[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
On 6/28/23 12:13 AM, Fred Cisin wrote: It is sometimes caalled that. ;-) With many boxes of used cables, often there will be cables that are DB-25, but with 16 pins missing in the 25 pin connector, often leaving pins 1-8 and 20, and gaps where other pins could have been.. I call THAT a DB-9 :-) Similarly, if a DB-25 has 10 pins missing from the 25 pin connector, then I call THAT a DB-15. That's ... different than I would have expected. I can see the logic. But I don't think I would have gotten there on my own without seeing / reading examples. DA, DC, DE connectors are a different size D shell than the DB, which is the one commonly used for a 25 pin cable. ACK
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
On 6/28/23 8:48 AM, Tony Duell wrote: I was being a bit of a smart alec too. I'm glad that I was / you were / we are as I think this is shaping up to be another very interesting thread where I learn a lot of minutia that I wouldn't otherwise learn. #todayIlearned :-D
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
> Not necessarily a DEC thing. TEMPEST PC's (and other TEMPEST boxes like > fiber > > ethernet transceivers) also had screw connectors rather than the spring > clip ones. It's semi-common on random old stuff, yeah. I've got a Cisco IGS that uses jackscrews, and have had a pretty good number of ISA Ethernet boards that use either jackscrews in the usual D-SUB location, or the really wide-set ones that like two transceivers fit. For the Cisco IGS, there's a part # for an adapter cable with jackscrews on the router end and slide latches on the transceiver end, but they rarely show up. I have one or two for it, but have not found more. Protip: Ungermann-Bass made jackscrew transceivers both ways (wide and standard) and they're usually cheap. Thanks, Jonathan
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
50 pin DD connectors are alive and well on the backplanes of some day job ATRs with new electronics in the old VME form factor. 3 x 16 STPs pass through them very nicely en route to front panel connectors. Both dense, decently robust and legacy compliant. More generally, if you have access to a Daniels AFM8 crimp tool and positioner, the Harting crimp contact Dsubs are very good for odd jobs; e.g. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/d-sub-connectors/1007759 The turned pin contacts are much preferable to the bent tin ones e.g. https://www.peigenesis.com/en/shop/part-information/M3902964369/TRI/EACH/301791.html Unfortunately, while the bodies are inexpensive the pins and infrastructure are not. More positively, the connectors don't noticeably degrade with rework. Martin -Original Message- From: Paul Koning via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] Sent: 28 June 2023 13:19 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Paul Koning Subject: [cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable > On Jun 28, 2023, at 1:13 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > DA, DC, DE connectors are a different size D shell than the DB, which is the > one commonly used for a 25 pin cable. There is also DD, though I've never seen one in the wild. DA is the shell for AUI connectors, DC is used for RS-422 (37 pins) I think. All of these come in regular density and high density variations. For most of them, regular is 2 rows and HD is 3 -- so a VGA connector is a DE-15, high density DE shell connector. But the DD regular density is 3 rows and the high density is 4 rows. Meanwhile, on AUI cables: the difficulty with plugging a transceiver into the Pro is that the Pro uses regular nuts, for a plug that secures by screws. That's non-standard, since the AUI spec calls for the "turret" and sliding latch type. So a standard AUI cable wouldn't be a real cure because you'd still have that mismatch. A simple solution is an adapter. I bought one from L-com: https://www.l-com.com/d-sub-aui-to-db15-adapter-male-female which says that it is "discontinued" but also shows "available: 11" so perhaps you can still get one. Failing that, an option would be to get a "socket saver" -- which is just a thin device with a connector at each end, intended to save the device connectors from wear -- and remove the transceiver-side fastener so the transceiver can plug in. That second option doesn't give you a secure attachment but it's likely good enough. paul
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
