[cctalk] Re: Two IBM 360's available in the UK
> -Original Message- > From: Christian Corti via cctalk > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 8:03 AM > To: Adam Bradley via cctalk > Cc: Christian Corti > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Two IBM 360's available in the UK > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2024, Adam Bradley wrote: > > Some of you may remember that I (Adam) and another chap (Chris) > > rescued two IBM 360/20 systems out of an abandoned building in > > Nuremberg back in 2019 and brought them to the UK (our blog is here: > https://www.ibm360.co.uk/). > > > > We have since basically found ourselves unable to effectively progress > > the project due to personal & professional commitments. For various > > reasons (explained in our latest blog post) we are testing the waters > > for making the machines available to the right sort of people. > > Sad to hear that. > We (Computermuseum Stuttgart) did place a bid, too. We were a bit > disappointed that instead of going just 200km, it went abroad to a now non-EU > country (which makes re-importing unattractive). But then, after we saw the > pictures of the house and the system, we were somehow glad that we did not > win ;-) We realised that, first, the overall condition is unknown or bad, and > second, it is simply not worth more than a couple of hundred Euros considering > all the forthcoming costs and time needed to transport the lot, store and restore > it etc. > I don't know if History@IBM was interested, though (they have a working > 360/20 system). And maybe the Vintage Computing Lab in Munich was > interested, too (they have a large mainframes collection, and also the last IBM > 705, although not complete). > I guess that the UK /360s are now "lost" for any non-profit/non-budget museum > in the EU. Why should this be. I don't believe there is any import duty on items for exhibit in a museum. Any VAT should be on the current value. Yes there would be the cost of transport, but I am sure that could be crowd funded or otherwise sorted. I think the big question is, could it realistically be restored? Who would actually want to do this if they don't own it and don't have any guaranteed future rights. These questions are why many Museums only accept unconditional donations, but its also why people don't want to donate to museums as the future of the objects can be uncertain. > > > Christian Dave
[cctalk] Re: Two IBM 360's available in the UK
On Sat, 16 Mar 2024, Adam Bradley wrote: Some of you may remember that I (Adam) and another chap (Chris) rescued two IBM 360/20 systems out of an abandoned building in Nuremberg back in 2019 and brought them to the UK (our blog is here: https://www.ibm360.co.uk/). We have since basically found ourselves unable to effectively progress the project due to personal & professional commitments. For various reasons (explained in our latest blog post) we are testing the waters for making the machines available to the right sort of people. Sad to hear that. We (Computermuseum Stuttgart) did place a bid, too. We were a bit disappointed that instead of going just 200km, it went abroad to a now non-EU country (which makes re-importing unattractive). But then, after we saw the pictures of the house and the system, we were somehow glad that we did not win ;-) We realised that, first, the overall condition is unknown or bad, and second, it is simply not worth more than a couple of hundred Euros considering all the forthcoming costs and time needed to transport the lot, store and restore it etc. I don't know if History@IBM was interested, though (they have a working 360/20 system). And maybe the Vintage Computing Lab in Munich was interested, too (they have a large mainframes collection, and also the last IBM 705, although not complete). I guess that the UK /360s are now "lost" for any non-profit/non-budget museum in the EU. Christian
[cctalk] Re: Two IBM 360's available in the UK
Oops, not meant to go to everyone... -- Will On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 2:13 PM William Donzelli wrote: > > Well...just as I am typing up an email to you... > > Anyway, I hope these get saved - it is quite a score. I wish I could > take it, but I can not. > > But I could take part of it, the System/370 model 125. It would be > nice to bring it back to the US, assuming it was US built. > > Lets keep a channel open about this. > > -- > Will > > On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 2:05 PM Adam Bradley via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > Some of you may remember that I (Adam) and another chap (Chris) rescued two > > IBM 360/20 systems out of an abandoned building in Nuremberg back in 2019 > > and brought them to the UK (our blog is here: https://www.ibm360.co.uk/). > > > > We have since basically found ourselves unable to effectively progress the > > project due to personal & professional commitments. For various reasons > > (explained in our latest blog post) we are testing the waters for making > > the machines available to the right sort of people. > > > > We are therefore inviting proposals or offers focused around one of the > > following core ideas: > > > >1. A museum or preservation organisation takes the machines on permanent > >loan or possibly as a donation depending upon exactly what the terms look > >like > >2. A private entity takes the machines on loan for display for a fix > >period > >3. A foreign museum takes the machines, with negotiation around coverage > >of our costs > >4. A private collector purchases the machines from us for a sum to be > >negotiated at the time > > > > If you have an alternate proposal we would also be open to hearing it. > > > > We have three main systems in the collection, as detailed below: > > > > *Red IBM 360 Model 20 System* > > > > 1 x IBM 360 Model 20 CPU in Red > > > > 