Re: About to dump a bunch of Compaq SCSI disk caddies (and disks)

[TeoZ via cctalk]

If the auction had the option for best offer and the seller took an offer 
the listing will show it sold at the listed price and not the actual price.


-Original Message- 
From: Jon Elson via cctalk

Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2020 2:07 PM
To: John-Paul Stewart ; gene...@ezwind.net ; discuss...@ezwind.net:On-Topic 
and Off-Topic Posts

Subject: Re: About to dump a bunch of Compaq SCSI disk caddies (and disks)

On 07/07/2020 09:10 PM, John-Paul Stewart via cctalk wrote:


That is true if things are actually selling.  But from what I've seen
(and why I agree with the earlier comment about ebay often being
overpriced) is that sellers list stuff at overly inflated prices and
then let it sit there unsold.



Yes, to know the truth, you have to use advanced search, and
select SOLD items only.
Then, you can see what items actually sold for what value.
LOTS of items have red prices, meaning they did NOT sell,
but closed without bids or closed below the reserve price.
A green price means it did sell at that price.

Jon


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Re: Living Computer Museum

[TeoZ via cctalk]

All this shows me is that in principal people will pick the extreme ends of 
a topic to fight about but in reality once you get into specifics and 
details most people are really in the middle and tend to agree on what 
should be done (in most cases).


You can argue to the point of violence if a glass of water is half empty or 
half full but everybody will agree there is water in the cup (and then argue 
over the definition of a cup).


People are funny.

-Original Message- 
From: Rob Jarratt via cctalk

Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 11:57 AM
To: 'Daniel Seagraves' ; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: Living Computer Museum




-Original Message-
From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Daniel Seagraves
via cctalk
Sent: 29 May 2020 14:04
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 


Subject: Re: Living Computer Museum

I’ve been just kinda skimming along in this thread, I’ve been busy; Just 
wanna

make sure I have everything down...

0: If you sent anything to a museum, you’ve been fleeced - you’re an 
idiot.
1: If you didn’t send anything to a museum, you’re a hoarder - you’re an 
idiot.
2: If you send things to a museum they will be destroyed, museums are full 
of

idiots.
3: If you send things to a museum they will be taken care of, museums keep 
out

the idiots.
4: Museums are for physical display only and a proper museum will 
prioritize

long-term physical stability at the cost of operational capability.
5: Museums are for physical interaction only and a proper museum will
prioritize operational capability at the cost of long-term physical 
stability.

6: If you start or join an ongoing internet slapfight, you’re an asshole.
7: If you avoid starting or joining an ongoing internet slapfight, you’re 
a

coward.
10: I’m not an idiot, you’re an idiot.
11: No, I’m not an idiot, YOU’RE an idiot!
12: For having read this far, I am the biggest idiot of all.

Sound good?=


I was thinking pretty much the same thing and I think it just shows how 
futile some threads are, although I am sure that wherever you stand on the 
arguments above, everyone will agree that the loss of the LCM is a major 
blow. 



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Re: Living Computer Museum

[TeoZ via cctalk]

They would have to when items can be worth millions each and are one of a 
kind.


-Original Message- 
From: William Donzelli via cctalk

Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 1:31 PM
To: Paul Koning ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Living Computer Museum

Loans are standard practice in art museums, from other museums as well as 
from private collections.  Perhaps not so much in science/technology 
museums.


Art museums work under a different set of rules and ethics than other 
museums.


--
Will 



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Re: Living Computer Museum

[TeoZ via cctalk]

They probably don't know.

Anytime somebody with $20B dies it will take years to sort out the estate 
because of taxes and people lining up for money due (legit or not). Any 
charities set up before he passed probably have to live off of what money 
they had on hand before his passing for a few years until the tax guys sign 
off on where the rest of his assets go. And since most of his wealth was in 
things (companies, buildings, stocks, art, etc.) when the taxes are decided 
on things have to be sold to pay for that.



-Original Message- 
From: Guy Sotomayor via cctalk

Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 5:52 PM
To: Paul Koning via cctalk
Subject: Living Computer Museum

I just received an email from the Living Computer Museum that they were
suspending operations.  It wasn't clear from the email what that
actually means.

TTFN - Guy 



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Re: 5 1/4 diskettes available

[TeoZ via cctalk]

At least shipping is cheap.

Never seen a 4 pack before. I still have tons of green 5.25" DD disks I 
picked up bulk when I got into 8 bit computers in the early 2000's. 
Duplicators were dumping them so cheap back then, wish I would have snagged 
more of the 3.5" DD back then.