On 6/28/2023 8:23 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Meanwhile, on AUI cables: the difficulty with plugging a transceiver into the Pro is that the Pro uses regular nuts, for a plug that secures by screws. That's non-standard, since the AUI spec calls for the "turret" and sliding latch type. So a standard AUI cable wouldn't be a real cure because you'd still have that mismatch. Yup, it's a DEC thing, however the DEQNA cab kits do the proper cam and lock interface. I thought about removing the nuts, but went with ordering a cable and I'll pull the studs off it to make it work. Sub optimal but that is DEC (also I remember AUI cables did come with screws so other vendors did this in the early days as well) Not necessarily a DEC thing. TEMPEST PC's (and other TEMPEST boxes like fiber ethernet transceivers) also had screw connectors rather than the spring clip ones. bill
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
> On Jun 28, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk > wrote: > > >> Meanwhile, on AUI cables: the difficulty with plugging a transceiver into >> the Pro is that the Pro uses regular nuts, for a plug that secures by >> screws. That's non-standard, since the AUI spec calls for the "turret" and >> sliding latch type. So a standard AUI cable wouldn't be a real cure because >> you'd still have that mismatch. > > Yup, it's a DEC thing, however the DEQNA cab kits do the proper cam and lock > interface. I thought about removing the nuts, but went with ordering a cable > and I'll pull the studs off it to make it work. Sub optimal but that is DEC > (also I remember AUI cables did come with screws so other vendors did this in > the early days as well) Yes, DEC usually did things per the standard, which makes sense since after all they wrote a lot of it, but the Pro (and apparently a few other devices) did it strangely. As for other vendors, I've heard that. The DEC case is so strange partly because of DEC's tradition of following standards, and partly from the fact that with the Pro you have a cable with one standard and one non-standard connector. Did you look at the L-com adapter? That's the ideal answer, if you can still get one. Or if some other vendor offers the same thing. I have one of those on my Pro, along with a couple of "connector savers" to allow normal connectors to connect without bumping into the plastic shell of the Pro. paul
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 5:02 PM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > Yup, it's a DEC thing, however the DEQNA cab kits do the proper cam and > lock interface. I thought about removing the nuts, but went with > ordering a cable and I'll pull the studs off it to make it work. Sub > optimal but that is DEC (also I remember AUI cables did come with screws > so other vendors did this in the early days as well) Classic PERQs certainly did (4-40 UNC jackposts and screws rather than the slidelock). That's one reason I had to make my own AUI cable. Of course a couple of weeks later I spotted a couple of cables with DA15 connectors being thrown out. I grabbed them, they turned out to be genuine ICL PERQ AUI cables... -tony
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
Meanwhile, on AUI cables: the difficulty with plugging a transceiver into the Pro is that the Pro uses regular nuts, for a plug that secures by screws. That's non-standard, since the AUI spec calls for the "turret" and sliding latch type. So a standard AUI cable wouldn't be a real cure because you'd still have that mismatch. Yup, it's a DEC thing, however the DEQNA cab kits do the proper cam and lock interface. I thought about removing the nuts, but went with ordering a cable and I'll pull the studs off it to make it work. Sub optimal but that is DEC (also I remember AUI cables did come with screws so other vendors did this in the early days as well) Ordered from Ebay, all well. Next step is to start figuring out how to VMR the POS.SYS file and see how the drivers are in there. CZ A simple solution is an adapter. I bought one from L-com: https://www.l-com.com/d-sub-aui-to-db15-adapter-male-female which says that it is "discontinued" but also shows "available: 11" so perhaps you can still get one. Failing that, an option would be to get a "socket saver" -- which is just a thin device with a connector at each end, intended to save the device connectors from wear -- and remove the transceiver-side fastener so the transceiver can plug in. That second option doesn't give you a secure attachment but it's likely good enough. paul
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
