[cctalk] Re: Wanted: Apple III 5MB Profile HD driver file
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 08:44 Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > > > > On 02/21/2023 10:48 PM CST Eric Smith via cctalk > wrote: > > > > > Profile trivia: > > > > The firmware _inside_ the Profile is strange in that it doesn't actually > > KNOW the size of the Profile it's installed into. At power up, when the > > drive reads the home block, the drive size is stored there. That's done > > when the drive is formatted. There is different formatter firmware for > 5MB > > and 10MB drives. > > I think that was rather common with early SASI/SCSI controller boards that > were separate from the drive. > That was done because the controller manufacturer didn't make the drives. A system integrator or even the end user was expected to use the controller with some arbitrarily selected drive. The Apple Profile was an entire preconfigured subsystem in a box. Apple bought the drive mechanism (only, no electronics, not even the normal drive electronics), built the controller, packaged it, and nothing was user-upgradeable. It wasn't even considered dealer-upgradeable. The controller and drive mechanism were permanently associated. If the drive mechanism failed, service replaced it with an identical mechanism. The Profile controller could deal with drives with a varying number of cylinders, hence the existence of both 5MB and 10MB models, but was not designed to support more heads like a general-purpose SASI bridge.
[cctalk] Re: Wanted: Apple III 5MB Profile HD driver file
> On 02/21/2023 10:48 PM CST Eric Smith via cctalk > wrote: > > Profile trivia: > > The firmware _inside_ the Profile is strange in that it doesn't actually > KNOW the size of the Profile it's installed into. At power up, when the > drive reads the home block, the drive size is stored there. That's done > when the drive is formatted. There is different formatter firmware for 5MB > and 10MB drives. I think that was rather common with early SASI/SCSI controller boards that were separate from the drive. My Ampro Little Board Plus docs talk about certain controllers that saved the drive parameters in a reserved sector and some that did not. I believe it couldn't boot from ones that did not. My guess would be that Apple used separate controller boards and drives in the Profile. But that's simply a guess. Will
[cctalk] Re: Wanted: Apple III 5MB Profile HD driver file
On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 11:28 AM David Schmidt via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Generally, a ProFile driver that is otherwise unspecified will be 5MB > (i.e. https://apple3.org/iiisoftware.html#drivers ). There is a > different card (ROM?) as you found out that will matter for 5 vs. 10MB > variants and driver files. > For the Apple ///, there isn't a different Profile interface card, and there's no firmware on the card. It's all a matter of what SOS driver is used. I thought the newer SOS driver supported both 5MB and 10MB drives, but perhaps I'm mistaken. The drivers generally come from the Apple /// System Utilities disk and System Utilities Data disks. For the Apple II, there's an interface card that is used for either the Profile 5MB or 10MB, but the early firmware 341-0271A, only knows about the 5MB Profile, and also doesn't work with interrupts, so it's not suitable for the Apple IIgs. The same card, but with 341-0299B firmware, supports both 5MB and 10MB Profiles and works on the Apple II, II+, IIe, and IIgs. There are a bunch of places on the internet that claim that you have to use 341-0271A firmware on the Apple II card if you have a 5MB Profile, but that is flat out wrong. The 341-0299B firmware should be used with both 5MB and 10MB Profiles. It will also work with third-party drives that support Profile protocol but may have different sizes, potentially up to 32MB. Profile trivia: The firmware _inside_ the Profile is strange in that it doesn't actually KNOW the size of the Profile it's installed into. At power up, when the drive reads the home block, the drive size is stored there. That's done when the drive is formatted. There is different formatter firmware for 5MB and 10MB drives. The Apple II Profile interface firmware contains a lot of dead code. Some of it looks vaguely like reasonable code, but some of it is clearly junk.
[cctalk] Re: Wanted: Apple III 5MB Profile HD driver file
Generally, a ProFile driver that is otherwise unspecified will be 5MB (i.e. https://apple3.org/iiisoftware.html#drivers ). There is a different card (ROM?) as you found out that will matter for 5 vs. 10MB variants and driver files. Good luck keeping that jet engine spooled up! - David
[cctalk] Re: Wanted: Apple III 5MB Profile HD driver file
Gotcha. I have a pretty large set of III docs if you need anything. I was planning to put online, it's all scanned, etc. just have not gotten to it yet :-( BIll On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 12:08 AM Steven Stengel via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Thanks Bill, > I actually got it working. All of the driver floppy disks had 10MB written > in them in pen, but they worked ok with the 5MB Profile. I also had to try > a different I/O card to get it working. > Steve. > > > On Feb 15, 2023, at 5:18 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > I have a few profile hardware driver/diagnostics disks but none specify > the > size of the drive on the disk, What version do you have? > Bill Degnan > > On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 2:39 PM steven stengel via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > The title says it all - the Apple III has an external hard drive called > > the Profile, but a driver has to be installed on the boot floppy - it > won’t > > boot from the HD. There were also 10MB Profiles, with a different driver > > file I’m guessing. > > > > I have the driver file for the 10MB, but it doesn't seem to work with my > > 5MB drive. Please help if you can. > > Thanks- > > Steve. > > > >
[cctalk] Re: Wanted: Apple III 5MB Profile HD driver file
Thanks Bill, I actually got it working. All of the driver floppy disks had 10MB written in them in pen, but they worked ok with the 5MB Profile. I also had to try a different I/O card to get it working. Steve. On Feb 15, 2023, at 5:18 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: I have a few profile hardware driver/diagnostics disks but none specify the size of the drive on the disk, What version do you have? Bill Degnan On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 2:39 PM steven stengel via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > The title says it all - the Apple III has an external hard drive called > the Profile, but a driver has to be installed on the boot floppy - it won’t > boot from the HD. There were also 10MB Profiles, with a different driver > file I’m guessing. > > I have the driver file for the 10MB, but it doesn't seem to work with my > 5MB drive. Please help if you can. > Thanks- > Steve. >
[cctalk] Re: Wanted: Apple III 5MB Profile HD driver file
I have a few profile hardware driver/diagnostics disks but none specify the size of the drive on the disk, What version do you have? Bill Degnan On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 2:39 PM steven stengel via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > The title says it all - the Apple III has an external hard drive called > the Profile, but a driver has to be installed on the boot floppy - it won’t > boot from the HD. There were also 10MB Profiles, with a different driver > file I’m guessing. > > I have the driver file for the 10MB, but it doesn't seem to work with my > 5MB drive. Please help if you can. > Thanks- > Steve. >