TZ


-Original Message- 
From: Guy Dunphy via cctalk

Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2019 7:21 PM
To: Jason T ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: 5 1/4 diskettes available

At 03:47 PM 11/07/2019 -0500, you wrote:

On 7/10/19 11:32 AM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:

> https://www.bgmicro.com/4-pack-of-5-25-floppy-diskettes-with-sleeves.aspx

They have hub rings, so they are probably 360K


Weren't these 89 cents when this was first posted?  Well they're $1.89 now.
You're altering the market!


So they are! Oops. Sorry!
Maybe they had a rush of orders, and it's not entirely my fault?
Or maybe the 89c price was a typo, and my order alerted them?

They confirmed my order. Fingers crossed they actually ship them, and it 
doesn't
turn into an argument about honoring transactions. Though probably, a higher 
postage
cost would be fair. 88 floppies and covers will weigh a bit. (Should have 
bought 100.)


4 Pack of 5.25" Floppy Diskettes with Sleeves
COM1147   22   $0.89$19.58
Subtotal:   $19.58
Shipping & Handling: $6.95
Tax: $0.00
Order Total:$26.53

That's an easily altered market. I am a lovely butterfly, fear my flapping 
wings!


Guy 



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Re: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR

[TeoZ via cctalk]

I have not seen any half dollars in circulation in some time. They are just 
too big to fit in people skinny jeans these days.


-Original Message- 
From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk

Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 3:18 PM
To: Fred Cisin via cctalk
Subject: Re: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an 
IBM 5100 using OCR


On 6/28/19 9:57 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

I saw this half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what
it was for.


The big failure of the Susan B. Anthony coin was that it was about the
same size (slightly different shape) as a quarter-dollar coin, causing
people to mistake them as such on occasion.

It was *extremely* unpopular.

FWIW, I just checked my "loose change" container that sits atop my
bedroom dresser.  There were two Kennedy half-dollars--one from 1968 and
the other from 1983.  I suspect that a great many are still in
circulation.

--Chuck


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Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[TeoZ via cctalk]

Those are ATAPI to SCSI.

-Original Message- 
From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk 
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 3:38 PM 
To: Rico Pajarola via cctalk 
Subject: Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try? 


FWIW, there are a couple of Addonics AEC7722 adapters (SCSI-to-IDE)
selling for $50-70 on eBay.   Don't know a thing about them, though.

--Chuck

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Re: Kemners Surplus - Real time walkthrough

[TeoZ via cctalk]

Simple databases were also a killer app. I still recall a small stamp/coin 
shop firing up a C64 to look for inventory in the early/mid 80's.


I hated using a typewriter for school reports so when I purchased a C64 in 
the 80's I used that for reports. The only thing an electronic word 
processor had over a C64 was a very nice display (monochrome) compared to a 
TV for the C64. I forget if the printers on those things were dot matrix or 
actual characters.


-Original Message- 
From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 6:11 PM
To: CCtalk
Subject: Re: Kemners Surplus - Real time walkthrough


I can remember sitting in discussions about "killer apps" (they may have
not been called that), but word processing, spreadsheet and the basic
accounting (AP, AR, GL, Payroll and Inventory) suite were essentially
the way you sold a business computer.

--Chuck 



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Re: Kemners Surplus - Real time walkthrough

[TeoZ via cctalk]

I passed on mint complete word processors at a recyclers ages ago because I 
had no use for them. I almost picked up a huge IBM typewriter but changed my 
mind.
Everybody has limited space so we try not to fill it with things way outside 
of our normal collecting. If anything I regret not grabbing some terminals 
when I had the chance.


I guess if you are in the business of reading old word processing floppies 
with proprietary formats then snagging a few machines might be worth it.


-Original Message- 
From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 12:23 PM
To: Bill Degnan via cctalk
Subject: Re: Kemners Surplus - Real time walkthrough

On 2/18/19 8:10 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

Of the items in

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4Q8Jx7n36fmVczLN8

This photo depicts a Raytheon VT302, I did not see the keyboard in the
photo, hoping it is not lost:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN-btB2yizsHBmabHb7xtHr_zUWZlS6QENHMHbb-beU6Jf4oNqEABuPoVWamYFUtg/photo/AF1QipOzaTLOK_RE9-qpb9i-3_qcoRrQXL7idfoAHsk?key=MmhXdXRtVkhoZkNGODBleGFNeGYza2xvV1BkbjV3

...but I can say this is apparently a very rare or historic computer, not
many known to exist other than this one (unless the one I once owned found
its way to this surplus shop, I know don't remember who bought it from me,
but it was in this same general geographic location and may have found its
way here eventually.  So, someone might want to grab it.