On 6/28/23 09:40, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Jun 28, 2023, at 9:48 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 6:00 AM Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: Tony's email makes me ask more questions than I have (smart alack) answers to. Maybe ~> hopefully I can ~> will learn something. I was being a bit of a smart alec too. The point I was making is that a bit of normal IDC ribbon cable is not electrically the correct cable for an AUI interface but it won't matter over a few inches. The correct cable is 4 twisted pairs with a overall screen (shield). One pair is thicker wires than the other 3 and is used for the power. This cable was very hard to get by the metre when I needed some about 30 years ago, and a full reel was several hundred pounds. I was lucky enough to be given a couple of metres as an 'offcut' by a gentleman who worked in network support. You probably need something like that if you're makng a 1m cable. But not for what the OP is trying to do. I did make up an AUI cable out of 4 separate shielded twisted-pair cables. Just tie-wrapped them together. Jon
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
Keep in mind that a Pro does not accept a real AUI cable. It takes a cable with an AUI connector (slide lock type) at the transceiver end, but a DA-15 connector with the conventional screw fasteners as you'd find on a serial port for the computer end. If you try a real AUI cable you're right back at the problem Chris was trying to solve, which is that the connector has the posts for the slide lock, but the computer has the nuts for the screws, and the connector can't mate because the two are in each other's way. aul > On Jun 28, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk > wrote: > > I have a real DEC AUI cable and live in MD. I think it is 10 feet long. > Doug > > On 6/27/2023 9:16 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: >> Anyone in MD got an AUI cable (few feet long) I can steal so I don't have to >> remove the bolts from the Pro/380's Ethernet socket or the pins on my 10bt >> ethernet MAU? >> >> Friendly note: If you try to boot a Pro/380 running POS 3.2 with Decnet >> installed and don't have the loopback plug the system will crash hard with a >> numeric error on the display. Noted. >> >> CZ >> >
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
> On Jun 28, 2023, at 9:48 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk > wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 6:00 AM Grant Taylor via cctalk > wrote: >> >> Tony's email makes me ask more questions than I have (smart alack) >> answers to. Maybe ~> hopefully I can ~> will learn something. > > I was being a bit of a smart alec too. The point I was making is that > a bit of normal IDC ribbon cable is not electrically the correct cable > for an AUI interface but it won't matter over a few inches. > > The correct cable is 4 twisted pairs with a overall screen (shield). > One pair is thicker wires than the other 3 and is used for the power. > This cable was very hard to get by the metre when I needed some about > 30 years ago, and a full reel was several hundred pounds. I was lucky > enough to be given a couple of metres as an 'offcut' by a gentleman > who worked in network support. You probably need something like that > if you're makng a 1m cable. But not for what the OP is trying to do. Not for one meter. For 50 meters, sure, although a piece of Cat 5 Ethernet cable for the signals along with a separate wire pair for power may well be an entirely adequate substitute. The rule of thumb I would use is that any wrong-impedance connection shorter than a 5 percent or so of the wavelength isn't a problem. For 10 Mb/s Ethernet that translates to 1.5 to 2 meters. This is also why "UHF" connectors are acceptable at RF frequencies (but not at UHF frequencies, never mind what they call themselves). paul
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
I have a real DEC AUI cable and live in MD. I think it is 10 feet long. Doug On 6/27/2023 9:16 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Anyone in MD got an AUI cable (few feet long) I can steal so I don't have to remove the bolts from the Pro/380's Ethernet socket or the pins on my 10bt ethernet MAU? Friendly note: If you try to boot a Pro/380 running POS 3.2 with Decnet installed and don't have the loopback plug the system will crash hard with a numeric error on the display. Noted. CZ
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
> On Jun 28, 2023, at 9:56 AM, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk > wrote: > > ... >> If you want to link 2 transceivers together on the AUI side then >> that's a network bridge. Even a basc one is quite a lot of >> electronics. > > DEC's full wirespeed bridge was supposedly considered something of an > engineering miracle at the time and occupies 2U of rack space! 3U. But yes, it took some pretty good wizardry to run at that speed with the machinery of the time, certainly at that cost. Along the same lines, designing the DECbridge-900 was quite an interesting exercise. While it doesn't run quite at 6 x Ethernet wire speed, it does manage about 60k packets per second. More importantly, it includes algorithms to ensure that spanning tree packets are always handled even if the device is presented with an overload. You can see it in US patent 6,301,224. The DECbridge-900 achieved that performance with forwarding in software, in a Motorola 68040 at 25 MHz, with a little help from a 64-entry CAM. For wiring two 10Mb Ethernet NICs together, a bridge will certainly serve, as will a pair of transceivers. A repeater will also do the job. Or a DELNI, which isn't technically a repeater; I don't think it is a device described by the standard at all, just a piece of magic that interoperates with the standard by suitable magic. paul