1x 2203 System Printer > > > > 2x 2311 Disk Drives > > > > 1x 2152 System Console (possibly the last remaining example of this in the > > world, though in poor condition) > > > > 1x 2560 Punched Card Reader/Punch/Sorter > > > > 1x 2501 Punched Card Reader > > > > 2x 2415 II Tape Drives (One master, one slave) (Possibly only remaining > > examples of this model globally) > > > > 25x IBM Disc Packs > > > > *Blue IBM 360 Model 20 System* > > > > 1 x IBM 360 Model 20 CPU in Blue > > > > 1x 2501 Punched Card Reader > > > > 1x 1403 Printer > > > > *System 370/125* > > > > 1x 370/125 CPU – Unknown condition > > > > 1x 3504 Punched card reader (incomplete) > > > > *Miscellaneous* > > > > 1x 029 Card Punch > > > > 1x 5471 System Console > > > > Assorted other spares and unknown/incomplete components > > > > Around 12 full boxes of brand new IBM punched cards > > > > --- > > > > In an ideal world we would like to see everything go together, but we > > understand that this is an enormous amount of kit and that might not be > > possible. We are not willing to split up individual systems, but we are > > willing to split things by the groupings above. For instance if there was > > interest in only the red system due to its complete set of peripherals, we > > would be willing to negotiate on that basis. > > > > It is extremely rare that systems such as this become available, and these > > are two of only a handful of privately held IBM 360’s in the world. > > > > If you have an idea or a proposal, please email me directly at this > > address. Please do NOT email me to suggest I contact X museum unless you > > are a representative of that museum or hold a direct relationship with them > > and know they are interested. > > > > We are genuinely sad that we’ve been unable to work on this project and > > take it where we wanted it to go. We set out with strong intentions, but > > alas, as is often the case life took over and we were unable to push > > forward in the way we wanted to. We hope that someone comes along who will > > be able to keep the systems safe for future generations. > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Adam Bradley
[cctalk] Re: Two IBM 360's available in the UK
Well...just as I am typing up an email to you... Anyway, I hope these get saved - it is quite a score. I wish I could take it, but I can not. But I could take part of it, the System/370 model 125. It would be nice to bring it back to the US, assuming it was US built. Lets keep a channel open about this. -- Will On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 2:05 PM Adam Bradley via cctalk wrote: > > Hi all, > > Some of you may remember that I (Adam) and another chap (Chris) rescued two > IBM 360/20 systems out of an abandoned building in Nuremberg back in 2019 > and brought them to the UK (our blog is here: https://www.ibm360.co.uk/). > > We have since basically found ourselves unable to effectively progress the > project due to personal & professional commitments. For various reasons > (explained in our latest blog post) we are testing the waters for making > the machines available to the right sort of people. > > We are therefore inviting proposals or offers focused around one of the > following core ideas: > >1. A museum or preservation organisation takes the machines on permanent >loan or possibly as a donation depending upon exactly what the terms look >like >2. A private entity takes the machines on loan for display for a fix >period >3. A foreign museum takes the machines, with negotiation around coverage >of our costs >4. A private collector purchases the machines from us for a sum to be >negotiated at the time > > If you have an alternate proposal we would also be open to hearing it. > > We have three main systems in the collection, as detailed below: > > *Red IBM 360 Model 20 System* > > 1 x IBM 360 Model 20 CPU in Red > > 1x 2203 System Printer > > 2x 2311 Disk Drives > > 1x 2152 System Console (possibly the last remaining example of this in the > world, though in poor condition) > > 1x 2560 Punched Card Reader/Punch/Sorter > > 1x 2501 Punched Card Reader > > 2x 2415 II Tape Drives (One master, one slave) (Possibly only remaining > examples of this model globally) > > 25x IBM Disc Packs > > *Blue IBM 360 Model 20 System* > > 1 x IBM 360 Model 20 CPU in Blue > > 1x 2501 Punched Card Reader > > 1x 1403 Printer > > *System 370/125* > > 1x 370/125 CPU – Unknown condition > > 1x 3504 Punched card reader (incomplete) > > *Miscellaneous* > > 1x 029 Card Punch > > 1x 5471 System Console > > Assorted other spares and unknown/incomplete components > > Around 12 full boxes of brand new IBM punched cards > > --- > > In an ideal world we would like to see everything go together, but we > understand that this is an enormous amount of kit and that might not be > possible. We are not willing to split up individual systems, but we are > willing to split things by the groupings above. For instance if there was > interest in only the red system due to its complete set of peripherals, we > would be willing to negotiate on that basis. > > It is extremely rare that systems such as this become available, and these > are two of only a handful of privately held IBM 360’s in the world. > > If you have an idea or a proposal, please email me directly at this > address. Please do NOT email me to suggest I contact X museum unless you > are a representative of that museum or hold a direct relationship with them > and know they are interested. > > We are genuinely sad that we’ve been unable to work on this project and > take it where we wanted it to go. We set out with strong intentions, but > alas, as is often the case life took over and we were unable to push > forward in the way we wanted to. We hope that someone comes along who will > be able to keep the systems safe for future generations. > > Kind Regards, > > Adam Bradley