I probably have at least one sample of a Lexitron floppy in my stash; I
don't think they were particularly rare back in the day.  The problem
today is that nobody (or almost nobody) collects old word processors,
due to their limited application and appeal.

As an example, where I worked in 1977, we had at least two Artec word
processing systems.  Basically Diablo Hitypes hooked to large
floor-standing units with 8" diskette drives and using a one-line LCD
mounted on the Hitype.

After the IBM PC and similar machines debuted, the word processor market
collapsed quickly.  Artec was purchased by Pitney-Bowes and merged into
Dictaphone, another acquisition.  By 1983, P-B had abandoned the WP
business entirely.

How many people have heard of, much less collect, smart typewriters made
by Exxon Qyx, for example.  Or old Harris/Lanier word processors?

--Chuck 



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Re: IT books available

[TeoZ via cctalk]

I think you need to recheck the shipping estimate.

-Original Message- 
From: Donald via cctalk

Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 3:30 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: IT books available

Listed these on eBay a few times. No takers.



Being offered here for the price of USPS Media Mail cost. Total of 52 lbs of
books in 2 boxes.  I estimate shipping at $137.



Price will be actual shipping cost payable by PayPal.



See books at  http://www.myimagecollection.com/ITBooks/



Slides pause for 5 seconds each or you can click the Pause button.



No pressure but they hit the trashcan 12/14/2018.  J



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Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal

[TeoZ via cctalk]

Anybody else notice that all the buyers for that keyboard on ebay are under 
10 feedback?


The only Digital keyboards I have are a pair of LK411-AA that go with my 
VT-525's. The recycler kept a stack of VT-525s for a while but the stack of 
LK411 that went with them got their cords cut and chucked into the plastic 
pile the day after they arrived (luckily I snagged a pair before then).


I have a small hoard of IBM model M's purchased from a recycler years ago 
for a few bucks each. I use one on my main rig (has PS/2 adapter connected 
to a Belkin SOHO 4 port KVM), same setup in the basement. I would dig though 
the incoming pallets looking for the IBM keyboards and passing on the 
Unicomp ones.  Used to use a Northgate Omnikey 102 but the layout difference 
between the Model M (which I used in multiple places) made me retire it. My 
other Northgate is connected to an Amiga 2000.


My first use of a terminal keyboard was in college (IBM terminals connected 
to a mainframe for Fortran programming) and I loved those keyboards. They 
are kind of hard to find locally (I do have an IBM 1390702 missing a PF 
keycap and its cable plus a small chunk on plastic in the rear) and a shitty 
Unicomp model DCI0952 that is complete with a PS/2 cable.


I think you need to pay a decent amount of money for a good clicky USB 
keyboard these days (most like a gamer style keyboard). Everything else is 
kind of mushy cheap crap. So I can see somebody who does a lot of typing 
wanting a vintage keyboard with a good feel to it. Since I have enough Model 
M's to last a lifetime I don't see paying $150+ for a new keyboard.


Not that many people need a terminal these days, so the terminal either gets 
trashed or at least somebody saves the keyboard. I know collectors will 
bitch about that but what can you do? A $1000 keyboard will make a scrappers 
year, same keyboard connected to a CRT screen might get $100 and be a pain 
to ship.


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk

Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 4:54 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal


On 10/19/18 1:18 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote:
On Oct 19, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk 
 wrote:


Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting
separated


Keyboard fetishists are vermin; They are destructive and have no redeeming 
qualities, and should be treated as such.


I had one of them spend the better part of an hour going on about how I 
had achieved “the holy grail of collecting” by having more than one “Space 
Cadet” keyboard, fawning about how superlatively perfect they’re supposed 
to be and everything else pales in comparison. They’re a status symbol in 
keyboard fetishist circles. According to him they auction north of $5000 
for even non-working examples. I have no idea why. GNU Emacs can't use 
most of the “special” keys - The Lisp Machine itself doesn't even use most 
of them - and control is in the same relative place as modern keyboards 
instead of being where the caps lock key is which was the "mostest 
hacker-est” thing last I heard. I think it’s just conspicuous 
consumption - Having one proves you’ve got the dosh to waste things other 
people must work hard for a chance to get.



So, are you telling me I shouldn't have thrown out all those

old keyboards whether they worked or not?  All I have now

are a lot of DEC keyboards/


bill



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Re: Cleaning out again

[TeoZ via cctalk]

Those are for Tsengs Labs Ultrapak monochrome ISA video cards I think.

https://isite.tw/2016/08/20/16790/3


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 8:58 PM 
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Cleaning out again 




Anybody interested in a pair of Tseng Labs ULTRARAM boards?

I assume they were expansions for the Tseng Labs Video Cards

but, if nothing else, they are loading with 4164's.


bill



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Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?