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
> There is no real equivalent of an 'AUI null modem cable' (should that > be 'null transceiver cable'?) > > If you want to link 2 computer-type ports together you need the > equiavelent of 2 transceivers. This (or devices like it) is probably the only single-piece two station "null modem adapter": https://i.imgur.com/qiMh9Tc.jpg It's a twin tap, with two AUI connectors. If you drop an intrusive BNC or N tap in there and terminate it, it'd act like a "null modem" for AUI. > If you want to link 2 transceivers together on the AUI side then > that's a network bridge. Even a basc one is quite a lot of > electronics. DEC's full wirespeed bridge was supposedly considered something of an engineering miracle at the time and occupies 2U of rack space! Thanks, Jonathan
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 2:44 PM Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: > > > For a few inches, which would be enough here I think, I've used an IDC > > DA15 plug and socket crimped onto the normal ribbon cable. Technically > > it's wrong but the reflections on that length of cable won't matter. > > That's how Sun VME Ethernet boards are set up, the board itself is way back > near the VME connectors and small (or a Multibus in a converter, and small). > Can't be too bad if Sun did it on serious business workstations, right?! > As a PERQ-fanatic, I'd better not give my prejudiced views on Sun :-) But seriously. Sun machines work on the ethernet just fine. So it shows you can break the rules a bit... -tony
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 6:00 AM Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > Tony's email makes me ask more questions than I have (smart alack) > answers to. Maybe ~> hopefully I can ~> will learn something. I was being a bit of a smart alec too. The point I was making is that a bit of normal IDC ribbon cable is not electrically the correct cable for an AUI interface but it won't matter over a few inches. The correct cable is 4 twisted pairs with a overall screen (shield). One pair is thicker wires than the other 3 and is used for the power. This cable was very hard to get by the metre when I needed some about 30 years ago, and a full reel was several hundred pounds. I was lucky enough to be given a couple of metres as an 'offcut' by a gentleman who worked in network support. You probably need something like that if you're makng a 1m cable. But not for what the OP is trying to do. > > On 6/27/23 10:26 PM, Tony Duell wrote: > > For a few inches, which would be enough here I think, I've used an IDC > > DA15 plug and socket crimped onto the normal ribbon cable. Technically > > it's wrong but the reflections on that length of cable won't matter. > > Isn't 10Base quite resilient? Especially at these distances? There are 2 problems with the wrong cable. Firstly will it carry the current for the power supply pins? My experience is that it will, at least for most transceivers. The second is that the characteristic impedance is wrong. It's actually not too far off but... This will cause reflections. It won't matter on a few inches as the reflections will take about a nanosecond to get back and will die out in << the bit time. It may matter on longer cables. > > Though I don't know if AUI is considered 10Base in and of > itself. Doesn't it become 10Base5 / 10Base2 / 10Base-T based on what > transceiver is on the other side of / attached to the other end of the > AUI cable? AFAK AUI is not 10baseAnything for the reason you give > > I'm assuming that MAU is meant for multiple stations to connect an AUI MAU is something like 'media access unit' and is the official name for a transceiver. Due to the fact that there had to be a certain distance between transceivers on the cable, there were things that had multiple AUI connectors to link to computers (these were normally male DA15s on the unit, so a normal transceiver cable would work) and a further AUI connector (normally a female DA15) for a transceiver onto the 'real' ethernet. DEC's DELNI is a common-ish example of such a unit, I think the printset is on bitsavers > cable into and it then connects to the ostensibly 10Base > network. -- I originally read and was replying as if Chris was trying > to take the AUI port on his Pro/380 and connect it to an AUI port on a > hub / switch. My concern being that both AUI ports would be the same > gender and assuming that there are (at least) a pair of transceivers > converting each device from AUI to 10Base to connect to each > other. There is no real equivalent of an 'AUI null modem cable' (should that be 'null transceiver cable'?) If you want to link 2 computer-type ports together you need the equiavelent of 2 transceivers. Probably the easiest is a pair of 10baseT transceivers and a crossover 8p8c cable If you want to link 2 transceivers together on the AUI side then that's a network bridge. Even a basc one is quite a lot of electronics. If you want it to only pass on packets for particular machines then it gets very complicated, one that I picked up last year contains a 68020 CPU _and_ a board containing a 16 bit processor made from 2900-series bitslice stuff -tony
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
> There is also DD, though I've never seen one in the wild. Old SCSI uses DD-50. I've also seen it used on Pertec tape controllers and multiport serial cards. Thanks, Jonathan
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
> For a few inches, which would be enough here I think, I've used an IDC > DA15 plug and socket crimped onto the normal ribbon cable. Technically > it's wrong but the reflections on that length of cable won't matter. That's how Sun VME Ethernet boards are set up, the board itself is way back near the VME connectors and small (or a Multibus in a converter, and small). Can't be too bad if Sun did it on serious business workstations, right?! Thanks, Jonathan
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 6:13 AM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > With many boxes of used cables, often there will be cables that are DB-25, > but with 16 pins missing in the 25 pin connector, often leaving pins 1-8 > and 20, and gaps where other pins could have been.. I call THAT a DB-9 > The DE9 serial port includes RingIndicator (pin 22 on the DB25 one) but not protective ground (pin 1 of the DB25). I've found a number of cables that therefore wire 10 pins -- 1-8,20,22. You can call that a DB10 if you like (I don't) -tony
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 1:19 PM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > > > On Jun 28, 2023, at 1:13 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > > wrote: > > > > DA, DC, DE connectors are a different size D shell than the DB, which is > > the one commonly used for a 25 pin cable. > > There is also DD, though I've never seen one in the wild. DA is the shell > for AUI connectors, DC is used for RS-422 (37 pins) I think. The DD50 (standard density) has been used for SCSI-1 (maybe old Sun machines?) amongst other places. I've certainly used them. I did once fit an ST412 interface onto a DD50 socket. There's a total of 54 wires on the 34 pin control and 20 pin data cables of course but enough wires unused on the latter than you can get away with 50 pins. I've seen a DD78 on some HP device but I forget what. DC37 was used for RS449, PC external floppy drives,etc. DC62 was the connector for the IBM5161 expansion unit. There are DA26 and DB44 connectors but I don't think I've ever used them. FWIW I have seen Centronics parallel interfaces on DA15 connectors (there are enough pins for 8 data lines, strobe, busy, ground and a few other signals). There is NO standardisation, I've got a Tandata videotext terminal, a Philips videotext terminal and an HP2225P printer here and they don't even agree on the ground and data lines. -tony
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
I probably have one here in Landenberg which is on the PA side of the MD/PA border if you can find no other sources. Not in front of me to verify, but I think I have three plastic bins of them along with related parts. Bill On Wed, Jun 28, 2023, 8:19 AM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > > On Jun 28, 2023, at 1:13 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > DA, DC, DE connectors are a different size D shell than the DB, which is > the one commonly used for a 25 pin cable. > > There is also DD, though I've never seen one in the wild. DA is the shell > for AUI connectors, DC is used for RS-422 (37 pins) I think. > > All of these come in regular density and high density variations. For > most of them, regular is 2 rows and HD is 3 -- so a VGA connector is a > DE-15, high density DE shell connector. But the DD regular density is 3 > rows and the high density is 4 rows. > > Meanwhile, on AUI cables: the difficulty with plugging a transceiver into > the Pro is that the Pro uses regular nuts, for a plug that secures by > screws. That's non-standard, since the AUI spec calls for the "turret" and > sliding latch type. So a standard AUI cable wouldn't be a real cure > because you'd still have that mismatch. > > A simple solution is an adapter. I bought one from L-com: > https://www.l-com.com/d-sub-aui-to-db15-adapter-male-female which says > that it is "discontinued" but also shows "available: 11" so perhaps you can > still get one. Failing that, an option would be to get a "socket saver" -- > which is just a thin device with a connector at each end, intended to save > the device connectors from wear -- and remove the transceiver-side fastener > so the transceiver can plug in. That second option doesn't give you a > secure attachment but it's likely good enough. > > paul > >
