HPE OpenVMS team
>
>