[TeoZ via cctalk]

What kind of media is it DVD+R or DVD-R?  I think DVD-R (Pioneer) came first 
and all the original DVD burners support it and it is the most reliable if 
you are making movies for older DVD players. DVD+R is a Sony and Phillips 
design and the recording format is different.


The last generation of DVD recorders is +/- but anything IDE would probably 
be DVD-R only and might have issues reading + disks.


-Original Message- 
From: Ali via cctalk

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:55 PM
To: 'Fred Cisin' ; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?


Does anybody here have experience with "M-Disc"?

It is available up to 100GB BDXL!
Drives start at less than $100; media is prices vary - the 100GB starts
at
about $20 each, but the low capacity versions are bordering on
competitive.


Fred,

I have used M-Disc to archive photos and digital media. So far so good.
Problem is you need an M-Disc drive to read it for sure - what does that
mean? Well the disc is supposed to be compatible across all DVD readers BUT
I have found my older Lite-On IDE drives, which were considered very good
back in the day, have had problems reading the DVDs. So your mileage may
vary...

Also of note the original company has gone bankrupt and their assets bought
out. The new owners are continuing to produce M-Disc media.

-Ali 



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Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?

[TeoZ via cctalk]

The last generation 5.25" 4.x GB MO drive was unreliable which is why they 
never went bigger I think. I have a bunch of 5.25" drives from a few makers 
and all work.


-Original Message- 
From: Carlo Pisani via cctalk

Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2018 5:43 PM
To: Chuck Guzis ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?

thus, MO drive units are not reliable?

2018-07-21 23:34 GMT+02:00 Chuck Guzis via cctalk :

On 07/21/2018 02:12 PM, TeoZ via cctalk wrote:


I have old IBM MO Worm disks that are still readable, same with all my
MO disks (3.5" 130MB, 5.25" 1.3GB) but drives can be iffy. I would bet
that MO media will outlast us all while finding a drive to read them
will be a problem.


I've got a few old PMC Apex 4GB disks.  I suspect that finding a working
drive will be most difficult.  Heaven knows, mine died years ago.

--Chuck




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Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?

[TeoZ via cctalk]

I had a home CDR back when they were over $1000+ new. The media turned out 
to be very reliable (and I have a bunch with gold, blue, green dye) and it 
still readable as long as you didn't scratch the optical reflective layer. I 
also used a laser printed paper cover which probably kept air out. I think 
the media had better quality control when a single CDR was $8 a pop then 
with a spool that costs $20. DVD recordable media was error prone if you 
used DL disks. I only used CDRW media for short term moving of files so I 
don't know how well they do long term. I have a BDXL Blueray drive I barely 
use since anything I need to get at is either online on my server of offline 
on a tape of some kind (LTO mostly but some DAT and AIT as well).


I have old IBM MO Worm disks that are still readable, same with all my MO 
disks (3.5" 130MB, 5.25" 1.3GB) but drives can be iffy. I would bet that MO 
media will outlast us all while finding a drive to read them will be a 
problem.


-Original Message- 
From: Carlo Pisani via cctalk

Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2018 11:14 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?

hi
yesterday I was shocked by a couple of videos on Youtube where guys
pointed out their negative experiences with CD ROM and DVD RAM as
media for their own backup.

They complained their data completely lost after 5 years of storage in
CD ROMs, pointing out that their CDs were perfectly conserved and kept
clean without scratches, but all the data is gone lost since the media
is unreadable.

This is what they said in the video.

I have a lot of backup here stored in CDs, and I have recently bought
an SCSI DVDRAM unit to create new backups in caddies DVD-RAMs (of
4.2Gbyte each)

what is your experience? 



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Re: Landfill?

[TeoZ via cctalk]

People seem to be looking for AT style PC cases all the time.

-Original Message- 
From: Fred Cisin via cctalk 
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 5:51 PM 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Landfill? 


Is there ANY interest in Courier 56K V.92 modems?

Laserjet IIP printers?

Parallel port and/or SCSI flatbed scanners?  (home office, NOT 
professional)


Oversized PC cases with MANY drive bays?

Generic 386? PCs?


Is it worth even hauling that kinda stuff to VCF?

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Re: WRQ Reflection 4+ DOS

[TeoZ via cctalk]

I have 9 floppy disks for WRQ ReflectionX Windows V4.00 if anybody needs 
images.