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
> On Jun 28, 2023, at 1:00 AM, Grant Taylor via cctalk > wrote: > > Tony's email makes me ask more questions than I have (smart alack) answers > to. Maybe ~> hopefully I can ~> will learn something. > > On 6/27/23 10:26 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >> For a few inches, which would be enough here I think, I've used an IDC DA15 >> plug and socket crimped onto the normal ribbon cable. Technically it's wrong >> but the reflections on that length of cable won't matter. > > Isn't 10Base quite resilient? Especially at these distances? Very definitely. The Ethernet spec gives a 50 meter limit for the AUI cable length, and describes it as a controlled impedance cable with shielded twisted pairs. But I agree with Tony that for short lengths a plain ribbon cable would do just fine. And "short" I would define as "electrically short" -- much less than a wavelength, so one meter is likely still ok if you need that much. > Though I don't know if AUI is considered 10Base in and of itself. > Doesn't it become 10Base5 / 10Base2 / 10Base-T based on what transceiver is > on the other side of / attached to the other end of the AUI cable? Correct. The AUI cable is defined for 10 Mb/s Ethernet, and the transceiver at the far end attaches it to 10Base5 or 2 or T or even "broad" (Ethernet over cable TV). paul
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
> On Jun 28, 2023, at 1:13 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > DA, DC, DE connectors are a different size D shell than the DB, which is the > one commonly used for a 25 pin cable. There is also DD, though I've never seen one in the wild. DA is the shell for AUI connectors, DC is used for RS-422 (37 pins) I think. All of these come in regular density and high density variations. For most of them, regular is 2 rows and HD is 3 -- so a VGA connector is a DE-15, high density DE shell connector. But the DD regular density is 3 rows and the high density is 4 rows. Meanwhile, on AUI cables: the difficulty with plugging a transceiver into the Pro is that the Pro uses regular nuts, for a plug that secures by screws. That's non-standard, since the AUI spec calls for the "turret" and sliding latch type. So a standard AUI cable wouldn't be a real cure because you'd still have that mismatch. A simple solution is an adapter. I bought one from L-com: https://www.l-com.com/d-sub-aui-to-db15-adapter-male-female which says that it is "discontinued" but also shows "available: 11" so perhaps you can still get one. Failing that, an option would be to get a "socket saver" -- which is just a thin device with a connector at each end, intended to save the device connectors from wear -- and remove the transceiver-side fastener so the transceiver can plug in. That second option doesn't give you a secure attachment but it's likely good enough. paul
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
If we're being pedantic ;-) Since you asked for it, the PC joystick connector was a DA-15; the PC VGA connector was a DE-15. On Tue, 27 Jun 2023, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: Wasn't PC VGA considered a /High/ /Density/ DE-15? It is sometimes caalled that. A DB-9 was a 25 pin connector (often serial), and often with pins 1-8 and 20. I don't know which pins would be present on a DB-15. I'm not tracking. How is a DB-9 (pin) *cough* DE-9 *cough* a 9-pin connector? How does that make it to the DB-25? Or are you meaning to say that many DB-25 pin serial ports were really wired up as if they were a 9-pin serial port, independent of the physical connector? DB-15??? Did you mean DA-15? I'll see myself out now. ;-) With many boxes of used cables, often there will be cables that are DB-25, but with 16 pins missing in the 25 pin connector, often leaving pins 1-8 and 20, and gaps where other pins could have been.. I call THAT a DB-9 :-) Similarly, if a DB-25 has 10 pins missing from the 25 pin connector, then I call THAT a DB-15. DA, DC, DE connectors are a different size D shell than the DB, which is the one commonly used for a 25 pin cable.