-Original Message- 
From: Jim Carpenter via cctalk

Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 10:16 PM
To: Bill Degnan ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: WRQ Reflection 4+ DOS

On 06/05/2018 08:07 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

I should have a copy of the program on diskette, I think its 4.  I can't
imagine this version of Reflection is that hard to find though.  It was
everywhere back during the days of use, like wordperfect 5.  If there are
requests I can image and post on my website for educational purposes only.
ProCom was my go-to program then, but I also used Reflection.  All these
programs worked the same IMHO  most all had DEC terminal emulation


It is impossible to find! Just recently I finally saw on eBay Reflection
4 version 4.3 for DOS. I spent way too much for it. :/

Now Reflection 2 I see a bit of. It is the same as Reflection 4, just
without the ReGIS and Tektronix (4010 or 4014) emulation.

ProComm is what I mostly used back in the day too. On occasion I still
use ProComm Plus 4.8 (the last version) under Wine under Linux for some
things. It's great but I don't believe it's VT emulation is as good as
Reflection 2/4.

If you should come across it, let me know what version of Reflection 4
you have.

Jim 



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Re: old DEC stuff

[TeoZ via cctalk]

Or they now think everything that is worthless is worth massive amounts of 
money.


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk

Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 2:15 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: old DEC stuff



On 05/30/2018 01:55 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

 > From: Dominique Carlier

 > I just regret this incredible rise in prices for collector machines
 > that, not so long ago, were languishing in wet sheds

Hey, look at the bright side: as a result, they are much less likely to be
simply recycled as scrap.


I see quite the opposite.  After a while of sitting, taking up valuable
warehouse space with  no one expressing interest in buying them
they are likely to be scrapped as valueless.


I took great pleasure in telling one seller who'd pulled a board-set,
and recycled the rest, that the part he'd recycled was worth a lot more
than the part he'd saved. Hopefully that kind of news gets around.



And the seller probably laughed it off and sent the next batch to the
scrap yard fondly remembering you as some nut.

bill 



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Re: Is This A Shill?

[TeoZ via cctalk]

I have never had a program to snipe for me, but I like the idea of others 
sniping since it saves me money not being tempted to outbid somebody else 
before the auction ends. I bid low and if I win good, otherwise I wait for 
the item to come around again.


People can get emotional and do bidding wars either in person or using a 3rd 
party app and a large bid. 



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Re: Rick Dickinson, ZX Spectrum designer, RIP

[TeoZ via cctalk]

My first computer was a Timex 2068 just before Timex got out of computers. I 
had seen advertisements for the 1000 model but it looked like junk at the 
time (no real keyboard, you needed to have the 16K RAM cart to do anything). 
Still the 1000 was CHEAP.


When I vacationed in Greece for a summer between HS  and college in the 80's 
I remember seeing all the advertisements for the Sinclair models with the 
wafer drives and thought they were cool looking. I think I even seen a few 
real models at the airport shops.


Still using anything other then a disk drive was a pain and that device 
seemed too expensive for Europe at that time.


Even after I promptly purchased a used C64 from a friend I still looked at 
the mailing lists for Timex/Sinclair products sold out of NYC shops. They 
had all kinds of add-ons and some software to make the units workable but 
most of it was for the 1000 model which must have sold quite a few units 
before being discontinued compared to my 2068.


-Original Message- 
From: Mark J. Blair via cctalk

Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 3:33 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Rick Dickinson, ZX Spectrum designer, RIP

Over here in the US, I remember seeing the Sinclair QL in a magazine 
(probably Byte?) and thinking it looked exotic and interesting. I thought 
the little tape drives looked neat, and didn’t know enough to appreciate how 
much better a floppy drive would have made the system.


I have no regrets at all about getting an Amiga 1000 to take to college, and 
now I appreciate even better than then just how lucky I was. But to this 
day, I’d still like to play with a QL and get an idea of what it would have 
been like to head off to college with a shiny new one of those. There are a 
few other UK computers which I’m also curious about, since they’re not so 
common over here in the US.


--
Mark J. Blair 
http://www.nf6x.net


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Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?

[TeoZ via cctalk]

Only somebody working for the NSA would bother trying to do that. Going from 
theory to practice can be VERY expensive and time consuming.


-Original Message- 
From: Ethan via cctalk

Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 3:26 PM
To: Chuck Guzis ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: R: PATA hard disks, anyone?


Certainly, but it's fruitless to use logic in cases such as these.
Chances are that someone once read the paper from the 1990s that said it
was possible to recover overwritten data from a drive using, IIRC, an
STM--at a rate of what was it? 1 kbit per hour?


AFAIK there has been a bounty out to recover data with a single wipe that
hasn't been collected. I thought it was all theory and never done in
practice?


--
: Ethan O'Toole


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Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[TeoZ via cctalk]

Switches for the buttons go bad, the rollers can corrode making for not so 
smooth movement and the rollers need cleaned. Opticals either work fine or 
they don't work at all (some early MS mice tended to die and had a recall).


-Original Message- 
From: Noel Chiappa via cctalk

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:24 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

   > From: TeoZ

   > mouse (optical mice are better then the old ones with balls). I even
   > keep old ball mice around ... and those do wear out)

Huh? I've got old ball mice I've been using for years; they don't wear out.
The wires do get flaky after a long period of use (at which point I stop
using them - easier to switch than to chop an inch off the wire - the issue
is where it goes into the mouse), and you do have to clean them regularly,
but other than that...

Noel 



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Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[TeoZ via cctalk]

It's  not just on ebay. I asked fellow collectors on 68kmla about their 
machine to keyboard/mouse ratio and they all had more machines then 
keyboards. Sooner or later machines will be useless because there are not 
enough keyboards and mice to go around.


While I keep stacks of mac keyboards and mice in the garage and a stack of 
AT and IBM Model M keyboards in the house I have very few USB keyboards for 
more modern machines in my collection (mostly because by the time USB 
keyboards were common they were cheap junk). Most of the PS/2 keyboards made 
were also junk but I kept a few that were machine specific. I just use a KVM 
with a USB to PS/2 adapter and a Model M keyboard plus USB Microsoft Optical 
mouse (optical mice are better then the old ones with balls). I even keep 
old ball mice around for that vintage feel and to match my systems (and 
those do wear out). Amiga mice for one are pretty hard to find especially 
the A1000 models with the angled plug.


I don't have a problem with people stealing keyboards and junking systems 
when in all likelyhood the whole thing would get scrapped anyway. Many of 
the local machines I have saved over the years were just too heavy to ship 
and worthless at the time so they would have ended up in a dump anyway. How 
many terminal collectors are there now compared to ten years ago or 20 when 
terminal were more common? As keyboards are going up in value I suspect that 
they just keep getting traded around kind of like computers themselves 
(people buy them get bored and flip or trade them).



TZ
-Original Message- 
From: dwight via cctalk

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:28 PM
To: Ian Finder ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

How many Mac's do you see on ebay with no keyboard?

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Ian Finder via 
cctalk 

Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 11:37:14 AM
To: Daniel Seagraves; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:




> On Jan 23, 2018, at 12:15 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> Really, is this any worse than the gold bugs scrapping whole systems for
> the prospective precious metal content?

It seems worse to me because the gold bugs are ignorant and greedy but the
keyboardists are “computer people” and should know better.

Also as far as I know the gold bugs don’t deliberately target rare systems
for their rarity.



Thanks, Daniel, for this succinct differentiation!


--
  Ian Finder
  (206) 395-MIPS
  ian.fin...@gmail.com 



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Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[TeoZ via cctalk]

Didn’t early SUN gear have SCSI floppy drives?

-Original Message- 
From: Fred Cisin via cctalk

Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 9:18 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results 
Registry)


On Thu, 18 Jan 2018, Jason T via cctalk wrote:

Has anyone using one of these cards made use of the SCSI function?  It
has a Centronics 50 connector, which isn't terribly useful unless
you've got the right cable, but if you're building an all-in-one
imaging machine, it might be handy to have SCSI capability as well.
It seems the driver hasn't been in Linux for quite a few versions.
Not sure about the BSDs.


A few SCSI floppy drives existed, but they were never very common.
Only SCSI floppy that I remember having was a "Floptical" (20MB), that
also handled 1.4M

Or, are you suggesting putting together an imaging machine that also
handles HDD, CD-ROM, some tape cartridges, etc.? 



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Re: Large discs (Was: Spectre & Meltdown

[TeoZ via cctalk]

100GB M-Discs are dual layer BlueRay media correct (not readable on a DVD 
player)? I actually have a BDXL BR burner. I also have the M-Disc capable 
DVD burners but never tried that media on them.


-Original Message- 
From: Fred Cisin via cctalk

Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 9:38 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Large discs (Was: Spectre & Meltdown

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018, TeoZ wrote:
Hard drives NEVER keep up. Bragging about how many DVD's (90's technology) 
you can store on current HD means little to people who have ultra HD 
Blueray videos that take up to 100GB of space. Heck even a single game 
download can be 50GB these days.


I'd be interested in hearing about opinions of the 100GB "M-disc".  I've
heard that they have decent longevity, and, the "low" capacity ones are
interchangeable with conventional DVDs.



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Re: Spectre & Meltdown

[TeoZ via cctalk]

Hard drives NEVER keep up. Bragging about how many DVD's (90's technology) 
you can store on current HD means little to people who have ultra HD Blueray 
videos that take up to 100GB of space. Heck even a single game download can 
be 50GB these days.