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
Tony's email makes me ask more questions than I have (smart alack) answers to. Maybe ~> hopefully I can ~> will learn something. On 6/27/23 10:26 PM, Tony Duell wrote: For a few inches, which would be enough here I think, I've used an IDC DA15 plug and socket crimped onto the normal ribbon cable. Technically it's wrong but the reflections on that length of cable won't matter. Isn't 10Base quite resilient? Especially at these distances? Though I don't know if AUI is considered 10Base in and of itself. Doesn't it become 10Base5 / 10Base2 / 10Base-T based on what transceiver is on the other side of / attached to the other end of the AUI cable? I'm assuming that MAU is meant for multiple stations to connect an AUI cable into and it then connects to the ostensibly 10Base network. -- I originally read and was replying as if Chris was trying to take the AUI port on his Pro/380 and connect it to an AUI port on a hub / switch. My concern being that both AUI ports would be the same gender and assuming that there are (at least) a pair of transceivers converting each device from AUI to 10Base to connect to each other. Grant. . . .
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
If we're being pedantic ;-) On 6/27/23 9:35 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: Since you asked for it, the PC joystick connector was a DA-15; the PC VGA connector was a DE-15. Wasn't PC VGA considered a /High/ /Density/ DE-15? A DB-9 was a 25 pin connector (often serial), and often with pins 1-8 and 20. I don't know which pins would be present on a DB-15. I'm not tracking. How is a DB-9 (pin) *cough* DE-9 *cough* a 9-pin connector? How does that make it to the DB-25? Or are you meaning to say that many DB-25 pin serial ports were really wired up as if they were a 9-pin serial port, independent of the physical connector? DB-15??? Did you mean DA-15? I'll see myself out now. ;-) Grant. . . .
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 2:17 AM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > > Anyone in MD got an AUI cable (few feet long) I can steal so I don't > have to remove the bolts from the Pro/380's Ethernet socket or the pins > on my 10bt ethernet MAU? For a few inches, which would be enough here I think, I've used an IDC DA15 plug and socket crimped onto the normal ribbon cable. Technically it's wrong but the reflections on that length of cable won't matter. -tony
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: Anyone in MD got an AUI cable (few feet long) I can steal so I don't have to remove the bolts from the Pro/380's Ethernet socket or the pins on my 10bt ethernet MAU? I just cheat and use a straight through DB-15 (waiting for someone to tell me it's a DQ-15 or something instead ;), like a PC joystick cable or some such. Since you asked for it, the PC joystick connector was a DA-15; the PC VGA connector was a DE-15. A DB-9 was a 25 pin connector (often serial), and often with pins 1-8 and 20. I don't know which pins would be present on a DB-15.
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
These are my go-to for short ones: https://www.ebay.com/itm/233295839501 Not affiliated with seller, just a satisfied customer. Thanks, Jonathan --- Original Message --- On Tuesday, June 27th, 2023 at 21:16, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > > > Anyone in MD got an AUI cable (few feet long) I can steal so I don't > have to remove the bolts from the Pro/380's Ethernet socket or the pins > on my 10bt ethernet MAU? > > Friendly note: If you try to boot a Pro/380 running POS 3.2 with Decnet > installed and don't have the loopback plug the system will crash hard > with a numeric error on the display. Noted. > > CZ
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
> Anyone in MD got an AUI cable (few feet long) I can steal so I don't have to > remove the bolts from the Pro/380's Ethernet socket or the pins on my 10bt > ethernet MAU? I just cheat and use a straight through DB-15 (waiting for someone to tell me it's a DQ-15 or something instead ;), like a PC joystick cable or some such. > Friendly note: If you try to boot a Pro/380 running POS 3.2 with Decnet > installed and don't have the loopback plug the system will crash hard with a > numeric error on the display. Noted. Duly noted for the one I have here, but it runs Venix/PRO. Gotta try 2.9BSD one of these days. -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- 1-GHz Pentium-III + Java + XSLT == 1-MHz 6502. -- Craig Bruce --