And I wouldn't mind one of those old networked DVD changers (I think Sony 
sold them commercially) to play around with.


-Original Message- 
From: Fred Cisin via cctalk

Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 6:53 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Spectre & Meltdown

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

Funny,   I've been saying since the 1980s that it you have something
that's critical to your survival, keep it offline.
Until any of my PCs develop the ability to go to my storage cabinet and
fetch a DVD and load it into itself, I'm not sorried.


So, that Exabyte Tape/cartridge Silo might not be such a good idea.

I always wanted Keith Hensen's "Kubik"? CD changer.  Big "carousel slide
tray" full of 240?! CDs/DVDs, in a square box, with a drive in each
corner.  The drives were SCSI, and the load/unload/select control was
RS232. The big square boxes could be stacked, for a larger collection, and
there was a trivial mod to make the tray removable, so that the top box
could be swapped with as many trays as you had shelf space for.

'course hard drives caught up, and I now have about a thousand DVDs in
MP4s on a shirt pocket HDD.  (including ALL of the Doctor Who's that were
released on DVD, Red Dwarf 1 - XII, Dark Matter, Torchwood, Twilight Zone,
Prisoner, Marx Brothers, Doc Martin, One Foot In The Grave, etc.) The DVD
images (V .MP4) take over 5TB. 



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Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available

[TeoZ via cctalk]

LTO is what I use for large archives. Tapes and drives are plentiful and 
cheap. LTO-1 is 100/200GB, LTO-2 is 200/400GB (native compressed). DLT is 
older and lower capacity but cheap, Super DLT is newer and higher capacity 
and expensive.


I also play around with DDS 1-4, AIT 1 and 2, dabble with Tandberg SLR tapes 
and even some QIC/Travan drives for real old gear. Linux/Unix probably has 
drivers for everything but other OS and proprietary backup software would 
not.


IF you just want to move data and have SCSI you can also play around with 
Jazz, Syquest, MO drives.


-Original Message- 
From: devin davison via cctalk

Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:33 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ; Henry Bond
Subject: Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available

I have quite a bit of sgi gear and have been moving quite a bit of data
from a linux machine to my sgi gear via tape recently. dat dds4 and dat 72
drives work good and the tapes are easy to come by. i have many dell
branded dat drives that work without any special configuration. for larger
capacity tapes i use a dell dlt drive. you have to make some tweaks to a
file to make the drive use its full capacity but it works well too.

i trust dlt tapes over dat tapes. i do not make multiple backups to the
same tape. the tapes degrade with use. i make a backup. store the tape, and
only use that tape for future restore operations. so i would reccomend dlt
drives if you can get a compatible drive and a box of new tapes at a good
price.


On Jul 23, 2017 8:51 PM, "Henry Bond via cctalk" 
wrote:

Hi Gang,

I have need to make backups, and if you are going to do something, do it
the proper way. Feel like I'm preaching to the choir here mind.

My issue is finding tape to fit any drive I might buy or choosing an
appropriate tape library device which has tape available to purchase with
relative ease.

Any pointers, suggestions or anecdotes as always is most appreciated.


-H 



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Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available

[TeoZ via cctalk]

The major 8mm tape drives I know about are SONY AIT

-Original Message- 
From: Glen Slick via cctalk 
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 11:35 PM 
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available 


On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


There have been many tape formats that have gone in and out of fashion.
In the late 80s and early 90s, 8mm videotape-type Exabyte carts were
very popular--when have you last seen one?



30 seconds ago. I guess I should clean the Exabyte carts off my dining room
table.

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Re: Removing Pitting and Rust From an Enclosure

[TeoZ via cctalk]

It depends on what the object in question is for (decoration or durability) 
and what time period it was done.


Way back in the early 90's when I worked at a plating facility for the 
printing industry (Tide soap boxes, Marlboro cigarette boxes as an example) 
they used to copper plate  large and heavy steel (or aluminum which needed 
another step) cylinders. The copper layer was then diamond engraved with the 
design for each color  and then a heavy chrome plating was done for wear to 
keep the design from getting damaged from printing rolls of paper or what 
have you. No nickel plating at all back then. A final QC test was spinning 
the cylinder and running sandpaper over it to spot imperfections (shiny 
spots that show indentations where no design was) that would show up during 
printing , if it passed it went to the onsite printer for a proof print 
otherwise acid bath to remove the chrome then the lathe to cut off the 
designs and back to copper plating again. The chrome plating was pretty 
thick.


-Original Message- 
From: Brent Hilpert via cctalk

Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 3:02 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Removing Pitting and Rust From an Enclosure

A copper layer can perform some filling and smoothing function in a plating 
job.
Its perhaps more significant purpose however (as I understand it in my 
limited experience with having plating done*), is to provide an oxygen 
barrier for the steel substrate.


(* OT, FWIW: I once went through the trial, albeit educational, of having a 
chrome Scott radio chassis replated. Longer tale.
A proper chrome plate job is not chrome on steel, it's copper on the steel, 
then nickel, and finished with a few atoms of chrome.) 



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Re: Windows 10 recent creator release may take your printer out. I am really ...

[TeoZ via cctalk]

The switch to home USB printer/scanner combinations also killed off the 
generic standalone scanners (especially the parallel port ones and the 
almost dead SCSI variety).



-Original Message- 
From: Ed via cctalk

Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2017 9:31 PM
To: tin...@gmail.com ; cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Windows 10 recent creator release may take your printer out. I 
am really ...


Hi  Torfinn!


The  real horrible thing was all the scanners that were orphaned in  the
win 98 se  to  XP change  over...lotsa  parallel  port scannersat the
good will after that  upgrade!

Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)




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Re: PreOwned machine privacy - Was: Acclaim Entertainment Indy (with data, emails, etc) on eBay

[TeoZ via cctalk]

How do you feel about reading dead presidents personal letters? At some 
point personal information ends up being historic information.


If there is money (or more money) to be made associating a Computer to a 
company or specific somewhat famous people then sellers will play this angle 
for all it is worth. Anything done on company machines is not private to 
begin with. What exactly are we going to learn other then people asking for 
vacation days, so and so is a shitty boss, the company probably used some 
pirated software, and early artwork or code for games might have been pretty 
shitty.


I get computers all the time with hard drive intact full of company data 
(some defunct, others not) and peoples personal files, music, videos, and 
photos. I don't bother looking at any of it, only backing up hard to find 
drivers or software keys then wiping the drive. If I did come across a user 
that was famous (or infamous) I would probably preserve it (remove the drive 
and store it somewhere) while going about my hobby interest with the 
machine.


Everything we do today is digital, sooner or later there will be no written 
records at all. In the distant future historians will want to know what we 
were doing in 2017 and they will have nothing to go by since all the 
websites will be long gone and all our files will have been erased or saved 
using backup methods nobody can make heads or tales of let alone find the 
programs that can read the files and computers that the programs can run on. 
So I think a small random fraction of users lives should be around to learn 
from. If for some reason we nuke ourselves into oblivion (or more likely 
just keep destroying the environment until we can no long function as a 
society) then maybe people down the road should look over out private files, 
posts, emails, blogs, etc. to see how people could allow it to happen. You 
won't be able to see government files because everything will be stamped Top 
Secret (or more likely deleted) including your own data they illegally 
obtained.






-Original Message- 
From: JP Hindin via cctalk

Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 5:36 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: PreOwned machine privacy - Was: Acclaim Entertainment Indy (with 
data, emails, etc) on eBay




This guy is on Reddit and has been posting lots of stuff from these
machines and I can't help but feel a bit suspect about all of this. While
they're old machines, the information is presumably no longer of any
commercial value and the company no longer exists... I can't help but feel
that this is an invasion of someone's privacy. The commercial content is
one thing - although whether it's truly "abandoned" runs down into all of
those arguments we see flare up in cctalk about once every two years, so
let's not go there again...

But... eMails? I dunno. I've been pulling a lot of data off a Cray J90 and
I've had a lot of people ask me to release it to the public and I just
can't bring myself to do so. I'm _pretty sure_ that it belonged to NASA,
which might mean some/all of the information may even be Public Domain -
but this has people's usernames, and lord knows what kind of effort they
put into the work. (And that's ignoring how not-qualified I am to make the
PD assertion)

It just feels _wrong_ to me, personally.

While I'm not specifically crapping on the guy selling this Indy - I'm
kind of curious how others feel about this sort of thing as it's something
I've been confronted with personally lately.

Cheers;

 - JP 



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Re: Pair of Twiggys

[TeoZ via cctalk]

Superdrives (floppy drives) are starting to be a problem on 68k Mac systems 
because they fail (motors die, heads get ripped off, etc).  The later ones 
with the black flap (cost reduced) found on PPC systems seem to last. Same 
problems with the IBM PS/2 floppy drives.


Twiggy drives seemed to be junk even new, which is why they changed the 
model to use the Sony 3.5" drives.


-Original Message- 
From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk

Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:40 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Pair of Twiggys


I always wondered about the wisdom of single-sourcing storage devices
such as the Next optical drive, the Twiggy or the SuperDrive of the
early Macs.

--Chuck 



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